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The Black Ship
11-10-2000, 23:07
I'm sure we have all had the opportunity to wonder if an opponent has dropped or not. I mean you see his archers shooting, but nothing else is going on- even as you march towards them. Is there a 100% sure-fire way to know if they're there?
If not here's the dilemna, do you bypass him and leave an enemy to the rear? Or do you go for this Taisho, and potentially waste troops that could be helping your allies?
P.S.
And another thing, why does it seem that an abandoned army, just standing there, fights longer before routing? Or is it just me?

[This message has been edited by The Black Ship (edited 11-10-2000).]

Ai-jin
11-10-2000, 23:41
What would be nice is if a player drops, then the AI should take over so that its not just a wasted effort. because if you are playing a 2-2 match and your allie drops, then you can still have a chance of winning instead of being outmatched with a 2 on 1.

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The Black Ship
11-11-2000, 01:03
Ai-Jin,

We're gonna have to start calling you Vlad the impaler http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
The Ai taking over sounds fine by me, but what about the current dilemna.Can you be absolutely sure an enemy has dropped?

Ai-jin
11-11-2000, 01:22
I dont think you can EVER be sure unless u see a msg that player *** has dropped.

It's a tough situation that is for sure. Would I ignore him and help my ally? Or leave my allie to fight alone?

I am not sure what you can "really" do, or how you can tell if he is "truely" dropped.



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"The rivers will flow with blood from thy enemy"

Puzz3D
11-11-2000, 02:36
Oh boy. I wonder if we'll start seeing a "pretend that you've dropped" tactic? Last night I joined a 1v1 where the host had a latency of 700. Shortly after engaging the enemy, I got the "dropping player in 10, 9, 8, etc" for myself. I was dropped, and, upon going to the foyer, I immediately saw my opponent posting there. I concluded that it was the host that dropped, but I never saw any message to that effect in the game. I'm on cable modem and I doubt that I caused the drop, but I don't know for sure. Since I can't host myself (firewall), what does the host see, if anything, when he causes the drop?

11-11-2000, 05:37
well as i said before, the host is exactly what it says- the HOST, ie the hosting/serving (or whatever you want to call it) part of the game is running on his computer, therefore even if the host has a bad connection that causes troubles, to the game itself it's you who is missing and it considers you dropped(that's why You get the countdown, that's why You get a loss...get the idea...)

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the great lord http://www.geocities.com/vinyljock/monn_t.gif jd

Puzz3D
11-13-2000, 09:23
Blackship: In a 2v2 today, one of the enemies dropped, but he was further away from me and my ally so we didn't notice until after driving the first enemy army from the field. This dropped enemy had 12 Monks, 1 YS and 1 YA on a hill. Just for the fun of it, my ally went around the right rear side to kill the tashio. I weakend the tashio unit a bit with musketts, and also reduced two other enemy monk units to less than half strength with musketts. Once my ally got the enemy tashio running we attacked left flank and center with 4 YS, 6 WM and maybe 4 YC (none at full strength). All the enemy monks routed before we even engaged which saved us from loosing men. So, if you can get the enemy tashio, it's possible to get the rest to rout if you have the time to carry this out. The units on the hill were all honor=2 (I checked the logfile). If circumstances dictate bypassing a dropped army, I think you can avoid any morale penalty by giving the enemy army a wide berth. This is what I gather from some recent posts about flanking.

The Black Ship
11-13-2000, 09:46
Just hate the idea of leavin any enemy to my backside http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif Thus my relentless pursuit of a definitve answer.

So the troops fight better when standing idle thing didn't apply in your case eh? I'll just have to make sure I flank 'em good then http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net4/crazy.gif

FearedSangsara
11-13-2000, 16:29
The only way to tell if a person has dropped is to ask the host. That is, of course, assuming you trust him. Know how when you drop you get that red countdown message in the left bottom hand corner? The host also gets this message when somebody drops. So if you trust the host is honest, ask him. I know that when I host, if an opponent's ally drops, I ask him if he wants to continue or if he wants me to hit esc.

Also, about a person who has dropped's army, it has been my experience that once a person drops, their army doesnt count anymore. For example, say me and a friend are fighting against person A and person B. If person B drops, once we make person A completly rout, the game is over. You dont have to worry about person B's army. Leave em alone, dont waste men on them.

And on a side note, if you are defending in a game and your ally drops, set up your men behind his. Put those worthless soldiers to use! I have won against 3 armies by doing this before. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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.....F..E..A..R..F..U..L.........FearedSangsara..........W..A..Y..S.....
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[This message has been edited by FearedSangsara (edited 11-13-2000).]

The Black Ship
11-13-2000, 18:24
He ,He...

That's my favourite trick too Sang. Damn, now everyone'll be doing it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif. I get "player X is dropping" messages all the time, only to find they don't drop. Seems they can somehow recover, or the server's just messing with yur head (my personal opinion http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif).

Puzz3D
11-13-2000, 19:50
In my example, I forgot to mention that the first enemy general, who was also the host, was still in fact on the field hiding beyond the dropped army. The game didn't end until he was eliminated, so it doesn't negate what you are saying, Sangra, about the game ending before dropped armies are routed.

ElmarkOFear
11-13-2000, 21:46
Blackship,
One way in which i try to see if the enemy is still there or not is to run my general, who is in an archer group, to the front of my army with any other missile troops i have and start firing at his troops. I make sure that my general is not so far advanced in front of my troops to get caught, yet close enough to be a tempting target. Not many players have the patience to take this kind of abuse and that general is OH SO TEMPTING! Bwahahahaha
Another tactic which I have used to good effect, if I have a lot of fast moving troops, is to just blow right past his army marching quickly and let him try to play catchup with me . . . If he chases then i turn around and crush him . . but this take a lot of practice to get your men in reverse formation quickly. This techniqwue is also good for bringing someone down from a high defensible position too.
Good luck and cya on the battlefield,
ELmarko of Fearful Ways

Obake
11-13-2000, 23:16
There are a couple of things to remember here guys. If a person drops, it is impossible for the AI to take over since the connections are peer to peer. Secondly, since the connection is peer-to-peer, the host CANNOT drop as JayDee mentioned. So Puzz, even though the drop may have been the hosts problem, you are the one who got dropped and took the loss! (Sucks don't it?!?)

Sang is right though, once a person drops, that army is no longer factored into the battle equation. Those troops will still respond if attacked and ranged units will still fire on any enemy within range but they no longer have an effect on the morale of your troops (ie flanking or enemy to the rear). They do not need to be routed to end the game either, although I have run into situations where I must go through them to get to a specific tactical position I want. I hate this part, because I end up losing troops getting there, but it's a calculated risk on my part. I find that IF you HAVE to go through a dropped army. Only attack the units you need to attack. For instance, using Puzz's example, those WM units would not engage unless they were attacked. None of a dropped army's units will automatically go offensive(unless set to skirmish, like archers).

Truth be told Ship, the only way to definitively know if someone dropped is to attack them and see how they respond. Just be ready in either case!


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Obake http://members.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net8/laghost.gif

We are but shadows of our former selves and the sons and daughters of lions have become sheep. I am the ghost of our past.

ElmarkOFear
11-14-2000, 00:47
Obake,
YOu must have gone to the Caveman School of Tactics and Strategy. "Me beat'm over head with big stick. See if they grow big bumpy thing on head." I prefer my method better it has more . . "FINESSE" :P Bwahahahahahah
Elmarko of Fearful Ways

The Black Ship
11-14-2000, 05:15
OK, got it...
Obake is a Nobunaga proponent, while Elmark is more Hideyoshi inclined. Guess I'll have to be Ieyasu http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

solypsist
11-14-2000, 05:21
so i guess that makes me everyone else (except Mitsuhide)

Puzz3D
11-14-2000, 10:13
Ok, thanks for the info about hosting. I had a lot of drops this past weekend in 1v1, and I was concerned that the host might not realize that I wasn't in the game. Some of these drops were due to me trying to play people with high (