Grumpies .mesh

[dietre]

I got this great tool. read the text files and edited a model.
I took 2 models, used the body from1 and spear/shield from the other. Now when i use the merge feature, i see the body with no weapons, the 2nd will add the spear/shield......so far so good

Now when i save the unit with a NEW name and the ms3d file it is saveing the file as a FILE, not a .mesh or a ms3d. and thus I cant convert it and use it in game...


Any thoughts from someone who has added a new unit ?????

[dietre]

Ok. when saving I add .ms3d to filename and now its working fine.

I was saying Filename : heavy_spearmen_lod0
saveas : milkshape.ms3d


i thought this would be fine but i was getting the problem i stated above.
so i started doing this

filename: heavy_spearmen_lod0.ms3d
saveas : milkshape.ms3d

Now grumpies converter will read the new .ms3d. I can edit the new figure in milkshape and convert it to a .mesh file
Only thing i havnt done is tried it in game, however the files are saving correctly.

If your a rookie at modding models then I hope this helps.

Thanks Grumpy for the amazing TOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dietre]

OK I GOT A QUESTION I WONT ANSWERE MYSELF.

Why do some units have lod0,lod1,lod2,lod3
and some only have 3 lod0,lod1,lod2

What is the difference ???

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi dietre


Ok. when saving I add .ms3d to filename and now its working fine.

I was saying Filename : heavy_spearmen_lod0
saveas : milkshape.ms3d


i thought this would be fine but i was getting the problem i stated above.
so i started doing this

filename: heavy_spearmen_lod0.ms3d
saveas : milkshape.ms3d

Now grumpies converter will read the new .ms3d. I can edit the new figure in milkshape and convert it to a .mesh file
Only thing i havnt done is tried it in game, however the files are saving correctly.

If your a rookie at modding models then I hope this helps.

Thanks Grumpy for the amazing TOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right, I just checked my code, and I didn't put a trap in there to catch no file suffix :oops: , I'll fix that, test it and post it shortly.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Roman_Man#3]

OK I GOT A QUESTION I WONT ANSWERE MYSELF.

You cant really expect someone to answer that quickly after you post, just give them time.

[Lord Condormanius]

OK I GOT A QUESTION I WONT ANSWERE MYSELF.

Why do some units have lod0,lod1,lod2,lod3
and some only have 3 lod0,lod1,lod2

What is the difference ???

If I am not mistaken, each 1 represents a different configuration of that particular unit based on the specified texture file. If there are three lod files, there will be three different combinations of parts (heads, legs, etc.) on the battlefield.

LC

[dietre]

Roman_Man#3:

I just ment that i couldnt figure that out on my own. After I posted my original question I figured it out and posted the results....

hence the 15 min between posts !!!!!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi dietre


OK I GOT A QUESTION I WONT ANSWERE MYSELF.

Why do some units have lod0,lod1,lod2,lod3
and some only have 3 lod0,lod1,lod2

What is the difference ???

I'm assuming you understand that lod means level of detail and is just used to indicate more detailed figures (0) to less detailed figures (2 or 3), which figure is used is based on how far it is away from the camera.

I'm not sure why some figures have 3 lods and others 4, if you have a look at the textures you can see that there were quite a number of artists involved (different styles, layouts, etc) and probably the same is true of 3d modellers (where they aren't the same). Lod work is not easily handed over to an automated process successfully and is time consuming work. My guess is that 3 lod levels was the minimum and some artists/modellers provided 4.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi All


Hi dietre

You're right, I just checked my code, and I didn't put a trap in there to catch no file suffix :oops: , I'll fix that, test it and post it shortly.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

I've just uploaded the corrected zip to http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/M2TW_Uploads/MP_replays/Mesh_2_ms3d_beta_1_7.zip

I had to put it into MP_replays because that was the only uploader I could find.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

I got another question for grumpy.
Um i used the pike_militia_ug3 .mesh's. used ur tool and saved their body. next I used the armoured sergeants and saved the spear/shield.
I used ur tool to combine them using the pikemilitia body 1st. Saved them as heavy_spearmen.ms3d and then coverted it to a .mesh and put it back into the game folder to be used. now because the pikemiltita body hasnt changed im assuming that the texture from the pike_militia will work fine.

I wrote my code in model.db.

The game starts up and runs 100% so i know there isnt a error in the model.db or it would have ctd as soon as it tries to load. now if i go into a custom battle and chose the heavyspearmen on my army. once the game starts to load the battle it will crash. In the error log it simply say Medieval bla bla bla has encounter an unspecified error.

Is there something in the milkshape that i have to manualy add entires to , i thought i read someone about verticles getting modified or something of that nature.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.
and I didnt use the weld fuction or anything like that. I followed grumpy's notes to the Letter.

[Lord Condormanius]

I got another question for grumpy.
Um i used the pike_militia_ug3 .mesh's. used ur tool and saved their body. next I used the armoured sergeants and saved the spear/shield.
I used ur tool to combine them using the pikemilitia body 1st. Saved them as heavy_spearmen.ms3d and then coverted it to a .mesh and put it back into the game folder to be used. now because the pikemiltita body hasnt changed im assuming that the texture from the pike_militia will work fine.

I wrote my code in model.db.

The game starts up and runs 100% so i know there isnt a error in the model.db or it would have ctd as soon as it tries to load. now if i go into a custom battle and chose the heavyspearmen on my army. once the game starts to load the battle it will crash. In the error log it simply say Medieval bla bla bla has encounter an unspecified error.

Is there something in the milkshape that i have to manualy add entires to , i thought i read someone about verticles getting modified or something of that nature.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.
and I didnt use the weld fuction or anything like that. I followed grumpy's notes to the Letter.

Are you using the proper attachment set for the shield in modelsdb? It is possible that the game does not crash at launch with this type of error in modelsdb. Syntax Errors (if that is the proper term) in the modelsdb cause the crash at launch.

EditThe skeleton info and attatchment set should match up with the sergeant spearmen in this case.

LC

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Dietre


I got another question for grumpy.
Um i used the pike_militia_ug3 .mesh's. used ur tool and saved their body. next I used the armoured sergeants and saved the spear/shield.
I used ur tool to combine them using the pikemilitia body 1st. Saved them as heavy_spearmen.ms3d and then coverted it to a .mesh and put it back into the game folder to be used. now because the pikemiltita body hasnt changed im assuming that the texture from the pike_militia will work fine.

I wrote my code in model.db.

The game starts up and runs 100% so i know there isnt a error in the model.db or it would have ctd as soon as it tries to load. now if i go into a custom battle and chose the heavyspearmen on my army. once the game starts to load the battle it will crash. In the error log it simply say Medieval bla bla bla has encounter an unspecified error.

Is there something in the milkshape that i have to manualy add entires to , i thought i read someone about verticles getting modified or something of that nature.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.
and I didnt use the weld fuction or anything like that. I followed grumpy's notes to the Letter.

It's hard to say, if you've made any sort of mistake in the text entries (apart from format) the game will crash about halfway through the battle loading bar, also the same for a non-valid mesh file. For a first attempt try using figures and weapons from the same folder so that you don't have to worry about remapping uv values for weapons to a new texture, maybe use italian_spear_militia rather than armoured_sergeants.

Post your text entries so that people that know more about them than me (not hard) can have a look at them.

Incidentally the previous fix worked too well and was attaching '.ms3d' to anything that wasn't nailed down. Another fix has been uploaded to http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/M2TW_Uploads/MP_replays/Mesh_2_ms3d_beta_1_8.zip

Don't grumble this is a beta release and you are all my guinea pigs and lab rats :laugh4: :laugh4:

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

For a first attempt try using figures and weapons from the same folder so that you don't have to worry about remapping uv values for weapons to a new texture, maybe use italian_spear_militia rather than armoured_sergeants.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

can u briefly explain remapping uv values for weapons to a new texture.
i have re textured many a .dds so i will probaly understand.
The only thing i can think of is since the attachment set for the kite shield would match the attachments for the shield/spear, some of the helmets are in the attachment set for the pike_militia. I thought the model would be clear where no texture was for it. but could the game crash if it was looking for the attachment set for the pikemilitia even thou the model.db told it to look for the kite.

What about using the norman_knights texture and combining it with an archer to create a norman_archer. If i use grumpies converter, i can make the norman body, have the bow and quiver and 2ndary sword. would i simply use the norman_knight texture with say the muslim archers attachment set??
(if i use the muslim archer for the swap) ????

Im gonna try to take the mounted sergeants and get rid of the spear with grumpies converter and make the sword his primary. so i can make a simple militia unit. (spear_militia with a sword) that should be straight forward for starters.

But please if it isnt too much what do u mean by re-mapping a texture file, and whats ur thoughts on this norman_archer.

sry for the questions, but this is how u learn, hehe

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi


For a first attempt try using figures and weapons from the same folder so that you don't have to worry about remapping uv values for weapons to a new texture, maybe use italian_spear_militia rather than armoured_sergeants.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

can u briefly explain remapping uv values for weapons to a new texture.
i have re textured many a .dds so i will probaly understand.
The only thing i can think of is since the attachment set for the kite shield would match the attachments for the shield/spear, some of the helmets are in the attachment set for the pike_militia. I thought the model would be clear where no texture was for it. but could the game crash if it was looking for the attachment set for the pikemilitia even thou the model.db told it to look for the kite.

What about using the norman_knights texture and combining it with an archer to create a norman_archer. If i use grumpies converter, i can make the norman body, have the bow and quiver and 2ndary sword. would i simply use the norman_knight texture with say the muslim archers attachment set??
(if i use the muslim archer for the swap) ????

Im gonna try to take the mounted sergeants and get rid of the spear with grumpies converter and make the sword his primary. so i can make a simple militia unit. (spear_militia with a sword) that should be straight forward for starters.

But please if it isnt too much what do u mean by re-mapping a texture file, and whats ur thoughts on this norman_archer.

sry for the questions, but this is how u learn, hehe

Have a look at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1635057&postcount=156 where I've given similar information. To make a Norman archer you will have to use an attachmentset texture that covers all the equipment you're merging. As I've said before, try a merge using figures and weapons from the same folder, they aren't too hard to find and it's easier as a first exercise.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

2 more questions for you.


1) if i take the mount_sergeant_ug1 lods and convert them, they have a sword and spear. spear being primary, sword being secondary. Now if i delete the spear, the sword remains and i have my simple new unit i called militia_sergeants. (simple to learn from). Now in groups the sword is listed as secondary_sword 23 (mat:attachments). in comments its says Secondaryactive0
secondary_sword 23
Im assuming the 2nd line is matching the group name (SO NO CHANGE TO THIS ????) i just change the secondaryactive0 to PRIMARYACTIVE0 ??


2) again to learn i took the militia_sergeants and tried to remap the uv from 1 kite to another. i figure this is a simple way to learn the basics here. What i tried was moving the last kite entry from the all yellow shield (hre) to the shield above it that was black with a yellow cross. if i simply click MOVE i can move it up to the new texture. I can click region and get real close to viewing the shield so i can make it perfect. now if i save and exit, reopen the shield is back at the yellow :wall: soooo I must hit REMAP after i move it right ???? so i do all the steps above and hit reMap. now the shield becomes massive and its hard a Hades to make it "small" again. :wall:

please :help:

thanks guys.
im very close now to understanding this. hehe
if it wasnt for u's, most notably grumpy i wouldn't have a clue.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Dietre


2 more questions for you.


1) if i take the mount_sergeant_ug1 lods and convert them, they have a sword and spear. spear being primary, sword being secondary. Now if i delete the spear, the sword remains and i have my simple new unit i called militia_sergeants. (simple to learn from). Now in groups the sword is listed as secondary_sword 23 (mat:attachments). in comments its says Secondaryactive0
secondary_sword 23
Im assuming the 2nd line is matching the group name (SO NO CHANGE TO THIS ????) i just change the secondaryactive0 to PRIMARYACTIVE0 ??

The most important part of the group comments is the first line where the group class is set, this tells M2TW how to treat the group. The second line is used for matching random choices in that class. So yes change 'secondary' to 'primary' in the first line. It's good editing practice, especially if your going to share your mods with other people, to change the second line and even the Milkshape group name, to reflect any changes you've made. If you're changing a lance armed figure to a sword armed figure don't forget that you also have to modify their bounding sphere in Model/Comments. Find a sword armed figure, matching mounted or foot and copy it's bounding sphere to your figure.



2) again to learn i took the militia_sergeants and tried to remap the uv from 1 kite to another. i figure this is a simple way to learn the basics here. What i tried was moving the last kite entry from the all yellow shield (hre) to the shield above it that was black with a yellow cross. if i simply click MOVE i can move it up to the new texture. I can click region and get real close to viewing the shield so i can make it perfect. now if i save and exit, reopen the shield is back at the yellow :wall: soooo I must hit REMAP after i move it right ???? so i do all the steps above and hit reMap. now the shield becomes massive and its hard a Hades to make it "small" again. :wall:

please :help:

thanks guys.
im very close now to understanding this. hehe
if it wasnt for u's, most notably grumpy i wouldn't have a clue.

This change should work and be saved (don't use the REMAP, this completely remaps your group, losing all uv info). I've just tried it and it works fine. Make sure you're saving and reopening the same file. Maybe hit the Menu/File/New option between saving and loading to refresh.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Casuir]

If I am not mistaken, each 1 represents a different configuration of that particular unit based on the specified texture file. If there are three lod files, there will be three different combinations of parts (heads, legs, etc.) on the battlefield.

LC

The lod1,2,3 files are lower detail versions of lod0 the engine uses at greater distance.

[dietre]

LOL bounding sphere:inquisitive:

heheh i forgot about that. LOL maby thats why my 1st unit looked like broken crystal.

I try your info out and report my progress. im sure i opened the proper file, thats why i thought i needed to remap.

thanks for u help. actualy ALL your help on this.

you must be like :wall: Man Another question. LOL

thanks again

[dietre]

what exactly does the bounding sphere do. and when u mean simular unit. you talking for the primary weapon ???

If i take the mounted_sergeants. delete the spear and make the changes to the sword for primary. I can the dismounted_feudal_knight bounding sphere?

im trying this now. its 600 am here so hopefuly i'll find my answere. heheh

OH and i am able to remap the textures now. the saves are working.

[dietre]

https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7573/0000ns9.jpg


:wall: :wall: :wall:

ever see this B4

1st guys are dismounted feudals, all i did was open in milkshape and moved a couple shields to new texture. guys in behind are my new units.

[Casuir]

Interesting, look like your gemetry got messed up somewhere, changing the uv mapping definitly shouldnt cause that and I doubt the bounding sphere would cause it. Can you go through step by step what you did?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Dietre


what exactly does the bounding sphere do. and when u mean simular unit. you talking for the primary weapon ???

If i take the mounted_sergeants. delete the spear and make the changes to the sword for primary. I can the dismounted_feudal_knight bounding sphere?

im trying this now. its 600 am here so hopefuly i'll find my answere. heheh

OH and i am able to remap the textures now. the saves are working.

By similar figure I mean foot for foot or mounted for mounted as well as weapon, foot and mounted of the same figure have different bounding spheres.




:wall: :wall: :wall:

ever see this B4

1st guys are dismounted feudals, all i did was open in milkshape and moved a couple shields to new texture. guys in behind are my new units.

Looks like you've also done something to their mesh/vertices/triangles apart from uv values, remember don't weld vertices unless you know what you are doing. Try it again with a different figure (that definitely hasn't been converted before) and record all your steps. If it happens again, let me know and I'll arrange to get the Milkshape figures from you to check it.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

well my steps.
1.get the .mesh and use the converter to change .mesh to .ms3d
2.open in milkshape
3.click on tab/materials and assigned the heater shield .dds in the moldel and not the attachments
4.open the texture coordinate
5.moved a couple of shields around for new textures
6 saved
7converted back to .mesh
8moved the .mesh back into unit/models folder (in proper sub folder)
9started the game to test and thats what i got.

[dietre]

ok i simply took the armoured_sergeants .mesh
converted them to milkshape file
open them in milkshape and JUST SAVED
converted to .mesh
placed back in proper folder
started game to test and GOT THIS :wall:

https://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4253/00001wl7.jpg

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Dietre


well my steps.
1.get the .mesh and use the converter to change .mesh to .ms3d
2.open in milkshape
3.click on tab/materials and assigned the heater shield .dds in the moldel and not the attachments
4.open the texture coordinate
5.moved a couple of shields around for new textures
6 saved
7converted back to .mesh
8moved the .mesh back into unit/models folder (in proper sub folder)
9started the game to test and thats what i got.

Have a cold shower Dietre and read my post, I asked you to try it again with a new figure and see what results you got. What you've written may be what you remember but the figure you used may have been converted/reconverted. I'd like you to try it with a new figure that you haven't worked on before, so I can be sure that the original figure hasn't been corrupted. Noting down what you do is so I can check what steps you are doing with this particular figure. If the same result happens, I'll follow your steps with the identical figure and I'll look at my saved Milkshape figure and your saved Milkshape figure to see if there's anything obviously wrong with it.

If you're asking for help and I'm offering it, it pays to read the post carefully before jumping in with a hasty reply.

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Dietre

Which version of Milkshape are you using? If it's not the latest version 1.8, this will happen. Go to the Milkshape site http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ and download the latest version of Milkshape. Try it again and see what happens.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

i wasnt trying to be hasty. I got a fresh unit (stock) converted it, converted back and tried it out without modifing a single thing. the screen shot shows that the milkshape was meshing something up on me. your link to 1.8 might help this as i was using the 1.7

is that what u wanted me to try. take a stock .mesh use the converter from .mesh to ms3d ? open with milkshape. Just save. converter back to .mesh and try it? all the other units in the game work fine if i dont convert them. I think milkshape is changing something because the when i open the file i get a "unknown verticle weight" after i save and reopen i dont get that error.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi dietre


i wasnt trying to be hasty. I got a fresh unit (stock) converted it, converted back and tried it out without modifing a single thing. the screen shot shows that the milkshape was meshing something up on me. your link to 1.8 might help this as i was using the 1.7

is that what u wanted me to try. take a stock .mesh use the converter from .mesh to ms3d ? open with milkshape. Just save. converter back to .mesh and try it? all the other units in the game work fine if i dont convert them. I think milkshape is changing something because the when i open the file i get a "unknown verticle weight" after i save and reopen i dont get that error.

Milkshape 1.8 has a whole new method of recording vertex information relating to weights, etc. The converter is not finding what it's expecting to find so is writing semi-garbage. Getting 1.8 will solve all this. If you have a registered copy of Milkshape the 1.8 will install and run off that initial registration.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

ok i got the 1.8 installed. I grabbed the stock halberd_militia_ug3
converted it to ms3d
opened with milkshape 1.8
saved without making anychanges
converted back to .mesh and started the game to test

The unit of halberds were 100% normal. no more wierd looking things. LOL

thanks for suggesting the use to 1.8 as this cleared up that problem.

no i will try that same unit with a simple remap of 1 texture (probaly will change their plain body armor to the 1 that has the "shirt" over it making the halberds look more professional. this should work very easy. im aspecting it to take me 10 mins, then ill post the pic of the new unit.

thanks grumpy for help this issue out of hopefully someone that has this problem will read this and know the fix for it. Once i get this milkshape down pat Im gonna make some sick units

Grumpy ur Converter is Awsome. Thank YOU and Everyone that worked with you to make it. and THANK YOU for helping me understand it.:beam:

[dietre]

ok this is the edited halberd_militia_ug3. i remaped the textures
this was just to practice and it worked. I might change the body5 to get some more variety but all en all it was a success.

https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4161/0000fm0.jpg

[dietre]

when u add two units together, why does the boundy sphere get 2 entries.
and by adding a kite shield to a unit, it doesnt show up in the attachments .dds

is there a way to get the new attachments to show up in the texture coordinater ??

[dietre]

well some possible conclusions i have made from playing around with milkshape are
1. the 2 bounding sphere entries are because grumpy's tool is taking to models and adding them together ?? so this is 1 part we have to edit? i did this fairly simply but doing what grumpy said and finding a simular unit and using their B.S.

2. if you hide the model parts and select ALL the "attachments" then assign the .dds you can easily map the textures. then unhide save and repeat for the models.


3. just by merging the units and changing the B.S. i got this in game

https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5598/0001wq4.jpg

4. by editing that same model (all the lods in milkshape) by the steps above i got this. Finaly my simple unit is created !! WOOT

https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9089/0002nv0.jpg

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Dietre


well some possible conclusions i have made from playing around with milkshape are
1. the 2 bounding sphere entries are because grumpy's tool is taking to models and adding them together ?? so this is 1 part we have to edit? i did this fairly simply but doing what grumpy said and finding a simular unit and using their B.S.

2. if you hide the model parts and select ALL the "attachments" then assign the .dds you can easily map the textures. then unhide save and repeat for the models.


3. just by merging the units and changing the B.S. i got this in game

https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5598/0001wq4.jpg

4. by editing that same model (all the lods in milkshape) by the steps above i got this. Finaly my simple unit is created !! WOOT

https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9089/0002nv0.jpg

Well done, we finally got there.

1. When I merge ms3d's I'm not aware of which values people think are the significant bounding sphere values so I just collected them both and let people decide and edit. If it's not edited only the first sphere values are used.

2. To show up in the TCW, groups must be selected in the main Milkshape window and chosen from the drop down in the TCW.

Now you've done it once it'll get easier.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[dietre]

NORMAN ARCHERS !!!!!!!!!!!!

i have taken my progress 1 step further. And its all thanks to grumpy's tool, his tips and info and my hard work.

Here are the new Norman Archers in action !!
https://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4402/0001wi1.jpg

and here are the norman archers with the 2ndary swords out and working.
https://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9127/0002qp9.jpg

[dietre]

well ive been very busy busting out new units.

IF ANYONE HAS A REQUEST FOR A UNIT. PM ME AND ILL MAKE IT.


https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4729/dmadx9.jpg
here is my dismounted mamluk archers. nice pic of their 2ndary weapon laying the smackest down.

i also have started on Dismounted royal mamluks and Quapukula (with maces) dismounted mamluk archers_ug1 and ug2 (heavymail and splint) and i have also started to remap texures of jessanary archers and am making their _ug2 (splint) I have made turkish jav _ug2 (made them like the me_leather like the spear militia. just my personal preference) Sergeant militia for european and Saracen infantry (swords) for turks and egypt. also u can see my norman archers on a previous post. So if anyone would like these units. please feel free to pm me and we can make arrangements to get em to you.