War of the Roses

[Boyar Son]

Could someone explain to me what this war was about? It was fought in the 1600's right? I dont know anything about warfare in the 1600's (except the style)

[AntiochusIII]

Could someone explain to me what this war was about? It was fought in the 1600's right? I dont know anything about warfare in the 1600's (except the style)I'd save myself the time (and showing my own mediocre amateurism) with a Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses).

It happens in the latter part of the 1400s, by the way, not the 1600s. That's a long way off, between the start of the Tudors (the end result of the war, so to speak), to its end.

[Marshal Murat]

The rule of England could go to the House of Lancaster, or the House of York. Lancaster got the post, and York managed to get the king locked up for insanity. Then the two sides fought each other.
War of the Roses.

[Czar Alexsandr]

Yep. York and Lancaster both picked a rose to symbolize their faction, one white the other red, and fought over who would be king. I believe the Plantagenet line of kings was more or less disturbed. The King died without an heir and the Plantegenets and Warwick and all the English royal family members got themselves drawn into either the house of York or the house of Lancaster.

Long story short the last Plantegenet king dies in battle and the Plantegenet line ends. The victor of this battle, Henry Tudor, becomes king. King Henry VIII I believe.

On a side note.. my family is apparently the family the Plantagenet split from. (The first Plantagenet King, Edward Longshanks chosse a new last name as part of a PR thing a good advisor hinted at.)

[AntiochusIII]

King Henry VIII I believe.The 7th. The 8th is the wife-murdering one, father of Bloody Mary and Elizabeth, last of the Tudors.

[Watchman]

One often hears the War of the Roses referred to as the aftergame of the Hundred Years' War played out on English soil. Anyway, it was fought with standard mid/late-1400s Medieval tactics and techniques, with the curio that both sides were using the characteristic English longbow-tactic paradigm.

The 1600s strife was the English Civil War - in many ways an English sideshow of the Thirty Years' War on a smaller scale - and was waged with "Gustavian" Early Modern pike-and-shot tactics.

[Marshal Murat]

I think the two are separate because this one, in my mind, has a wider use of gunpowder as offensive weaponry, and battles between matched forces, not cavalry vs. archers.

[TevashSzat]

War of the Roses if I remember correctly from my history classes ended killing most of the nobles in England at that time allowing the victor (forgot his name) to centralize England around a monarch

[Incongruous]

The War could I suppose be blamed on Sommerset and the Queen (were they lovers?) There really was no need to insult the Duke of York in such a way.

[MilesGregarius]

There really was no need to insult the Duke of York in such a way.

?????

[Incongruous]

Sorry, rambled off to myself there.
I was merley reffering to the way in which the Queen and Her Associates treated the Duke, constantly accusing him of treason.

[MilesGregarius]

Sorry, rambled off to myself there.
I was merley reffering to the way in which the Queen and Her Associates treated the Duke, constantly accusing him of treason.

OK. Sounded like you were accusing one of the previous posts of disrespecting him.

[Incongruous]

:oops: I believe is needed:shame:
Anyway, it really was a very sad episode in English History. There was basically no trust between nobles. The polotics just before the conflict are possibly the most interesting in English history, with the exception IMHO of the 1630's and 1580's/90's.
It's also a great tale of Scoundrels, Heros (to their respective sides, the Beuforts, Warwick and Edward) and deeply troubled men. It is a great story, always has me in tears. Unfortunatley, Shakespeare really did destroy the common perception of it, I mean, the idea that Sommorset and York chose Roses is so OTT. In reality the Yorkists were under the banner of Edward and Richard, The Sunne In Spleandore, and the Bore.
Gods! I have almost ten really good books on it but since the shakeup of the personal library about two months back I can't find them. Probabaly been stowed away in the attic by accident. hmm...

[Boyar Son]

Ok

1. it happened in the 1400's
2. was a civil war
3. has the wussiest name for a war in history

any more plz?

[Incongruous]

I think it has the best name of any other war in history.
Heres my fave site on it http://www.warsoftheroses.com/
Its a bit light, but good for those whom wish to have an opener.

[Duke John]

The author of this site (http://www.warsoftheroses.co.uk/toc.htm) states that his work was too lengtly to be published so he made it available freely on the internet. Quite a good read if you don't wish to buy books.


2. was a civil war
They were not civil wars as common people were hardly affected by the conflicts. Campaigns were relatively short with both sides most of the time willing to fight decisive field battles. The battles are quite interesting as practically each of them has an unique turning point which decided the outcome.

[Watchman]

Given the fundamental "balkanization" to a greater or lesser degree inherent in all feudal systems, whether WotR can be defined as a "civil war" (which AFAIK in proper - although not everyday - modern usage actually has pretty strict definitions) is rather splitting hairs.

[Incongruous]

The author of this site (http://www.warsoftheroses.co.uk/toc.htm) states that his work was too lengtly to be published so he made it available freely on the internet. Quite a good read if you don't wish to buy books.


They were not civil wars as common people were hardly affected by the conflicts. Campaigns were relatively short with both sides most of the time willing to fight decisive field battles. The battles are quite interesting as practically each of them has an unique turning point which decided the outcome.

Nice site! I was wondering why I hadn't seen you pop you're head up in this thread.

[InsaneApache]

As a Lancastrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire) living in Yorkshire it still resonates to this day. The rivalry of the two counties is intense. I like to let the Tykes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_dialect_and_accent) know from time to time that we won though. :laugh4:

Edit: Although I was born in Manchester the city is no longer in Lancashire.:bow: