View Full Version : Patch 1.2 Release/Delay Discussion
The patch has been delayed; here's the official statement ~sapi
Hi all.
Well, what an interesting 12 hours we've had!
You've seen threads and word is spreading that there is something going on with the patch. So, here's the official word.
We've been testing the life out of this patch for days and days and at the eleventh hour some bugs have come up that we simply cannot fix in the time allowed.
After extensive testing of the patch, the Sega QA department discovered late last night that there may still be some unresolved issues in the final build of the patch. Specifically we are focussing on the Battle AI causing us concern under certain conditions. They are also investigating a potential crash bug that may have crept into the code, that is as yet, unverified. QA have requested extra time to verify this with the CA team in Australia; so we can fully regress the bugs in tandem with their QA department and rectify any issues with the code.
Given the level of chat and comments that you guys are good enough to send us, we are aware of the anticipation you guys have but we would consider it unforgiveable if we were to release a patch knowing that there are a number of potential issues with it.. Therefore, given the choice of two evils, we've taken the one that we hope will at least indicate some sensitivity to you guys and your expectations.
In conjunction with this we've also seen that a version of the patch is doing the rounds. This is a good old fashioned leak - we've tried to plug all gaps but owing to a less than secure url being held by one of our file mirrors, some of you guys have been clever enough to find a backdoor and grab the patch.
Kudos to you for your ingenuity, but be aware that this is not the release patch and CA and SEGA are not supporting this. This is not an official release and it is the very same patch that has the bugs mentioned above.
We're wise enough to know that this file is being distributed and how futile it would be to try and stop it. Canute couldn't stop the sea and we can't stop the internet, so we're not silly enough to think that we can stop it's spread.
So, well done to those who found it but please recognise that we think there are problems and we cannot support it.
If you feel inclined to grab this file, it's up to you and if you have feedback we'd be silly not to listen - but keep in mind that we think it's flawed so make your own decision.
We want to apologise - we've been wiping egg off our faces all morning and so we throw ourselves at the mercy of you guys in the hope that you'll understand. We understand your disappointment - we're disappointed too - so stay with us while we try and fix things.
We can confirm that Update 2 will be available for download on Thursday April 5. The update is currently in the final stages of testing at SEGA and we're not anticipating any further issues that will delay its release. Between now and Thursday , SEGA will be working to secure as many mirrors as possible in order to ease the downloading process.
Regarding the content of the update - we've had some issues with the implementation of some of our intended plans for the hotseat mode and these were continuing to delay the release of this update. So, rather than delay any further, we've decided to continue our work on this and include a fully implemented version of this mode in the recently announced Kingdoms expansion.
Once again, many thanks for your continued patience whilst awaiting this update. We all hope you have a great time with your updated version of Medieval II over the Easter break.
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/12648/t/Med-II-Update-2-Release-Date.html
Hollerbach
04-03-2007, 12:23
arrghh! It has to come out the day I go away for a week :furious3:
Still, nice that the date is finally locked in. I wonder if this will invalidate the problem fixer mods? hmm might have to re-install.
If anyone gets hard information about whether the game is savegame compatible, please post. We have 16 PBM players with something of an interest in that issue. :sweatdrop:
Im not sure it will be given the VnV fixes, and other things. But it might be.
Still, nice that the date is finally locked in. I wonder if this will invalidate the problem fixer mods? hmm might have to re-install.
Im wondering the same thing, unless there is something extrodinary that effects SP, I am going to stick with LTC mod. It fixes just about everything, and I am to far into a campaign to trash it now.
I'll be anxious to see a readme/details on what the patch does to see if there is more in there then the fixes we all already know about.
I for one will be grabbing this ASAP, regardless :yes:
I for one will be grabbing this ASAP, regardless :yes:
I'm definately going to download it as well, but if I cant continue my current campaign on it then Im holding off on install Ive got a real good hungarian campaign going and just hate to end it with a reinstall.
Im glad the patch is coming soon though, it will make a lot of people happy, and will certainly spur additional modding.
With my mod you can paly both as it doesn't affect any of the vanilla files. So just use the LTC icon to play LTC, and the M2Tw icon to play 1.2. Im hopefuly going to have a 1.2 version of 2.1 out soon after the patch once i've done enough balance testing.
Afro Thunder
04-03-2007, 12:56
Ironic how I downloaded the ProblemFixer Mod just yesterday. :wall:
FactionHeir
04-03-2007, 12:59
Im not sure it will be given the VnV fixes, and other things. But it might be.
Other things might be an issue, but I wouldn't expect vnv to have an impact on compatibility. Will check that out though.
Well i know that messing with VnV's could mess things up in RTW, but that might just have been from adding new traits.
V1.14 will be out ASAP after the patch, as I, (like lusted), don't expect them to fix everything to my satisfaction so like lusted I'll probably combined the patch and my ProblemFixer Pure together to produce a patch compatible version. In particular I expect a great many trait errors and issues to still be present in the patch, likewise I expect the same with ancillaries, and if a few other things aren't out I'd be surprised.
Obviously it's still going to severely reduce the importance of ProblemFixer Pure as many of the problems it fixes will now be fixed by CA. On the flip side I fully expect people to have a long list of complaints about the V1.2 patch changes which i can hopefully fix in my ProblemFixer Pure.
FactionHeir
04-03-2007, 13:06
Well i know that messing with VnV's could mess things up in RTW, but that might just have been from adding new traits.
Yup, new vnvs would cause issues as the patch does not include your own vnvs by default and loading the game will thus cause issues.
I'll probably compare my vnv files with the new CA ones and pick out differences firstly.
@ Carl, in my case im likely going to be removing several bits from my mod as 1.2 fixes them, and i need to rebalance all the units as 1.2 fixes the shield bug and changes cav charges. I expect to have less bug fixes in my mod, so it will mostly be the mod changes, instead of mod changes AND bug fixer.
Lord_hazard
04-03-2007, 13:30
I for one will be grabbing this ASAP, regardless :yes:
Me too. And with all due respect to the modders that did an fantastic job at making the game more playable, the mods were nothing more then quick fixes/alterations. Ive always been waiting for this baby.
Midnight
04-03-2007, 14:04
Excellent news - I look forward to getting a new campaign going with all the major bugs ironed out and some improved AI behaviour.
Kryptonitus
04-03-2007, 15:07
YEEEEEHHAAAAAWWWW!! This works out perfectly for me.:2thumbsup:
@ Carl, in my case I'm likely going to be removing several bits from my mod as 1.2 fixes them, and i need to re-balance all the units as 1.2 fixes the shield bug and changes Cav charges. I expect to have less bug fixes in my mod, so it will mostly be the mod changes, instead of mod changes AND bug fixer.
Ohh, i Understood that Lusted, I was just saying that come the patch their will doubtless still be things that the various bug fixers out their will still need to fix. Thus the amount of bugs that will be fixed will go down, but I'd be highly surprised if CA got them all or if new bugs aren't created that haven't been caught by the testing. So i was just pointing out that Patch 1.2 won't render bugfixer like my ProblemFixer Pure redundant. it will just give us all less to fix~:).
zstajerski
04-03-2007, 15:26
I just hope that I will be able to play vanilla again :2thumbsup:
Look forward to getting the 1.2 patch
(will need to wait until someone I know with broadband DL's and posts it to me.)
Will then do a clean install, install patch and play that for a couple of weeks before making any comments on bugs etc. (he says!)
As for mods - suggest people clearly distinguish between "bug fixing" mods and balancing issues.
Hopefully people will agree on what bugs need squashing but balance is more subjective.
Frederick_I_Barbarossa
04-03-2007, 16:18
*Does happy dance* :laugh4: :yes: :beam:
Hah hah! Finally the day is coming closer officially! Now we'll see what kind of meat we got here with that patch :2thumbsup:
YeeeeeeHaaaaaaa!!!!!
According to further responses by CA/Sega on the thread that Lusted linked to, the size is going to be about 629 MB, it will be a global release sometime on Thursday (they are trying to give a time of the release before hand), and they are working on getting as many mirror sites up as possible.
Gee, think the servers are gonna get slammed Thursday?
Lord_hazard
04-03-2007, 17:46
Oh yeah, just hope boomtown gets the patch fast so I can dl it from there.
Heh their servers are in Denmark as am I:)
Goofball
04-03-2007, 18:36
I'll probably wait a few weeks before downloading. By then people who are way more observant than I am (Lusted, Carl, Foz, I'm looking at you) will have identified all the new problems and come up with fixes for them.
That's why I love the .Org.
Thanks guys...
chilling
04-03-2007, 20:25
Hmmm the day before a bank holiday and the Mrs's birthday. Wonder if she'll mind me spending the bank holiday 'testing' the patch. :laugh4:
Caliburn
04-03-2007, 21:19
Oh no, now I might have to re-learn to outflank the enemy and deal with the enemy countering me with their cavalry ...maybe!
Seriously, though, I'm really looking forward to spearmen doing their spear thing and not die trying. And cavalry drawing their swords when the archers turn their backs and run away from them. Etc. Etc.
As for me leaving for a few days, it only means I'll be able to use a fast DSL connection to get the humongous patch. And it won't matter too much if I can't finish my recent campaign, it's starting to bog down as thing are getting huge and nobody lets me just sit back and tech up in peace. Really looking forward to this, with a great reservations of course - Rome: Total War wasn't built in a day, so I can't see Medieval being perfected in two patches.
Really wish those inaccessible places in the mountains can actually be reached this time, so I don't have to turn on the battle timer.
Greetings from a M2 Guild noobee.
Since this forum recommended I make my first post a introduction, but I couldnt figure out where, I went here. Since this is where my heart is at...right now: awaiting the 1.2 M2.
I am interested in getting started doing some modding. Any help which can point me to something more specific than twcenter, which has lots of info but gives no clue as to where to start. I would be greatful.
These q's are where I am at:
How to 'unpack"
what to unpack
why unpack
is there a manual or general guide to modding M2?
Thanks. Greg.
PS If this intro post s/b somewhere's else, please chastise me as required, and provide corrective guidance.
Greetings from a M2 Guild noobee.
Since this forum recommended I make my first post a introduction, but I couldnt figure out where, I went here. Since this is where my heart is at...right now: awaiting the 1.2 M2.
I am interested in getting started doing some modding. Any help which can point me to something more specific than twcenter, which has lots of info but gives no clue as to where to start. I would be greatful.
These q's are where I am at:
How to 'unpack"
what to unpack
why unpack
is there a manual or general guide to modding M2?
Thanks. Greg.
PS If this intro post s/b somewhere's else, please chastise me as required, and provide corrective guidance.
We have a pretty decent modding forum for each of the TW games. If you're just getting started, I suggest you explore the Learn to Mod subforum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=173).
RoadKill
04-03-2007, 21:44
Got a question for some of the modders. Just to make sure after i download 1.2 do i start the game with the LTC icon, or do i start the game wit hthe original icon?
IrishArmenian
04-03-2007, 22:01
*Does happy dance* :laugh4: :yes: :beam:
Echoed.
I toast the new patch.
Frederick_I_Barbarossa
04-03-2007, 22:08
Here Here! ~:cheers:
Echoed.
I toast the new patch.
Mhm toastéd bread (only real with an "éd")
And to pretend that I have something meaningful to contribute: SEGA should really set up a torrent download for this...
They are, Alex the SEGA rep at .com said they're setting up 4, along with 5 mirror sites for normal downloading.
Highly recommend Filefront. Amazingly fast consistent speeds without any of that signup nonsense, I try to use them where possible instead of Fileplanet (ugh).
Hmm didn't use the .com since it appended that silly --shoguntotalwar to my nick... How do you remove that by the way?
I have no idea, i just logged on one day and found it had been replaced by (l).
Heres the post:
Hi All,
As Mumbles said we're working on mirrors and such today and tomorrow in order to smooth over the release. As you can imagine this will be pretty popular so we're trying to get as many partners as possible. I am hoping for around 5 mirrors from sites I work with centrally. The code will go to all territitories in Europe so they can arrange their own mirrors, so there will be additional one's there as well.
I am also hoping to arrange 4 or so bit torrents to ease the strain on our host partners. As for the other territories, Oz and the US etc, they are being sorted out in the respective offices. I am sure we can get an update for you on their plans over the next 24 hours or so.
Cheers
Samurai
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/reply/148974/Med-II-Update-2-Release-Date.html#reply-148974
HoreTore
04-03-2007, 23:26
YeeeeeeHaaaaaaa!!!!!
According to further responses by CA/Sega on the thread that Lusted linked to, the size is going to be about 629 MB, it will be a global release sometime on Thursday (they are trying to give a time of the release before hand), and they are working on getting as many mirror sites up as possible.
Gee, think the servers are gonna get slammed Thursday?
EDIT: Hmm, I should have noticed the second page of this thread.... Post now redundant.
Check the post above HoreTore, SEGA are gonna be doing about 4 torrents.
With a bit of luck ign (games.internode.on.net) will mirror it locally - I can't see the CA brissie guys missing out on the biggest host in australia :grin2:
And if they do I can get it for free :laugh4:
With my mod you can paly both as it doesn't affect any of the vanilla files. So just use the LTC icon to play LTC, and the M2Tw icon to play 1.2. Im hopefuly going to have a 1.2 version of 2.1 out soon after the patch once i've done enough balance testing.
Good to know. I play your fun mod. :2thumbsup:
Does anybody know to which time zone are they reffering?
A day's difference is at stake here.
The pr department, iirc, is in London, so they'll be referring to their time (ie for us Aussies' it'll probably be released on friday)
Hmm didn't use the .com since it appended that silly --shoguntotalwar to my nick... How do you remove that by the way?
Is it because you're subscribed to the "shoguntotalwar" community?
Check in your profile under notifications>>subscriptions.
By the sound of it, it looks like this will be the final patch before the expansion. Let's hope it'll be a good one!
They'll be an update 3 we already know that, when that will come out we don't know.
ok it's 15minutes into thurdays in New Zealand........were's ma patch?:inquisitive:
hmmmm lusted you said thursday.....gimme ma patch :whip:
waiting...
waiting...
waiting...
waiting...
Argh.... :wall:
......it's thursday by 16min 48secs, gimme ma patch :smash:
fenir
Its midday on WEDNESDAY here in the UK. It won't be out for another day here.
Bad lusted........... :yes:
teasing me like that.....hmmmm perhaps a more specific readme?:laugh4:
fenir
Its midday on WEDNESDAY here in the UK. It won't be out for another day here.
I think he was half winding you up. Do we have a specific time for the UK release time of the patch then?
FactionHeir
04-04-2007, 13:14
I'm going to guess afternoon or evening. Experience from other games tells me devs always release patches late in the day.
Callahan9119
04-04-2007, 19:07
lol i moved on to civ4, i may give m2 a go after the patch but i have lost any faith, i was beyond annoyed that they announced the expansion before the HUGE bugs in the current version were fixed
fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice...
with a heavy heart i may say goodbye to my beloved franchise, with whom i have been a loyal consumer since 2000 ~:mecry:
i really miss those battles from tw when playing civ4...but i guess one must choose his poison :wizard:
lol i moved on to civ4, i may give m2 a go after the patch but i have lost any faith, i was beyond annoyed that they announced the expansion before the HUGE bugs in the current version were fixed
fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice...
with a heavy heart i may say goodbye to my beloved franchise, with whom i have been a loyal consumer since 2000 ~:mecry:
Let me be the first to bid you a fond farewell ! :2thumbsup:
Callahan9119
04-04-2007, 19:12
oh, dont be cruel, i'v given CA lots of money...every game they ever released in the tw series besides alexander :no:
i'v actually bought shogun, medival, and rome twice :inquisitive:
oh, dont be cruel, i'v given CA lots of money...every game they ever released in the tw series besides alexander :no:
joking mate, its all good ! Somehow i got the feeling your mug will turn up on the boards again.
Callahan9119
04-04-2007, 19:19
its ok, i love this series, why i am so critical
i bought an over 1000 dollar computer just to play the original shogun back in 2000 while i was working at burger king! just so i could play it
oh if only i could bonk CA on the head and give them good sense regarding the campaign map :smash:, then i wouldnt need to play civ4 :no:
i am interested though in seeing what they choose to fix though
Lord_hazard
04-04-2007, 20:41
They'll be an update 3 we already know that, when that will come out we don't know.
Will prob depend on how well the 1.2 patch functions.
Hopefully within a month or so.
FactionHeir
04-04-2007, 21:05
I'm betting update 3 will conincide with the expansion release date, as expansions tend to be "patched" on their own and those fixes are then released a week or so later to those who didn't buy the expansion.
Anyone know where the list of fixes/readme for Update 2 is ?
Sinan, it's posted on the total war . com site.
But CA have said......and luster........that it does not contain all the things they have changed/added/subtracted/divided or multipled.
fenir.
PS: Lusted:whip: ......i'm still waiting :smash:
oh crap.........just read the readme .........
================> you need 7 gigs of free space<===================
fenir resizing mode.........hmmmm ok going need MTW to hand over those 2 gigs of free space to MTW2.:whip:
3.91 + 2 = 5.91.........arghhhhhhhh need another hard drive. :help:
:idea2:
ok rtw drive has a spare 1.25 gig
3.91 + 2 +1.25 = woot! :beam:
ok, make it so........
fenir
To make things clear, you need 3gb of free space on your m2tw drive for patching, and a few gig on your boot drive for playing
crpcarrot
04-05-2007, 10:24
er.. sorry but which readme are you refering to??
thank you sapi, but it doesn't matter now, spent the last hour boosting and consolidating my "free space".
I have high hopes for this patch........*crosses fingers*
I keep telling myself, CA do good patches.......CA do good patches........
Patch will be out 14:00 GMT+1.
From the .com forum.
Gentlemen, start your engines....
...which is 2300 GMT+10 unless I'm much mistaken.
Drat ~:(
_Tristan_
04-05-2007, 10:58
Any idea of the best DL sites around to get the patch from...
I'm in the starting blocks... Think I will be late to work as the time of release is the time I have to go back to work....here in Paris...
Worth it anyway...
Im gonna download it from one of the torrents when it comes out, those will likely have the best speed.
Im gonna download it from one of the torrents when it comes out, those will likely have the best speed.
Ditto.
Now let's just hope the guys that does have the demo will keep the thing seeded long enough :laugh4:
Why exactly would they have multiple torrents, anyway?
Patch will be out 14:00 GMT+1.
Excellent, that's 13:00 GMT, just over an hour left now...
I hate to say it but you're a few hours off ~:(
It's roughly 11:00 GMT now
Any idea of any websites that will have it, and if i'm reading right it's going to be 3PM GMT for the release.
Why exactly would they have multiple torrents, anyway?
I don't use that service but my step brother uses something similar called Limewire, and the download speed is limited to the total bandwidth of all user with the file your downloading. More torrents is the same as more users I imagine so that means faster downloads. I'm also pretty sure theirs a limit to how many people, (physically, not bandwidth, speaking), can download from each host at once.
@Carl
Firstly, afaik 1400 gmt+1 is 1300 ie 1pm gmt
Secondly - there's no point to multiple torrents, and that's the reason I asked that question. We won't discuss limewire here, as not only is it very far off topic and mostly illegal it has absolutely nothing to do with bittorrent; but suffice to say that there can be unlimited users in a torrent swarm and so it makes no sense to have multiple torrents unless there's multiple versions of the file.
But didn't someone say that CA confirmed that there was only going to be an international english version?
I doubt they'd bother with torrents for the smaller non-english language communities...
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 12:26
Well I just looked on totalwar.com and their forum (without going through every single page though) and found no readme about the new patch (not a new one anyway that is different from the one that was posted here end of march)
What I did read though is that they found some fatal error in the patch and postponed it again? (that was posted at 3 or so am today on a German site)
Secondly - there's no point to multiple torrents, and that's the reason I asked that question. We won't discuss limewire here, as not only is it very far off topic and mostly illegal it has absolutely nothing to do with bittorrent; but suffice to say that there can be unlimited users in a torrent swarm and so it makes no sense to have multiple torrents unless there's multiple versions of the file.
My apologies then, it was my understanding that these torrent services where all file sharing services and all file sharing services used the exact same method, (and thus had the same limitations and advantages and other functionality points).
Is their any way you can explain how having multiple torrents WON'T produce faster downloads? It seems pretty obvious that having multiple sources means faster downloads, it even works that way with download sites, because no one site is getting all the strain so overall, over multiple sites it speeds things up.
Sorry for the off topic.
Patch is delayed as they found a bug (something to do with battles) in it (In Germany some people already had it and they found that bug) so wait for 5 more days or so for you all I think.
Unless that is the German patch only.
Gamershell withdrew the links to the patch, so 50% it's true.
I hate to say it but you're a few hours off ~:(
It's roughly 11:00 GMT now
Not according to every clock I own and the forums themselves, at the top of each post where it says the time and date it says "Today 11.56" for my post and then "Today 11.59" for your response, and I checked my settings and I've got it set to GMT time for the forums...
zstajerski
04-05-2007, 12:37
nnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
thats not fair
goddam :furious3:
Ihave been up the whole night sleept for some hours and I come back to the forums to read this sh*t.....
I think I'm gonna cry :embarassed:
Thought i'd clear up this GMT thing. If you're in Britain, then it is currently GMT +1 i.e. British Summer Time. So it's out at 2 in the UK.
If it's not delayed for another two months that is.
@Carl - at the risk of going OT i'll explain.
Torrents are files telling you about files. You download these files, ie the patch, from other users with them. Thus the torrent is just a means of accessing other people with teh file (through a tracker, but I won't go into that).
As such, having two torrents is pointless, as the number of people wanting the patch will be the same.
Having, 30 people on one torrent and 70 on another would actually be slower for both than 100 on the one.
Back on topic, does anyone have a link to an official release stating that the patch has been delayed?
Why exactly would they have multiple torrents, anyway?
Maybe they just meant multiple seeds?
Edit: Hmm according to the German site 4players.de (which is I think one of the hosts for the patch), it will be delayed again because of some bugs.
Durallan
04-05-2007, 12:52
apparently theyre on german gaming sites and some people who did get the patch from jolt before it crashed said that it was crashing on them so it is likely that this is true. Having said that I ordered CnC 3 Tiberium wars, special collectors edition and because its a public holiday tomorrow and they don't deliver on weekends I will be waiting till wednesday next week to get it. So I have to wait a loooong time for it too so waiting longer for medieval 2 1.2 patch is no fuss for me. I was looking forward to 4 days of medieval 2 patched, but I should probably do some work instead ;)
The only thing that irritates me is that a delay at this stage is a 5 day delay (tomorrow's Good Friday, then a weekend, so the first day of retesting is monday)
Still, better to get it working than not.
Back on topic, does anyone have a link to an official release stating that the patch has been delayed?
Hey Sapi,
I was browsing the official forums and there is no "official release" that the patch has been delayed.
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/12648/t/Med-II-Update-2-Release-Date.html?page=16
the last few pages of this thread have a few members making the claim of the incident with german players as Durallan describes
Thanks; I'll have a read later.
In the mean time, I'm sure none of us here want this thread to mirror the .com in tems of CA bashing ~:whip:
You know what would be neat?
An offical statement from CA would be neat.
Wouldn't that be neat?
I try to be patient and not complain, but I'm starting to wonder which orifice their collective head is up.
To be fair, though, If the patch HAS been delayed AGAIN at the last minute, I'd be hiding under my desk instead of posting, if I were them. ^_^
Thanks; I'll have a read later.
In the mean time, I'm sure none of us here want this thread to mirror the .com in tems of CA bashing ~:whip:
Why not :laugh4:
I mean, it's their official forums, after all.
Anyways, if it's really "crashing the game every time" as somebody claimed this really makes me wonder if there's something afoot with the localisation, because such a thing ould have been caught in testing otherwise - or the QA is really completely useless, which I refuse to believe :inquisitive:
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 13:05
Yeah, I don't know how official the mirror sites' disclosures are but I would think that they are for real. Its not the 1st anymore anyway.
Btw, where was my hammer?
[edit]
alpaca, CA usually tests only by using auto resolve for battles so it could be easily missed by them :p
[edit2]
Anyone taking bets that someone - anyone - told their girlfriend that they would be busy this extended weekend and are now hitting their heads on their tables that the patch won't be out till after? :D
alpaca, CA usually tests only by using auto resolve for battles so it could be easily missed by them :p
If thats true (I am hoping your smiley face is an indication you are joking) thats perhaps the most disturbing thing I have heard regarding MTW2 in some time.
However, there is nothing official from CA or Sega, except that the patch will be released today. Until I see something from them Im not banking on the word of a few misc posters.
Discoman
04-05-2007, 13:11
:shame: Geez, I've been waiting since they first announced the new patch. It's sad to see that I need to install the patch to isntall the game. RTW was nice and ready from the get go, honestly the 1.2 patch for it had like 3 minor fixes. I can't say I'm not angry about this, honestly it's like getting a gift early then having the giver saying you can't open it until they say so, the only think you can do is peak inside and see the potential of what could be.
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 13:13
If thats true (I am hoping your smiley face is an indication you are joking) thats perhaps the most disturbing thing I have heard regarding MTW2 in some time.
However, there is nothing official from CA or Sega, except that the patch will be released today. Until I see something from them Im not banking on the word of a few misc posters.
There was a post about it from a reputable source (was it Lusted?) in an older topic discussing the shield bug and how it was missed.
Odin, I agree with you there - we've just got to wait for an official response before giving credit to the rumours.
I really can't see how a bug like this could have been missed in testing, so maybe it is only a localisation issue as has been suggested.
EDIT: @FactionHeir - that was different. Somehow :grin2:
There was a post about it from a reputable source (was it Lusted?) in an older topic discussing the shield bug and how it was missed.
The shield bug is far more subtle than a CTD though. You only notice it first as a balancing issue.
Anyways, gamestar.de (the site of the magazine that first had a preview for Kingdoms) also claims that the patch will be delayed, so I guess we'll have to wait another week.
Oh well, back to modding then :beam:
Edit:
Aus dem Oster-Update wird ein Nachoster-Update: Publisher Sega hat uns gerade darüber informiert, dass der angekündigte zweite Patch für Medieval 2 heute nicht offiziell veröffentlicht wird. Die Testabteilung hat nach intensiven Tests einen schwerwiegenden Fehler gefunden, der dazu führt, dass das Spiel unweigerlich abstürzt. Jetzt müssen die Programmierer erst einmal auf Fehlersuche gehen. Deswegen gibt es auch noch keinen neuen Termin für den Medieval-2-Patch. Da die Warnung jetzt recht kurzfristig gekommen ist, kann es sein, dass der fehlerhafte Patch auf einige Webseiten gelangt. Man sollte ihn aber wegen des Fehlers nicht installieren.
Translation (freely translated by myself):
SEGA just informed us that the promised second patch for M2 won't be officially released today.
After thorough testing, the QA department found a fatal error that leads to an inevitable crash. Now the programmers will have to look for bugs first, so there's no new deadline for the patch. Since the warning came at very short notice, it may be that the erroneous patch will be available at some websites. Because of the before-mentioned bug, you shouldn't install it, though.
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 13:16
I second that alpaca :D Back to figuring that campaign_db_ai
In the mean time, I'm sure none of us here want this thread to mirror the .com in tems of CA bashing ~:whip:
Well, I think you know me as a calm and friendly personality by now, but it is getting really really hard to resist...
~:angry: :shrug: :sorry:
On a positive note: I'll be able to enjoy our week-end in the Ardens now, since I wont be walking around thinking about playing the finally fixed M2TW. My wife will be very happy. Thank you for making my wife happy CA :bow:
pike master
04-05-2007, 13:19
i would say that it is fixed but the entire game was balanced around it so the shield units wouldnt be overpowered. only way to find out is when the modders work with it.
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 13:23
i would say that it is fixed but the entire game was balanced around it so the shield units wouldnt be overpowered. only way to find out is when the modders work with it.
Makes you wonder what they'll do to demi lancers or broken lances then who due to fixing the shield bug would be utterly useless especially as a late game only unit.
In the mean time, I'm sure none of us here want this thread to mirror the .com in tems of CA bashing ~:whip:
I try to learn the kids some lessons, but they won't listen
I know - I'm reading the thread ~;)
The only time I'll ever bother reading the .com :grin2:
I really can't see how a bug like this could have been missed in testing, so maybe it is only a localisation issue as has been suggested.
I suspect your correct, all the info coming into the offical forums is related to a german release of the patch.
Durallan
04-05-2007, 13:34
well its 10pm here in South Aus, so I'd say that the CA guys are getting ready for bed, or still in their office code crunching. Either way I hope they and everyone else has a good easter break :)
frogbeastegg
04-05-2007, 13:35
From the .com:
Hi all.
Well, what an interesting 12 hours we've had!
You've seen threads and word is spreading that there is something going on with the patch. So, here's the official word.
We've been testing the life out of this patch for days and days and at the eleventh hour some bugs have come up that we simply cannot fix in the time allowed.
After extensive testing of the patch, the Sega QA department discovered late last night that there may still be some unresolved issues in the final build of the patch. Specifically we are focussing on the Battle AI causing us concern under certain conditions. They are also investigating a potential crash bug that may have crept into the code, that is as yet, unverified. QA have requested extra time to verify this with the CA team in Australia; so we can fully regress the bugs in tandem with their QA department and rectify any issues with the code.
Given the level of chat and comments that you guys are good enough to send us, we are aware of the anticipation you guys have but we would consider it unforgiveable if we were to release a patch knowing that there are a number of potential issues with it.. Therefore, given the choice of two evils, we've taken the one that we hope will at least indicate some sensitivity to you guys and your expectations.
In conjunction with this we've also seen that a version of the patch is doing the rounds. This is a good old fashioned leak - we've tried to plug all gaps but owing to a less than secure url being held by one of our file mirrors, some of you guys have been clever enough to find a backdoor and grab the patch.
Kudos to you for your ingenuity, but be aware that this is not the release patch and CA and SEGA are not supporting this. This is not an official release and it is the very same patch that has the bugs mentioned above.
We're wise enough to know that this file is being distributed and how futile it would be to try and stop it. Canute couldn't stop the sea and we can't stop the internet, so we're not silly enough to think that we can stop it's spread.
So, well done to those who found it but please recognise that we think there are problems and we cannot support it.
If you feel inclined to grab this file, it's up to you and if you have feedback we'd be silly not to listen - but keep in mind that we think it's flawed so make your own decision.
We want to apologise - we've been wiping egg off our faces all morning and so we throw ourselves at the mercy of you guys in the hope that you'll understand. We understand your disappointment - we're disappointed too - so stay with us while we try and fix things.
You just beat me to it :yes:
A pity, but at least there's been an official response.
Originally posted here (http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/12774?page=9)
thanks frogbeastegg, its to bad it went down like this for them, but given thier choices im glad they wont be releasing the patch if it causes problems.
This is one of the problems when you give dates to people you raise thier expectations, CA/Sega made this problem with a drop dead release date, I hope they learn from this and never again post a definate date for a patch.
_Tristan_
04-05-2007, 13:41
the good news is I cazn on Esater break without taking my PC...:yes:
But nevertheless I want to ~:mecry:
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 13:43
*wonders how many crusades/jihads will now be called against CA headquarters* :D
Oh well, better than having us as beta testers again (i.e. as it was with the initial release)
This is one of the problems when you give dates to people you raise thier expectations, CA/Sega made this problem with a drop dead release date, I hope they learn from this and never again post a definate date for a patch.
Well the date was to calm people down.
As I said on TWC, I'm happy that they pulled the patch instead of releasing it.
Atleast that is a refreshing thing to see since most companies seem to have no trouble releasing a buggy patch.
frogbeastegg
04-05-2007, 13:47
Sapi, how did you get the url for the link? The only address I ever get on those new forums is http://www.totalwarforums.com/. That's with Firefox and IE, and no matter where I go inside the forums. It's impossible for me to link to a topic.
@Sapi: Thanks for that. I thought the "4 Torrents" refereed to the number of people that would be accessed, not the search programs that look for the people with the files.
Thanks again for the explanation.
Considering the 2-hander bug is animation based and CA have confirmed animations have no effect in auto-calc, so to check their handy-work they would have to play some actual battles. But they probably only did siege battles when they altered something that specifically effects siege battles. SO it could easily have been missed if they did all the siege changes first.
EDIT:Thanks FrogBeastEgg for that quote. Any idea how long it's going to be delayed yet then?
Sapi, how did you get the url for the link? The only address I ever get on those new forums is http://www.totalwarforums.com/. That's with Firefox and IE, and no matter where I go inside the forums. It's impossible for me to link to a topic.
There's a tiny "[url]" button on the top right hand side of the post that'll generate the URL for you.
@frog - I just copied the url from the address bar :grin2:
Well the date was to calm people down.
Maybe thats true, but it was a disaster because they made a promise they couldnt keep, bad business really. Never put a drop dead date on a patch in the PC world, because if you cant make it it kills your credablity going forward.
:furious3: :help: :oops: :dizzy2:
:smash:
CA + SEGA:whip: :shame:
Ok i could/am.......very upset by this development.
But all credit to CA, atleast they are giving us an honest reason, telling us what happened and why.
If i can wait 6 months for a patch to fix a game that probably shouldn't have been released in it's orginal capicity, then i can surely wait another 7 days for the patch to fix the long list.
PS: as long as you put more units in game, and gave the Romans musketeers
So thank you CA.
DAMNIT.......4 day weekend............and i have no patch!!!!!:furious3:
but i'm ok............
DAMNIT
* happy thoughts*..............* happy thoughts*......................* happy thoughts*..............* happy thoughts*......................* happy thoughts*..............* happy thoughts*......................* happy thoughts*..............* happy thoughts*......................
Oh Happy thought!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex Friend.....that should be fiend? shouldn't it?
might have to look in to that one..
fenir
Durallan
04-05-2007, 13:58
I have 4 days that I can't play Med 2 on aswell, like me you will just have to cope and find something else to do :P I'm not entirely fussed but I must say I was looking forward to it. Anyway happy easter all! back to my Denmark campaign.
Midnight
04-05-2007, 13:58
No, this is good - given what they found, this is the best response. Thanks to them for keeping us all informed, and it'll be good to have a thorough patch
Sapi, how did you get the url for the link? The only address I ever get on those new forums is http://www.totalwarforums.com/. That's with Firefox and IE, and no matter where I go inside the forums. It's impossible for me to link to a topic.
That's because you use the link on http://www.totalwar.com to get into the forums
The official Ezboard link was: p223.ezboard.com/bshoguntotalwar and when you use that you get to the forums as well, but you can link to every thread.
Since dotcommie is on Yuku now you can also use: shoguntotalwar.yuku.com
frogbeastegg
04-05-2007, 14:06
@frog - I just copied the url from the address bar :grin2:
Hmm, really? Odd. The address is permanently the same for me. That's probably why I keep being dumped back at the main page each time I try to refresh.
here's a tiny "[url]" button on the top right hand side of the post that'll generate the URL for you.
That works, thanks.
I was hoping to install M2TW on my shiny new PC and get playing again. Thanks to my old desktop slowly dying, and then the time necessary to replace it, I have barely touched the game since before the last patch! Curses!
Oh well. Better a working patch than a broken one.
EDIT: Thanks, Stig. Seems a bit of an odd set up.
frogbeastegg
04-05-2007, 14:13
(trying out the link thing. Sorry for the double post; it's marginally easier this way)
Alex on the timeline for getting the patch out (http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/sreply/151309/Patch-link-.html)
Hi Chaps,
As for new launch dates, our QA team here are laising with the QA team in OZ to gauge what we can fix and how long this will take. Hopefully I will have a timeline for you soon, but until I hear from the QA guys I just can't say and I don't want to get it wrong!
EDIT: Another quote people may like to see:
Agree completely. We should have known about the issues sooner. It was a moment last night where I reached for my spare pants as I had no idea about this. Hopefully in future we can make sure we are 100% before we go. I suppose this oprves a few things to you though. We keenly felt the pressure from the community to deliver, your voices are heard. Secondly, the decision to pull was not tkane lightely and not until myself and Snesei had been consulted. This is also a big plus considering we are in charge of the community at CA/SEGA. This means that senior figures asks our opinion of what you guys would think, that is a big step in understanding how important you guys are. We may not always be on here for every reply, we could never do that, but you are of vital importance to us and we know that.
(Link (http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/reply/151380/Patch-link-.html#reply-151380))
Ah well, better a belated working patch, then a buggy patch.
Anyway, if everyone on dotcommie does as they say we will loads of the whiny crowd, which is a good thing ~D
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 15:12
Using the "new" patch i can confirm that the the 2 handed bug still exists and the vanguarian guasrd still get owned by border horse... And add to that the chatty commentator telling you you are doing...
Quickening
04-05-2007, 15:27
Absolutely laughable to be honest.
NagatsukaShumi
04-05-2007, 15:29
I am glad to hear the releases from CA, they are once again confirming that they are alot frednlier than ALOT of games companies out there and that they do care about their community, it always confuses me to see people going out and complaining CA don't get involved enough, fact is in the world of gaming they are one of the friendlier and more involving companies there is, most simply do not bother giving reasons and would just release the buggy patch, CA have come out and admitted their error and I think when people sit down calmly, they'll see this is the sensible option.
Kudos CA.
Using the "new" patch i can confirm that the the 2 handed bug still exists and the vanguarian guasrd still get owned by border horse... And add to that the chatty commentator telling you you are doing...
Strange.
Other people with the patch are reporting the exact opposite.
Bear in mind that Cav charge resitance is down to defence mostly and 2-handers are low defence, that measn that Cav are a COUNTER for 2-Handers and even with working animations Border Horse will still own Vargarian Guard. it the Border Horse's JOB to do that.
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 15:50
Ehm well i let them (axemen) charge the while the horses stood still and waited, the axemen killed none after the initial charge just like before the patch. Then of course the campaign is unplayable unless you autoresolve castle seiges. On the good news front dismounted mailed knights own the JHI now so i guess the shields are fixed. I also started a portugese campaign and just allowed all my family mambers stay in their own lands. After turn 20 all had pagan magician. Yawn. This is a bit like waiting for the patch to end all patches for RTW
Its 11:40 am right now. Any more info when the mirrors are supposed to go up?
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 16:45
there is no patch mate
it appears that sega didnt even start testing that new build from ca, forgot about it untill phone from ca today morning lol... and they dare to oficially announce the expansion...:no:
Meh, I think they should have just released the patch. Given the horrid status of the game when they released it, a patch with a few issues as described would be a relative step forward.
Oh well.... Would say I'm disappointed, but at this stage of the game it's becoming the norm in my view. /shrug
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 17:19
Yupp it was the same with RTW, every patch brought new issues and after all the hype i am left with a very flawed strategy game with great graphics
Quickening
04-05-2007, 17:29
What amazes me is the number of people still making excuses for CA. I said "ah well better a working patch than a buggy one" the first ten million times. Now it really is beyond a joke and is utterly disgraceful.
Hmm lets see the excuses.
Why announce an expansion pack when the original is still unfixed?
"Different teams".
Why did you officially announce the patch release date and then not release it?
"Eleventh hour problem."
And of course there are the "cool" ones out there saying "ah well it's not the end of the world is it? It's only a patch!" That isn't the ******* point. The point is that we paid for a game that four months later is still unfixed and have been taking it up the arse all through that time with all manner of delays and excuses.
I bet that if CA came out and said, "Sorry, the patch is cancelled", there would be people saying "oh well better no patch than one that ruins the game".
Ive been following the topic on the .com with "Alex" from SEGA and although he admits they messed up badly, I have to agree with the majority there; it just isn't acceptable.
zstajerski
04-05-2007, 17:33
What amazes me is the number of people still making excuses for CA. I said "ah well better a working patch than a buggy one" the first ten million times. Now it really is beyond a joke and is utterly disgraceful.
Hmm lets see the excuses.
Why announce an expansion pack when the original is still unfixed?
"Different teams".
Why did you officially announce the patch release date and then not release it?
"Eleventh hour problem."
And of course there are the "cool" ones out there saying "ah well it's not the end of the world is it? It's only a patch!" That isn't the ******* point. The point is that we paid for a game that four months later is still unfixed and have been taking it up the arse all through that time with all manner of delays and excuses.
I bet that if CA came out and said, "Sorry, the patch is cancelled", there would be people saying "oh well better no patch than one that ruins the game".
Ive been following the topic on the .com with "Alex" from SEGA and although he admits they messed up badly, I have to agree with the majority there; it just isn't acceptable.
hear, hear, agree with you m8 :thumbsdown:
What amazes me is the number of people still making excuses for CA. I said "ah well better a working patch than a buggy one" the first ten million times. Now it really is beyond a joke and is utterly disgraceful.
Hmm lets see the excuses.
Why announce an expansion pack when the original is still unfixed?
"Different teams".
Why did you officially announce the patch release date and then not release it?
"Eleventh hour problem."
And of course there are the "cool" ones out there saying "ah well it's not the end of the world is it? It's only a patch!" That isn't the ******* point. The point is that we paid for a game that four months later is still unfixed and have been taking it up the arse all through that time with all manner of delays and excuses.
I bet that if CA came out and said, "Sorry, the patch is cancelled", there would be people saying "oh well better no patch than one that ruins the game".
Ive been following the topic on the .com with "Alex" from SEGA and although he admits they messed up badly, I have to agree with the majority there; it just isn't acceptable.
i've been following that thread too, and the best advice I have for all those who are unhappy is to reward CA/Sega with no more business. Simply put, dont buy thier products until fixed.
No more 4 month wait that way. I'm not an appologist for them, believe me but my expectations of gaming companies are sufficently low enough to have been prepared for this outcome.
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 17:37
As far as i am concerned I still can't play RTW without bugfixer cos of all the leftover bugs so I don't see this issue going away in any near future
I realize that many of you are disappointed with the delay of the patch. However, please try and keep this thread constructive.
A bit of news:
Righty ho,
Here goes. The glaring bug issues you have found. I am talking to Mumbles at the moment and he doesn't get it. The CTD you are reporting is not on his version of the patch. We are concerned that corruption has taken place, during upload at some stage, either to and fro from our offices, during the mirror upload, we are not sure,another issue we need to look at, granted a patch should not have these issues but it appears there is more to the problem, we think there may be missing files, we'll keep you posted, we need to talk to the QA teams about this before we have an answer.
right other things, coming thick and fast....B5Draal, brilliant, lol moment there and I am going to send it to CAOZ so they can prepapre a decent defense....
yes, multiplayer. This is beyond my technical knowledge but as I said any quesitons like these the Dev teams are going to read this thread, Mumbles has already sent it to them so we can work it out. Hopefully I can get an answer for you on that. I am writing a report on all that has gone on today, highlighting the issues, questions and answers you have all provided. This will be going to the very highest point in our company, your voices will be heard and listened to I can assure you. Hopefully next week I will be able to give you more concrete answers to your more technical questions.
and as I posted there:
I expected something of that sort, cause the patch people are downloading is 614mb instead of 629mb which is what was announced. Hopefully this is the case, as I thought it strange myself that a CTD bug like that would be missed.
Constructive as in "Yay, still no patch!"?
CA's performance has been a disappointment. Instead of rushing out an expansion they should have concentrated on making the vanilla game playable.
But yes, as the previous poster mentioned, I'm certainly not buying the M2 expansion, partly because it doesn't interest me, and partly because CA no longer deserves to have my money.
Being upset and disappointed is perfectly understandable. However, ranting does no one any good and just makes the situation worse.
But yes, as the previous poster mentioned, I'm certainly not buying the M2 expansion, partly because it doesn't interest me, and partly because CA no longer deserves to have my money.
You my friend have just excersied the ultimate power in the entire equation, none of this dissapointment would be had if consumers didnt purchase the product as is.
I didnt buy MTW2 until 1.1 was out and bugfixer mods corrected the game breaking issues. I strongly urge all the fans who are angry to be patient, curtous and gracious to CA and sega, but to take a deep breath and give a second look to what they are buying before they open thier wallet.
The patch issues with 1.2 is a positive, they took back a patch that had a reported CTD, thats a good thing.
http://clancommunityshield.net/thread.php?postid=16477#post16477
Some early testing of the unofficial patch by the mp community.
Edit: Ok I just have to lol at this post I just read:
I am glad to hear the releases from CA, they are once again confirming that they are alot frednlier than ALOT of games companies out there and that they do care about their community, it always confuses me to see people going out and complaining CA don't get involved enough, fact is in the world of gaming they are one of the friendlier and more involving companies there is,.
Lets compare them to who I see to be the best up and coming games studio: Relic. Creators of Company of Heroes and Dawn of War. They have done the following:
Have a community manager who posts at various forums, even random fan ones.
She also held a Relic open house which invited leading community members to Relic to have a tour, presentations, etc.
She has an official blog AND audio podcasts, some of which include interviews with the devs. http://www.relicrank.com/bloggo/2007/04/05/buggos-podcast-3-official-relic-announcement-company-of-heroes-opposing-fronts/
The Relic devs appear on fan run radio show Tales of Heroes ( http://tales.tsncentral.com ) and get quizzed on balance and are asked all kindsa questions.
Relic released an open beta of CoH prior to release to get fan input.
Relic isn't scared to get out there and ask for fans help in solving bugs, instead of just sitting there with a poor balance team and delaying patch after patch.
Fact is the whole community knows the name of Relic's community manager, I'm not sure CA even has one.
Being upset and disappointed is perfectly understandable. However, ranting does no one any good and just makes the situation worse.
Please don't get me wrong here, I mean absolutely no disrespect, but that's not a good idea at all right now.
There are times that sometimes it boils down to harsh, but politely and firmly stated criticism that's supported with statements/evidence. I do not lump that into 'CA bashing', to me CA bashing is something like "ca sux lol." There's a lot of frustration right now with CA and the current state of the game, bottom line to me is CA needs to see and read this stuff. This would be akin to getting your dinner served cold and just eating it instead of saying/doing something about it.
Respectfully
:balloon2:
TeutonicKnight
04-05-2007, 18:55
What amazes me is the number of people still making excuses for CA. I said "ah well better a working patch than a buggy one" the first ten million times. Now it really is beyond a joke and is utterly disgraceful.
Hmm lets see the excuses.
Why announce an expansion pack when the original is still unfixed?
"Different teams".
Why did you officially announce the patch release date and then not release it?
"Eleventh hour problem."
And of course there are the "cool" ones out there saying "ah well it's not the end of the world is it? It's only a patch!" That isn't the ******* point. The point is that we paid for a game that four months later is still unfixed and have been taking it up the arse all through that time with all manner of delays and excuses.
I bet that if CA came out and said, "Sorry, the patch is cancelled", there would be people saying "oh well better no patch than one that ruins the game".
Ive been following the topic on the .com with "Alex" from SEGA and although he admits they messed up badly, I have to agree with the majority there; it just isn't acceptable.
Guess you'd have been better served waiting then. Why'd you rush out and buy the game knowing the history of the series? I waited for 1.1 and the bugfixers, knowing there is always issues with games. Oh, and I got my copy for twenty bucks off the original price too.
Or are you really saying you honestly expected a perfect product out of the box? You cannot have that expectation if you've ever bought software before.
Seriously, if you are going to get that bent out of shape about a product shipping "unfixed", don't buy it until you know it's been "fixed". To do otherwise is simply ridiculous.
I am not defending CA. I am simply pointing out that this is the way all games are released. Maybe they should be released in a "perfect" condition, but that's a question for the industry, not CA. Would you have been happier waiting until the box came with 1.2 built in? Then you could afford to wait six more months to have bought it in the first place.
The only reason you are "taking it up the arse" on this is because you went out and bought the game and expected perfection despite all the evidence and history to the contrary.
I guess I'm "cool". I like the game. I like the bugfixer and 1.1 combo, and I won't even install 1.2 untill I read what other people's experiences are with it.
I also seem to get out more than some others do. :yes:
rosscoliosis
04-05-2007, 18:57
Well, what with the amount they're replying to and apparently looking into the issues people are posting about the new patch, I almost wonder if the patch being leaked wasn't so "accidental" and was really a ploy to get some more outside beta-testers, haha.
I guess what's so disheartening about all these bugs and delayed patches is that the the Total War games are still far and away the best games of their type. For awhile it looked like the Warhammer RTS was going to be set up like a Total War game, but sadly it ended up playing much more like Battle for Middle Earth 2 or even Warcraft 3.
So! M2TW has had, and still has, the potential to be a truly amazing game, it's just the multitude of bugs that end up really taking away from the enjoyment of it, and the agonizingly slow patch release schedule, that are killing it, (and us, the rabid TW addicts, haha).
Quickening
04-05-2007, 19:10
Guess you'd have been better served waiting then. Why'd you rush out and buy the game knowing the history of the series? I waited for 1.1 and the bugfixers, knowing there is always issues with games. Oh, and I got my copy for twenty bucks off the original price too.
Why assume that? Actually, I only bought Rome Total War after the 1.5 patch had been released so I wasn't there to see this kind of farce.
Or are you really saying you honestly expected a perfect product out of the box? You cannot have that expectation if you've ever bought software before.
Again, Ive said this before, Ive been playing PC games since 1993 and no this isn't "just the way it is". I have bought loads of new games lately; STALKER, EU3, C&C and yes of course there are bugs there but nothing as ludicrous as in M2TW.
Seriously, if you are going to get that bent out of shape about a product shipping "unfixed", don't buy it until you know it's been "fixed". To do otherwise is simply ridiculous.
I am not defending CA. I am simply pointing out that this is the way all games are released.
No, they're not. And for those that are released like that it doesn't usually take four months of mucking around to achieve... nothing.
The only reason you are "taking it up the arse" on this is because you went out and bought the game and expected perfection despite all the evidence and history to the contrary.
No, I didn't expect perfection. I expected a finished game.
I guess I'm "cool". I like the game. I like the bugfixer and 1.1 combo, and I won't even install 1.2 untill I read what other people's experiences are with it.
I also seem to get out more than some others do. :yes:
I have a great social life, but that doesn't mean that I don't give a damn if I pay money for a product that does not function as intended. Im sick of people saying basically, "shut up and be happy". Im not happy. I paid 30 quid for a game and Id like it to work properly thank you very much.
And so what if someone from CA or SEGA comes on a forum to explain whats going on? Im not thankful. That's the very least I expect. And I won't be singing CAs praises when the patch finally comes out. "Oh thank you so much CA for fixing the game to the standard it should have been in when I bought it in December last year! You are so wonderful!" There are enough sycophants around to do that.
Please don't get me wrong here, I mean absolutely no disrespect, but that's not a good idea at all right now.
There are times that sometimes it boils down to harsh, but politely and firmly stated criticism that's supported with statements/evidence. I do not lump that into 'CA bashing', to me CA bashing is something like "ca sux lol." There's a lot of frustration right now with CA and the current state of the game, bottom line to me is CA needs to see and read this stuff. This would be akin to getting your dinner served cold and just eating it instead of saying/doing something about it.
Respectfully
:balloon2:
I never said anyone was 'CA Bashing,' though a few posts are going borderline on personal attacks now. *Ahem... TeutonicKnight and Quickening.* I am simply trying to prevent it from occurring in the first place. Please also put things in perspective. Some people seem to be on the verge of going into a meltdown over a slight delay to the patch. That seems a bit overboard IMO.
Quickening
04-05-2007, 19:18
I never said anyone was 'CA Bashing,' though a few posts are going borderline on personal attacks now. *Ahem... TeutonicKnight and Quickening.* I am simply trying to prevent it from occurring in the first place. Please also put things in perspective. Some people seem to be on the verge of going into a meltdown over a slight delay to the patch. That seems a bit overboard IMO.
No offense to you or anything. I understand your position and all that. But from my point of view this community has been exceptionally patient all things considered.
But I do know the futility of debating on the internet and Ive said all I wanted to say. Im sure I'll get "flamed" or whatever but I don't care. Guess I'll go and continue my Spanish campaign. I suppose the one silver lining to this cloud is that I'll get to finish it before the patch :shame:
TeutonicKnight
04-05-2007, 19:33
Point taken, TinCow.
I honestly didn't truly intend to flame Quickening. He's been on the board a while, and has offered quite a bit of friendly advice to many people's questions. Perhaps my satire went a little far, and is better presented in another medium. My apologies.
SoxSexSax
04-05-2007, 19:35
This patch has taken too long. If you disagree with this statement, please explain to me why I cannot (and have never been able to) play a siege with more than 1000 people a side without having cats/trebs/cannon because the frame rate drops to WELL BELOW 1FPS when the AI tries to rush every single infantry unit it has up ONE ladder (not one set of 4 ladders...ONE LADDER!)
Can you explain that? No? Well the patch has taken too long then. No, check that: 2 weeks ago the patch had taken too long. Now it is actually past the point of tolerance.
What I want to know is why on earth didn't CA learn their lesson? To give out one patch date and then inform us ONE DAY BEFORE that they would miss it (by miles, BTW) was bad...but to do it TWICE? For the SAME GAME? On the SAME PATCH???
One copy of the server software my (loool, as if I own it) company writes sells for $50000 (and up, that's for the standard package). If we told our customers TWICE IN A ROW that we had a patch and then had to cancel it on release day, the person responsible would be looking seriously at the sack. He might not get sacked, but it would NOT surprise me at all. Of course, in my 6 years there that's never happened...why would it?
zstajerski
04-05-2007, 19:38
I only bought Sid Meier Civilzation games (all) and TW from RTW,BI,ALEX,M2TW...
Cause I really thought they deserved it and i wanted to have the original game!!
But for TW from now on WAREZ baby , aint worth my € :furious3:
The Foolish Horseman
04-05-2007, 19:46
I only bought Sid Meier Civilzation games (all) and TW from RTW,BI,ALEX,M2TW...
Cause I really thought they deserved it and i wanted to have the original game!!
But for TW from now on WAREZ baby , aint worth my € :furious3:
mate your asking for a warning talking about Warez. Although many people do use it, it is still illegal and exactly why companies dont get enough money to have competent patchers
Zenicetus
04-05-2007, 19:47
Constructive as in "Yay, still no patch!"?
CA's performance has been a disappointment. Instead of rushing out an expansion they should have concentrated on making the vanilla game playable.
But yes, as the previous poster mentioned, I'm certainly not buying the M2 expansion, partly because it doesn't interest me, and partly because CA no longer deserves to have my money.
I agree it's terrible PR and customer relations to be hyping the expansion when they've taken so long to get this patch out. On top of that, this last-minute patch release snafu. However, they must know that very few people are going to buy or recommend the expansion, if the vanilla game isn't patched up solid. So there's still some reason to be optimistic, I think.
Me, I'm just playing other games so I don't stress over it -- GalCiv2 and SH4... and that last one, boy, talk about a bug farm. I'm still playing it for the same reason I haven't given up on the TW series... nothing else on the market like this. I just wish all games could be as solid on release, and with the patches and feature enhancements we've seen with GalCiv2. Not to mention complete freedom from copy protection. CA (and Ubi) could learn a lot from that tiny company.
Quickening
04-05-2007, 19:49
Point taken, TinCow.
I honestly didn't truly intend to flame Quickening. He's been on the board a while, and has offered quite a bit of friendly advice to many people's questions. Perhaps my satire went a little far, and is better presented in another medium. My apologies.
I meant no disrespect to you either. Like you I do thouroughly enjoy playing this game as it is, but in a way that makes this whole thing even more frustrating. Oh well, at the end of the day we all want the same thing ~:cheers:
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 19:50
Warez. Although many people do use it, it is still illegal and exactly why companies dont get enough money to have competent patchers
Ahem, if you believe that then you should maybe i can sell you the statue of liberty real cheap?
You my friend have just excersied the ultimate power in the entire equation, none of this dissapointment would be had if consumers didnt purchase the product as is.
That's the best way to deal with the Total War series now rather than buying the game and then hoping that the gameplay can be brought up to a standard that makes it worth spending the time playing. I still don't own M2TW for that reason which makes the announced expansion to it useless to me since it's not a standalone expansion. The delayed v1.2 patch also has no affect on me, but I agree with delaying it if there is potentially a CTD. Like RTW, I don't expect M2TW to be in reasonable working condition until 1 year after release at which point modders can try to do something with it, although, that doesn't help MP very much.
That's the best way to deal with the Total War series now rather than buying the game and then hoping that the gameplay can be brought up to a standard that makes it worth spending the time playing. I still don't own M2TW for that reason which makes the announced expansion to it useless to me since it's not a standalone expansion. The delayed v1.2 patch also has no affect on me, but I agree with delaying it if there is potentially a CTD. Like RTW, I don't expect M2TW to be in reasonable working condition until 1 year after release at which point modders can try to do something with it, although, that doesn't help MP very much.
In my opinion its the best way to deal with all pc games. Its an industry wide problem from 90% ratings at review sites to open moddable files so end users can correct problems.
Essentially (and quite brilliantly) the gaming industry has set up conditions where the end user pays for a product before its finished, and helps to finish the game themselves. its a great business model, for the dev/publisher, why wouldnt they continue this business model?
One reason, the consumer no longer supports the process with thier purchase.
Sentinel
04-05-2007, 20:11
Anyone that is reading this and the above posts obviously has more than a passing interest in the totalwar games. People don't come here just to practice their typing skills. They come here to learn more of the game, to talk to others about what is good and bad about the game. I have played most of the series and will proberbly continue to buy subesquent titles. I choose to spend my time playing TW because I love this type of game and this is one of the best on the market (but not the only one).
But I have been waiting for a few weeks now to start a new campain. I wanted to install the new patch before starting the campain.
They released a game that was playable for most people, but that had obviouse flaws that they knew would be frustrating to the veteran player.
They released one patch to help with some of the minor issues, but failed to address the main problems. The delay of the second patch only add fuel to the fire.
Now It looks like I will have to either wait even longer or visit my local game shops and see what else in on offer by other companies (any suggerstions?).
This is the risk that CA is facing.
I have time over the weekend to go shopping and try somthing new, If their competitors also have good games on offer, CA risk loosing my interest and business.
Whilst CA bashing should not be allowed to get out of hand I do tend to agree with Whacker (post 143), that this game is not as hot as it could/should be.
Quickening
04-05-2007, 20:17
Now It looks like I will have to either wait even longer or visit my local game shops and see what else in on offer by other companies (any suggestions?).
In all seriousness, Europa Universalis 3 is well worth a look. It doesn't have the epic 3D battles of Total War but it has brilliant diplomacy and is in my opinion the definitive empire simulator to date. It is extremely slow paced however and that isn't everyones cup of tea. I myself go back to M2TW every so often for a quick adrenaline rush and the thrill of battle.
I recommend that game in the meantime but Id read a few reviews about it online first just to make sure it's your kind of thing.
Richard The Tiger Heart
04-05-2007, 20:25
Still unplayable sieges? This is one the biggest disappointments I've ever had with a game company...
How is it POSSIBLE that a producer DENIES us, the players, the ability to play a battle siege?
Im back to world of warcraft for now...:wall:
Hoplite7
04-05-2007, 20:33
LMFAO, they didn't realease it!
Yet another sound disappointment. And from what I read, they havn't even released a date?
Edit: "Sometime" after Easter. :(
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-05-2007, 20:43
On a more cheerful note: The Dismounted Imperial Knights own both the JHI and the Dismounted feudal knights I guess having a shield and a positive armor value of the opponent helps then. Hurray:smash:
Jokerkaaos
04-05-2007, 21:37
In my opinion its the best way to deal with all pc games. Its an industry wide problem from 90% ratings at review sites to open moddable files so end users can correct problems.
Essentially (and quite brilliantly) the gaming industry has set up conditions where the end user pays for a product before its finished, and helps to finish the game themselves. its a great business model, for the dev/publisher, why wouldnt they continue this business model?
One reason, the consumer no longer supports the process with thier purchase.
Yes, this is absolutely correct.
Until sufficient customer backlash accumulates to the point where it is no longer profitable to follow this model, it will continue. The way it stands now, there are still enough people willing to buy immediate releases at top retail price.
I have bought and played every TW game, but even games from developers whose vision I respect (like CA's) are on a one-REAL-patch-before-buying minimum for me now. I don't count the first patch (which is usually available the day of release for most games). I broke that rule with M2TW and purchased it after 1.1 only because there were bugfixes and bugfix-including mods available. Even so, waiting until after 1.1 saved me $20, as I was able to find a copy for $31 including shipping on eBay.
I don't see myself purchasing the expansion for a very long time, because by that time the vanilla game will probably just be approaching proper status through patches and (mainly) mods. I imagine it will take a good six months for the expansion to reach that level.
So I join those who say that if you want this system to change, stop buying games on release. Make them fix it and lower the price first before you lay down your money and you will see a change in the industry. Until then, releases will continue to be set for marketing cycles like winter holidays, and games will continue to be broken for 6 months to a year after release.
Title changed to make it more obvious that all Patch 1.2 discussion should be in here.
NagatsukaShumi
04-05-2007, 21:41
Face facts, PC games have ALWAYS been less tested than console games (maybe not now with online gaming there in fairness) as they can afford to clear up errors afterwards, if a console game is released prior to the internet on them, that was it, no patch, no second chance, PC games have always been different in that respect, if its now possible to patch console games, expect the same.
I do appreciate GREATLY the effort to keep the community informed.
I think it's commendable to set a date at all, specially since we all know it's sometimes hard to make deadlines. (that almost made me choke it sounds so ridiculous, nobody cares... you just have to meet the deadline. One of the many sad facts of life) This is a business and business is hard. You have to deliver what you promise or your clients go away. Some people don't care though as long as they got a few hundred thousand dollars BEFORE the clients went away. But for any company that wants to hit it big in the long run, you have to keep your customers happy.
Thank you for the information on the patch and thank you for keeping us informed.
I do not appreciate at all the LONG hours I've had to spend looking for fixes, and fixing the long lists of things that don't work in this game. I do love the game but I really would like the game to be WORKING out of the box. Improving the game is one thing but items such as the 2H bug, shield bug, etc indicate that the product is not working as advertised at the time of shipment.
I am fully aware that, with the complexities of games in general it is expected that some things will not work. I also feel it is fullly acceptable to fix things that got through the INHOUSE GAME TESTING, and were subsequently discovered. It is NOT acceptable to have HUGE problems with the game and allow that those bugs go undetected. It is NOT acceptable to claim that an update fixes issues when actually it does NOT. Such is the case with update 1, you at CA know it, I know it, and most of this community knows it: while it was a great update, with timely release, it does NOT fix some of the issues it claims to have fixed.
I agree that we should, in the interest of consumer rights to a finished product, not buy games until they are known to be in a good order.
As far as CA is concerned, since MTW/VI I've been frustrated with a failure to meet the standards CA set for themselves with STW/MI. I've also been extremely angry with a failure to respect the clients needs to proper and continued support. This has, with all fairness, improved, and it has improved dramtically. In fact M2:TW itself is a testament to improved customer support and community knowledge as a LOT of the complaints from MTW/VI have indeed been addressed and an effort has obviously been made to accomodate those complaints and requests. In particular I'd like to say THANKS for listening to the community the best that you could.
I'm sure that you guys at CA are doing what you can, but to most of us on the outside it looks like you're taking advantage of your customers.
We are paying for a product that we have to test and even fix.
This has got to change one way or another and as most things in business it will change your company eventually... with an impact to your bottom line. Then people will scurry about and things will change. I really wish it could change by any other method, but it seems clear enough to me it will not change unless the cash flow is hurting. Then people will ask questions.
As long as, we, the clients continue to pay for this service why should it change ? It will not. the solution is to reject this standard and not pay for the games till they are working as advertised.
THANKS again for the update on the patch ! I'm really looking forward to playing the game with the official fixes. Hope it's going to be released... soon but I'd also like to commend you for NOT releasing a bugged patch. Good call ! It would have made it worse to release it. And THANKS for listening over the years.
To everyone at CA and everyone here, enjoy your Easter holidays !
Razor1952
04-05-2007, 22:31
I would like to counter mostly the negative criticism of MTW2 above.
I ask myself the basic question " have I enjoyed this more than other pc games " to which the answer is a resounding YES. As far as I'm concerned the cost of the game was well worth it.
As for a patch delay, I'd reiterate I want it working. So CA take your time to get it right, Sega will not allow another patch.
As for the expansion , bring it on I'm waiting anxiously.
To the modders thank you for your mods including fixes, I don't believe with such a complex game it is possible to be bug free(look at famous military software built with lots more resources and still bugged).
The great thing MTW2 has is its moddability. Our society is moving to this model for lots of things, (like wikipaedia) so CA making it so moddable is its greatest stength. I have faith in both CA bringing out great games and you modders to make them even better.
As for opposition games only civ series can rival totalwar and their strength is moddability as well.
Being upset and disappointed is perfectly understandable. However, ranting does no one any good and just makes the situation worse.Actually, that's quite debatable. I, for one, get quite a lot out of it when I choose to rant about something. The biggest thing is, I feel a lot better afterwards. Also, it is the only way any of us who have purchased M2TW can make any impact at all on CA and SEGA. We already know that CA employees and possibly SEGA ones read this forum, so it's possible that any given thing written here is read by them. It's tempting to say "we're going over the same old ground, so why keep voicing negativity..." but the fact is, the more the point is repeated, the more of an impression it will make. Think about it - when someone ribs you about something once, you get over it quickly. When you get ribbed about something a bunch of times from a lot of different people, that's when it really gets driven home, when it really affects you. As for ranting, there's no denying that people make more memorable points when they become animated and agitated, so IMO those things are quite called for since they're the only tools we have to grab corporate attentions and make them realize how badly FUBAR this really is.
I never said anyone was 'CA Bashing,' though a few posts are going borderline on personal attacks now. *Ahem... TeutonicKnight and Quickening.* I am simply trying to prevent it from occurring in the first place. Please also put things in perspective. Some people seem to be on the verge of going into a meltdown over a slight delay to the patch. That seems a bit overboard IMO.
I think you're interpreting the situation poorly. The patch is not slightly delayed - it is delayed EVEN LONGER than the original long delay. If the patch had been right on time and now was being pushed back a few days, that would be different. But it's not. It's already been horribly delayed, and is now delayed more - THAT is what I think people are finding unacceptable, at least in part.
Anyway, that's my peace for now - I'll leave ranting for others to do. I do leave one thought though - this is only the latest incident in a long chain that really rubs the community the wrong way. What's coming out here is not simply the result of the patch being delayed, it's the result of every other thing that's pissed everyone off, and most of the community has been biting its tongue about, waiting and hoping that 1.2 would come along and make things something close to "right." Frankly I don't blame anyone who blasts CA and SEGA at this point: It's about time, and they certainly have it coming.
Lord_hazard
04-05-2007, 22:36
LMFAO, they didn't realease it!
Yet another sound disappointment. And from what I read, they havn't even released a date?
Edit: "Sometime" after Easter. :(
Nah they released it, they just pulled it back real quick. I was afraid for a sec that it might have been a fake virus patch.
pike master
04-05-2007, 23:06
well it was never officially released. the version people downloaded may not even have been the completed version. but a leaked version from some time before.
missing data seems to be the culprit.
to many things can go wrong with a massive download like that.
well it was never officially released. the version people downloaded may not even have been the completed version. but a leaked version from some time before.
missing data seems to be the culprit.
to many things can go wrong with a massive download like that.
Well I managed to grab a copy, it seems the main batch of problems comes from not reinstalling the game before applying the patch because the patcher seems to be quite sensitive to file changes...
After reinstalling I didn't have time to check it properly but it seemed fine (loaded a siege battle, etc. what had crashed the game before)
Well I managed to grab a copy, it seems the main batch of problems comes from not reinstalling the game before applying the patch because the patcher seems to be quite sensitive to file changes...
After reinstalling I didn't have time to check it properly but it seemed fine (loaded a siege battle, etc. what had crashed the game before)
Any chance of Unpacking the files and uploading them somwhere so us modders can get a look at some of the changes that have ben implemented please? It saves downloadin and installing the damm thing as w'd then doubtless have to uninstall and re-install again when the officiol vershion comes out.
FactionHeir
04-05-2007, 23:39
Good call Carl. I second it.
Actually, that's quite debatable. I, for one, get quite a lot out of it when I choose to rant about something. The biggest thing is, I feel a lot better afterwards. Also, it is the only way any of us who have purchased M2TW can make any impact at all on CA and SEGA. We already know that CA employees and possibly SEGA ones read this forum, so it's possible that any given thing written here is read by them. It's tempting to say "we're going over the same old ground, so why keep voicing negativity..." but the fact is, the more the point is repeated, the more of an impression it will make. Think about it - when someone ribs you about something once, you get over it quickly. When you get ribbed about something a bunch of times from a lot of different people, that's when it really gets driven home, when it really affects you. As for ranting, there's no denying that people make more memorable points when they become animated and agitated, so IMO those things are quite called for since they're the only tools we have to grab corporate attentions and make them realize how badly FUBAR this really is.
I understand what you are saying, but you're confusing the CA and the Org. We are two entirely different entities. Ranting may make a person feel better, but it can cause conflict here between the Org members. We pride ourselves on the fact that this is a forum where people can speak their minds intelligently and respectfully without much fear of being flamed. One of the reasons for this is that the forums are kept largely civil and stay on-topic.
Ranting now and then is perfectly fine; there's a reason the 'Rant' prefix exists for threads. However, this particular topic has so much tension built up behind it that it is likely to spill over and cause conflict between members if we do not control it. It has nothing to do with CA at all, it has everything to do with keeping the Org a fun place to be. If you want CA to see how irate you are, you can post in more 'direct' words on the official forums. Trust me, even if the Org stays rantless, CA will notice that every other TW forum has gone nuts. You can communicate your point to them without hurting the Org.
I actually think your entire post is exactly what we're trying to protect. You're addressing a rather controversial issue with intelligence and insight. Thank you for being one of the many smart and responsible people that make this place great.
Quickening
04-05-2007, 23:59
Have enough have reinstalled Rome TW and patched to 1.5 (without BI and ALEX...)
Will play Greece ("need" for Spartan hoplites, hehe), till the patch 1.2 for M2TW is out!!
Ha! That's what Im doing to! I still enjoy RTW as much as ever. Just takes a little while to get use to the "poor" graphics.
CptPicard
04-06-2007, 00:18
We won't discuss limewire here, as not only is it very far off topic and mostly illegal it has absolutely nothing to do with bittorrent
I just can't resist correcting this one despite the risk of running foul of a mod... Limewire as a P2P application is not in any way more illegal than any other P2P application is; neither is the Gnutella protocol it makes use of illegal in itself. Bittorrent is simply another P2P protocol (and the name of the original application that implements the protocol), and if you wanted to brand an application/protocol "mostly illegal" based on the fact that unfortunately ALL P2P apps/protocols are factually used for copyright infringement 99% of the time, then Bittorrent certainly qualifies as well, and if you look at the current stats, more so than most others.
Right, since it's been posted everywhere else here's a bittorrent link (this is the version I'm using, and it includes all Western European languages plus the US version):
http://www.gortosch.homeip.net/MIITW_Update2_Final_EFIGS.exe.torrent
As for changes: If you tell me a program to do a quick checksum compare between whole folders with subfolders I can tell you which files have changed.
I can however already tell you that the launcher uses xml and is highly adaptable. We could probably even link it to a news-site on the .org if we wanted to :)
To use mods with the launcher is a bit more complicated though as you'll have to make quite a few registry entries (I'm well aware that most people don't even know what the registry is, so won't be able to do that for sure).
I'll test the mod folders thoroughly tomorrow.
I can confirm that the patch also works on my notebook now, by the way.
Well I can report a what seems to be a success on porting from a old 1.1.
I could attack York with no trouble and I'm seeing some pleasant things in this patch.
Tried a custom battle with billmen against feudal knights and 2-hand bug seems to be fixed since the billmen owned the cavalry once it got bogged down.
The new voices were a bit of a shock but gave nice info so that's good.
When I attacked York I also some nice things.
I moved my archers to one of the streets(I think it was the southern street). In 1.1 the AI would move it's troops down the same road where if you can bottleneck them with your spearman and destroy them with your bowmen.
However it did not do so now. Instead it took the sidestreets and tried to get on my flanks instead.
Need to test this patch more tomorrow but I'm so far pleased with what I have seen. Nice work CA if these things are indeed true and not just a fluke.
Quickening
04-06-2007, 01:24
Okay so what do you have to do to get this "patch" working? Im eager to make some observations of my own.
The best try so far seems to be uninstall, then delete the contents of your M2/data, M2/sounds and M2/packs folders and then reinstall and apply the game to a clean 1.0 installation.
Quickening
04-06-2007, 01:47
This torrent will take forever. Is there any other links?
I'd like to reiterate and back up TinCow - you can express your dislike of the patch all you like, but you may not flame CA or other members.
Discussing warez is also a big no-no.
I just can't resist correcting this one despite the risk of running foul of a mod... Limewire as a P2P application is not in any way more illegal than any other P2P application is; neither is the Gnutella protocol it makes use of illegal in itself. Bittorrent is simply another P2P protocol (and the name of the original application that implements the protocol), and if you wanted to brand an application/protocol "mostly illegal" based on the fact that unfortunately ALL P2P apps/protocols are factually used for copyright infringement 99% of the time, then Bittorrent certainly qualifies as well, and if you look at the current stats, more so than most others.Of course you're right, and I wouldn't think of saying otherwise; however I was comparing limewire used to dl music with bittorent used to download a legitimate patch; quite different situations.
King Bob VI
04-06-2007, 03:24
This is not addressed to anyone in particular here but just at those who keeping doing this both here and at TWC:
If I see one more post along the lines of "I'm done with CA and TW and I'm uninstalling M2 and throwing it away and boo-hoo life sucks" I'm gonna shoot somebody.If you are truly that upset over a delayed patch, then go play WoW or something and leave all the people here who are actually enjoying this great game alone.
Take your drama somewhere else.
Forward Observer
04-06-2007, 03:45
I appologize if this has already been stated and take it for what it is worth-- since I am only loosely quoting the official Q and A from the Sega website, but they are recommending that you don't use the leaked patch that is going around because it is un-official and may do more harm than good.
Speaking of ranting about games and game theft, you might find this post interesting:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=81953
I wonder just how many people that come here complaining about M2TW would be eating crow if Sega published the game using the same copy protection trick as Ubisoft did with SH4.
Personally, I have fun with the game and I'm sure I will have even more fun after the patch and still more with the expansion, but it is still just a game and that is all it ever will be to me. To me there are just a ton of more important things in life to get upset about.
Cheers
Quickening
04-06-2007, 03:45
I hate WoW. I'll play M2TW v1.1 instead. :smash:
Ha! That's what Im doing to! I still enjoy RTW as much as ever. Just takes a little while to get use to the "poor" graphics.
Actually mate, based on someone else's suggestion, I simply copied over a lot of the graphics files from M2TW to RTW, right now I'm playing RTW with the M2TW campaign map visual candy. :grin: Search around here for some information on how to do it, it adds refreshing "newness" to our now almost 3-year old game.
:balloon2:
pike master
04-06-2007, 04:11
what is wharez?
Quickening
04-06-2007, 04:14
Actually mate, based on someone else's suggestion, I simply copied over a lot of the graphics files from M2TW to RTW, right now I'm playing RTW with the M2TW campaign map visual candy. :grin: Search around here for some information on how to do it, it adds refreshing "newness" to our now almost 3-year old game.
:balloon2:
Wow thanks! I will do that. :2thumbsup:
what is wharez?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez
Durallan
04-06-2007, 04:24
programmers have to have lives too you know ;) it is stupid that M2TW was released in the state it was but it was the chrissie rush and SEGA wanted it out to get the extra sales that would generate. Truth be told M2TW probably should have only been released about July this year but then they wouldn't have gotten as many sales, remember for publishing companies, getting maximum profit for the shareholders is the most important thing these days, bugger quality control and anything else that gets in the way of a few extra cents on the share price. CA remember has 2 different teams and so while they probably shouldn't have one team working on the expansion while vanilla is bugged, remember that CA doesn't get to dictate when they should work on a game or when they should start on the expansion, and normally if there is going to be an expansion they start work on it straight after the game is released. You only need to look at a game like X3 Reunion, which was released way too early and which I was one of the people whom preordered it to get the cool book that came with it ;)
unfortunately X3 really shouldn't have been released for at least another 6 months. But Egosoft really didn't get a choice like CA as to when they should release it. The outcry that came out of X3 is similar to the outcry here, but at least CA and Egosoft both worked on patches. Egosoft got X3 finally to a splendid state and it is now a fantastic game, hopefully CA can follow in their footsteps and make M2TW as bug free and funtastic game to play as well. Everyone has a right to rant about paying 90AUD or 50 US bucks or 30 quid or whatever your currency is but in the end it doesn't really help anything, at least on these forums, plus it only upsets the developers who ahve worked hard on this game, and the developers aren't the evil minded demons that some of the Managers and CEO's are :P.
It would be cool if CA adopted a Devnet similar to what Egosoft has because those that do want to participate in the development process can, and then one day may even end up being employed by egosoft. Anyway don't stress about the patch, we all had plans, including CA on what they wanted to do this easter. Instead of having fun for 4 days they will be running around trying to figure out whats wrong and see if they can sort it out while we all eat easter eggs, go on holidays or whatever fun things you have planned!
take care everyone and have some fun.
Personally, I'm not too concerned. I'd rather they release a working patch than one which is flawed, so I'm willing to wait. It's not the end of the world. :)
You only need to look at a game like X3 Reunion, which was released way too early and which I was one of the people whom preordered it to get the cool book that came with it ;)
X3's problem wasn't it's release, it's that it was crippled with that horrible, hardware-destroying "protection" abomination known as Starforce. Even though they finally bowed to demand and removed it still doesn't leave me completely convinced to get/try this game... and I've been fiending after a really good space/flight sim lately.
Everyone has a right to rant about paying 90AUD or 50 US bucks or 30 quid or whatever your currency is but in the end it doesn't really help anything, at least on these forums, plus it only upsets the developers who ahve worked hard on this game, and the developers aren't the evil minded demons that some of the Managers and CEO's are :P.
Meh, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people's frustrations aren't aimed at the devs. I think most rational folks understand that the Devs are generally honest, hardworking guys who genuinely love to make games. The problem is that they take orders from the execs and project leads, who are in turn swayed/shoved around by the often sorely-misguided marketing types.
For me, it's not really about trying to blame anyone, it's that I've got a product that I've paid for, and am sorely dissatisifed with it and the hoopla that's surrounded it since even before it's release.
It would be cool if CA adopted a Devnet similar to what Egosoft has because those that do want to participate in the development process can, and then one day may even end up being employed by egosoft. Anyway don't stress about the patch, we all had plans, including CA on what they wanted to do this easter. Instead of having fun for 4 days they will be running around trying to figure out whats wrong and see if they can sort it out while we all eat easter eggs, go on holidays or whatever fun things you have planned!
Mate, I couldn't agree with you more if I tried. Been saying this from the beginning, I think CA is making a very bad decision with the route they've chosen, in terms of 'modding' for this game, or more precisely the lack thereof. Openning up the game itself, and providing an official SDK much like ID Software and Valve have done would go miles for both garnering a much bigger customer/fan base, regaining the faith of many who've been burnt by false/broken promises so far, and fostering a huge and dedicated multiplayer community. Not only do I firmly believe it would accomplish the above, but like you stated it would provide a real honest-to-god means for some of the more technically minded fans to provide some real input and contribute to the game. I sincerely hope that they seriously consider this as a viable option down the road.
take care everyone and have some fun.
Right back at you.
:balloon2:
This is not addressed to anyone in particular here but just at those who keeping doing this both here and at TWC:
If I see one more post along the lines of "I'm done with CA and TW and I'm uninstalling M2 and throwing it away and boo-hoo life sucks" I'm gonna shoot somebody.If you are truly that upset over a delayed patch, then go play WoW or something and leave all the people here who are actually enjoying this great game alone.
Take your drama somewhere else.
Have you read this thread? I think I did a pretty good job earlier explaining exactly why so many people are expressing anger, frustration, and many other bad feelings right now. If you think it's just because of a patch being pushed off for a bit, you're way off base. It's more of a "straw that breaks the camel's back" thing. Everyone has a limit to what they can take. I'm pretty patient so we haven't hit mine yet, but I don't blame the people who have reached that point and are doing something about it.
Also, have you considered that the thing you are whining about is really the best thing those people can do in a situation like this? Taking your business somewhere else and swearing never to buy a CA/TW/SEGA product again may make an effect that's noticeable to CA/SEGA sometime in the future... but doing so and being vocal about it now makes an immediate and much more noticeable impact on the suits. They don't have to wait to see the sales on their next release: the community is keeping them informed as things are happening. This is actually and odd sort of courtesy on the part of the players, if you really think about it: they're keeping CA/SEGA abreast of things, which means they aren't going to have a sudden shock if their next release flops, and also that they know exactly what went wrong if it does. If no one made much of a fuss, the next release could simply smash into a brick wall, sell far under quotas, and before you know it CA would go under. At least with the community being vocal they have a chance to do damage control and plan for any nasty eventualities.
As for the various posts like King Bob's here that say things like shut up, nothing is wrong, be happy... Well, they upset me. The fact that anyone can actually suggest people shouldn't be upset right now is a bit incomprehensible to me. Granted some people are going quite too far with their comments, but likewise many many people are guilty of not going far enough. That sort of complacence is exactly the reason the PC gaming industry is such a mess to begin with! Every person that just buys games, plays through the horrible bugs, deals with the crap that devs/publishers dump on them... every person that does that is part of the PROBLEM. If you never tell the devs/publishers that the situation is unacceptable, and you keep right on buying bug-ridden games, then you are keeping the system that generates them in place with your behavior. I respect the people who are throwing the game out far more than the ones who can't even see the problem - At least the former are doing something, and moving toward becoming part of the solution at the same time. The latter, I'm afraid, are the hopeless slaves of the gaming industry already.
I'm not sure that throwing the game out and committing to not buying TW games ever again is the right answer... but I am sure that sitting here acting like everything is great and telling people to stop voicing their opinions is the wrong one.
CamelGunner
04-06-2007, 07:44
Have you read this thread? I think I did a pretty good job earlier explaining exactly why so many people are expressing anger, frustration, and many other bad feelings right now. If you think it's just because of a patch being pushed off for a bit, you're way off base. It's more of a "straw that breaks the camel's back" thing. Everyone has a limit to what they can take. I'm pretty patient so we haven't hit mine yet, but I don't blame the people who have reached that point and are doing something about it.
Also, have you considered that the thing you are whining about is really the best thing those people can do in a situation like this? Taking your business somewhere else and swearing never to buy a CA/TW/SEGA product again may make an effect that's noticeable to CA/SEGA sometime in the future... but doing so and being vocal about it now makes an immediate and much more noticeable impact on the suits. They don't have to wait to see the sales on their next release: the community is keeping them informed as things are happening. This is actually and odd sort of courtesy on the part of the players, if you really think about it: they're keeping CA/SEGA abreast of things, which means they aren't going to have a sudden shock if their next release flops, and also that they know exactly what went wrong if it does. If no one made much of a fuss, the next release could simply smash into a brick wall, sell far under quotas, and before you know it CA would go under. At least with the community being vocal they have a chance to do damage control and plan for any nasty eventualities.
As for the various posts like King Bob's here that say things like shut up, nothing is wrong, be happy... Well, they upset me. The fact that anyone can actually suggest people shouldn't be upset right now is a bit incomprehensible to me. Granted some people are going quite too far with their comments, but likewise many many people are guilty of not going far enough. That sort of complacence is exactly the reason the PC gaming industry is such a mess to begin with! Every person that just buys games, plays through the horrible bugs, deals with the crap that devs/publishers dump on them... every person that does that is part of the PROBLEM. If you never tell the devs/publishers that the situation is unacceptable, and you keep right on buying bug-ridden games, then you are keeping the system that generates them in place with your behavior. I respect the people who are throwing the game out far more than the ones who can't even see the problem - At least the former are doing something, and moving toward becoming part of the solution at the same time. The latter, I'm afraid, are the hopeless slaves of the gaming industry already.
I'm not sure that throwing the game out and committing to not buying TW games ever again is the right answer... but I am sure that sitting here acting like everything is great and telling people to stop voicing their opinions is the wrong one.
Agreed with everything you said. Good that people voice their opinions, but it should be constructive, pointing out flaws with the game, that the developers can work on. The cry-babyness should stop.
I've played every total war except shogun, and the little bugs here and there haven't stopped me from total domination, and won't stop me from buying every total war game they make from now on. Sorry if I'm a hopeless slave of the gaming industry, but hey, it's 50 bucks. One night staying home from the bars.
I dislike derailing the topic even momentarily, but apparently some people need to be reminded of one the rules here: Members are expected to discuss things in a civil manner, and this includes no swearing. I just deleted a couple posts in their entirety because of inappropriate language, since they were also not contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way. :no:
So ixnay on the cussing. Consider yourselves warned.
But back to topic.... I think Foz has a point. Simply making statements like "Stop whining about the patch and go playing something else" is horribly oversimplistic. It's not going to solve anything or stop the complaining, no matter how much anyone might wish it did. Some people don't play many PC games outside of Total War, and/or they prefer only strategy games, and/or they're simply in the mood for Medieval 2 and don't want to play anything else, etc.
For those of you who are still able to play and enjoy Medieval 2 in its current state, I think that's awesome. I'm geniunely very happy for you guys -- you're clearly the type who can enjoy something despite some quite noticable flaws, and that's really an ability to be envied. :yes: Many people simply don't have this ability, however, and you should keep that in mind before criticizing people who are criticizing the game. They have a right -- and in my opinion, a duty -- to do so, if they find fault with it.
(Besides which, it begs the question: If you're still enjoying the game so much, why are you wasting time posting in a thread where the majority of people are complaining about it? :wink:)
Durallan
04-06-2007, 08:53
As for the various posts like King Bob's here that say things like shut up, nothing is wrong, be happy... Well, they upset me. The fact that anyone can actually suggest people shouldn't be upset right now is a bit incomprehensible to me. Granted some people are going quite too far with their comments, but likewise many many people are guilty of not going far enough. That sort of complacence is exactly the reason the PC gaming industry is such a mess to begin with! Every person that just buys games, plays through the horrible bugs, deals with the crap that devs/publishers dump on them... every person that does that is part of the PROBLEM. If you never tell the devs/publishers that the situation is unacceptable, and you keep right on buying bug-ridden games, then you are keeping the system that generates them in place with your behavior. I respect the people who are throwing the game out far more than the ones who can't even see the problem - At least the former are doing something, and moving toward becoming part of the solution at the same time. The latter, I'm afraid, are the hopeless slaves of the gaming industry already.
I'm not sure that throwing the game out and committing to not buying TW games ever again is the right answer... but I am sure that sitting here acting like everything is great and telling people to stop voicing their opinions is the wrong one.
Hopeless slave of the gaming industry? lol I don't think so. I'm not going to throw a game into the bin that I paid money for because it buggy and it still has a chance to be a great game. I buy games when I think it will be good, I liked the series or it has had me playing up very late. Medieval 2, despite its bugs (noticable on first play or not) did keep me up late. while voting with your wallet its a very noble idea, but its as unlikely to change the situation as not buying petrol anymore to stop oil companies overcharging and price rorting. unfortunately there just aren't enough people here to impact on the sale of the game and I'd say that at most the people on these sites contribute to about 25% of sales, unfortunately maybe 5% are that annoyed that they will vote with their wallet if that will make an impact at all, the problem is too endemic and widespread and most gamers are casual and well just want entertainment. (Disclaimer: no I don't have definite figures but most gamers are not that concerned to log onto forums and talk about their concerns like the great people here, just a fact I guess.)
I don't play too many games anymore as life is getting more and more in the way and soon I'm going to have to give up this college life and go into the real world! :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :book: :book:
I'd like to thank Whacker for his nice comments, but...
X3's problem was its release. If you look at how badly optimized the game was, random crashes etc in 1.0, that wasn't because of starforce I bet you something substantial lol, that if there was no starforce in 1.0 it still would have been instable, unoptimized and randomly crashing. I seriously doubt it caused alot of instability.
Version 2.0 of the game is practically flawless and also includes an extra mission which allows you to get a player HQ. I'd also suggest that if you do want a space sim game you do get X3, especially with the latest patch, its really worth it IMO, but the game isn't for people who dislike steep learning curves, or a hard start ;) However there are a bunch of friendly people in the ego forums to help anyone with questions out. X3 shouldn't be tooo expensive.
Anyway back on topic... My nonchalantness says I'm certaintly no slave of the game industry I just like getting my games first and hoping they get better later on, which they generally do. I don't have any ideas on how to get them to stop releasing buggy games, I mean if you could get people to stop buying buggy games that would be great, but then the PC games industry would crash because no publisher would be willing to finance a game that takes 6 months longer than they want it to just to iron out all the bugs, Who knows! if you can get them to shift their buts and release games that aren't buggy I support ya.
PutCashIn
04-06-2007, 08:58
C'mon, patience is a virtue!
But all this outpouring of rage into the black hole of the internet is a good thing, we are not internalising our stress...lively debating is good for the soul!
Just wondering, (please flame my senselessness senseless for asking this) but is anyone prepared to pay for a patch? I once brought Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 for $NZ60, probably one of the most bugged games ever, but I loved it so much I paid $NZ30 for the re-released patched DVD version 3 years later - for a while, it was the only PC game my GF wanted to play...worth every cent of the $80, IMHO. (and I had to wait 3 years to play the game 'properly')
The relevance to MTW2 is I paid $NZ100 for a game I've so far loved to bits, five bucks for an even more fun version doesnt sound so bad, regardless of what the original intentions of the Dev's and Customers was.
Although, shame no fully implemented hotseat will be included, its a bit sketchy in its current state.
(If someone knows the solution to the player not defending in battles against the AI, please link me!)
If someone knows the solution to the player not defending in battles against the AI, please link me!
That solution would be. . . a psychologist.
:smash:
:dizzy2:
This is not addressed to anyone in particular here but just at those who keeping doing this both here and at TWC:
If I see one more post along the lines of "I'm done with CA and TW and I'm uninstalling M2 and throwing it away and boo-hoo life sucks" I'm gonna shoot somebody.If you are truly that upset over a delayed patch, then go play WoW or something and leave all the people here who are actually enjoying this great game alone.
Take your drama somewhere else.
Then I think the time has come for you to shoot somebody :laugh4: A .38 should do the trick, but if you're more a fan of assault rifles, I'd recommend the good ol' AK47. Cheap, reliable, accurate :smash:
Anyway, I knew this would come up again, a delay, heh heh. I didn't expect anything else. It's just the way things go nowadays. One could think or expect businesses to become superior today and come to some sort of perfection in what they do, but it's only become worse and it will become worse in the future. O, money: the worst of them all to influence :smash:
I appologize if this has already been stated and take it for what it is worth-- since I am only loosely quoting the official Q and A from the Sega website, but they are recommending that you don't use the leaked patch that is going around because it is un-official and may do more harm than good.
Speaking of ranting about games and game theft, you might find this post interesting:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=81953
I wonder just how many people that come here complaining about M2TW would be eating crow if Sega published the game using the same copy protection trick as Ubisoft did with SH4.
Personally, I have fun with the game and I'm sure I will have even more fun after the patch and still more with the expansion, but it is still just a game and that is all it ever will be to me. To me there are just a ton of more important things in life to get upset about.
Cheers
Yeah that's true, so I'll have to stress: Install the unofficial patch at your own risk. Don't come whining about it if it doesn't work for you.
Maeda Toshiie
04-06-2007, 12:04
If you want to install the unofficial patch, install it on a fresh install of M2TW 1.0. Do not try to install it over v1.1. There are reports of CTDs with v1.1 but many have no problems with the unofficial v1.2 installed over v1.0.
zstajerski
04-06-2007, 12:04
Considering the expansion:
I realy hope that no one here will buy it... cause thats the only way we can influence Sega and CA!!!
We must demand, that if we pay good € fro a game it must meet the standards!!!
We deserve it!!
Bojkot CA and Sega!!!! :furious3:
Considering the expansion:
I realy hope that no one here will buy it... cause thats the only way we can influence Sega and CA!!!
We must demand, that if we pay good € fro a game it must meet the standards!!!
We deserve it!!
Bojkot CA and Sega!!!! :furious3:
But what are the standards? More particular: what are the standards of today?
From various posts at TWc and .com it appears the people who have got the leaked patch working have noticed the following:
-2 handed bug fixed
-Shield bug fixed
-Cav charges fixed
-Cav chasing routers is much better
-No passive ai
-Improved battle ai/siege ai
-No ladder bug
-Improved pikemen
-Smoother animations(?)
-Better diplomacy and alliances
-Better campaign ai(?)
-Gunpowder units can fire from walls if they have line of sight
All in all sounds like its pretty damn good patch, and it will be good once the official 1.2 is out.
Considering the expansion:
I realy hope that no one here will buy it... cause thats the only way we can influence Sega and CA!!!
We must demand, that if we pay good € fro a game it must meet the standards!!!
We deserve it!!
Bojkot CA and Sega!!!! :furious3:
After trying the new patch I say to hell with that.
I got my money's worth before the patch and with the patch, it is even better.
The expansion will only improve and no way can I turn down a chance to improve a already excellent game.
Anyway, a report from 1.2
First I would like to show this pic.
https://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9337/11sh7.th.jpg (https://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11sh7.jpg)
3 units of Norse Axemen against 2 feudal knights from Scotland.
The results are clear as you can see.
The charges are just murder and even worse now that the AI actually uses it's cavalry properly.
But once the charge is gone, the axemen goes to work and they make short work out of the heavy cav.
Well on to the campaign.
I tried a polish campaign and so far I'm loving it.
The first shock came when a hungarian princess came for a visit at Krakow(sp??).
She offered trade rights and I accepted.
I noticed that I could arrange a marriage with her and my faction heir.
Now in 1.0 and 1.1 the AI always accepted a marriage however not this time.
Instead she got insulted by the offer and not only that, she hit me with a counter-proposal.
Their proposal was that our princess marry their heir and have to pay a huge tribute each turn to them as well or else they will attack me.
I turned down this insulting offer and she ran off.
So my relations with Hungary is cold to say the least. No attack yet but I'm keeping my eyes open but I doubt they will attack.
They probably just wanted to show that they can insult people too.
Anyway, I built a army and attacked the rebel province west of Krakow(sp??).
Still no CTD so that's good and once again the AI tried to flank my archers when they got in range of the square.
Luckily I got melee troops close by so I could counter this flanking attempt.
And it seems the shield fix has made combat longer. And when my spear militia with silver armor attacked the archers and got in close-combat with them, they took no casualties at all.
The fight on the square was a bit of a tough one since my men got attacked from all sides(well except from behind but that would be a long pointless journey since they would have to run all the way around the town).
But I won nicely.
Also infantry aren't as spread out as they used to be.
After taking the city I attacked a rebel army just outside Krakow.
Once again a nice surprise. The AI didn't just stand there, they moved to attacked me. Here they used some nice strategy. They used woodsmen to try to keep me busy while their cavalry hit me on the flanks.
Luckily my polish nobles cavarly could sway off the cavalry charge with their throwing spears.
Generals_Bodyguard
04-06-2007, 13:33
Hi this is my first post. I just like to get rid of some misconceptions:
1) There is no good and bad patch. All the patches are the same.
2) All patches are the same size the confusion is between bytes and Megabytes coz ppl to think there are some of different size.
3)because of 2. the patch is NOT leaked.the problem is not caused of a leaked hotseat version patch.As i said all versions are the same and SEGA was the one that uploaded them to the sites.Hence technically it is not leaked (unlike the Half Life 2 saga).
4)The patch out now can only be installed unto M2TW 1.0.It will not work with M2TW 1.1.
Due to all this coming to the fore at the last minute. I would like to state that i am a little dissapointed that SEGA refused to tell us the real problem with the patch and blamed it on possibly bad upload...corrupted they say..I ask you if it is corrupted how can the patch be installed in the first place...It is completely fine on M2TW1.0.
This is clearly a big boo boo they made and are not admitting. They overlooked update from 1.1 which is unthinkable. ALtough someone has officially said it was their mistake.However he was not really forthcoming on exactly why and what was their mistake.Then they went on to say they were pressured by the fans to realease it fast.WHatever it is i believe the fans deserve to know the truth. The truth that someone in the technical side or QA overlooked a huge thing and not corruption during upload. I am pretty sure they knew what the exact problem is when they made the official statement which was like very long after the patch came out.
Inspite of this, i think SEGA was just being careful when they said they were not gonna support anyone using this patch. Firstly the oficial posts were made from their non technical staff. So he couldnt guarentee those using this version will not have problem if say u update it to 1.3 or for the expansion later. Even if the official patch will essentially be the same thing, i think to avoid compatibility issues in the future, everyone should reinstall the new official patch when it cones out.
PS This is not a rant..this is possibly the truth that are are not admitting because they dont want u guys to use the patch out now.
4)The patch out now can only be installed unto M2TW 1.0.It will not work with M2TW 1.1.
That is not true.
I installed 1.2 on a old 1.1 and I'm having no problem at all.
Generals_Bodyguard
04-06-2007, 13:44
That is not true.
I installed 1.2 on a old 1.1 and I'm having no problem at all.
Hmmm...there might be something different with ur 1.1. Something must be different with it. Are 2h units working properly?
Hmmm...there might be something different with ur 1.1. Something must be different with it. Are 2h units working properly?
Yes, everything is working as it should be.
Just read my long report above.
there has been lots of unofficial chatter that the leaked patch when applied over 1.0 works just fine.
I just stopped at the official forums and dont have time to pull through the 15 more pages of posts since I last checked....
Has anyone confirmed officially that the leaked patch when applied over 1.0 works fine?
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-06-2007, 13:55
After installing the patch properly i got completelly different game. Everything works and I am loving it: The so called missing units lol they took AWAY sargeant spearmen for England an i fully agree. Sorry CA for being a whiner- again
NagatsukaShumi
04-06-2007, 13:58
Considering the expansion:
I realy hope that no one here will buy it... cause thats the only way we can influence Sega and CA!!!
We must demand, that if we pay good € fro a game it must meet the standards!!!
We deserve it!!
Bojkot CA and Sega!!!! :furious3:
Why do that? Do you know if Kingdoms will be buggy, or are you presuming Kingdoms will be buggy? Please read about the leaked patch, it fixes alot of problems and as TB666 has said, it is actually pretty damn good, if a leaked patch is "all that" I am sure the final patch will be just as good.
Yes it would be nice if games were released without problems, fact is it won't ever happen, budget and just general human nature will dictate otherwise.
Some interesting facts, I have spoken to people who work in the games industry on feedback weeks at my University (I am doing a Games Design course....oh how I look forward to community relations :laugh4:) and there are some reasons as to why they don't get involved in the community at times.
1) They just don't have time, they are very busy, usually looking at ironing out problems.
2) They don't want to get involved in a flame war, they don't like to be targeted purely because they were nice enough to offer an explanation and work for the company. They are still human after all!
I respect that its annoying as a gamer to recieve games that aren't perfect or near perfect, but its just the same as being a football fan, its very annoying to get a team thats not good enough etc etc. Windows has had problems, I know plenty of people who still use it though. I doubt we will ever see a time where we get flawless games in our lifetime.
I understand the frustration, but maybe people need to understand that CA are indeed just people and there is no need to flame them as SOME people have done, thankfully most have being engaging their brain before typing.
Generals_Bodyguard
04-06-2007, 14:00
Yes, everything is working as it should be.
Just read my long report above.
hmmm....then i truly have to offer everyone my apologies for jumping to conclusions there..I will edit my post big time man..i thought i had it figured there..i guess we'll never know then until someone from CA or SEGA sez something...this makes it even more confusing then coz u are one of the rare ones...but it is possible because of all the post asking ppl to uninstall 1.1, ppl are perhaps not trying a 'proper' copy on 1.1.
hmmmm...sorry
Gaius Terentius Varro
04-06-2007, 14:03
I got a totally messed up game when i installed over 1.1 and working one on a clean (1.0) install. It took 5 times as long for the patch to install itself when i installed over 1.0
hmmm....then i truly have to offer everyone my apologies for jumping to conclusions there..I will edit my post big time man..i thought i had it figured there..i guess we'll never know then until someone from CA or SEGA sez something...this makes it even more confusing then coz u are one of the rare ones...but it is possible because of all the post asking ppl to uninstall 1.1, ppl are perhaps not trying a 'proper' copy on 1.1.
hmmmm...sorry
No need to say sorry.
It's a good tip for those that do have trouble with the game.
Generals_Bodyguard
04-06-2007, 14:11
Hi this is my first post. I just like to get rid of some misconceptions:
1) There is no good and bad patch. All the patches are the same.
2) All patches are the same size the confusion is between bytes and Megabytes coz ppl to think there are some of different size.
3)because of 2. the patch is NOT leaked.the problem is not caused of a leaked hotseat version patch.As i said all versions are the same and SEGA was the one that uploaded them to the sites.Hence technically it is not leaked (unlike the Half Life 2 saga).
4)The patch out now can only be installed unto M2TW 1.0.It will not work with M2TW 1.1.
Due to all this coming to the fore at the last minute. I would like to state that i am a little dissapointed that SEGA refused to tell us the real problem with the patch and blamed it on possibly bad upload...corrupted they say..I ask you if it is corrupted how can the patch be installed in the first place...It is completely fine on M2TW1.0.
This is clearly a big boo boo they made and are not admitting. They overlooked update from 1.1 which is unthinkable. ALtough someone has officially said it was their mistake.However he was not really forthcoming on exactly why and what was their mistake.Then they went on to say they were pressured by the fans to realease it fast.WHatever it is i believe the fans deserve to know the truth. The truth that someone in the technical side or QA overlooked a huge thing and not corruption during upload. I am pretty sure they knew what the exact problem is when they made the official statement which was like very long after the patch came out.
Inspite of this, i think SEGA was just being careful when they said they were not gonna support anyone using this patch. Firstly the oficial posts were made from their non technical staff. So he couldnt guarentee those using this version will not have problem if say u update it to 1.3 or for the expansion later. Even if the official patch will essentially be the same thing, i think to avoid compatibility issues in the future, everyone should reinstall the new official patch when it cones out.
PS This is not a rant..this is possibly the truth that are are not admitting because they dont want u guys to use the patch out now.
4)The patch out now can only be installed unto M2TW 1.0.It will not work with M2TW 1.1.
the point above cannot be confirmed yet as there has been reports of 1.2 wroking with M2TW1.1.However if u do have problem with the patch, then u should install it on a clean copy.
The actual reason for the problem of 1.2 cannot be speculated yet. I offer my apology for my hasty conclusion to this debacle. However i still think SEGA has to tell us the truth once the reason for the problem is known.
Well, being the sucker that I am, I cleared the decks so as to have this weekend to play with the new patch. It's too cold to take the kids fishing, no football on TV, I am not really worried about having to reinstall the vanilla, and i don't want to wait another week or so. Is there still a link to the unofficial patch floating around in the ether?
It looks like the problem may lie in the installer as it works fine for some and not for others. Probably only found it out at the last minute when a tester who must have installed it got the siege CTD, and would explain why the CA guy said the patch was working for him but not for others.
Generals_Bodyguard
04-06-2007, 14:20
It looks like the problem may lie in the installer as it works fine for some and not for others. Probably only found it out at the last minute when a tester who must have installed it got the siege CTD, and would explain why the CA guy said the patch was working for him but not for others.
Lusted TB688 has said his 1.2 worked fine on 1.1. Could it mean than that there is a good and a bad patch????:dizzy2:
No, i just think the installers a bit messed up and mostly works but sometimes doesn't.
So now that the patch has been delayed again do we know when its expected?
Barkhorn1x
04-06-2007, 14:26
Being upset and disappointed is perfectly understandable. However, ranting does no one any good and just makes the situation worse.
CA/Sega deserve a HEAVY dose of criticism for:
- Releasing a buggy game in the first place
- Pimping an expansion before they even bother to fix the problems w/ the initial release
- Botching the long awaited patch at the 11th hour
...and how does ranting make the situation worse anyway? We still don't have the patch - which puts a crimp in my weekend plans, BTW. And they are still going to release it - at some point - despite what is written in this forum.
Large gaming companies these days are just awful. We have this debacle and if any of play SHIV by UBI then you know what an unfinished buggy mess that release was (and still is as it is pending a 1.2 patch)
TeutonicKnight
04-06-2007, 14:31
Does anyone have a link to this leaked version of the patch? :)
Or has all trace of it been zapped?
There is a torrent of it doing the rounds.
Barkhorn1x
04-06-2007, 14:33
Why do that? Do you know if Kingdoms will be buggy, or are you presuming Kingdoms will be buggy? Please read about the leaked patch, it fixes alot of problems and as TB666 has said, it is actually pretty damn good, if a leaked patch is "all that" I am sure the final patch will be just as good.
Hmmm...believe you are missing the key point here. Patch 1.2 is a PATCH! It - allegedly - fixes many things that should not have been broken in the first place. And we have waited MONTHS for it to appear.
Given the history of CA and the last 3 Total War releases who in their right mind would NOT assume that Kingdoms will be buggy? :no:
Of course it'll hve bugs, all games have bugs and it is an impossibility to have a bug free game.
Will it be less buggy than M2Tw was at release? Of course it will, what do you thin those patches are?
FactionHeir
04-06-2007, 14:40
I wonder since people are installing it over 1.0 whether 1.2 includes the fixes of 1.1 at all that way?
pike master
04-06-2007, 15:24
from what ive heard the pikes visual animation bug was not fixed and their is no definite improvement in their perfomance. noting i said definite.
can someone verify this?
the visual animation bug being that they dont appear to have the pikes lowered a few moments before contact when in fact they are lowered.
NagatsukaShumi
04-06-2007, 15:34
Hmmm...believe you are missing the key point here. Patch 1.2 is a PATCH! It - allegedly - fixes many things that should not have been broken in the first place. And we have waited MONTHS for it to appear.
Given the history of CA and the last 3 Total War releases who in their right mind would NOT assume that Kingdoms will be buggy? :no:
Yes it is a patch, and I assure you I have missed absolutely nothing. As I intend to get a job in the industry I have a little more sympathy for those who work in it than the regular gamer.
It won't be 100% bug free, but to assume it'll be broken and worthless like SOME have done is a little bit daft.
You may have waited months for a patch, but so have I, yet I don't have any reservations with CA. I can wait, people need to do the same, yes I spent 40 quid on it, but their are already mods out there which improve its playability, why not give those a whirl in the mean time.
Yes, they missed their deadline, the only mistake CA have made here was by setting a release date for the patch. If you think TW is always going to be buggy, simply don't purchase it until you hear feedback on it from others. Football Manager is often buggy, I RARELY see the same reaction from that community, and they have had far worse problems than these on there games.
gruntfuttock
04-06-2007, 16:00
Can anyone with the patch say whether pre-patch saved games work with the patch?
Just a simple yes or no will do, but please don't answer if you have no patch/idea.
gardibolt
04-06-2007, 16:08
Does the patch fix the ballista/cannon tower screwup?
Can anyone confirm or deny if the patch (such as it is right now) is save game/campaign compatable?!?!?
.
Yeah, I would like to know the save game compability too. Someone please test and confirm? Gaius perhaps?
Zenicetus
04-06-2007, 17:58
Just wondering, (please flame my senselessness senseless for asking this) but is anyone prepared to pay for a patch? I once brought Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 for $NZ60, probably one of the most bugged games ever, but I loved it so much I paid $NZ30 for the re-released patched DVD version 3 years later - for a while, it was the only PC game my GF wanted to play...worth every cent of the $80, IMHO. (and I had to wait 3 years to play the game 'properly')
The relevance to MTW2 is I paid $NZ100 for a game I've so far loved to bits, five bucks for an even more fun version doesnt sound so bad, regardless of what the original intentions of the Dev's and Customers was.
No, I wouldn't pay for a patch, and I also resent game companies that release expansions that fix major bugs, without also releasing a patch that fixes bugs for the original release. So far CA hasn't done that, to my knowledge, but I've seen other companies do it.
What I would pay for, is a more expensive game up-front, if that higher cost meant the game company had enough extra man-hours to properly develop and test a polished product. Heck, I'd pay $100 for a new game if it was really solid on release, and I didn't have to go through this process of play, get frustrated, shelve it while waiting for a patch, pick it up again 3 or 4 months later, try to remember the commands, etc.
Now, I know enough about software development to understand that throwing more money and/or people at a problem doesn't necessarily get things done faster. The real problem is rushed release schedules.... they just need to keep these things in the can for another 6 months. If a higher up-front cost for the game would help hold off the wolves in the accounting dept., I'd pay it.
Barkhorn1x
04-06-2007, 18:20
Sigh....too many prepared to forgive too much. :no:
So perhaps all of you can forgive my oh too candid honesty. This will be the last post from me on the subject of CA dropping the ball bigtime. Odin stated it best methinks:
Essentially (and quite brilliantly) the gaming industry has set up conditions where the end user pays for a product before its finished, and helps to finish the game themselves. its a great business model, for the dev/publisher, why wouldnt they continue this business model?
One reason, the consumer no longer supports the process with thier purchase.
Babblearossa
04-06-2007, 18:39
Does anyone have a link to this leaked version of the patch? :)
Or has all trace of it been zapped?
The torrent posted earlier in this thread, about page 6, has plenty of peers for reasonable speed d'loading. And I'm quite pleased with CA for their statement about not trying to stop the circulation of the pre-release patch, to me it seems a nice solution for the snafu and this long easter weekend.
Yeah it's not supported and I'll muck about a bit uninstalling/re-installing but considering the amount of time I spend playing this game the install time is nill. Hopefully I'll have time to get slaughtered due to new battle behaviors over the weekend and start a new long campaign when the official comes out and I can hold my own again :)
nickwwest
04-06-2007, 18:48
Here (again) is the link to download the torrent file, as stated before is patch is not supported by CA/SEGA, use at your own risk:
URLs to come, my first post can't be helpful I guess
So if you're still confused:
1. DL & install utorrent
2. DL the .torrent file
3. "run" the .torrent file to get it to start DLing in utorrent. Also if you are using a hardware firewall you'll need to ensure that the utorrent port is forwarding properly.
nickwwest
04-06-2007, 18:54
Here are the URLs:
http://www.gortosch.homeip.net/MIITW_Update2_Final_EFIGS.exe.torrent
And if you need a program to DL torrents I use uTorrent:
http://www.utorrent.com/
Durallan
04-06-2007, 18:55
No, I wouldn't pay for a patch, and I also resent game companies that release expansions that fix major bugs, without also releasing a patch that fixes bugs for the original release. So far CA hasn't done that, to my knowledge, but I've seen other companies do it.
What I would pay for, is a more expensive game up-front, if that higher cost meant the game company had enough extra man-hours to properly develop and test a polished product. Heck, I'd pay $100 for a new game if it was really solid on release, and I didn't have to go through this process of play, get frustrated, shelve it while waiting for a patch, pick it up again 3 or 4 months later, try to remember the commands, etc.
Now, I know enough about software development to understand that throwing more money and/or people at a problem doesn't necessarily get things done faster. The real problem is rushed release schedules.... they just need to keep these things in the can for another 6 months. If a higher up-front cost for the game would help hold off the wolves in the accounting dept., I'd pay it.
you better be talking $100 australian dollars, their aint no way in hell I'm paying 130-150 AUD for a bug free game, even if its a bug free game.
Who has been to a theater to see a film that afterward they didn’t like? Or attended a sporting event where your team is pathetically crushed? I know I have. Neither is very entertaining. Yet I paid for them all. No refund. No recourse.
I lump games in with all other entertainment such as movies or sporting events.
Games with bugs are like bad films. You pay hoping you like the product but knowing that you may not. The advertisements for both promise satisfaction but you get no money back from Paramount nor do you get a free ticket for a remake. You get stuck.
At least software companies can patch errors as CA is trying to do. In the meantime we can walk the dog, watch a ballgame, go out to dinner, read a book or play something else. The patch will arrive in its' own sweet time.
Zenicetus
04-06-2007, 19:05
you better be talking $100 australian dollars, their aint no way in hell I'm paying 130-150 AUD for a bug free game, even if its a bug free game.
Okay, what if it was a bug free game, and you got the expansion free? ~:)
Nah, that probably wouldn't work... the game companies wouldn't have enough incentive to work on a great expansion. Well, it was just a thought. I know the market isn't going in this direction.
@Nelson
No matter how we twist or turn it, bugs shouldn't be! And buggy games aren't like bad films (you see in theatre): the experience is totally different. As you said at least they patch the game, but that also means you're stuck with it for who knows how long. Walk the dog, read a book, go to dinner, etc., pffff... I don't see how that's important to this. Point is: they must deliver good work, and not something half as good, or worse, or a bit better, NAY, the real thing is what it should be right away!
:bow:
Durallan
04-06-2007, 19:18
Okay, what if it was a bug free game, and you got the expansion free? ~:)
Nah, that probably wouldn't work... the game companies wouldn't have enough incentive to work on a great expansion. Well, it was just a thought. I know the market isn't going in this direction.
only if the expansion came with the game there and then, and I would only pay 130 AUD MAX. If it was all completely bug free.
Babblearossa
04-06-2007, 19:33
This discussion of bug free programs is silly. Sometimes I ask in interview if the person can make bug free programs, the answer I want is 'of course not'. The most trivial program still must run on a computer, the cpu has bugs ( search 'intel errata' ), the operating system kernal has bugs, the rest of the operating system has bugs, the video card chips have bugs and the drivers to interface with the card have bugs, the hard drive firmware has bugs, the compiler for your program has tons of bugs.
The only thing programs can do is minimize the bugs that affect them, minimize the effect of the bugs that do and deal with rest as gracefully as possible.
Demanding bug free programs is like demanding world peace, it's a good direction to go in but you'll never get there.
Hoplite7
04-06-2007, 20:20
All this reminds me of RTW 1.2
All this reminds me of RTW 1.2
Sort of except when it comes to quality then M2TW 1.2 is actually RTW 1.3(maybe even 1.5).
Fixed some big bugs and improved the AI.
gruntfuttock
04-06-2007, 20:58
Can anyone confirm or deny if the patch (such as it is right now) is save game/campaign compatable?!?!?
.
Yeah, I would like to know the save game compability too. Someone please test and confirm? Gaius perhaps?
several of us interested here, can anyone spare a few moments away from testing shield bugs to give us a yes/no on this one?
thanks :)
Well I think most of us are using mods that doesn't affect the vanilla game and therefore don't create vanilla saves to test on :sweatdrop:
Atleast that's my case.
NagatsukaShumi
04-06-2007, 21:48
@Nelson
No matter how we twist or turn it, bugs shouldn't be! And buggy games aren't like bad films (you see in theatre): the experience is totally different. As you said at least they patch the game, but that also means you're stuck with it for who knows how long. Walk the dog, read a book, go to dinner, etc., pffff... I don't see how that's important to this. Point is: they must deliver good work, and not something half as good, or worse, or a bit better, NAY, the real thing is what it should be right away!
:bow:
But why should games companies produce a product that is perfect when as Nelson stated other forms of entertainment are allowed not to?
I think using the expansion against them is a poor argument (as some people have used it), it will have been in development at the same time as the patch and seen as CA has expanded since its humble beginnings, I doubt it hindered it in any way.
Yes, some of the bugs SHOULD have been found, but they weren't, I doubt CA would deliberately release a broken game when they intend to make FREE patches to fix them, why waste manpower and money to do that?
I am sure I'll be labelled a CA apologist or something of the sort mind. I care that the patch hasn't being released, but there is an honest answer as to why and frankly, I can find things to do to fill the time, everybody could do that I am sure. I know it sucks that you paid 30 quid for a "broken" game, but honestly, try the mods as they do work wonders, play the older games to relive the memories, its not all that bad, MTWII is STILL a decent game despite some of its failings lets remember that. CA shouldn't have given a date for the patch, thats all I can see that they have done wrong, alot of companies would probably send out a half arsed patch then ignore the game from then on, atleast CA is trying.
Positive news is that as far as some have reported, the patch fixes the bugs, so it sounds like it'll be a great patch come release.
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