Out of character thread IV

[Warluster]

Okay, I have uploaded the save file in .zip format!

[econ21]

I'm just unsure as to how Ulrich can be knighted now. He is the one who is to take Metz, by the order of the Kasier. However, as he is not a knight yet, he will have to fight under another's command. It is ironic, considering he's a proven commander.

I don't have access to M2TW, so I can't check saves. If Ulrich fought at Dijon in the autoresolved battle, then Warluster could knight him. If not the idea of seeking another fight to earn his spurs is a good one.

I think it would add character if Ulrich heads the army that takes Metz, but to be honest Henry was just thinking in terms of Swabia, not Ulrich, retaking it. Ulrich doing it personally would just be doing it with style. :cool:

[Ituralde]

Currently Jobst is sitting in Dijon and Ulrich is sitting in Staufen. The French at Metz pretty much half them, if Ulrich doesn't want to take the long route through Bern to reach Dijon. Ulrich was not present in the autocalced defense of Dijon, but I'll try to get both of them involved in a battle in or around Metz! :2thumbsup:

[Warluster]

Why doesn't Jobst take Ulrich, and kill the French Prince's army (which is lurkign nearby) and kill their Prince, and you can kill two birds with one stone?

[Warluster]

I just finished the battle Ituralde, and I won (easily) and I shall post up the Battle Report now and upload the save file (in .zip format)

And also, Ignoramus, could you please clear up your PM Box, as its full and I am trying to send a PM to you.

[Ituralde]

Yeah, I'll try to do something in that direction. The problem is that Dijon will riot without Jobst AND a huge army present, which does not make things easier.

[Jalf]

Hmm, sorry, but I think I'm going to have to bail out. Too little free time (and too many games to play ;))

Still going to check in here from time to time (it all makes for interesting reading), but it's probably a bad idea to rely on me being able to actively participate.

Better give my avatar to some deserving soul, who won't mind playing a pious and rather overlooked youngish knight who seem destined to never spend more than a week in his homeland. :D

[econ21]

Sorry to hear you have to drop out, Jalf, but I understand.

Looking at the table in the first post of the Chancellor and Governor's reports, it seems Ichigo - as the only Franconian without an avatar - is the natural person to take over von Mahren. If Ichigo posts in this thread to confirm he is willing to take that avatar, we can make that switch.

[Ituralde]

This is in response to the latest Diet post from Overknight.

I will answer this hear, as the reasons for the thing you saw are entirely OOC and thus I can not explain them IC, and in fact they have never happende IC.

Those 120 Teutonic Knights are the escort that left Zagreb in 1168 under the command of Hans and was heading towards the Crusade. Then in 1170 Hans joined the Crusaders and travelled further East. I did this despite knowing that FactionHeir might have liked to let Hans travel north to join Leopold. I was away for two days and thought I would not have the time to develop the storyline I had discussed with FactionHeir.
Then, however FactionHeir contacted me and said that he wanted Hans to join Leopolds army instead of the Crusader army. Since we were still in the same turn, being 1170, I thought it would not hurt to rectify my earlier hastiness by allowing FactionHeir to play out the plotline. So I used the character_reset and let Hans move from the orignal position he had at the beginning of 1170 to Leopolds army.

That's when I made a second mistake. I forgot all about the Teutonic Knights I had sent along with Hans, so I left them with the Crusaders. Once I realized this I hoped that maybe only Hans had travelled north and his escort had joined the Crusaders none the less. Then I read the story from FactionHeir, that details that he had taken the Teutonic Knights with him. To bring everything in line again I took the Teutonic Knights and put them back to Hans, who then joined forces with Leopold outside of Budapest.

So you see, neither those Teutonic Knights nor Hans have ever been in the Crusading Army. Those 120 Teutonic Knights did not set out from Zagreb. I hope that clarifies your points, Overknight, and also any future points if any of you look at the discrepancies between some of the saves.

[OverKnight]

The IC issues still remain despite the time space rip in the game. Those knights were part of the original crusade armies. TC listed them in this Chancellor's report:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1483825&postcount=67

The integrity of the game should take precedence over stories developed from the game. Also the use of console commands would require a charter amendment, i.e. giving money to AI factions, and this was not done.

So despite OOC shenanigans, the IC fact remains that Crusade forces were stripped, one way or the other, from the Crusade armies. This makes Otto cranky.

OOC, the knights should be returned using the same console commands used to take them away, IC the knights would be assigned back to the trailing crusade army.

[StoneCold]

Hmm... I think let this play out itself IC. Just let Han's and Leopold do the explanation as happened in the story and Leopold can send back the Teutonic Knights ASAP. Nothing wrong with that... just don't use any console commands as that will make the story worse IC...

Just my two cents.

Edit: change templar to teutonic

[FactionHeir]

Basically the way I understood it (from one of the saves I've seen at least) the Teutons and Hans were behind Henry's army by at least a turn's march.
The very same turn, Ituralde and I started devloping a story where I thought he had given me the Teutons as well (in one of the saves you can actually see Hans with 2 teuton regiments between Zagreb and Henry). ICly, you can see it as the knights acting on the chancellor's or Hans' orders to divert.

Now, the issue with the character_reset was only done because Ituralde had moved them to Henry (together with my avatar) before consulting with me. Using the console command was thus not cheating per se nor against the rules as he merely set Hans and the knights back to the same position they started the turn out at (not to give them extra moves at all).

[Ituralde]

Hmh.. I see, I see. Even more reason for Henry and the Crusaders to be mad at Hans or rather blame Leopold for it. Now I remember where those Teutonic Knights had come from. :beam:

I think we should let this play out IC then. :2thumbsup:

[FactionHeir]

*cough* according to the story Leopold ordered the Teutons to follow Hans ;)

[OverKnight]

The problem is the Crusaders were never given an opportunity to respond to the kidnapping of 120 knights, something we would have noticed if done using normal movement. I doubt they would have abandoned the Cross because some 16 year old told them to.

Those knights were part of the original Crusade army, and were sent out to give Hans an escort from Zagreb so random venetians wouldn't skewer the princeling.

I'll wait and see what econ TC and Kagemusha say, but I feel those knights should be returned.

If they are not returned, expect some IC fireworks. :evilgrin:

Edit: FH, if you're going to put words in the mouths of other avatars, you need their permission.

[Ituralde]

Yeah, as I said, those Teutonic Knights are clearly missing from the Crusade, although not through the facts illustrated by your screenshots.

As I said, let's deal with this IC, it fits in nicely with the story I'm writing with FactionHeir right now, you should see it in the Stories Thread soon.
The missing Knights are correct OOC and IC, I just missed this, sorry about that.
How they went missing though, I think it's best if we agree on the 'kidnapping' by Hans and play on from there.

[FactionHeir]

OverKnight:
The only words I put into Leopold's mouth in my story were those when Hans arrived at the camp
"I shall think about it Hans, but for now, let me brief you on the situation at hand..."

The meeting at the start actually happened.


As for the story, you'll see it soon enough once Ituralde and I have finished writing it. It will make a lot of things clearer.

[AussieGiant]

Ahh you guy's!! :laugh4:

With nothing better to do lets cause some friction for the hell of it!!

That's what I love about all this...there's never a dull moment.

[OverKnight]

AG - We have to have something for the Second Elector to be shocked over. :laugh4:

Otto might be overreacting IC, but the use of console commands, cheating, is something that concerns me OOC. The fact that this was done without consulting anyone is also concerning.

Whether there's a story for it or not, it doesn't paper over the fact that it is a major disruption of the PBM.

[FactionHeir]

Otto might be overreacting IC, but the use of console commands, cheating, is something that concerns me OOC. The fact that this was done without consulting anyone is also concerning.

Whether there's a story for it or not, it doesn't paper over the fact that it is a major disruption of the PBM.

Using console commands for extra movement in a turn (i.e. to get somewhere double as fast as per last OOC CA that failed) would be something that requires consultation, but a simple misstep by the chancellor in terms of where to move an avatar is another thing, as no extra movement was gained and nothing major changed (except that the army was diverted of course)

As I said, Ituralde moved Hans together with the knights eastward at the start of the save. We only an hour later discussed where my avatar actually should go and he went back and remedied an overhasty step. Its not like he resest Hans all the way from Zagreb to Budapest.

[AussieGiant]

AG - We have to have something for the Second Elector to be shocked over. :laugh4:

Otto might be overreacting IC, but the use of console commands, cheating, is something that concerns me OOC. The fact that this was done without consulting anyone is also concerning.

Whether there's a story for it or not, it doesn't paper over the fact that it is a major disruption of the PBM.

Yes "OK" I'm wondering if I can blow this way out of proportion and cause another drama :)

With no avatar I'm losing a bit of momentum with what is going on...

Could anyone who remembers what I was doing a month ago give me a series of one word descriptions for how I was playing this guy? :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Annoying. :saint:

[AussieGiant]

Annoying. :saint:

I see...

....GH would you like to take a seat on the couch here and tell me about your experiences, let your emotions go, become one with your feelings.

Anything else more descriptive about the character you remmemmber....? :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ghost of Kaiser Heinrich:

You see, I had plans. Big plans. Plans that, unfortunately, needed a majority to pass. If I was elected Chancellor in 1140 then it would have been so much easier to execute them. Instead, I have to plot and scheme, do my work with the help of others, and when the Pope was finally killed it was much more difficult to get rid of the other ones. If I had full military control then we would have had Otterbach on the Papal seat right now.

But nooooooo, I get this little whiny Austrian Elector with no land to call his own and no military experience declaring his support for my rival EVEN BEFORE THE ELECTION BEGINS. Bah.

(Oh, TinCow, expect my reply to your PM later tonight.)

[AussieGiant]

I see...

...now, your doing well GH...

...go on, tell me what else happened.

Turning to the nurse in the room and whispering

Get the sedative ready I think we have a live one here.

So "My Kaiser" what happened next?

[Warluster]

Hey Ituralde, I finished the battle, and have uploaded the the next save file.

The battle was a complete succes, and nowUlrich can be knighted!

[TinCow]

There's no way for me to respond to the Teuton issue IC because what was done makes absolutely no sense IC. They weren't ever under Hans' control, they were Crusaders. One group was even the fellows who had become friends with Max and toured around the Reich with him during his Chancellorship. I can't think of any coherent way to explain their absence. Furthermore, you have deprived the Crusaders of all of their cavalry. It took time for me to arrange the armies so that they had a balanced for and I intentionally recruited those Teutons and marched them all the way down there to take part in the Crusade. This is ridiculous, return them.

[StoneCold]

TC, I thought that group of Teutons is still under you. They are the more battered unit in your army group rt?

I think IC wise is as the story by FH, the Teutons are dispatch by Henry to escort Hans to the Crusader army of Henry, but Hans hijack it to Leopold's camp. Why can't it be explained that way? Force wise, I agree that it must be return and I see not indication that Ituralde says he will keep it for his used.

[Ituralde]

I believe the main mistake that I made, was that I forgot were those two units of Teutonic Knights had come from. I even once missed them when I was checking TC's post which told about the Crusader army makeup. That's why I so easily agreed to Hans abduction of those forces for his own means. I figured that he would recieve some kind of escort to travel through hostile land and then forgot where I had taken them from.

On top of that comes the fact that I have then used console commands to restore the game to the way I had initially planned it out. I did not do this to gain an advantage, but just to retrace the steps of one character, so that I could do him the favour of added roleplay for his character. I only had the story FactionHeir had developed in mind and wanted to assist. This was intended as a one-time thing under these special circumstances. Seeing the disturbances it has caused I already regret it. I also realize that this can be seen as a breach of trust, and rightfully so. I can only say that I am sorry for what I've done and I want to apologize for the inconvience my actions have caused.

I will adress the issues adressed at Leopold IC, but feel that before I do that I would like to put aside some issues OOC first. After all this is a game, and it's about fun and I really like playing with every one of you and would not want that someone has to hold a grudge against me.
Like I said it was a one-time thing and I will definetly not do it again. I tried to explain my reasons and I hope you can understand them and accept my apology for the mistakes I have made.


The way I see it we can now either accept the IC explanation written by FactionHeir or I retrace the steps of the Teutonic Knights again to return them to the Crusade. The second option will not erase the allegation made against Leopold, but would be a compromise for my tampering with the game.

Please let me know what you think, and while you're at it, orders for the Crusaders concerning Sofia and that Hungarian army are appreciated too.

[Northnovas]

I feel there has been enough explaining of the situation and we can move on. I wasn't even aware of the counsel command and see everyone's point it would be my concern to for future play.
However, this can be dealt with IC for the explanation and looking at the last save the knights can easily catch up the Crusaders. If the Crusaders avoid conflict with the Hungarians passing through their ZOC will slow them down and the knights will catch up in a couple turns.
Let the IC's work it out for their actions and reactions has already mentioned.

[TinCow]

On top of that comes the fact that I have then used console commands to restore the game to the way I had initially planned it out. I did not do this to gain an advantage, but just to retrace the steps of one character, so that I could do him the favour of added roleplay for his character. I only had the story FactionHeir had developed in mind and wanted to assist. This was intended as a one-time thing under these special circumstances. Seeing the disturbances it has caused I already regret it. I also realize that this can be seen as a breach of trust, and rightfully so. I can only say that I am sorry for what I've done and I want to apologize for the inconvience my actions have caused.

Actually, I had no problems at all with the use of the console command. Your reasons for doing so were fully justified. If the decision to remove the Teutons had been approved of, I doubt anyone would have objected. It was a creative use of the game commands to fix an error that would not have been made IC. The only issue for me was whether the Teutons were in the Crusade or not, not how they left.

Certainly, do not use console commands regularly, but if you need to do something to fix an error that does not make IC sense or which was simply the result of a lapse of concentration, I encourage you to do so again. Just make sure people will agree with end result before you do it! :2thumbsup:

[FactionHeir]

In the light of patch 1.2 being delayed indefinitely, I still have been continuing work on fixing the issues the new character trait and ancillaries files for 1.2 have brought up and making new additions to plug a few holes in triggers.
After over a week of testing (which is ~8 hours a day) in 2 full campaigns, I have not run into problems anymore that I didn't fix and think its time for an update.

Note the files are completely compatible with 1.1 (which is what I'm using anyway) and will not be causing problems in relation to compatibility.

As such, please download following file for your KOTR:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix12a.rar

Please do not download KOTRfix12.rar as this was a faulty upload (i missed a file in there and noticed after pressing upload)

Please also take note that there are 2 new files in the rar. Those files are just for the game to recognize the new traits introduced by the leaked 1.2 patch (InquisitorSuccess and GoodSaboteur). They are to stay with the other text files in the data directory.


[edit]
Ituralde, I sent you some extra lines to fix up retroactively the old problem regarding heretics. Check your PMs

[OverKnight]

1174 is shaping up to be an interesting year; wayward Englishmen, knights returned with interest and the Crusade awash in a sea of pink.

Are we going to have a Chancellor's report soon? I'm curious as to how all this happened.

[Ituralde]

Chancellor Report will come this evening.
The savegame is with FLYdude.

[econ21]

In the light of patch 1.2 being delayed indefinitely, I still have been continuing work on fixing the issues the new character trait and ancillaries files for 1.2 have brought up and making new additions to plug a few holes in triggers.


Thanks for doing all this work, Factionheir. :bow: From what you've seen of the file, do you think we will be able to continue our campaign on the 1.2 patch when it finally comes out?

I am little worried about the reports of problems over the vices and virtues - here's one comment in the Citadel:


Note, however, that people have reported some oddities when using old savegames with 1.2. Most notably, you may have all your traits become the wrong thing: it seems they changed the trait file (likely added and/or removed some) which means that traits in save games all get shifted around weirdly. It's recommended to start a new campaign in order to avoid those potential weird things.

[FactionHeir]

Using 1.2 data files only for a 1.1 version isn't causing any problems for me so far.

Actually there was one oddity in starting a new campaign that for some reason my trigger trait TolerantWoman was never triggered on a successful diplomacy mission (used to have it on 20%), but on 100% it would always work. I think I shall try it with 99% and see what it does. It worked in the old file though. Might also be chance working against, me but then the PretentiousWoman thing always fired. Well, random number generators, what can I say :D

I got myself a comparison tool and from what I can see, there are no major shiftings/changes from the 1.1 to 1.2 file. Possibly only happens if you had the actual 1.2 leaked installed. I'm running 1.1 with mainly 1.2 data files to check for inconsistencies and basically what I can do to improve the game on my end.

As such, I can't say for sure what will happen if we actually did install the leaked patch in its completeness, as there might be some weird things. For example I cannot use the new resources file from 1.2 on a running 1.1 campaign without starting a new one (will CTD otherwise). But the 1.2 resoruce file is kind of messed anyway since it removes almost all resources off the map and spawns some random gold resources over europe. Many changes are also only in the 1.2 exe file (anti traits, shield fix), so I didn't get to test those with 1.1.

I would recommend not going to the leaked version though as the AI isn't improved and at some points more buggy (especially when AI brings reinforcements) and also its total peace in all my current VH campaigns...boring :p

As for VnV in specific, except for that oddity with TolerantWoman, I haven't seen any problems. All works fine on my end. Btw, I did do a rework on the pagan magician similar to the one I pmed you about.

Oh, one thing I actually wanted to ask about. If Hans gets to command a siege battle, would it be OK if I used my fix to play it on a smaller scale? Can't run the higher settlements on mine (till late may possibly when I get my new laptop from overseas - and even then I'm not sure if the prob will persist)

[econ21]

If Hans gets to command a siege battle, would it be OK if I used my fix to play it on a smaller scale? Can't run the higher settlements on mine ...

I'm not quite sure what you can't run - do you mean the large unit settings causes problems for you in sieges? I thought that the unit settings was fixed in the savegame, in which case you would be stuck with it. If you mean something else or you have a workaround, I'm fine with whatever you do as long as you can return a savegame that others can continue to use with the original settings.

[OverKnight]

The chronology is current up to 1174. I will be happy to link to battle reports once they are completed (hint, hint). I've also added some more links regarding the Crusade and clarified some other events.

As always, feel free to mention any errors or omissions, I'm already losing track of how many battles have been fought near Thorn (8? :laugh4: ).

Edit: Good battle report FLYdude, I guess if I'd been holed up in a city for 8 years I'd be cranky too.

[FactionHeir]

I'm not quite sure what you can't run - do you mean the large unit settings causes problems for you in sieges? I thought that the unit settings was fixed in the savegame, in which case you would be stuck with it. If you mean something else or you have a workaround, I'm fine with whatever you do as long as you can return a savegame that others can continue to use with the original settings.

Sieges larger than large town and larger than castle cause problems for me, already on small unit sizes, so I'll already be hard pressed with large ones there, but I think it should be fine.
Its basically only local, so as to the lag tutorial I wrote. That is, it would only affect the battle on my end but not for anyone else.

[StoneCold]

Overknight, I think FH's avatar is also moving down to follow Crusade, maybe the crusader council should let him take command of those knights, again...

[OverKnight]

Ah well there's what's happening in the stories thread, and there's what I see from the latest save. Given the delay in council deliberations I'd figured I'd get my say in before the situation progresses too far.

Even if Otto knew Hans was leading them, I doubt he would entrust the safety and leadership of the crusaders to the prodigal son who put them in danger in the first place.

Either way it might be an interesting story of it's own.

[Stuperman]

My very late battle report is up here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1496162&postcount=41)

I'm back in action (at a decent computer) and catching up (stories, ect.).

I'm the proud uncle of young Micheal, who is healthy and so is my sis (mom).

edot: to fix link

[econ21]

Good to have you back, Stuperman, and congratulations on your nephew. :balloon:


On another matter, having read the latest Ituralde/factionheir story and looked at the savegame kotr1174-2.zip, I am a little confused. Why is Hans not with the knights moving to the crusade? I thought from the latest story he would be. I think we should try to keep the stories and savegames consistent, otherwise other players don't know what's going on.

[StoneCold]

I think it is consistent. The way I see it was Ituralde sent the knights off to the crusade first, before the battle of Budapest, as can be seen from the units involved in the battle. Hans was in the battle and left after the battle. I think that was a turn later.

[econ21]

OK, thanks - I was confused by Hans talking to the Teutonic captain but now I remember he was transfered to Hans' personal escort. From the savegame, it's not clear how Hans can safely join the crusade given where he is.

[StoneCold]

Maybe wait for FH to reply. Seems to me that he wanted his avatar to strike out by himself. :P

[FactionHeir]

StoneCold is quite right actually, not much to add besides that I hope you are all enjoying the story :D

[TevashSzat]

That level 8ish heretic called Miachel something is sure proving to be hard to denounce, how did he appear? Was he a high level priest gone bad or just randomly came?

[FactionHeir]

Chances are he either got good rolls on turning heretic or he still has some priest ancillaries (currently it is not possible to remove ancillaries from characters via data files) which boost his piety.
Michel de Lannoy has 7 piety btw. Not sure about traits/retinues as I spent the last 20 minutes ending the turn to spy on him (yes it took me that long to end turn....bloody diplomats bickering about with campaign map lag) but got no info for some odd reason. Even though I made the spy level 10.

Previously, priests used to stay at the piety level when they went heretic and possibly gain 0-3 extra piety from heretic specific ancillaries. I changed the system to remove all priest traits and make them true heretics, so when they do turn heretic, they roll anew for NaturalHereticSkill and GrwoingConviction. They still have their base chance of getting heretic ancillaries.

[Ituralde]

Michel de Lannoy was a former priest of ours preaching in the Bern region, who turned heretic some two turns ago.

Should I wait with the Crusade movement until you guys have made up your minds about it? Or just assume the wisest course of action from what I have heard of your discussions?
It's the only thing left to do, before hitting End Turn. :beam:

[OverKnight]

The Council hasn't come to a decision yet it seems. But the four active members are spread between Europe and the States, not an ideal configuration for a nimble committee.

I'd love it if you used my plan, I made charts and everything :2thumbsup: , but in the case of a hung jury, I'd say your free to use your discretion. I wouldn't want to hold up the game.

[econ21]

Having an army governed by a committee is probably not the wisest (and certainly not the fastest) method of command - for that reason, Henry will be pushing for the Council of Crusaders to be disbanded once it takes Jerusalem.

I agree with Overknight, I don't think the Council deliberations should be allowed to hold up the game. Ideally, the Chancellor should coordinate with the Crusader liason (Tincow) to try to anticipate and avoid such delays. But if that fails, as in the present situation, the Chancellor should just infer the wishes of the Crusader Council as best he can.

My reading of the present situation is that two of the Council (Kagemusha and I) back Henry's plan for the rearguard to doubleback to the bridge to join the knights. Otto's plan has not gathered any additional support. Tincow logged on last night but did not post in the Council so I would treat him as an abstention (unless he posts before Ituralde returns to the game). Perhaps the advanceguard could follow the path Otto sketched?

BTW, while we have only 4 players on the Council, I think we should give TC the casting vote given his role as liason with the Chancellor.

[FactionHeir]

Ituralde,

Have you moved all spies/assassins yet to boost their skill? :)

[TinCow]

Sorry, I didn't read the Throne Room last time I logged on. I have voiced my opinion now. If my vote is deciding and the move hasn't yet been made, go with OverKnight's plan, as indicated in my post.

[Ituralde]

I will now move the Crusader army according to the wishes of the Council. Glad I waited as my plans are more in line with those proposed by Overknight. The route he has drawn exactly matches the one I had planned to travel with the Teutonic Knights.


@FactionHeir
I'll try to use the ones that are idle, but usually wait for high percentages of success to let them acquire better traits.

[OverKnight]

Check the crusader thread Ituralde, TC's supported my plan. So it's 2-2.

Edit: Oh wait, I'm confused. . .are we going with econ's plan or mine?

[StoneCold]

Ituralde is going with ur plan. Think Econ decide to give a deciding voice in the crusader council to TC, as he is the council coordinator, to speed things up incase of ties or tactical requirement.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Quick question - hopefully someone online now can answer this.

I am to play the battle using FactionHeir's newest file, the version 1.2 of his fixes. Correct or not?

[econ21]

That's my understanding, GH.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks. :bow:

Savegame uploaded, I'll do the battle report ASAP.

[FactionHeir]

Erm no. Not 1.2. Use 1.2a

Actually....it doesn't matter much since you aren't the acting chancellor :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

1.2a is what I meant/downloaded, so no big deal then. :yes:

[FactionHeir]

Unless the Venetians or the Hungarians near the border block the way for Hans to move into Hungarian territory after you end turn, I would like you to move him to the southwest tip of Sofia and besiege it (must have enough MP for the siege please make sure he does!). In case Hans gets attacked by the Hungarians at the next end turn then, withdraw from battle so he auto moves into Venetian territory and can continue from there :)

[TinCow]

Is this a game trick I am not aware of? What's the advantage of besieging Sofia?

[StoneCold]

I think FH is hoping to use the retreating exploit to increase his movement point per turn... :P That is assuming the retreat moves him in the correct direction and not get attack by another stack... then he is out of luck... :P Think the besieging is to force the AI to break siege immediately as FH only has a small number of troops. And maybe kill some trade from the settlement as a by product?

[OverKnight]

What possible IC reasons could there be for besieging Sofia with 30 men? While technically not a cheat, this would make no sense from a narrative view point.

[FactionHeir]

IC reason, and with ~23 men by that time....good question!
It wouldn't be a true siege as Hans doesn't have any infantry and with a small bodyguard, you can't siege a citadel. See it as blocking the road to hurt the Hungarian funds somewhat and stealing some of the resources from the merchant wagons that would have gone into/out of Sofia. (He might buy a few mercs from those stolen funds)

I mean I wouldn't have to retreat as I could just fight the battle and run in circles till the timer expires and thus possibly take Sofia, but that would break an edict.

Also, I'm withdrawing from pre combat and not in combat. Withdrawing in combat nets a lot of extra movement. Withdrawing pre only moves me down 2-3 squares.

The OOC point of besieging instead of just standing right next to Sofia is that I won't have to move through the Zone of Control around Sofia the next turn plus Hungarians move after Venetians so once they sally and I withdraw, I won't have to worry about a Venetian stack attacking my exhausted unable to retreat unit.

Note Hans is a promising tactician ;)

[TinCow]

FactionHeir, you've repeatedly urged us to use various game exploits or 'features' to our advantage in this PBM. I think you're missing the point. Victory is not really the objective here. The game doesn't get more fun when it's over. I think stuff like this is actively bad for KOTR and it should be actively discouraged. If you want to play like that SP, be my guest, but I suspect you misunderstand the fundamental purpose of the PBM to begin with.

Ituralde, I urge you not to do this. There is no legislation at all dictating Hans' movements, so you can do what you like with him. If you feel inclined to let him march after the Crusade, he should have to risk his neck and possibly die in the process. Using game exploits to make it safer for him ignores the entire downside to his choice to go to Budapest in the first place. Decisions have consequences.

[FactionHeir]

FactionHeir, you've repeatedly urged us to use various game exploits or 'features' to our advantage in this PBM. I think you're missing the point. Victory is not really the objective here. The game doesn't get more fun when it's over. I think stuff like this is actively bad for KOTR and it should be actively discouraged. If you want to play like that SP, be my guest, but I suspect you misunderstand the fundamental purpose of the PBM to begin with.

Right, while I don't feel the need to argue with you as it would be pointless anyway, I do feel the need of refuting your blatantly false accusations aimed at my persona.

First of all, I want you to find a post in this subforum where I am 'urging' anyone to use an 'exploit' or 'feature' in your sense to gain a quick victory and end the game. If you can, I'd be amazed. I can tell you now already that you won't find anything. This is because I do not 'urge' or 'force' people into doing these but I merely state observations, as in the case with the sally for dijon, which by the way was what I found possible and if you read carefully not meant to imply in any way what anyone else should be doing, or suggestions, as the double movement for crusades (which btw is in the Swabia forum you shouldn't be reading or commenting on) which I only explained how to do but not saying "this should be done, there is no other way" or with any similar implications. Also, the thing with papal elections was again an observation to what GH said to inform him that in SP he could have achieved killing several popes a turn, but you again will not find any hint of a suggestion and/or urge in that message. If you cannot take innocent observations that people like to post on online forums (such as "hey there is a shield bug" or in this case "you could have killed that guy a few times, too late now anyway", just because they go against your own morals, then don't comment on them or ignore them. There is no need to go on ranting/flaming peope for things you cannot handle.

The reason I even posted the current suggestion for Hans movement instead of just doing it via PM where there would probably be a lot less hate from you (you probably wouldn't even have noticed) was that I was looking for input on whether sieging Sofia was acceptable or whether I should just stand Hans on the square I designated without sieging. I wouldn't have expect you to take this as flame bait. I suggest that you sit back, relax and read carefully over things people write before drawing conclusions, because its easy to read words the way you want them to read like and the way they are intended to read like by the writer.

[GeneralHankerchief]

That's taking it a bit too far.

I think the goal of this PBM is to make the game as enjoyable as possible for all players involved. All other goals are second to this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this PBM would be a larger success if the Reich eventually fell but it was fun while it lasted, rather than if all goals of victory were met but wasn't interesting from an RP experience.

Obviously, the game does have several flaws in which our position can be enhanced, but we shouldn't exploit them if there's no RP justification. I think each flaw and its potential to be exploited should be examined individually, since there have been instances where it would have made sense RP-wise.

The Whack-a-Pope thing did make RP sense, since why did Heinrich have to wait two years for a new Papal election?

However, in this case with Sofia, I really don't see how it will play out at all. CA does give cavalry extra campaign map movement points. Hans should just keep using those. Eventually he will catch up with the Crusading armies.

Both of you guys need to calm down. No need to get into a flame war over game mechanics.

:flowers:

[FactionHeir]

I think the goal of this PBM is to make the game as enjoyable as possible for all players involved. All other goals are second to this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this PBM would be a larger success if the Reich eventually fell but it was fun while it lasted, rather than if all goals of victory were met but wasn't interesting from an RP experience.

Obviously, the game does have several flaws in which our position can be enhanced, but we shouldn't exploit them if there's no RP justification. I think each flaw and its potential to be exploited should be examined individually, since there have been instances where it would have made sense RP-wise.

The Whack-a-Pope thing did make RP sense, since why did Heinrich have to wait two years for a new Papal election?

However, in this case with Sofia, I really don't see how it will play out at all. CA does give cavalry extra campaign map movement points. Hans should just keep using those. Eventually he will catch up with the Crusading armies.

Pretty much what you said and why after getting a general opinion I think its better not to instigate a siege but instead move as far as possible towards Thessalonica on the road without entering Venetian territory and leaving at least 1 MP square left so Hans can retreat from battle if attacked (note you can only retreat if you have at least 1 MP left)



Both of you guys need to calm down. No need to get into a flame war over game mechanics.

:flowers:

Nice smiley, where did you find it? I only see the few to my right.

[Warluster]

With the smileys thing just press the More button down the bottom of the smiley box. Or go to your user CP bar and then press Change favourite Smileys or something.

[FactionHeir]

Ahhh finally I got some useful smileys :thumbsup:

[StoneCold]

Happy joy joy.. :) keep the flames in the Diet.. :P

[TevashSzat]

Do the crusaders have a specific city as their target in mind or will it just be any city in the Levant and be more of a situational thing?

[econ21]

Do the crusaders have a specific city as their target in mind ...?

Jerusalem or bust.

[FactionHeir]

Regarding Henry's letter to the diet:
How are crusaders going to vote in the upcoming diet being that far away and communication likely breaking down in hostile territory in terms of realism? A split empire?

[StoneCold]

Econ, I thought at least 2 cities will be taken, one for the Empire and Jerusalem for the Pope so as to defend him?

[TevashSzat]

If any good opportunities would happen to arise lets say, a poorly defended Antioch or Iconium, will the crusaders stop and take the city?

[TinCow]

It will have to be discussed amongst the Crusaders, but I think so. I would actually expect to see a chain of HRE provinces (not necessarily connected) once we get deep into Turkish and Egyptian territory. It makes sense strategically and is also historically accurate.

[OverKnight]

As TC said, we're not even in Anatolia yet, so there's time to consider targets of opportunity. My main goal is to get across the Hellespont and to skedaddle out of Byzantine territory before we piss them off. Oh and get the cav back to the Crusade. . .my fingers are crossed on that one.

Something to consider about outposts is that if we want to keep them rather than just sacking and rearming, it might be wise to leave an avatar in them to command the garrison. Otherwise we're at the mercy of auto-calc which doesn't work out well for defending settlements.

Edit: I would also prefer seizing castles rather than cities. They have less unrest issues, have better defenses and would produce or reinforce units the Crusade already has.

[Ignoramus]

I've though of a way we can spice up the PBM a bit. Maybe we could give Dukes the right to determine where "elite" units go. For instance, supposing Franconia wanted exclusive access to trebuchets. Venice, which is a Bavarian city, is the only settlement in the Reich that can construct them. Duke Dietrich would then negotiate with Duke Otto, and perhaps offer a unit that Bavaria cannot access. This would help display fragmentation without causing delays or extra bother for the Chancellor.

[econ21]

Ignoramus: that proposal is very suitable for a Constitutional Ammendment; the next Diet session is coming soonish so you could try to draft one to propose. You'd have to define elite, but it should be fairly straightforward. I'm not sure if I personally would support it or not, but it is the kind of thing the set up of the game allows us to decide in character.

[Ignoramus]

Ok, econ. I was thinking of units like Trebuchets, Halberd and Pike Militia, Pavise Crossbowmen, and maybe Dismounted Feudal Knights. Later on we could include Zweilanders, Forlorne Hope etc.

By the way, your English AAR is very interesting. I look forward to reading more of it.

I might consider doing one, but I find it difficult to spend the time.

[econ21]

Definitely include DFK as elites, I think they are great. You can list the elites in the prospective Constitutional Amendment when the time comes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I guess that this is Heinrich coming out in me, but I am against this Constitutional amendment. It was always the case in WotS and KotR that the Chancellor would have complete say in regards to all military matters. I know that historical army composition has always been in place, but it seems like slowly, power has ebbed away from the Chancellor.

First, there were the Household Armies, which Heinrich was against for obvious reasons. But now there will be the elite unit issue which will be taken away from the Chancellor as well.

The title (King of the Romans) implies that the executive position, be it the Emperor or the Chancellor, will have more power and a more centralized influence in this game than our previous PBM. However, ever since the start, this has slowly not been the case. I believe that if this trend continues that the position of Chancellor will become a logistical nightmare and it will be a burden more than anything else. We may as well just call it "The Will of the Diet."

[econ21]

Yes, on reflection, I agree with you GH. I fear this would slow the game down for relatively little benefit. If such an ammendment were passed, I'd want it to be like Household Armies - the Dukes set policy in the full Diet sessions and then the Chancellor implements during the game turns. Having the Chancellor stop play while Dukes horse trade would slow the game to a crawl.

[Stuperman]

Well, I disagree about the Household armies, I think they were necessary for out of character reasons, to help keep people involved and give some substance to the Idea of households. Without them the households idea would be rather dull, limited to bickering over which lands they get, the household armies allow for more game level interaction for more people. It was always my thought that once the riech could afford it we would build a 'Kaiser's personal army' and 'Chancellors personal army'. Restoring some of the "lost power" GH was talking about.

I do agree though that personal control of the eliets would be a nightmare.

[econ21]

Well, I disagree about the Household armies...

Don't get me wrong, I support Household armies. I was the one who proposed them afterall, ~:pimp:. I was just saying I like the way we have set implemented them so that they don't slowdown the game. Dukes give standing orders at each full Diet - the Chancellor executes these as best he can. It's purely at his discretion whether he responds to any alerations or backseat driving from the Dukes. I'd like any further decentralisation to keep to this principle of not slowing the game down.

[OverKnight]

I was fooling around with paint and came up with this:

https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2998/maphreduchiesio4.jpg

Swabia = Green
Franconia = Blue
Austria = Purple
Bavaria = Red
Imperial remains Black

I know the distribution will probably change soon, but I think it's a good way to visualize the Duchies and the Empire as a whole.

[FactionHeir]

:gah: We have been invaded by France, Milan, England and Byzantium! :gah:

Nice work though. Except I can't quite see whether Zagreb is Imperial or not (but then even on a non modified strat map its hard to tell...too thin.)

[OverKnight]

There are only so many colors in the rainbow. . .

Zagreb is clearly purple, are you thinking of Venice (Imperial) or Ragusa (Venetian)?

Edit: Very good story, GH and TC. . .now I very much want Otterbach to be Pope, even though she's a bit down the list. . .

I feel sort of bad that Otto gave Milan to Conrad now.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I feel sort of bad that Otto gave Milan to Conrad now.

Don't. Conrad's parentage isn't the sort of thing he wants known, at least not yet.

[econ21]

Brilliant writing, GH and TC. :bow: When Conrad's parentage was revealed, you could have knocked me down with a feather, as they say.

[AussieGiant]

I agree with GH,

Further legislation is not a preference for me. I think the household armies were the correct step, but any further steps would detract from an inherently centralised historical system...plus it has to make sense in reality.

edit: Yes the plot thickens considerably...I could not help thinking of The Empire Strikes Back :)

schoooo schiiiiii

James Earl Jones voice:

"I am your father Conrad!!!"

Luke’s voice:

"Nooooooo"

Conrad then proceeds to throw himself off the battlements. Landing in a cart full of hay he is whisked somewhere safe to be nurtured by his long lost sister...hey...now that is an idea...maybe someone is in drag and really a girl and Conrad's sister?? :)

[Stuperman]

@econ sorry, I ment I disagree with GH, he sounded like he didn;t like them.

again I'll push the Idea of a Royal army under the command of the Kaiser at all times (he could give it up if he so chose), it'd help restore some royal power that has been degraded in some peoples view. It also wouldn't be a bad cover story for a probably much needed 2nd army in the east after the crusade progresses a bit.

edit: Great Story guys, Interesting twist!

[OverKnight]

We really don't need a royal army at this point since the Kaiser is with the Crusade for the foreseeable future. Perhaps once the Kaiser is again in the Empire you could propose something.

Having thought more about GH and TC's story, I think there's a little known by-law in the Charter that says "Every Avatar shall have a dysfunctional relationship with their father. If a loving relationship is needed, the Diet must give permission with a 2/3 vote." :laugh4:

Edit:


Maybe someone is in drag and really a girl and Conrad's sister?? :)

Well, cross dressing is in the family tree.

[AussieGiant]

We really don't need a royal army at this point since the Kaiser is with the Crusade for the foreseeable future. Perhaps once the Kaiser is again in the Empire you could propose something.

Having thought more about GH and TC's story, I think there's a little known by-law in the Charter that says "Every Avatar shall have a dysfunctional relationship with their father. If a loving relationship is needed, the Diet must give permission with a 2/3 vote." :laugh4:

Edit:



Well, cross dressing is in the family tree.

There you go!!

I like it...surely that's a plot just waiting to happen :inquisitive:

[FactionHeir]

Why for some reason do I think Otterbach is Conrad's mother?

[OverKnight]

Let me refer you to this story:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1417206&postcount=9

[FactionHeir]

Yes, that's the one I thought of. It fits together with Otterbach avoiding Conrad but visiting often anyway.

[OverKnight]

A good continuation GH, the plot thickens. About the positioning of the stories in the Chronology, do you want them in the year listed at the beginning of the stories or do you have a different placement in mind?

This is also true for other authors, without a set date, much of the story placement, such as Max's conversion, is guesswork. I'd be open to corrections.

It's a shame that Otterbach failed to prosecute that Heretic, she's lost some piety and is out of the Preferati.

[GeneralHankerchief]

No, the chronology listed in the stories is fine. :yes:

-edit-


It's a shame that Otterbach failed to prosecute that Heretic, she's lost some piety and is out of the Preferati.

Well, we could always execute Operation: Heinrich's Revenge... just not with Conrad.

[OverKnight]

Our Cardinals are lumped together in the middle of the College.

6 - Herden
7 - von der Pfalz (higher piety than above, but secretly female)
8 - Otterbach (From 3 to 8, that's got to hurt, perhaps there are rumors?)

Heinrich's revenge would unfortunately carve through two HRE cardinals, something even our most bloody minded electors would not want to do. From my brief exposure to Papal elections, it seems that the College will not vote for a Cardinal from an excommed faction. So we'd have to kill ~7 Popes to empty the College enough where we could force our choice through. This does not include promotions into the College while the Papal culling is occuring.

Ugh.

I've put Conrad's story right before the battle against the Hungarians in 1170, which seems to fit.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Perhaps what we could do is just start voting for Cardinals that aren't Imperial even when our guys make the Preferati. Once Otterbach comes in, we throw all of our influence behind him. I think it should work.

- Cardinals always follow your orders and vote as you say, even if they're up for election but you decide to vote for another guy.

- They always vote as a bloc when controlled by a human player.

I'm 99% sure that both of the above are correct.

[Northnovas]

[QUOTE=GeneralHankerchief]Perhaps what we could do is just start voting for Cardinals that aren't Imperial even when our guys make the Preferati. Once Otterbach comes in, we throw all of our influence behind him. I think it should work.[QUOTE]

I think that could work if we elect a Pope from another faction and by giving our support then maybe we can get peace. Once we get in good relations then the next election we may have the support of other factions.
As long as we are excomm we will never be in a block of support.

[GeneralHankerchief]

We tried that twice. We didn't get reinstated, but our Pope-o-Meter did go up slightly. However, when Otterbach was in the preferati and we voted for her the Spanish Cardinal still won big.

I wonder if we had thrown our support behind him instead of Otterbach, combined with Heinrich's death, if we would have been reconciled.

[Northnovas]

You know I think from previous elections in SP that would help along with the faction leaders death. Being in the block that supports the winner helps the pope o meter. If we vote for the right Cardinal they may be more receptive to our peace offer??

[FactionHeir]

If you are at war with the papal states, you can never be reconciled unless you get a ceasefire or elect your own cardinal.
Also, allies always vote for you unless they favor another ally with a preferati more (relations). They don't care about excommunication.

So yeah. We somehow need to get more allies (very unlikely) or buy cardinal votes (very expensive, ~30k, but regardless of vote number), or clean out the college. Assassins could help in some respect too. At the same time of course we could train more priests and train them intelligently - i.e. according to triggers.

An excerpt:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents43a
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition not AtSea
and AgentType = priest
and not AgentType = heretic
and TimeInRegion > 3
and TimeSinceHeresy < 5 >= 8
and PopulationHeretic < 5
and ReligionShift > 8

Affects Purifier 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents43b
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition not AtSea
and AgentType = priest
and not AgentType = heretic
and TimeInRegion > 5
and TimeSinceReligion > 90 >= 10
and PopulationOwnReligion > 95
and ReligionShift > 8

Affects Missionary 1 Chance 100
;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents37_conversion1
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition not AtSea
and AgentType = priest
and ReligionShift >= 7
and TimeInRegion < 3
and Trait StrongFaith < 1

Affects StrongFaith 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents37_conversion2
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition not AtSea
and AgentType = priest
and ReligionShift >= 8
and TimeInRegion > 1
and Trait StrongFaith >= 1

Affects StrongFaith 1 Chance 50


Those are the main priest piety traits. I.e. its best to have priests in regions that have less than 5 heresy but fairly low catholicism or fairly high catholicism (doesn't matter as much). Having priests in high heresy regions doesn't do anything but turn them heretic. And of course prosecuting heretics and witches...

[StoneCold]

that is a long way down the road. so the best way forward is give small bribe to the pope until we are high enough on the pope-o-meter, then ask for a ceasefire, then give land? or we can't even bribe the pope because of war?

[Northnovas]

That is a good observation by FH maybe creating more intelligent priest and sending them East with the Crusades. The low Catholicism in those areas will help their piety and get them recognized for College openings.
However the point stated is it is a long process of making friends (diplomacy) or training priest (evangelism)?

[AussieGiant]

If we built up a large enough navy and sent them to the Middle East, or had 3 or 4 priests follow the crusaders we would have very highly ranked cardinals rather quickly.

Why don't we do that?

[StoneCold]

The crusade originally had 3 priest attached to them, but already lost one to heretics.

[AussieGiant]

So if that is the case I guess the next Diet session should include an edict which pursues the strategy of getting a lot more priests in play and sending them by ship to the middle east.

We have to reconcile in my mind to activate the in game mechanics of excom and therefore preventing expansion against other Catholics which we can do far too easily as I believe to this date none of our general's have lost a battle.

Having an invincible army is a little unbalanced IMO.

[econ21]

I like the idea of sending some priests by boats, Aussiegiant. :2thumbsup:


...preventing expansion against other Catholics which we can do far too easily as I believe to this date none of our general's have lost a battle.

Having an invincible army is a little unbalanced IMO.

I agree that we have expanded very effectively until the moratorium last Diet and probably could continue to do so. However, that's largely due to the skill of our Chancellors and generals (and failings of the AI). Our armies have been far from invincible in size or composition. Chancellor Sigismund often made his generals fight with very meagre forces. And when I gave each AI faction 100k last Diet session, I was afraid I'd put Ituralde in an impossible position but he's done very well with the limited resources available.

I intend to give each AI faction (but not the Pope) 100k next Diet too, as authorised by the Charter Ammendment, unless there is a general consensus I should not.


If you are at war with the papal states, you can never be reconciled unless you get a ceasefire or elect your own cardinal.

I wonder what would it take to get a ceasefire?

[FactionHeir]

I wonder what would it take to get a ceasefire?

WIth 1.2 files not much. With 1.1 files an arm and a leg.

[Ituralde]

I wonder what would it take to get a ceasefire?

Well at the beginning of my Chancellorship, when we still had some standing with the Pope, since we supported him, I once offered Florence and 2000 florins. I think the offer was Firmly Rejected. Since then I have offered frequently, but never hoped to get a positive answer.

[FactionHeir]

OK finished the battle. Uploading as we speak. Note the file is larger than usual because I included screens of the new turn reports which you don't see if you load the game on your end.

Hans got a clear defeat but is sole survivor. Will post battle report soon

[edit]
Save file is called kotr1178-5 btw. On retrospect maybe 1180-1 would have been more suitable, but too late.

[FactionHeir]

I intend to give each AI faction (but not the Pope) 100k next Diet too, as authorised by the Charter Ammendment, unless there is a general consensus I should not.

I think we should look how the financial standings are first (in the stats section of the save). Giving the AI more florins than they can spend doesn't help them at all. It actually only results in all their characters getting bad traits.

[Ituralde]

DONE!


I must say, that being Chancellor involves a lot more work than I had anticipated at first. Still I'm quite happy with the way it has all turned out. I want to apologize again for the delay I have caused at the beginning of my term, but private matters kept from playing as often as I wanted. Good luck to the next chap in line!

kotr1180 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1180.rar)

[FactionHeir]

Let me be the first to congratulate you on a chancellorship well done then :2thumbsup:

Wonder how we will work the diet this time. As I have mentioned a few times already, it would be difficult to communicate between crusaders and diet ICly, so are we going to ignore the distance fact and assume we are all present for the diet (or have medieval email to communicate) or are we having a limited diet?

As for chancellorship, I would think econ should use his priviledge, but that's up to him of course.
Been considering running myself, but not quite sure how that would go well after having alienated most of the dukes and the emperor :grin:

[TinCow]

The Library has been mostly updated, but there are a few things I haven't gotten around to yet and I've got other stuff to do at the moment. If anyone has some spare time and wants to help, I need the following things:

1) Updated list of who is playing what avatar and all of their proper titles
2) Updated battle information - Just total wins/losses, not casualty info

[econ21]

Wonder how we will work the diet this time. As I have mentioned a few times already, it would be difficult to communicate between crusaders and diet ICly, so are we going to ignore the distance fact and assume we are all present for the diet (or have medieval email to communicate) or are we having a limited diet?

The crusaders retain their full rights in the Diet, but I agree it would be nice to roleplay their physical abence in character. We can leave it to individual crusading players how they do this. For example, they could communicate via a proxy (as I think Duke Otto has been doing) or through letters to the Diet (like the Kaiser).

[econ21]

1) Updated list of who is playing what avatar and all of their proper titles


To the best of my knowledge, I've updated the titles and players in this table:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1

People can post any further corrections here. (I have not changed the stats, but will do so before the voting). It would be good if the Dukes could maintain the first post in their Duchy threads with an up to date list of their members and their titles. IIRC, players without avatars can now be Counts so potentially Dukes could create some new posts. (IMO, we should not hand them out like candy, but they would be nice rewards for active players - esp. the Austrians.)

[FactionHeir]

The crusaders retain their full rights in the Diet, but I agree it would be nice to roleplay their physical abence in character. We can leave it to individual crusading players how they do this. For example, they could communicate via a proxy (as I think Duke Otto has been doing) or through letters to the Diet (like the Kaiser).

Well, I guess medieval email it is :smiley2:

Btw, what was the difference between knight and army commander again?

[econ21]

Btw, what was the difference between knight and army commander again?

Beats me - we probably should drop the whole commander thing. (Originally, being a knight meant you were eligible to command, being a commander meant you actually had been given a command of 7+ units. But the distinction seems redundant now.)

BTW, I've now updated the avatar stats and influence in the playlist table.

[FactionHeir]

Swabia is so uninfluential overall ~:(

Totals:
Empire: 5
Swabia: 10 (didn't count tws as he hasn't been active)
Franconia: 15 (didn't count Ichigo as above, might lose 3 due to Jonas bailing)
Austria: 12
Bavaria: 18 (didn't count nazgul3)

Btw, which House does StoneCold belong to anyway

[StoneCold]

No house... :P I realised I can't play IC... hahah, so I only participate in OOC..

[econ21]

No house... :P I realised I can't play IC... hahah, so I only participate in OOC..

I've never quite understood that. It's been a while, but I am assuming you don't have a computer that can play M2TW? Given how most of the Austrians have been forced to participate without avatars, I don't see why that should be an insuperable obstacle. You could even take Jonas von Mahren, our now spare avatar, as yours and delegate command of any battles he gets into to another player.

EDIT: On second thoughts, a better use for Jonas may be to provide a new avatar for Kagemusha once Dietrich passes on.

[Ituralde]

I believe ArchdukeEvan from the House of Austria doesn't even own the game either, so there's no more reason StoneCold. :beam:

[Stuperman]

I think we should look how the financial standings are first (in the stats section of the save). Giving the AI more florins than they can spend doesn't help them at all. It actually only results in all their characters getting bad traits.


QTF, if all the other factions have redicuus amounts of florins, there is no point in giving them more, maybe just top them up to a set amount?

[OverKnight]

While giving factions gobs of money is a blunt insturment, it is one of the few options open to us to make the game more challenging. It made the last term more interesting and I feel we should do it again.

Papal negotiations are currently ludicrous. Even if we offered them Jerusalem and Florence I'm not sure if they'd go for it. Under the current patch, I don't have much hope we'll be reconciled or even have peace, though I am willing to try. Still, it does make the game interesting, though I would like to have some closure.

[FactionHeir]

I say we just continue Heinrich's legacy in terms of popes. The alternatives are simply too expensive.
Although....gifting the pope Jerusalem will result in it rioting straight away due to PO, so unless we can stabilize it by building massive PO buildings, converting to 100% christianity and exterminate the people there when we move in, there is no hope of the pope holding on to it without riots.

[Stuperman]

wouldn't it beome the papal capital and therefore immune to rebelion?

[OverKnight]

If it can be discussed in IC terms, lets bring the topic of what to do with Filippus into the Diet, it's probably going to be a major part of this session anyway. Carrot or stick? The world awaits. :sweatdrop:

@Ituralde, it looks like we have a Turkish Jihad army in Anatolia. Do you have any idea when this occurred and what city the Jihad was called for? The city is announced along with the Jihad at the start of the turn. This information, if available, might effect the deliberations of the Crusaders.

Edit: As for Jerusalem rioting against the Pope after we give it to him: A. We prepare the city for his Holiness as you said or B. Caveat Emptor

[Stuperman]

I agree with most Swabians that Ragusa needs to come under control of the riech, but my edict is currently limiting us. With this in mind is there any legal way to amend an edict that has already passed?

edit: It wasn't included at the time because venice it was Venice's last settlement.

[OverKnight]

An amendment can alter a previous amendment, so a 2/3 vote will be needed. If you want to make it one of Bavaria's ducal proposals, give it a shot it in the Bavaria thread. :2thumbsup:

Edit, @Stuperman: I hope once we get around to giving Jerusalem to the Pope we've made peace and they will have a city. But you might be right if Jerusalem is their only city.

[Stuperman]

well, no, it's not a CA, it's an Edict, and the Charter doesn;t cover amending them, would we have to amend the charter (to cover edict amendment) then pass the amendment to the edict to include Ragusa(I believe it's edict E1.7)?

[OverKnight]

My bad, you're right. So much for the Imperial Historian. . .:dizzy2:

Yeah, an edict will do.

Edit: Edicts, unless spelled out in the edict itself, only last for the term of the new Chancellor. So a new edict should serve to modify an older one, even if it does have a long shelf life.

[Stuperman]

Edict E1.7: Should edict E1.1 pass for the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, Marseille and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

Edict E1.1 is the crusade, so this is ineffect for a long time really, unless it's expiration is mandatory, then we could re-write it, focus on making easily defendable boarders. or if all it takes to amend this is an edict then:

Edcit 7.X Edict E1.7 shall be re-written to read "... This Edict does not apply to Marseille, Ragusa, (OOC:anything else you want to add, Krakow? Ajaccio or/and Caligari?) and Breslau, nor does it apply..."

[econ21]

Swabia is so uninfluential overall ~:(

Totals:
Empire: 5
Swabia: 10 (didn't count tws as he hasn't been active)

I noticed that. Why not suggest to Ignoramus that he make xdeathfire Count of Metz? He's been a long stayer so it's appropriate. It's only a +1, I know but still. (He should get an avatar pretty soon.)

[TinCow]

Edict E1.1 is the crusade, so this is ineffect for a long time really, unless it's expiration is mandatory, then we could re-write it, focus on making easily defendable boarders. or if all it takes to amend this is an edict then:

Edcit 7.X Edict E1.7 shall be re-written to read "... This Edict does not apply to Marseille, Ragusa, (OOC:anything else you want to add, Krakow? Ajaccio or/and Caligari?) and Breslau, nor does it apply..."

I think that should work perfectly fine.

[Stuperman]

ok, I'm working on something, hopefully we'll have some legislation in a few hours.

Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Ituralde, OverKnight, econ21, check your PM's

[Ignoramus]

We could always form a new Duchy. I know this would be unpopular, but it would represent the "fragmentation" of the Holy Roman Empire.

Saxony would be a plausable candidate.

[OverKnight]

Welcome to the race, Ignoramus! :2thumbsup:

Uncontested elections are boring. . .

Of course, now I get to go "negative" :evilgrin:

Edit: Or others, quicker on the draw, will do it.

[Ignoramus]

I know, in Sigismund's election it turned out that I made a big speech and secret agreements all for nothing.

[Stuperman]

Originally I was opposed to the polish-french campaigns, but at most we would take 10 new territories, which would still keep us at 31, well beow the 45 victory threshold. but I have some IC objections :p

Edit: Ignoramus, check your PM's!

[OverKnight]

While I'm thinking of it. . .Ignoramus I don't think you should be Chancellor if you haven't finished some of the battle reports from your previous administration. :laugh4:

I hate to crack the whip :whip: but we've still got some battle reports due. I'm not looking for War and Peace, just a description to fill out the chronology.

I'm not sure where Placeholder is on the map, but it's heavily contested territory.

[Ignoramus]

I only "forgot two battle reports".

The first one was very minor(although the Milanese Duke was killed), but my screenshots got deleted.

The second one had no fighting(due to my amry being inaccessable0.

I am writing up the Battle of Metz, so don't worry.(I forgot to put a placeholder in, though.

[Warluster]

Did you receive my PM Ignoramus about the after battle words thing?

[Ignoramus]

Yes, I'll work on the story.

[Warluster]

When your done can you PM it to me so i can add my bit to it?

[econ21]

Could whoever becomes next Chancellor keep a record of the battles, similar to what we did in Wots and what I'm doing in my English AAR?

What we need are the HRE general's name, enemy faction, date and place, army sizes and the losses (casualties + captured), plus outcome (e.g. heroic victory). It might be fun to record the type of battle (e.g. attacker in field battle) as I'm doing in the English AAR.

Generals should be able to provide this information to the Chancellor if they take a screenshot of the post-battle results information.

[Ituralde]

Regarding the Jihad. I'm sorry but it has completely slipped my mind.
I believe its goal was even Constantinople itself. It was called out some time ago, where I was busy planning the defense of the Empire on multiple fronts.

[TinCow]

It would be good if the Dukes could maintain the first post in their Duchy threads with an up to date list of their members and their titles.

Done.

[AussieGiant]

Back to the excom thing.

I think it is proving extremely useful to see just how hard it is to get back into the good books.

Hopefully when we finally get back into the good side fo the force :) we can remember how hard it was to resolve this and make sure we don't do it again.

I'm flat out at work in China so I don't really have time to draft edicts.

Two for me would be a merchant based edict and a priest based edict.

I have outlined the merchant and priest versions in the Austrian chamber thread.

Althought "OK" has pointed out that merchant management is under the control of the Chancellor and does not require an edict.

[econ21]

I looked at the finance graph and it seems that all the factions absorbed the 100k we gave them at the last Diet without a problem except Spain, Russia and Denmark. So I've added another 100k to those factions that were able to spend the money. I've left Russia and Denmark alone, as they are relative backwaters and may not have the means to spend the money. I gave Spain 50k as I was a afraid if I did not, she might get steamrollered by her neighbours.

The file is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1180-1.zip

Unfortunately, I am using the unofficial 1.2 patch. I don't think that will cause problems but if the next Chancellor is worried about that, they can always play on from Ituralde's save and make the additions themselves using the console command as explained in the FAQ in the first post of this thread.

EDIT: Any governors who have not done so should post their build queues in the Chancellor and Governors Reports thread, otherwise the Chancellor will use his discretion.

[TinCow]

On a related matter, I noticed that Sinan had very positive things to say about giving the AI boatloads of money to increase the difficulty. I don't think we need to go quite as overboard as he did, but I'm happy we're doing this.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1517946&postcount=28

[FactionHeir]

I think I started a mini guide on how to improve difficulty at the citadel and giving the AI money was part of it :) My own campaigns are quite a bit more fun now although the AI is still weak.

[TevashSzat]

It looks like to me that Edicts 7.2 and 7.3 are going to be close and both might pass. From my interpretation, 7.2 means that violence is allowed while 7.3 says that violence is not. Should both be passed, won't they contradict themselves and if so, which Edict will become the followed one?

[FactionHeir]

The one with better ratio

[OverKnight]

I can't seem to load 1180-1 (econ21's money added save) with my copy of the game. I have not installed the leaked patch though. Of course, I really don't want to install the leaked patch as I downloaded the game from direct2drive and don't want to monkey around with it too much.

This might pose problems if the PBM starts being played on 1.1 and 1.2* versions of the game.

Can anyone else confirm save difficulties?

[TinCow]

It looks like to me that Edicts 7.2 and 7.3 are going to be close and both might pass. From my interpretation, 7.2 means that violence is allowed while 7.3 says that violence is not. Should both be passed, won't they contradict themselves and if so, which Edict will become the followed one?

I don't see a conflict between them. What in 7.3 says that violence is not allowed?

[econ21]

I can't seem to load 1180-1 (econ21's money added save) with my copy of the game.

OK, let's forget about that save. Do you think you can add the money yourself? It is very simple - open the consol, type "add_money 100000, hungary" etc. (You can get your previous command back using the upward cursor, so all you have to do is change the faction names.) The list of proper faction names is in a spoiler in the FAQ. Exclude russia and denmark, and only give spain 50k not 100k. It only takes about a minute or less.


This might pose problems if the PBM starts being played on 1.1 and 1.2* versions of the game.

I agree. We should only play 1.1. I think I am the only criminal with the 1.2* version and I will reinstall 1.1 if I get into any battles.

[OverKnight]

Yup, I went ahead and added the money as you layed out. It worked, as the financial ratings for all of them shot up. I wonder what city the French will buy this time? :laugh4:

Should I upload the save?

[TinCow]

I agree. We should only play 1.1. I think I am the only criminal with the 1.2* version and I will reinstall 1.1 if I get into any battles.

I have both installed, 1.1 for KOTR and 1.2 because I couldn't resist the improvements any longer.

[econ21]

Should I upload the save?

Well, given the current election results, it will probably not be necessary but you could do so for completeness.

[AussieGiant]

You guy's :laugh4:

You just can't help yourselves can you.

downloading a leaked patch from your favourite games developer...how could you??!!:2thumbsup:

So I guess this mean OK is in the Big House hey?!

[OverKnight]

Maybe, I just hope the Diet doesn't use Diebold voting machines. Still only eleven people have voted so. . .:sweatdrop:

I'll upload the save. Leopold is currently next to some Hungarians in the Zagreb region. I'm thinking that will be the first battle of 1180. Since I'll be in bed when the election is over, once the polls are closed and if Otto wins, I invite Ituralde to download the save and get at it.

Starting off with battles, we can worry about how the edicts pan out later.

Edit: This will also give people a bit more time to get their queues in.

[econ21]

downloading a leaked patch from your favourite games developer...how could you??!!

Like TC, I found the improvements just too good to hold off on. I'm not even sure it was technically leaked - rather it was distributed officially, but not all the distribution channels were stopped in time when Sega/CA tried to pull it. They are not coming down heavy on those who have downloaded the patch - they have even been asking for feedback!


We're wise enough to know that this file is being distributed and how futile it would be to try and stop it. Canute couldn't stop the sea and we can't stop the internet, so we're not silly enough to think that we can stop it's spread.

So, well done to those who found it but please recognise that we think there are problems and we cannot support it.

If you feel inclined to grab this file, it's up to you and if you have feedback we'd be silly not to listen - but keep in mind that we think it's flawed so make your own decision.

[TinCow]

Heh, I got it off of Filefront, didn't even need a torrent.

[AussieGiant]

I was being a little "tongue in cheek" there econ.

Have the 2handed bug and the shield bug been fixed in this version?

[OverKnight]

I uploaded the save, the money has been added, Leopold is set to attack the Hungarians, but no other changes have been made from the original 1180 save.

I'll PM Ituralde with the same info from this post and my last one.

Expect IC stuff after the polls have closed, I've woken up and I've had some coffee.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1180-2.zip

[econ21]

I was being a little "tongue in cheek" there econ.

I know, it's just as a forum staffer, I did not want to appear too piratical. :pirate2:


Have the 2handed bug and the shield bug been fixed in this version?

Yup - that's why I spent 24 hours downloading the thing on torrent! It's probably better in other respects too, but those were the two bugs that had stopped me playing M2TW solo.

[AussieGiant]

I know, it's just as a forum staffer, I did not want to appear too piratical. :pirate2:



Yup - that's why I spent 24 hours downloading the thing on torrent! It's probably better in other respects too, but those were the two bugs that had stopped me playing M2TW solo.

Two very good points as usual econ.

The fact that both those bugs have been ironed out may have me do the same next week when I get back home.

I have all but forgotten that you are a mod...is that a bad thing?:sweatdrop:

[FactionHeir]

Actually antitraits are fixed too.

I don't really mind waiting for the official one as I can't be bothered to reinstall etc since I get my new laptop (well new as in ordered in January) in two week's time.

In the meantime I'm mainly using 1.2 files for campaign and battle AI and stuff. Not that there has been much change.

Btw, I plan to get a new fix version out by saturday or sunday. Exams finish tomorrow.

[edit]
Btw, edit 7.3 is much more radical than edict 7.2 after some review. It allows "any means" to achieve reconciliation. Only limiting factor is the charter but since we are already excommed, there is nothing in the way of papal whacking. Heinrich would love that edict haha.
Hmmm on second thought, Heinrich actually proposed it!

Oh, and that means: could someone edit my vote for 7.3 to be yes instead of no? :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Heh, I meant nothing of the sort when I proposed it. :saint: Seriously.

[Ituralde]

Battle is fought and won, give you fresh start in the morning Overknight!

The Battle report is up too along with another one. Now the only one missing is the Fall of Budapest.

[OverKnight]

Alright, a good start Ituralde. :2thumbsup:

Let me get some caffeine and I'll take a look at the new save and post IC.

Stuperman, when would you be available to bring the fury of the Empire down on the Venetians?

[Stuperman]

Asap, definately tonight (well noght for me) , next 4-6 hours would be perfect, then I'll be out of commission for 24/36 hours.

[OverKnight]

OK, I'll upload the save now. I'll send you a PM with the details. IC stuff can wait a bit (I'm writing my address to the Diet as we speak).

[AussieGiant]

Asap, definately tonight (well noght for me) , next 4-6 hours would be perfect, then I'll be out of commission for 24/36 hours.

No pressure Stuperman!! :laugh4:

That's my brand spanking new city you're protecting there so "No pressure" , just win baby!!

I'll Fedex you some beer if you toast em!!

[OverKnight]

Of course Stuperman went offline as soon as I posted the save and PMed him. I'm sure he'll be back.

Oh well, this just gives me more time to assemble my diabolical plan for world domination. :evilgrin:

The best part of being Chancellor? I don't have to post build queues.
The worst part of being Chancellor? I have to sort out everyone else's build queues.

AG, I guess the good thing about not having an avatar is that you're invulnerable, i.e. you can't die in battle.

[AussieGiant]

Of course Stuperman went offline as soon as I posted the save and PMed him. I'm sure he'll be back.

Oh well, this just gives me more time to assemble my diabolical plan for world domination. :evilgrin:

The best part of being Chancellor? I don't have to post build queues.
The worst part of being Chancellor? I have to sort out everyone else's build queues.

AG, I guess the good thing about not having an avatar is that you're invulnerable, i.e. you can't die in battle.

This is true OK, but I don't remember the last time a character died in battle...do you? :)

I'm sure barring a shock development Stuperman will pound the Venitians to pieces with between 20 to 40% casualties based on how well he did.

Damn to I want Arnold to "Come of Age"

I think the little punk is about 6 now. Is that right OK? Personally I can't believe I'm going to play a character from Austria call Arnold. That is funny as hell for me.

[Ignoramus]

My PM box has space now OverKnight.

[OverKnight]

@AG, the odd aging mechanics are confusing but I think Arnold will come of age in 20 turns.

A long time to wait but then he can answer the question "What is best in life?" by replying, "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women!"

[AussieGiant]

God that is still a long way away.

I guess that is halfway through your Chancellorship...or is that in the next Chancellors time?

[OverKnight]

The end of the next Chancellor's term :shame: . . .you might want to consider a temp avatar if one becomes available.

[Stuperman]

won the battle, took TONS of prisoners, executed them, didn;t think we needed the money, and didn;t want a half stack of venetians wandering around.

save:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1180-5.rar

[OverKnight]

Good Job Stuperman, I guess the Reich is not in a charitable mood this year :evilgrin:.

I'm taking back the save. I don't think there'll be any more battles this year but we'll see.

Off to negotiate with the Pope.

[Warluster]

If someone was to attack and take Marseilles (sp?) will it go to Swabia?

[Warluster]

Anoter question:

OverKnight, can I assemble a army and attack Rheims.

I know its against the Imperial Diet, but it could be the next big 'scandal' of the game, adding a touch of flavour. SO can I attack RHeims?

[Ignoramus]

Warluster, I don't think it would be wise for you to go against the Diet.

Because:

You're the Prinz. When Henry eventually dies, you will become Kaiser. This means than not only do you get more influence in the Diet, but you also get to dictate who gets what settlement. You don't want to get yourself killed trying to storm Rheims. Not only because of yourself, but for Swabia. Currently, Swabia holds the Imperial line. Now as Duke of Swabia, I have no desire to see the line go to another Duchy. Just think, if you have heirs, then your legacy will be complete.

[OverKnight]

Warluster, who was the last head of the Swabian Household Army? That might effect what you can do.

Why don't you and Ignoramus hammer something out. The Swabians have a super-secret bat cave that the rest of us aren't privy to, why don't you use that? Usually rebellion isn't planned in the open. :juggle2:

This is karma getting back at me for Otto going on that adventure with Heinrich. Oh for the days when I was a conspirator. . .

[Warluster]

Darn it, moan moan whinge whinge

Okay.

ANd how about the MArsellies thing?

[Ignoramus]

Don't worry, I can't afford to rebel. I'm not a simple elector anymore. A Duke has too much to lose.

[Ignoramus]

I just had an idea. It is actually to possible to have a sort of civil war.

If, for example, Conrad Salier wanted to rebel, then he could "rebel"(by posting in the Diet thread) and then he would simply dictate his movements(or ask the Chancellor for the save game and move himself). If he encountered a "loyal" army, you could organise a multiplayer game with as close as possible to the real armies present. Then the Chancellor disbands the relevant units from the two armies. If an avatar dies, the Chancellor could use the cheat to kill an avatar, thus in some way representing a civil war.

What do people think?

[OverKnight]

I have completed 1180, I have not pressed end turn in case I've missed something.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1520702&postcount=94

I will continue on tonight.

[AussieGiant]

Hi Ignoramus and Warluster,

My suggestion is to do this by Private Mail between just the two of you.

There is a fairly robust set of mechanisms in the game to let you two scheme away and determine what YOU both think everyone would do and plan accordingly.

You could ask GH by PM as he was a master. Keep in mind he was the Kaiser though :laugh4:

Asking about the idea "out in the open" like this just lets other groups get the jump on you.

Keep in mind you have role play this based on your characters for the best results in the game.

And a final warning. This game has a number of strong personalities involved so things might not go the way you plan it. Given the governmental charters in place you need to know your stuff if you want to do something like this, because you could find yourself on a boat to Western Africa.

Have fun :beam:

[Warluster]

Darn it, now I realise my mistake! Well anyway, its out of the picutre easily now.

[FactionHeir]

I think you going off on a rampage could work. You are the Prince and as heir to the throne you are pretty much immune too. Just don't die fighting is all :)

Interesting thought Ignoramus on rebellion. Not sure whether it is really good to do it though. Actually on the other hand, what would we do if the game decides one of our avatars is to go rebel in the literaly sense? Had that happen once in my SP campaign with a 4 loyalty family member.

[econ21]

I couldn't see any standing orders for the Household Armies in the Chancellor and Governors Reports thread. Dukes, that means you are giving the Chancellor carte blanche to do what he wants with your men! Maybe it is not so important with the Reich assuming a defensive posture or maybe you are relying on Chancellor to be very solicitous of your views, but it seems a little remiss.

[AussieGiant]

Ituralde!!

Give Otto a few standing orders for the AHA my friend!!

We can't have the AHA standing around like a road work crew, scratching their asses and digging holes in the ground all day.

[TinCow]

Yep, the Franconians, Swabians, and Austrians can benefit from giving orders for their armies. All 3 have territories nearby that they can take in accordance with the recent legislation. Ulrich H&#252;mmel is complaining about the French on Swabian soil when he could get rid of them himself by taking the SHA into the field. He could even attack Marseilles as 'retribution' if he wanted to.

Remember, the Household Armies were created so that the Houses could take care of themselves. If you don't give orders for them, you have no grounds for complaint about your own borders and defense!

[AussieGiant]

I thought we were limited in taking further provinces TC?

Is that not the case?

[StoneCold]

But as TC says, the recent edict passed allows for the taking of a few province and those only, unless some new neighbour decided to declare war with HRE, eg. the Danes or the Sicilians.

About joining the PBE as a backbencher, I will have to decline for the moment. Thanks for the offer, but my thesis and defense is due soon, and I am swamp at the moment, only enough time to pop in to read some stories, battle reports. Not enough to scheme... :P

Keep the stories flowing. :)

[OverKnight]

Let me qoute the HA rules:

4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.

Any HA orders I recieve I will do my best to implement, but as my term has already begun, I reserve the right not to follow them.

Swabia is probably the only house that is unsatisfied with the moves so far, and if they wish to issue orders I'll do the best I can with them. The SwHA is a bit battered at the moment though, but will be recieving some reinforcements from Staufen in 1182.

Swabia might also want to consider that the French may make another bribe attempt, and these are better resisted when an avatar is present.

Just my two cents, though I should be asleep.

[FactionHeir]

Except if the avatar gets bribed away with em :p

At the moment, Ragusa, Marseille, Breslau and ANY English province are up for grabs. Swabia can go for both France and England really. Sea Invasion to Nottingham anyone?

[FactionHeir]

Since I'm currently still working on the files:

Need someone to answer my question from before:
What happens if the AI manages to bribe away one of our avatars or one of avatars decides to go rebel without us wanting to?

Or: Do you want me to add in a trigger so that HRE family members always have 10 loyalty to prevent that from happening? (That would probably remove the influence gained from loyalty points for diet votes)

[econ21]

Need someone to answer my question from before:
What happens if the AI manages to bribe away one of our avatars or one of avatars decides to go rebel without us wanting to?

My instinct is that we should ride with the punches, but the Chancellor should factor that in when moving generals just as you would under SP. It's probably wise not to put a very low loyalty general near an enemy diplomat - especially just after a Diet session when each AI faction has 100k to spend. And it might be a good idea to give low loyalty generals some battles so they feel more appreciated and have more loyalty. FLYdude and perhaps the Swabians seem the most vulnerable potentially.

[FactionHeir]

My instinct is that we should ride with the punches, but the Chancellor should factor that in when moving generals just as you would under SP. It's probably wise not to put a very low loyalty general near an enemy diplomat - especially just after a Diet session when each AI faction has 100k to spend. And it might be a good idea to give low loyalty generals some battles so they feel more appreciated and have more loyalty. FLYdude and perhaps the Swabians seem the most vulnerable potentially.

OK left it out.


New version of KOTRfix available. KOTRfix goes 1.21 :)

Link: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix121.rar


As usual I was too lazy to make a detailed list of changes, but in general, I added triggers for a few traits that still were lacking triggers (or didn't have a lot) and changed the percentage chances for some others. Also reduced the amount of GrowingConvictions priest-turned-heretics get and instead have added triggers for heretics and witches that if they suffer a denouncement attempt and were not decounced, they get a decent chance of obtaining said trait. So in general you will see a lot less piety 6-10 heretics running around and mostly piety 3-5.
Lastly, there is now a consequence for standing next to heretics (a very small one, so don't camp next to em for too long)
If someone is really bored, they can use a comparison program and run a comparison between the default 1.2 character trait file and mine. Probably will take hours :)

Btw, you can get rid of the ancillary_enums file. Realized I didn't change anything there and there is no change from it between 1.1 and 1.2. As such, the file is not included in this version either.

[AussieGiant]

Let me qoute the HA rules:

4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.

Any HA orders I recieve I will do my best to implement, but as my term has already begun, I reserve the right not to follow them.

Swabia is probably the only house that is unsatisfied with the moves so far, and if they wish to issue orders I'll do the best I can with them. The SwHA is a bit battered at the moment though, but will be recieving some reinforcements from Staufen in 1182.

Swabia might also want to consider that the French may make another bribe attempt, and these are better resisted when an avatar is present.

Just my two cents, though I should be asleep.

Reserving the right not to follow Ducal orders because there has been a delay in issuing their own orders seems a bit harsh "OK". As a technicality your correct but....you know what I mean??

[OverKnight]

Just because I reserve the right, doesn't mean I'm going to do it.

The only orders for the HAs I have so far are Leopold's and I will follow those.

[AussieGiant]

Fair enough OK.

Although now Ignoramus has clandestinely given you instruction.

[OverKnight]

Ignoramus, if you've got movement orders send them again.

AG and Warluster, please take your discussion out of the Chancellor report section and move it to the Diet or PMs.

[Warluster]

Just a quick reply, wasn't gonna continue too much more.

[AussieGiant]

Ignoramus, if you've got movement orders send them again.

AG and Warluster, please take your discussion out of the Chancellor report section and move it to the Diet or PMs.

Will do.

[Kagemusha]

Where has Duchy of Franconia thread disappeared?:embarassed:

[AussieGiant]

Where has Duchy of Franconia thread disappeared?:embarassed:

I'm putting it down to Polish Pigs...

...other than that explanation I have no idea.:inquisitive:

[Dutch_guy]

I'm putting it down to Polish Pigs...

...other than that explanation I have no idea.:inquisitive:

I believe the activity level of the throne room made it drop to the second page.

No worries though, it's back up again :beam:

:balloon2:

[AussieGiant]

I believe the activity level of the throne room made it drop to the second page.

No worries though, it's back up again :beam:

:balloon2:

Good job Dutch guy!!:2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

We've got two battles waiting.

FLYdude has chased down a small Polish force south of Stettin.

Dutch_guy is facing a larger battle versus three Polish armies, though only two can support each other.

Here's the save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1182.zip

Ideally, whoever is online first will get the save, notify us that he got it, fight, upload new save and then PM the second person with a link to it.

I'm sending out a PM to both.

Good Luck. :2thumbsup:

Edit: My latest reports for 1182

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1521980&postcount=98
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1522028&postcount=103

[AussieGiant]

Nice write up "OK"

You certainly have a talent pulling all those threads together.

Between you, TC and GH ww really have a talented bunch of writers.

[OverKnight]

Thanks AG.

I'm not sure if you've seen the Godfather, but I had the ending montage in mind when I wrote the story. I'd thought I give people something to think about while waiting for the battles.

Of course I'm completely boned if this doesn't work. :sweatdrop:

[AussieGiant]

You make me laugh!! You've blown a bit of cash there fella so I hope it works...and boned you might be if it does not pan out.

Is there any "in game" reference to this working or are you just using common sense that if we are allies to the country that wins the next papal election then we have a good chance?

I've seen the Godfather a few times, so I see where your coming from.

[OverKnight]

I'm not going to say where I got the idea from, I want to leave it out there unresolved until we have an answer in game. I wouldn't want to spoil it for anyone.

I would also appreciate if others keep their OOC spoilers to themselves. I really do want to build tension, to have it be an unknown.

Will it work? There's a long list of things that could go wrong. I'll leave it at that.

Sorry.

[AussieGiant]

I understand completely. I had to ask because I am already very curious :inquisitive:

I certainly will never OOC spoil something IC.

I also guess the boy's are on "24 Hour" clock to complete their battles or they will be auto resolved?

[OverKnight]

They're on the clock, but it's 48 hours. I hope by setting up two battles at once, it'll speed things up a bit. We'll see.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hahahahahahaha @ last story

You have been taught well, my son.

[FactionHeir]

Just wondering if those fighting battles (and the chancellor) have updated to the new version yet?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Stuperman, I think you put your placeholder in the wrong thread.

[Stuperman]

Whoops, thanks for catching that GH and FH

[flyd]

I guess I've gotten to this double-battle first.

[Dutch_guy]

I have the save, the battle will be fought at about 1400 a clock Dutch time.

:balloon2:

[OverKnight]

The Chancellor's report has been updated to include information on FLYdude's victory.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1522028&postcount=103

Dutch_guy has the save. Once I have it back, there are few actions left to take and then we will continue to 1184.

[OverKnight]

Hahahahahahaha @ last story

You have been taught well, my son.

Ah thanks GH, the student becomes the master. :laugh4:

[Northnovas]

I see a the College of Cardinals are voting again. I would recommend voting for the favourite and but the offer up again after the election. Maybe we will get a better chance of a ceasefire and since we voted for him it may better our chances.

[OverKnight]

1182 has concluded and the latest report is up:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1523524&postcount=105

The Swabians have another avatar as shown in the report (sorry Austria :no: ).

[econ21]

The Swabians have another avatar as shown in the report

What is his new name? (Friedrich what?)

xdeathfire, he is yours if you'd like him.

[FactionHeir]

Ehm you just adopted him without asking me?

[OverKnight]

His name is Friedrich Scherer. An interesting genesis for this avatar, no? I find it a bit amusing that he is dutifully religious. . .

https://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6995/fredjl0.jpg

Edit: I adopted him because there was an active Swabian player without an avatar. If he had been assigned to Franconia or Bavaria I would have refused. I believe this is within my rights. You still have three spots for your own kids.

[econ21]

Ehm you just adopted him without asking me?

It was a man of the hour promotion, so I don't suppose OK would have known who was adopting him before he made his decision. But I don't think Chancellors have ever asked other players if they want to adopt. It would slow the game down and we do need more avatars. In this case, it works out well because xdeathfire has been waiting a while. He was actually above both you and the reincarnated Ignoramus in the playlist.

[TevashSzat]

Sure, I'll take him.

Kinda funny too seeing as how the man leading the army that killed the pope is dutifully religious

[OverKnight]

Eh. . .maybe he's from the Heinrichian branch of Catholicism that believes that the true Popes are the ones selected by the Kaiser. After all Filippus was not approved of by the Empire, he was selected over our choice of Otterbach I believe.

Congratulations on your avatar. Now, should he be sent to the Swabian front or to assist Leopold? I still feel bad that Austria is getting shafted.

[Warluster]

The Swabian Front! We bloody short of players over in Swabia, only me and Ignoramus!

[OverKnight]

Actually, with the Crusade gone, each House has two avatars, except Austria, in it's territory.

[Ignoramus]

Have you uploaded the latest save?(After the Papal election)

[OverKnight]

I'm at work. . .so no.

I also want to build a little suspense.

No spoilers.

Sorry. :no:

[econ21]

Actually, with the Crusade gone, each House has two avatars, except Austria, in it's territory.

If Austria needs a second general to defend itself, it perhaps could arrange a loan from Swabia as it did with Franconia. But ultimately the movement of avatars is the Chancellor's perogative.

[FactionHeir]

Hmmmm I think we should have voted for Herden actually. We would have had enough votes to win...

Sicily as allies would have spent both their votes on us (instead of 1 each which it does if you don't vote for yourself)