Inside Scientology

[Lemur]

I see that Rolling Stone has posted a massive article about L. Ron Hubbard's little project (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology), which should be worth a read. I am only aware of two uniquely American religions — The Latter-Day Saints and the Scientologists. There are some variations on Protestantism you could throw in there, Christian Science, for example, but these are mostly variations on a theme. Mormons and Scientologists, on the other hand, do not fit into the Protestant mold even slightly, and are therefore much more interesting.

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing just yet, but based on the first few pages it looks good and exhaustive. I'll be interested to see what my fellow Orgahs think.

Debating Scientology would be a nice break from the Backroom roster of favorites (gun control, abortion, Iran's aggressive guest procurement policies, etc.).

[InsaneApache]

Debating a religion is a change for the backroom! Your having a giraffe. :whip:

[Lemur]

Well, at least it's a different religion. You gotta take your pleasures where you can find 'em.

[Reenk Roink]

Sigh...

I don't understand the point of these threads (flat earth, scientology). All it does is seem to bring out 60 or so posts of mockery. :rolleyes:

I guess people need to feel better about themselves... :shrug:

For once I'd actually like to see why someones beliefs are actually better than scientology's or whatever pina[with a nya]ta subject they mock...

[Crazed Rabbit]

It's simple, Reenk -Christianity is based on the fact that Christ died for our sins, so that we might obtain eternal life.

Scientology is based on the fact that Hubbard was greedy, and formed so that he might get rich. It brainwashes, steals, sues everyone, and occasionally kills.

Crazed Rabbit

[Reenk Roink]

It's simple, Reenk -Christianity is based on the fact that Christ died for our sins, so that we might obtain eternal life.

Scientology is based on the fact that Hubbard was greedy, and formed so that he might get rich. It brainwashes, steals, sues everyone, and occasionally kills.

Crazed Rabbit

Not just Christianity; all religions, secular systems, philosophies, whatever...

I really wasn't talking about what crimes were linked to scientology, rather their actual beliefs.

It may seem ridiculous to "hail Xenu" or whatever but it's quite clear to me that the basis of scientology is no more firmly set than say scientism (and many of the mockers are coming from a scientistic/different religion) view.

[rory_20_uk]

It's simple, Reenk -Christianity is based on the fact that Christ died for our sins, so that we might obtain eternal life.

Scientology is based on the fact that Hubbard was greedy, and formed so that he might get rich. It brainwashes, steals, sues everyone, and occasionally kills.

Crazed Rabbit

And religions (especially Catholicism) got immensely rich by pure fluke? No, they went after money wherever they could lay their hands on it. Be it slavery, warfare or indeed (I believe) prostitution in the past.

Merely as other religions are based many years in the past does not absolve them of all sins whereas modern religions are by default guilty.

~:smoking:

[Yoyoma1910]

My favorite American religion is the Shakers, or the United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing, who have through a stringent policy of celebacy have (not) bred themselves into virtual nonexistence. They do make nice furniture though.

And though there are only a handfull left, the majority of which are quite old, I bet any one of them could beat Tom Cruise in an arm wrestling match.

[Pindar]

I see that Rolling Stone has posted a massive article about L. Ron Hubbard's little project (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology), which should be worth a read. I am only aware of two uniquely American religions — The Latter-Day Saints and the Scientologists. There are some variations on Protestantism you could throw in there, Christian Science, for example, but these are mostly variations on a theme. Mormons and Scientologists, on the other hand, do not fit into the Protestant mold even slightly, and are therefore much more interesting.

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing just yet, but based on the first few pages it looks good and exhaustive. I'll be interested to see what my fellow Orgahs think.

Debating Scientology would be a nice break from the Backroom roster of favorites (gun control, abortion, Iran's aggressive guest procurement policies, etc.).


I'm very familiar with Mormonism. I don't know much at all about Scientology. From the little exposure I've had, I don't know if it qualifies as a religion or even if its advocates make that claim. The few I've heard put forward it is not a religion, but a discipline that is meant to add to any other belief system. I'll have to read the article. I don't know enough about the movement I can really speak to it at all.

As far as American faith movements are concerned. You may be interested in this book:The American Religion (http://www.amazon.com/American-Religion-Harold-Bloom/dp/0978721004/ref=sr_1_1/102-3793796-7827333?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175711652&sr=1-1)

[InsaneApache]

My favorite American religion is the Shakers, or the United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing, who have through a stringent policy of celebacy have (not) bred themselves into virtual nonexistence. They do make nice furniture though.

And though there are only a handfull left, the majority of which are quite old, I bet any one of them could beat Tom Cruise in an arm wrestling match.

They came from Bury. In fact Bury FC are still called the 'Shakers' to this day.

BTW what's all that hanging their furniture on the wall all about? :inquisitive:

Religion...biggest scam ever invented. :yes:

[Spino]

Everything you wanted to know about Scientology but were afraid to ask...

http://www.xenu.net/

[Blodrast]

And religions (especially Catholicism) got immensely rich by pure fluke? No, they went after money wherever they could lay their hands on it. Be it slavery, warfare or indeed (I believe) prostitution in the past.

Merely as other religions are based many years in the past does not absolve them of all sins whereas modern religions are by default guilty.

~:smoking:

rory, you're confusing religion with church.

[rory_20_uk]

But surely Catholicism is a religion. It is a branch of Christianity which has only recently stopped trying to wipe out the others; aspects of what other branches believe is still heresy. You can't be of the Catholic faith without belonging to the Catholic Church.

~:smoking:

[Blodrast]

rory, come on. How can a concept get rich ?!
Catholicism, or any religion in general, is a system of beliefs. Concepts. Abstract things, without a material manifestation, if you want.
Church = the institution; it has a very physical manifestation. The institution, and the people leading it, got rich, committed atrocities in the name of whatever, etc. That does not make the system of beliefs wrong, or "guilty". As always, the flaw is in the people.

Would you like me to make an analogy that may be closer to home ? Ok, I'll try.
"Doctors" throughout the Middle Ages and before killed lots of people with their so-called medicine. Not intentionally, mind you - they thought they were helping the patient. But that's all they knew at that time. Does that mean that medicine, the concept, is bad ? No, of course not.
It doesn't even mean that all doctors are, or were, evil.
The inquisitors firmly believed that they would save your soul by burning you at the stake.
Crazy ? For sure. Ridiculous ? Absolutely. Utter madness ? By all means. Criminal ? You bet.
Can we infer that all churches = bad ? Nope.

Do you still see churches today calling for crusades, killing people, etc ? No, I don't think so. As for a few rotten apples - they are everywhere: in churches, in gov't, in medicine, in law enforcement, everywhere. That does not make the whole institutions, or the concepts they stand for and symbolize, inherently bad.

Well, it may not be the best analogy, but I hope I've managed to get my point across.

[Lemur]

As far as American faith movements are concerned. You may be interested in this book:The American Religion (http://www.amazon.com/American-Religion-Harold-Bloom/dp/0978721004/ref=sr_1_1/102-3793796-7827333?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175711652&sr=1-1)
Ooooh, that's a find. Thanks, Pindar.

[BigTex]

Were's Micheal Duchovny when you need him?

:end:

[Yoyoma1910]

BTW what's all that hanging their furniture on the wall all about? :inquisitive:



Where else do you put furniture, like on the floor where children can put their dirty hands all over it? Maybe the shakers should start making shaker sofa covers, in glorious vinyl. (this board needs a Jesus emoti-con).


So, when the Mormons get their planets, and the Scientologists get their UFOs, who will win the intergalactic war that will insue?

[Lemur]

So, when the Mormons get their planets, and the Scientologists get their UFOs, who will win the intergalactic war that will insue?
You know very well that can't happen -- only one religion can be right, after all. I'm putting my money on the Lutherans. Of course, South Park declared it was the Mormons, and lord know they've been right about a lot of stuff ...

[edit]

And hey, what's with the "all religion is an evil scam" posts? Where's that coming from? I wanted to take a look at Scientology, a subject about which all of us (except Spino) are rank idiots.

[lars573]

I've taken a look at Scientology. And concluded that L. Ron took Bhuddism and fused it with Capitalist greed. I though the Catholic church was bad for enriching itself on the backs of people in need of spiritual comfort, until I discovered scientology. You see I've had first hand interaction with Scientologists. I can say that every bad thing said about it is almost true.

[ajaxfetish]

From the little exposure I've had, I don't know if it qualifies as a religion or even if its advocates make that claim.
I've also got very limited exposure, and I'm not sure precisely how you would define some of the terms, but I do know they go by the name 'The Church of Scientology,' rather than just calling it a philosophy or lifestyle.

Ajax

[Ser Clegane]

In Germany Scientology calls itself a religion (of course they would have financial benefits if they would be officially acknowledged as a religion ~;))

[Xiahou]

For some reason I can't square Rolling Stone with any attempt at an objective, serious investigation of anything... The very thought makes my brain hurt.

[Lemur]

For some reason I can't square Rolling Stone with any attempt at an objective, serious investigation of anything... The very thought makes my brain hurt.
We need a list of the media sources we can't use around you, Xiahou. Please break them down into Sources That Contain Liberal Bias versus Sources I Don't Consider Sufficiently Serious. And please let us know if there are more categories.

Is it safe to quote The Economist around you? A lot of their writers are lefties, you know.

[doc_bean]

Is it safe to quote The Economist around you? A lot of their writers are lefties, you know.

Better make it Newsweek.

[Adrian II]

We need a list of the media sources we can't use around you, Xiahou. Please break them down into Sources That Contain Liberal Bias versus Sources I Don't Consider Sufficiently Serious. And please let us know if there are more categories.Could you please avoid using the word 'bias' from now on? It causes an uncontrollable twitch in my eight eye that makes it impossible for me to read on. I have missed quite a few of Xiahou's posts for this reason lately, and I would hate to miss yours, too.

[Pindar]

Ooooh, that's a find. Thanks, Pindar.

The literary patrician Bloom is always good reading. I remember I thought the book was interesting. I think you will like it.

[Vladimir]

The literary patrician Bloom is always good reading. I remember I thought the book was interesting. I think you will like it.

Hmm, Yale. Isn't that where the Al-Queda member is?

[Adrian II]

I don't know that Scientology is a religion, but it certainly gives Tom Cruise Da Power (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8530918890580805143).