Can you strip Generals of their titles?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi guys,
I'm sorry to be an irritating pest, again, yet I have just made a terrible mistake in my English campaign, as I knew I would, I am an idiot after all! I accidently gave the title of "The Earl of Wessex" to a six loyalty general who didn't really need it - I meant to give it to a one loyalty general, with five stars, to stop him from wanting my king's blood - I, unfortuantely, lacked spies to execute for treason or assasins to kill him with. So, to save me from civil war may I ask you expert veterans, is it possible to stip a general of his titles and give them to somebody else? Thanks very much in advance guys, cheers!

[Galagros]

Sure can. Drop an emissary on the general whose titles you want to strip. :2thumbsup:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Wow, that was fast! Thanks very much :bow:

[Caerfanan]

This rises another question: when you strip a general of his title, will he go back to his old stats, or will he loose a bit mor of loyalty?

[Galagros]

I'm not sure how often it happens, but the general can develop bad traits, I believe.

[Andres]

Hi guys,
I'm sorry to be an irritating pest, again, yet I have just made a terrible mistake in my English campaign, as I knew I would, I am an idiot after all! I accidently gave the title of "The Earl of Wessex" to a six loyalty general who didn't really need it - I meant to give it to a one loyalty general, with five stars, to stop him from wanting my king's blood - I, unfortuantely, lacked spies to execute for treason or assasins to kill him with. So, to save me from civil war may I ask you expert veterans, is it possible to stip a general of his titles and give them to somebody else? Thanks very much in advance guys, cheers!

Off course, if you want to get rid of that particular general, you also might consider to send him on a suicide mission, let the enemy kill him in an unfair battle... :devil:

[Peasant Phill]

If you strip a general of his title(s) he will lose loyalty. So the general will be less loyal than before he got the title(s).

I always give titles in function of economy (acumen and those skulls) as I don't steamroll. I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king. But I see why you would want touse your 5 star general as a leader of an army. I'm not that sure but I think Wessex only gives 1 shield of loyalty so I don't know if you can trust a 2 shield general that much more.

[macsen rufus]

Unless you really want to keep your original "false" Earl of Wessex around for some other reason (like maybe he's a v7 teched up royal knight or something), you can always disband the unit. Quick easy and effective - you don't have to wait til next year as you do when you set an emissary on to him....

[Veho Nex]

If you strip a general of his title(s) he will lose loyalty. So the general will be less loyal than before he got the title(s).

I always give titles in function of economy (acumen and those skulls) as I don't steamroll. I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king. But I see why you would want touse your 5 star general as a leader of an army. I'm not that sure but I think Wessex only gives 1 shield of loyalty so I don't know if you can trust a 2 shield general that much more.


5 star bah!! the only commander of my army need to be 7+ star

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king.Would keeping him next to a prince help as well as him being under the leadership of the king? Unfortunately, my King is at home in London, yet the General is in the South of France with a Prince in the neighbouring province. Would that keep him loyal? Thanks!

[caravel]

Assigning and stripping of titles by an emissary does decrease loyalty to a lower value than it was before the title was betowed.

This can be exploited when you're orchestrating a civil war to get rid of a particularly bad royal line. You can repeatedly assign and remove a title from very good general to reduce his loyalty to make sure he's on the rebel side when the civil war erupts.

Keeping a general stacked with a faction heir makes no difference to his loyalty. Stacking him with the faction leader will slowly increase his loyalty over time and prevent him from leading a civil war.

[Ciaran]

Would keeping him next to a prince help as well as him being under the leadership of the king? Unfortunately, my King is at home in London, yet the General is in the South of France with a Prince in the neighbouring province. Would that keep him loyal? Thanks!

No, the loyalty of a stack is always that of the leader (rightclick of the stack and you´re shown the leader´s stats), that´s why you´ll want loyal men in command. Having a maximum-loyalty, ten-star general in a province next to a full stack led by a zero-loyalty commander will not prevent the stack in question from rebelling!
It also doesn´t matter if all units but the leader have a maximum loyalty, it´s the leader that matters.

[Caerfanan]

Off course, if you want to get rid of that particular general, you also might consider to send him on a suicide mission, let the enemy kill him in an unfair battle... :devil:
Well, this is definitely another way! But it will cost you one defeat in battle... You are a cruel king ideed, Andres! :yes:

[Caerfanan]

If you strip a general of his title(s) he will lose loyalty. So the general will be less loyal than before he got the title(s).

I always give titles in function of economy (acumen and those skulls) as I don't steamroll. I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king. But I see why you would want touse your 5 star general as a leader of an army. I'm not that sure but I think Wessex only gives 1 shield of loyalty so I don't know if you can trust a 2 shield general that much more.
Actually used to pay attention only to acumen and dread as well. But I finally did pay attention to loyalty as well. I don't use the titles to raise a good general's loyalty. Say if I have à 3 loyalty pretty good unit leader, I might consider give a title. But I never give a province to someone under 4 acumen, except if he has 3+ in dread, and the province is a "hard on loyalty" one.

[Digital]

For your information, just have an aggressive foreign policy and invade your enemies and gain influence. When you have 9 influence, everybody under you will be fully loyal, including previously disloyal generals.

[Voivode of Romania]

I'm playing with the Byzantines. Emperor Alexius II is the leader. He has full influence, so I can't assign lesser titles (only gives loyalty) because that would be a waste.

Even generals that I pay to join my side have full, or almost full the first year they join.

[EatYerGreens]

No province title is ever 'a waste', in my opinion.

A province without a governor has even less income than if you gave the title to a general with zero feathers! (Believe it or not).

The Byz tend to make money by the bucket-load, so you can probably carry on as you are doing, in that campaign, and not worry about the finances.

Some other factions are forever struggling for decent income and you'd have a really hard time if you maintained this policy.

:2cents:


P.S. You can actually have the province info parchment open on the screen at the moment you drop the title onto the general, so it is possible to see the change in income as it happens. You may even be able to spot a slight change in the happiness rating at the same time.

[caravel]

I have a certain system for assigning titles. I tend to first look at the provincial loyalty (happiness) factor, and will search through my stacks for a very high dread general - his acumen will be of lesser importance - if I'm dealing with a rebellious province quite a distance away from my faction's epicentre and faction leader. The secondary consideration will be the religious factor. I will check the province's religion, and if the percentage of my own faction's religion is very low in that province (i.e. they are not in the majority) I will assign a general who also has very low piety, to avoid upsetting the locals. If the province in question is the same religion as my faction or has a percentage of around 60% or more of my faction's religion I will assign a medium to high piety, high dread general. I will then transfer a high valour spy, some of my priests and a low cost garrison into the province and start building a brothel, church/mosque, town watch, watch towers, (and border fort - though I don't build them). Once the province has been converted and pacified I will strip the title from the governor and give it to someone more suitable. He will then be sent to govern another troublesome province - thus not really affecting his loyalty too much. It helps to have a few generals like that at hand for such purposes.

:bow:

[Deus ret.]

Doesn't the zeal level also have a say in there? I found high dread generals to be pretty useless as governors of 99% Christian, 99% zeal province. Instead, high (i.e. higher than 7) piety does the job in those cases.

Besides, is it somehow possible to influence the stats regular generals start out with? I never see anyone with a dread rating higher than 3, except for some heroes.

[caravel]

Doesn't the zeal level also have a say in there? I found high dread generals to be pretty useless as governors of 99% Christian, 99% zeal province. Instead, high (i.e. higher than 7) piety does the job in those cases.
That may be the case. But you can have a 99% Christian Portugal, installing a high dread governor would help in increasing happiness there, but if he is also low piety that could counter it somewhat.

Besides, is it somehow possible to influence the stats regular generals start out with? I never see anyone with a dread rating higher than 3, except for some heroes.
A strong faction with a strong faction leader tends to produce better generals, also higher class elite units tend to be better generals.

[Yoyoma1910]

Ways to gain dread: Scare people.

Put your General as Governor of a provence you allow to rebel regularly, and execute the rebels you capture. He'll develope some wonderful vices. (If you have no governor assigned, it tends to go to your king).

When you capture enemies, execute them during battle. You don't have to wait till the end when you havetaken that highly valuable king or prince hostage, you can get BUTCHER from just a few bodies.


Also, loyalty is affected by many things. For instance Princesses. Alot of people use their daughters to keep generals loyal after stripping their titles. As well, a good building policy gives loyalty virtues.



I don't believe one's religious level affects zeal, only the happiness of the provence. There are virtues, such as zealot, true zealot, etc. that increase the zeal level. As well, inquisitors raise zeal a percent or so each time they pass through the provence. France and Italy are typically the high zeal factions in the game as well, due to region and events in the game.

As far as loyalty goes, it helps to win battles as well. And if a king is weak, the leadership doesn't like him, and his brother is stronger, you may want to send your king to his death. This might raise the loyalty of your Generalship.

Ya Dig.:scastle3:

[Deus ret.]

When you capture enemies, execute them during battle. You don't have to wait till the end when you havetaken that highly valuable king or prince hostage, you can get BUTCHER from just a few bodies.

? IIRC you get the first of the 'butcher' line of traits upon killing more than 1,000 prisoners in combat (not necessarily at once). Everything below that number will result in the not so good 'scant mercy' line of traits; not so good because it lowers morale in the course of time.

[Yoyoma1910]

Ah yes. My error.

here's a list of V&V and how to possibly achieve them to raise your gen's stats:

V&V (http://www.mithyk.com/councilchambers/vnv.htm)

[Caerfanan]

For your information, just have an aggressive foreign policy and invade your enemies and gain influence. When you have 9 influence, everybody under you will be fully loyal, including previously disloyal generals.
Yes. Of course. I was speaking of those moments when the enemy's armies are dangerous and you can loose a few province! :yes:

[Caerfanan]

Doesn't the zeal level also have a say in there? I found high dread generals to be pretty useless as governors of 99% Christian, 99% zeal province. Instead, high (i.e. higher than 7) piety does the job in those cases.

Besides, is it somehow possible to influence the stats regular generals start out with? I never see anyone with a dread rating higher than 3, except for some heroes.
I haven't run any tests on it but I've seen high dred/low piety generals have almost no effect on loyalty on certain provinces, and low-dread/decent to high piety having a good effect. Zeal and dread are definitely two parameters of the loyalty's calculation.

EDIT: Ah, in Viking campaigns, the Northumbrian foresters tend to have 3 to 5 dread!!! :beam:

[caravel]

I was almost sure that zeal had no bearing on a province's happiness. :shrug:

[Caerfanan]

I was almost sure that zeal had no bearing on a province's happiness. :shrug:
Well I've read someplace that it had an influence, and I had surprises while giving a province to a 2 dread general to see the happines not move at all... I'll try to catch one (and the boats...)

[The Unknown Guy]

Playing as Byzantium I´ve never had any problems regarding zeal. Most of my generals and governors have 0 piety, the Emperor has usually a lip-service religiousness of 2 or so, but the people hover around 0%-10% loyalty anyway, so it doesn´t matter. In fact, I roleplay to make a point of it and avoid using priests as far as possible (I do build churches/cathedral, for military and financial reasons. I reason this out as being symbols of "the long arm of the Emperor", with suspiciously pro-goverment preachings)

I once started a "godless" Italian campaign, in which I fully intended to lash out at the Papal states as soon as I got strong enough, and to hell with excommunication (I intended to make a POINT of being excommed), but while militarily and economically I was successful, I lost my heir in a fluke and my elder Doge beated out a crusade with minimal casualties, only to die the next year of an illness (What the... he was killing Germans minutes ago and now he´s ill and he dies?!?!)

[Deus ret.]

I was almost sure that zeal had no bearing on a province's happiness. :shrug:
I doesn't have. Directly, that is; a high-zeal province needs to be governed by a high-piety general. I read once that the threshold was at 50% zeal: below, dread-heavy governors work better, above, piety does the job. Of course it's a gradual change, but the threshold separates the ranges where one of the two skills is more effective.

Since I get high-piety generals all the time when I'm playing Catholics for some reason (the reason may be that I build many religious buildings which affect my emperor who in turn affects fresh generals...?), I find that maintaing loyalty is much easier than in provinces with extremely low piety - as stated earlier, my generals only seldomly have more than 3 dread. A nice side-effect is that occupying my territory as a pagan or Muslim becomes decidedly more difficult for the invader....then again, central Europe rarely suffers from these incursion.

I'm not entirely sure about the workings of zeal, too. E.g. I still haven't found out how to govern best a religiously mixed province with 70% Christian, 30% pagan and 45% zeal level....probably I ought to stick to Caravel's approach and just assign the title to some high-dread guy.


EDIT: Ah, in Viking campaigns, the Northumbrian foresters tend to have 3 to 5 dread!!!
Really? Hmmm the Northumbrian king starts out with an astonishingly high dread rating, so that might have an influence....don'T know about his heirs, though. I never played a Northumbrian campaign for longer than 5 turns.


Playing as Byzantium I´ve never had any problems regarding zeal.
That's natural, the only high-zeal area in the game is Catholic Europe, and it too is no longer after 1349. The main effect zeal seems to have besides influencing loyalty seems to be determining the tendency of a Crusade to gain or to lose men while passing/staying in the province.
Not entirely historically correct, one might add - Salah ad-din greatly roused Muslim religious sentiment and united the Saracens on no other than religious grounds in order to repel the Crusaders, but since I've never ever used a Jihad myself, does anyone have a hint how they work? Do they lose men as rapidly as they should, given the extremely low zeal rating of Muslim provinces?

[Martok]

I have noticed that generals with a high piety rating do sometimes seem to have trouble when they govern provinces of opposing religions, particularly if that province has high zeal. However, I've not noticed this happening on a consistent basis, so I remain unconvinced that there's any real connection.

Regardless, my primary criteria for choosing governors (at least as far as keeping provinces in line remains Dread. It's generally a far more effective deterrent to rebellion than Piety (although both is always desired!). :yes:


Not entirely historically correct, one might add - Salah ad-din greatly roused Muslim religious sentiment and united the Saracens on no other than religious grounds in order to repel the Crusaders, but since I've never ever used a Jihad myself, does anyone have a hint how they work? Do they lose men as rapidly as they should, given the extremely low zeal rating of Muslim provinces?
Jihads can (and do) lose troops as they pass through low-zeal provinces, but I can't vouch as to whether they lose men as quickly as Crusades do. However, since my Jihads usually don't have as far to go -- I'm usually retaking land already touching my borders, as opposed to a province on the other side of the map -- the number of men who desert is generally far less than those who leave a Crusade. That said, I still try as much as possible to have Imams preaching in all the provinces along which my Jihad armies will be marching. ~;)

[EatYerGreens]

The description on the general's parchment basically hints that the piety rating influences how likely the local population are to give him their support, should it be needed.

The only circumstances where I can see this being relevant are when the province is invaded by a faction of a different culture, such that the type of rebellion triggered is going to be a religious revolt.

Of course, loss of the territory instantly strips him of his governor title, so the only way he can continue to influence the locals is by virtue of him being beseiged in the castle *and*, despite possibly having lost a command star in the battle leading up to this situation, still being the designated stack leader.

If he escaped/retreated to the neighbouring province then his piety rating will count for nothing (I think).


As for the the zeal rating itself, the next time I play a Muslim faction, I'll try and pay more attention to this in Christian provinces that I'm about to invade. I want to see if a province switches from, say, 76% Christian zeal, to 15% Muslim zeal, after the siege is over and it's officially mine.

In other words, whether or not the zeal rating pertains to the religion of the province's owner, or if it relates *only* to Christian zeal, no matter who own it. The latter might explain those low zeal scores in Muslim and Orthodox-held territories (although other valid explanations can't be dismissed, such as a historically accurate portrayal of low religious fervour in those regions).

Of course, zeal is completely irrelevant to the Byz and other Orthodox factions, since they don't have a Crusade/Jihad equivalent, or Inquisitions.

However, if you are the Byz and, like the real-life emperor, expect the Christian factions to help you against the Eggies and Turks, then you'll just have to be tolerant of travelling Catholic religious agents in your lands, in the hope that the desertion rate from Crusades is minimised.

More often than not, when I'm playing Catholic and the AI is in charge of the Byz, it always seems to fight with the crusaders! :wall:

[caravel]

In other words, whether or not the zeal rating pertains to the religion of the province's owner, or if it relates *only* to Christian zeal, no matter who own it. The latter might explain those low zeal scores in Muslim and Orthodox-held territories (although other valid explanations can't be dismissed, such as a historically accurate portrayal of low religious fervour in those regions).
I'm not sure about this. Though you would have to convert the province to your religion before you could make use of any zeal there anyway. Maybe zeal is zeal, and just transfers itself to whichever is the majority religion in the province. :shrug:

Of course, zeal is completely irrelevant to the Byz and other Orthodox factions, since they don't have a Crusade/Jihad equivalent, or Inquisitions.
They can have zeal in their provinces, but have no agents with which to increase it. The Catholics have the Inquisitors and the Muslims the Imams to do this. Orthodox Priests and Bishops don't increase zeal. As the orthodox have no crusades or Jihads it's pretty pointless anyway.

[The Unknown Guy]

However, if you are the Byz and, like the real-life emperor, expect the Christian factions to help you against the Eggies and Turks, then you'll just have to be tolerant of travelling Catholic religious agents in your lands, in the hope that the desertion rate from Crusades is minimised.

Catholic agents in your lands don´t increase zeal. They just increase catholicism. Which you don´t want, since you hold a different religion. I haven´t had it come to the point of religious revolts, but still, it might be the first step of an invasion. So in general I don´t like it if foerign priests/imams/whatever start hovering around my provinces. I like it EVEN LESS if I have conquered a catholic province, and someone sends an inquisitor, as they CAN arrange inquisitions among their own flock, decreasing your income and increasing unrest. I keep assasins handy for the presence of both.

A short tutorial on Crusade use for Byzantine players
As far as western crusades go for Byz, you have to be careful, in order to have them hit the intended target. Remember that when you allow a crusade to pass through your lands, this also allows it to take your ship routes. So if it´s en route to Palestine and have a ship in Egypt when it hits your land, it will jump straight off without passing through the turkish provinces, which are the ones you likely want weakened.
The trick is keeping an eye on incoming crusaders and adjust trade routes so that when they hit your lands they have to take the long walk to Jerusalem. It´s good that they have numbers, but you don´t want them to be too numerous, in case you end up fighting them (hint: if the crusaders are staying in your province, even if you´re nominally "allied" in the starting battle force display, if you´re attacked they´ll turn on you. I lost Bulgaria that way once. If you´re pressed into that and losing that battle means an endgame or a very hard point to pull out from, you can hit Autorresolve, but it´s cheap, imho. Just make sure that the crusaders are guarded by a strong Byzantine force in places you might be attacked. The historical Byzantines did, for the record)
The idea is that they take as little shortcuts as possible, so that they brownbeat every Turkish garrison in their way, thus paving your way to conquering Anatolia (A Trebizond/Anatolia border is perfect for the East until you´re ready for further expansion&keeping a three or four way border defense).

An oddity I´ve noticed: the MONGOLS will allow crusades to parade through their lands pretty much every single time. So they won´t be of any help against the mongol invasion. Just against the turks and the Egyptians.

Sidenote about the Egyptians: if they get strong cutting into their lands can be annoying due to desert landscape, and if they should, say, take the turkish war to Anatolia, it will mean that they will be able to harass you with Jihads. Exploit it to your benefit if it happens by falling back to a strong position and massacring every single one. Hopefully their empire will fall into civil war.

This same strategy applies for the odd crusade against Constantinople which may or may not be launched. Beat it down and wait until they collapse. Then buy yourself some foerign rebel lands.

[EatYerGreens]

In other words, whether or not the zeal rating pertains to the religion of the province's owner, or if it relates *only* to Christian zeal, no matter who own it. The latter might explain those low zeal scores in Muslim and Orthodox-held territories (although other valid explanations can't be dismissed, such as a historically accurate portrayal of low religious fervour in those regions).

I'm not sure about this. Though you would have to convert the province to your religion before you could make use of any zeal there anyway. Maybe zeal is zeal, and just transfers itself to whichever is the majority religion in the province.


I was less than clear: I meant that, when playing as a Muslim or Orthodox faction, you rarely see high Muslim\Ortho zeal in the provinces you own. I find that long-distance Jihads do have an appreciable desertion rate, just from passing through the lands I hold, for instance.

So I'm assuming that the zeal rating applies to the culture of the province-owner, so its *meaning* can change and, thus, you should see an abrubt drop/gain between pre- and post-conquest of a province which originally belonged to some other culture. (Is this making sense?)

The simplest way of putting it is

IF Province is Muslim-owned THEN zeal="Muslim zeal"
IF Province is Catholic-owned THEN zeal="Catholic zeal"
IF Province is Orthodox-owned THEN zeal="Orthodox zeal" (irrelevant)

Interestingly, the Muslim factions have no agents capable of increasing "Muslim zeal". The Alim/Imam only increase faith percentage.

It would be interesting to mod a zeal-boost factor to the Jihad marker, to see what that would do. :inquisitive:






Of course, zeal is completely irrelevant to the Byz and other Orthodox factions, since they don't have a Crusade/Jihad equivalent, or Inquisitions.


They can have zeal in their provinces, but have no agents with which to increase it. The Catholics have the Inquisitors and the Muslims the Imams to do this. Orthodox Priests and Bishops don't increase zeal. As the orthodox have no crusades or Jihads it's pretty pointless anyway.

Irrelevant; pointless. That IS what I said, isn't it? :laugh4:

[EatYerGreens]

Remember that when you allow a crusade to pass through your lands, this also allows it to take your ship routes. So if it´s en route to Palestine and have a ship in Egypt when it hits your land, it will jump straight off without passing through the turkish provinces, which are the ones you likely want weakened.
The trick is keeping an eye on incoming crusaders and adjust trade routes so that when they hit your lands they have to take the long walk to Jerusalem.

Nice write-up.

By "ship in Egypt" (sic) I suppose you meant "ship route TO Egypt"?

I've never had much success in seeing other factions make use of my ship routes, so I've always wondered whether a formal alliance arrangement was required. Maybe it was just that they didn't feel like invading anywhere, at the time?

I take it that an agreement to permit passage of a Crusade is a special case where a formal alliance is not required for the ship lanes to become a legitimate move, based on your observation.

We could really do with a separate thread about factions using other faction's shipping... but there probably already is one, way down in the depths of the forum.

[Deus ret.]

thus, you should see an abrubt drop/gain between pre- and post-conquest of a province which originally belonged to some other culture. (Is this making sense?)

It is, but what you described is not the case as far as I can tell. In my HRE campaign (the one with the high-piety-guys I described above) I conquered Palestine by a crusade and happened to pay close attention to the zeal level there in order to launch another crusade from there (I would have had to remove the chapter house in Burgundy as it's a unique building in MedMod but oh, well...). Sadly, the zeal level was at 0% upon conquest and didn't rise a notch by itself. It was only when I had constructed a church and a monastery (both give zeal bonuses, in MedMod at least), and assigned a governor with the 'secret fanatic' trait, that I was able to attain around 50% zeal - tendency dropping thanks to low zeal in the surrounding provinces, although those were in turn gradually christianized thanks to all the religious building stuff in Palestine :beam:

[The Unknown Guy]

I had a fleet covering all my shores, and trade routes into the Egytian coast. A crusade arrived at... Serbia, I think. From the British. I granted them pasage and on the next turn they jumped into Palestine. Another time, another crusade did the great leap from the Balkans into Palestine, and was defeated, only to be kicked BACK to the Balkans.

I´ve seen it even as playing as the receiving end. I had conquered Spain as the almohads, and was allied with the Italians, or the French, don´t remember which, whom had holdings north of the Pyrenees. My ally was at war with the Germans, but they granted access to their crusade nonetheless. I defeated it at the Pyrenees, and it moved back to France, only to LEAP into Castile using my ally´s fleet, bypassing my Super-Garrisons. And in the next turn my ally jumped into the province, defeated the besieging crusades, and saved my ass.

[Caerfanan]

Really? Hmmm the Northumbrian king starts out with an astonishingly high dread rating, so that might have an influence....don'T know about his heirs, though. I never played a Northumbrian campaign for longer than 5 turns.
Well I started one a few days ago and was really surprised, I did'nt remember. I had some 4 acumen/5 dread generals. Who said Cumbri was rebellious (smiling madly)? Mmmm (stroking his axe)? :laugh4:

But you are right, it might be a "high dread king" effect. We know that the princes tend to be like their fathers... Could be the same for generals.

[Deus ret.]

What, 5 dread generals on a regular basis?? I probalby should play a VI campaign again and see what I get ....instead of my standard 8-piety, 0-3 dread generals....

[Caerfanan]

What, 5 dread generals on a regular basis?? I probalby should play a VI campaign again and see what I get ....instead of my standard 8-piety, 0-3 dread generals....
Well, I can say that the 3-5 dread is common for the foresters at the beginning of a Northumbrian campaign in VI (on out ouf 3 maybe has a really high dread). The other units seemed to have less dread. I'll have a peak tonight on my campaign and check this. I'll tell you tomorrow! :beam:

[Martok]

The simplest way of putting it is

IF Province is Muslim-owned THEN zeal="Muslim zeal"
IF Province is Catholic-owned THEN zeal="Catholic zeal"
IF Province is Orthodox-owned THEN zeal="Orthodox zeal" (irrelevant)
That's always been how I've interpreted it. As everyone else has pointed out, however, provinces with mixed religious populations muddy up the issue considerably. If you're playing a Muslim faction and you own a province that's 60% Catholic and 40% Muslim, does its zeal go to you since you control the province, or does the zeal go towards your Catholic subjects in that province (since they're the majority)? I have yet to find a satisfactory answer to this question. :shrug:


Interestingly, the Muslim factions have no agents capable of increasing "Muslim zeal". The Alim/Imam only increase faith percentage.
Last I knew, Imams increase zeal as well the percentage of the Faithful. (Or am I going senile already?) :inquisitive:

[caravel]

Last I knew, Imams increase zeal as well the percentage of the Faithful. (Or am I going senile already?) :inquisitive:
Well I had posted this earlier in this thread:

They can have zeal in their provinces, but have no agents with which to increase it. The Catholics have the Inquisitors and the Muslims the Imams to do this. Orthodox Priests and Bishops don't increase zeal. As the orthodox have no crusades or Jihads it's pretty pointless anyway.
This is definitely the case. It can be confirmed by checking the unit prod file.

:bow:

[Caerfanan]

Well, I can say that the 3-5 dread is common for the foresters at the beginning of a Northumbrian campaign in VI (on out ouf 3 maybe has a really high dread). The other units seemed to have less dread. I'll have a peak tonight on my campaign and check this. I'll tell you tomorrow! :beam:
OK, peaking right now!!

The year is 816, and I have 1 king, 2 princes grown up and 38 units: 23/38 units have a leader with 3+ dread, and not only among the foresters,I've got a peasant leader with 6 dread. Outch.... I must've been very lucky, I can count 7 unit leaders with 4+ in acumen AND dread at the same time (well, three of them have titles which might have added to dread or acumen).

Well, they don't have the best place to start, but this got them angry.

The kings apparently starts with 9 dread and the "killer" trait. :whip:

[Martok]

@Caravel: What's embarrassing is I saw you post that about the Imams, but I still managed to forget that only a minute later when I posted. Sheesh; I really *am* going senile here.... ~:rolleyes:


This is definitely the case. It can be confirmed by checking the unit prod file.

:bow:
Well if I had a computer that worked, I could do that, sure. ~;p

(Only a couple more weeks! :sweatdrop: )

[Caerfanan]

Well if I had a computer that worked, I could do that, sure. ~;p

(Only a couple more weeks! :sweatdrop: )
Augh... Still without TW-friendly computer? I feel the pain... :no:

[EatYerGreens]

It is, but what you described is not the case as far as I can tell.
(snip)
Sadly, the zeal level was at 0% upon conquest and didn't rise a notch by itself.

Ahh, but can you recall what the zeal rating was saying in the year your crusade marker arrived?

The 'switchover' I was alluding to should occur in the year in which you win the battle (the duration of the siege merely fudges the issue).



And in the next turn my ally jumped into the province, defeated the besieging crusades, and saved my ass.

This part leaves a big question mark, for me but, again, probably best left to another thread.

Did your ally end up owning this province on account of having the largest number of troops?
Did the change of ownership from the crusader faction to your ally prevent the alliance breaking down?
How do you get your troops out of the castle and out of the province without declaring war on your ally - you're obliged to drop them somewhere on the province to signify leaving the castle, before you can move them to the province next-door and that drop declares war, no?
Who got the ransom money for the captured crusaders?


@ Caravel

Thanks for pointing out the zeal factor on the Imams. I should have seen this for myself, I've browsed the file enough times. It's a pity that the Catholic factions can have multiple monasteries, with which to raise Inquisitors but the Grand Mosque is unique (unless modded). I think you 'de-uniqued' it for Pocket Mod, didn't you?

[Martok]

@Caerfanan: Yup. I've been suffering Total War withdrawl for over a month now. At least I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now, though. :yes:


@ Caravel

Thanks for pointing out the zeal factor on the Imams. I should have seen this for myself, I've browsed the file enough times. It's a pity that the Catholic factions can have multiple monasteries, with which to raise Inquisitors but the Grand Mosque is unique (unless modded). I think you 'de-uniqued' it for Pocket Mod, didn't you?
Yes, he did. I also believe he made them more expensive to discourage a player from spamming them, but my memory's a little fuzzy on that part.

[caravel]

The Grande Mosque is not unique in the Pocket Mod and the Military Academy no longer depends on it, instead it simply depends on the Fortress. I haven't changed the cost or build time as it takes an absolute age to build the things anyway. I did consider increasing the build time a little further but decided against. It is nice to be able to construct GMs in key provinces such as Syria and Constantinople. Jihads, which cost more to build and take longer, also depend on the GM in the pocket mod, the Ribat is instead used for raising "Jihadist" troops such as the Futtuwa, Nizari Fedayeen, and Nizari Foot Soldiers. I had intended to change it to the prerequisite for Ghazis also but never got round to that.

:bow: