Beginner Playing As The Irish

[Jamie the Shrubber]

Hi everyone. This is my first post and I'm exhausted because I spent most of the night playing MTW!!! Its incredibly immersive. I've put the game setting on normal and, because I like a challenge, I chose to play Ireland which the game says is hard to do. I'm also of Irish descent so it will be an interesting Irish history lesson with which I can use to impress my father!

I just want a bit of reasurance that I'm doing it right. I've noticed there are many other posts here that will be of use so I'll be reading them very closely too.

I have now captured all of Ireland and have been spending my time building different structures and churning out different fighters. I have trained hundreds of the fighters that have glass in their name (I can't remember it fully) and my battles have all been simple enough to win. Even when I was outnumbered by about 600 to 150 I still won with ease but I think thats because my army is made up heavily of the very strong glass fighters. Now my army is 1400 strong and any rebels I encounter are no match.

Do I just keep building and training as I'm doing in anticipation of major attacks from the east? Is Ireland classed as hard because of the Irish sea and the fact any invasions have to be done by crossing the water? I'll scour this site for tutorials but I just want to know if a total novice like me playing as Ireland is wise? I don't like playing games on easy settings because they end too quickly and there is no challenge.

Thanks for any replies!

[macsen rufus]

Well the Irish are an interesting faction, and well worth playing, but not sure about as the first campaign. It's because they are so different that it's generally best to have played another faction first so you appreciate the differences :beam: (but I wouldn't abandon your campaign now you're into it....)

The Gallowglasses do pack quite a punch, and armour piercing too, but their defence can be a little weak. You'll do fine against rebels, but will have a harder time against the saxon factions. And you're in for a real treat when the Vikings come calling :2thumbsup: You'll need to master the various missiles that the Irish have, as I'm sure you've already noticed the lack of archers. The kerns and bonnachts have armour-piercing missiles which can make quite a dent against heavily armoured opponents (ie Vikings!), and careful use of these will really help to fight off the Nordic raiders.

Definitely take a look at the guides section of the Guild, as there is a lot of distilled knowledge in there. Anyway, welcome to the Org, and beware the game is very addictive as there's so much to explore - put aside the next couple of years :laugh4:

[caravel]

Welcome, Jamie the Shrubber, the .org :bow:

I have now captured all of Ireland and have been spending my time building different structures and churning out different fighters. I have trained hundreds of the fighters that have glass in their name (I can't remember it fully) and my battles have all been simple enough to win. Even when I was outnumbered by about 600 to 150 I still won with ease but I think thats because my army is made up heavily of the very strong glass fighters. Now my army is 1400 strong and any rebels I encounter are no match.
The Gallowglass should be the Gall Gael which is the Irish term for those type of warriors (Gallowglass ('Galloglaigh') is the Scottish term). The gallowglasses in the game are strong attackers, when launched into the enemy flank they can be unstoppable, unfortunately their morale is lacking so you'll need a good general and a sound strategy if you you don't want to see the whole lot routing, when they start taking losses. The key is to concentrate on developing your gallowglass units by merging higher valour remnants together to create one elite unit, then sending these out to battle again. It is important to conserve your higher valour gallowglasses and not send them into suicidal attacks where they will take heavy losses. That sort of work is best reserved for the greener units.

Do I just keep building and training as I'm doing in anticipation of major attacks from the east? Is Ireland classed as hard because of the Irish sea and the fact any invasions have to be done by crossing the water? I'll scour this site for tutorials but I just want to know if a total novice like me playing as Ireland is wise? I don't like playing games on easy settings because they end too quickly and there is no challenge.

Thanks for any replies!
Ireland is actually rather easier than some of the other factions, such as the Welsh, Picts and Scots. Ireland can be defended easily if you work on gaining naval superiority. Your boats will prevent invasions from Britain and Scandinavia, so Ireland can be turned into a cash cow allowing you expand into Britain. The Vikings can be paralysed quickly by taking on their ships and sinking them. This stops them raiding and they will soon run out of money. Another good strategy is to deploy your bishops to their provinces to convert their populace to Christianity, this stops their raiding antics, turning them into a normal faction. The British factions that you're going to have to hit first are the two major English ones, that is the Mercians and Saxons. If left to it, one of them will conquer most of Britain. The trick is to keep them weakened and stop them from overdeveloping. Once the Mercians and Saxons start training Huscarles things will get a lot harder.

Aside from your gallowglasses some of your strongest units are the javelin throwers mentioned by macsen rufus. The Bonnachts and Kerns both throw what are basically armour piercing weapons, though the Bonnachts are in larger units, their weapon differs from the kerns. The Bonnachts vs Kerns debate goes on however. Dartmen throw lighter, non armour piercing darts, so they are best used as cheap stand-ins for archers or as garrison units (very low support), they won't do well against armoured units.

You seem to be doing well, try your next campaign on the hard difficulty, but I would advise against going above that, as expert gives an "unfair" morale bonus to the AI (easy gives you, the player, that bonus which is why it's also best avoided).

Well you've inspired me to play a VI/Irish campaign tonight. :2thumbsup:

:bow:

[ULC]

Also, play in adverse weather conditions. Rain, strong wind, and snow are your best friends, as these keep archers off your back and wear down those heavily armored foes. Your javelins and darts are unaffected in bad weather to boot. If the game persists in handing you perfect days, stick to forests. Again, this will help counter your opponents strengths. Caravel is absolutely right, Naval superiority is a top priority as the Irish.

[macsen rufus]

That sort of work is best reserved for the greener units.


But they're ALL green ~D

[Dark Water]

[QUOTE=Jamie the Shrubber]


I have now captured all of Ireland and have been spending my time building different structures and churning out different fighters. I have trained hundreds of the fighters that have glass in their name (I can't remember it fully) and my battles have all been simple enough to win. Even when I was outnumbered by about 600 to 150 I still won with ease but I think that's because my army is made up heavily of the very strong glass fighters. Now my army is 1400 strong and any rebels I encounter are no match.
QUOTE]

Hello There from one Irishman to another.........Yea naval superiority is a must as this stops people invading your provinces(Ireland is only five provinces) and gives you the option of doing so to them...Gallowglasses are my favourite type of units but they cant be relied on as the bulk of your armies, i find armoured spear men taking the brunt with the G-glasses at the flanks work pretty good.....the Saxons tend to be the toughest opponents(with Huscarls) in Britain, they are succeptable to missiles as are the Irish but have access to archers which the Irish don't......good luck

[caravel]

But they're ALL green ~D
I fell right into that one didn't I? :boxedin:

On the subject of Bonnachts and Kerns, I actually use both, but I use Kerns in a more "throw javelins and charge flank" capacity, whereas I use Bonnachts as skirmishers only. As I hinted above I use dartmen for garrisons and never train peasants. I believe the Armoured Spearmen are not available to the Irish IIRC? I certainly don't remember using them anyway. This means relying on your javelin throwers a lot more, to devastate cavalry before they get close enough to do any damage. In defensive battles the trick is to take your javelins off fire at will and have them hit a carefully selected target with controlled volleys. Aside from hitting the more obvious targets such as a unit of royal bodyguards, mounted nobles or huscarles, hitting a lower morale, non elite enemy unit with such a volley causing massive casualties may cause an instant rout, that could lead to a chain rout if you're lucky. Once the unit routs order them to stop and switch to another likely target. Making use of the woods is also a good idea, as gallowglasses with get even nastier if they charge out of a wood, downhill to ambush and flank the enemy. Ouch. Wood also provide protection against cavalry charges and cavalry are poor in woods.

:bow:

[drone]

The Irish do get Spearmen and Armoured Spearmen. With the high upkeep costs (compared to "native" troops), Spearmen are worse than useless to the Irish, but when facing Huscarles (and heavy cav), Armoured Spearmen are great for pinning and holding while the Gallowglasses and Kerns move to flank.

With the native troops, proper terrain usage is a must. Archers will outrange you, and cavalry will decimate you, so trees are your friend. Your troops are light and fast, so use this speed to tire out the enemy and gain the high ground.

Welcome to the Org, Jamie the Shrubber. ~:wave:

[Deus ret.]

Hmm I never played the Irish, although I'm somewhat surprised by the recommendation around here to hide in forests. Granted, English cavalry is superior to anything the Irish have, but against a sizeable chunk of opponents forests are more like a death trap.

I am speaking of the Vikings; as I said I never played with the Irish but I fought them. During this Viking campaign, I discovered that forests were my own best friend because they countered the only weaknesses Vikings have - relative vulnerability to missiles (I didn't bother to use any own) and utter lack of useful cavalry. Forests almost neutralize missile troops and cavalry and hurt spearmen (lack of formation) while the huscarles shine in them. Basically they hack everything to pieces with hardly any losses at all if they stay in cover. Irish troops make no exception and don't stand a chance against Vikings. The Gallowglasses do some damage but that's all. Those annoying AP missiles are next to useless in the trees....

Of course this applies to any faction which has access to huscarle-type units, so I'd strongly advise to stay out of the woods if the enemy field more than a few of those.

[Vladimir]

Good luck with them, I can never finish a campaign with them. I like making one stack armies and their paper thin armor and weak defense annoys me. You do always have Ireland however. Once you control the seas you're home free.

[Derfasciti]

Welcome to the .org I hope you find yourself welcome.


The Irish were my first VI campaign too,. Very fun, watch out for those Scots. A war with them could get very deadly - or at least it was for me.

[Vladimir]

Welcome to the .org I hope you find yourself welcome.


The Irish were my first VI campaign too,. Very fun, watch out for those Scots. A war with them could get very deadly - or at least it was for me.

That's why you make them your first target. :skull:

[Martok]

Welcome to the Org, Jamie the Shrubber! Glad you're enjoying MTW/VI so much. ~:cheers:

I can't really add to the advice everyone has given, except to emphasize the need to gain naval superiority over the Vikings as soon as is reasonably possible. Sinking the Norsemen's longships is the best possible defense against them. :yes:

For additional tips on how to play the Irish, I recommend you go here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31551).

[caravel]

Hmm I never played the Irish, although I'm somewhat surprised by the recommendation around here to hide in forests. Granted, English cavalry is superior to anything the Irish have, but against a sizeable chunk of opponents forests are more like a death trap.

I am speaking of the Vikings; as I said I never played with the Irish but I fought them. During this Viking campaign, I discovered that forests were my own best friend because they countered the only weaknesses Vikings have - relative vulnerability to missiles (I didn't bother to use any own) and utter lack of useful cavalry. Forests almost neutralize missile troops and cavalry and hurt spearmen (lack of formation) while the huscarles shine in them. Basically they hack everything to pieces with hardly any losses at all if they stay in cover. Irish troops make no exception and don't stand a chance against Vikings. The Gallowglasses do some damage but that's all. Those annoying AP missiles are next to useless in the trees....

Of course this applies to any faction which has access to huscarle-type units, so I'd strongly advise to stay out of the woods if the enemy field more than a few of those.
Yes hiding in the woods as opposed to fighting in them. Deploying into the woods is no defence against infantry units like the Huscarles, it will be in fact to their advantage as you have said. The usefulness of hiding in the woods is that your units become hidden, which means they can launch ambushes (charging out of concealment directly at the target for the bonuses/penalties). This is particularly useful for the strong attacking/charging units such as the Gallowglasses.

[CountMRVHS]

I haven't looked at the numbers in awhile, but I always prefer to use my Bonnachts as the chuck & charge troops, while my Kerns I like to keep out of range & firing their missiles -- partly because Bonnachts only have 1 spear each anyway, while the Kerns can keep on firing for a bit longer, but also because the Bonnachts seemed to do better in melee.

Kerns get a bonus in one of your provinces -- Laigin I believe -- so start building them there. Don't neglect the church buildings, as the morale bonus is definitely helpful for the Irish units.

A good target for your first step off Ireland is Manau. It's an iron province, and when I'm the Irish it usually ends up being the place where I produce buffed cavalry units. From there, it all depends on what the politics are in Britain -- you could try going after the strongest faction in order to prevent them from getting even stronger, or take on a weaker faction that you might have a better chance of defeating quickly. Keep in mind though that the southern provinces are richer, so it might be worth it to get a line of ships going around the south of England to invade there first. If that's not an option, a fun tactic is to make a stack of decent troops and just send them rampaging through England, forcing smaller stacks to retreat and destroying any provinces you actually take. Keep it moving, though -- you don't want to get stuck in one place and have the AI counterattack and wipe out out altogether. But even if that does happen, you're safe on your island.

Mercenaries are also a good friend to the Irish. Buy up any archers you can -- you can afford it, usually. Cav sometimes makes a good merc choice as well, and siege equipment can be useful. Keep in mind though that mercs are generally weaker in melee than trainable units, because they lack the morale & armor upgrades you can build yourself. Don't expect to win a war with them, but send your mercs out to weaken a foe and then attack the next turn with your real elite army.

Anyway.... have fun! The Irish are a good challenge.

[Vladimir]

Kern spam seems to be working well. A unit with minor upgrades also does extremely well against the peasants you'll fight early on.

[Jamie the Shrubber]

Thanks to you all for your useful replies. My SSTSIM Concorde has been left in the hangar for the last few days while I read about and play MTW and I don't think she will be making an appearance anytime soon!

Is there a keyboard command to zoom in and out of the map as that would be preferable to using the mousewheel?

[macsen rufus]

Is there a keyboard command to zoom in and out of the map as that would be preferable to using the mousewheel?

Not sure if you mean the campaign map or battle map, but on the battle map at least: "/" and "*" on the NUMBER PAD will raise and lower the camera, whilst "+" and "-" will tilt up and down. Not sure if there's any for the campmap though.

[Jamie the Shrubber]

Sorry I should have specified it’s the campaign map I want to be able to zoom in and out using the keyboard and not the mouse wheel. Even if there aren’t specific keys to do this could I edit a file perhaps to create them?


I restarted my Irish campaign yesterday because my first effort ended with me going in to the red and not being able to get out of it by about 901AD. I put this down to me building everything in sight without considering its usefulness at that stage of the game. Basically I was blindly pointing and clicking thinking my cash would last forever. On my second attempt the first thing I did was buy farms and improve the farmland by 40% for all my provinces. I'm now at about 820AD and my balance is a healthy 54000 Florins and increasing by about 3000 a year with every province at full production. Just as I was about to finish my session late last night I got a success screen saying my empire was the most financially successful. A big contrast to my previous efforts! :laugh4:

I have a few questions that puzzle me:

1.) I put all my princes in the same army as the king (I know it’s not wise to do this) and because there were a few other small armies in the same province I hit the M key to group them all together. On doing so I lost all of my princes in the king’s army and this was reflected by their names missing on the military screen. So I lost some high command princes completely! How could this happen? It wasn't old age because it was early in the game. Losing four princes that all had impressive stats was a big blow and now means I lack high command generals not to mention a lack of heirs as I only have two princesses.

2.) Each army has its general but what importance do the stats of the leaders of each unit in that army hold? I make sure all my generals have high loyalty but are loyalty for the other units important as well? If every unit in an army has high loyalty will this dramatically reduce the chance of routing in a losing battle? I tend to be ruthless when a new unit is produced. If its leader is of low loyalty and theire other stats arn't impressive I'll disband them without even putting them in the field. Is this a good or pointless tactic?

3.) What’s the best way of increasing command for different units? When I had all the princes in the same army as the king their command seemed to increase quickly after battle and I planned on then distributing each prince to its own army. Had I done so would the prince's command rating improve the command rating of each unit more than if the general had no command rating at all? In a nutshell what’s the most effective way of getting high command ratings for all units? Can it only be done only through battle experience or can it be done by training as well?

4.) Sometimes I can't drop a unit or group of units in to the king’s army. I recall the manual saying something like I can only drop units in to an army that was created in the same province. Is there a way around this and how do I tell where a unit was created?

5.) This one I find very confusing. Assume I want to add more units to an army but keep the same general in command. When I drop the extra unit in to the army the general of the added unit takes command of the entire army and the only way to reverse this is to remove the general I want in command from said army and then drop him back in again. This is the only method I know of and it seems a bit complicated. Is there a more effective way?


Thanks for any advice on these. I'm counting the clock today until I get home and can load up MTW!!

[macsen rufus]

I'm really not sure about the campmap zoom, I tend to favour the mousewheel so haven't really looked for alternatives...

For your other questions:

1) Using the Merge command usually spreads your generals around the stacks, it doesn't make them disappear! So if you have two stacksworth in a province, and start with say your king and a reasonably high command prince in one stack, afetr hitting M you should find the prince in charge of one stack, and the king in the other. Commanders will ONLY appear in the Military Parchment when they head up a stack, so if all your princes are stacked with your king, they won't show. Even if your princes did die of old age, the unit will still be there, just with a replacement "commoner" in charge, although unless you're using the "green generals" setting, his stats will be exactly the same. I don't know where your princes went, they don't just vanish like that! (Sure you haven't had a wave of enemy assassins???)

2) Only the stack-leader's stats affect the whole army - his command stars add valour and his v&vs will modify morale (if he's a screaming wussy-girl, then his whole army will be, too.... :laugh4: ) Giving him a second in command has no effect! Loyalty doesn't figure in battle, only in the case of bribes or civil war. Beware high command low-loyalty generals. They can rebel, especially if you put them in charge of a large stack. Loyalty will improve for all generals as your king's influence improves, or he gains virtues like "builder" line etc. Disbanding disloyal units is just a waste of cash, really.... put them under a loyal general, then they can't do any harm. They will improve with time and your king's prowess. The higher his influence the higher the loyalty of newly trained units, too.

3) Increase command by winning battles. Only applies to the general. Individual units in an army can gain VALOUR by making kills in batle.

4) To merge units they must be in the same province at the start of a turn. If you move one unit from say Mercia to Wessex, it can not merge with the Wessex army until the next turn.

5) Is bit of a bug - rest assured if they get into a battle the most capable leader will be selected whichever one was added to the stack first or last.

Hope you get this before you rush off home.... I'm also waiting the end of the day to rush off home back to MTW-land :2thumbsup:

[Jamie the Shrubber]

How things can change! I think I put myself in a strong position by generating huge wealth but I really need it now after beginning my invasions in to the north of England. I've captured about 10 provinces and immediately begin creating a clearing and then farmland. For the last few turns I've been losing about 2k a year and have gone from my peak of 180k Florins to 150k as my support costs for the units increases. I've quickly noticed that the enemy stats are hard to match as the upgraded units come along and its going to be testing times. If I lose a province to the enemy and there was building work in process such as the 16 year clearing and basic farms will they be lost so I have to start them again? Although I miss out on a lot of incredible action I've been using the 'resolve battle automatically' option as I'm so glued to the strategic side of things. By doing this do my units miss out on potential battle awarded points or is it still taken in to account?


I've also noticed that many of the MTW strategy guides (two examples are the entry for MTW in Expedia and a walkthrough guide from IGN.com among others) don't include the Irish as part of the available factions. Is this a snub to the Emerald Isle or is there another reason?

[Martok]

If I lose a province to the enemy and there was building work in process such as the 16 year clearing and basic farms will they be lost so I have to start them again?
Yes, unfortunately. Any building in-progress will be lost in that province should you lose it to the enemy. That's why it's generally better to avoid long-term projects in vulnerable border provinces. :yes:


Although I miss out on a lot of incredible action I've been using the 'resolve battle automatically' option as I'm so glued to the strategic side of things. By doing this do my units miss out on potential battle awarded points or is it still taken in to account?
Yes, command stars and valour bonuses are still awarded from battles that are auto-calculated. You're probably doing yourself a disfavor, however, by not fighting the battles yourself.

Your men will generally do better if you command them personally -- not only in terms of fewer casualties, but also in overall battles won (which increases the rate at which your generals gain more command stars). There are countless instances in MTW where players have won battles they would've otherwise lost, had they allowed the auto-calc function to run the battle for them.

I'm not saying you'll want to fight every single battle, such as situations where either you or the enemy outnumbers the other 10-to-1. And of course, if you're the type that derives more enjoyment from the empire-management aspects than combat, that's certainly fine as well. ~:) Usually, however, it's to your advantage to manage the battles in person -- more often than not, you'll get a much better result if you do.


I've also noticed that many of the MTW strategy guides (two examples are the entry for MTW in Expedia and a walkthrough guide from IGN.com among others) don't include the Irish as part of the available factions. Is this a snub to the Emerald Isle or is there another reason?
It's probably because most faction guides were written before the Viking Invasion expansion was ever released. The Org is one of the relatively few places I know of that includes guides for the VI factions as well.

[CountMRVHS]

A few years back I found some kickass guides for each of the VI factions by a guy named Morble (?). Very well-written, informative, amusing... they just make you want to play each faction you read about. Can't remember how I found them, but when I did, I printed them out. Just read one the other day. Maybe you can do a search... somewhere?

[Jamie the Shrubber]

Thanks for the input. :beam:

Things went slightly downhill yesterday when I resumed my campaign and it just shows how quickly things can change. My main problem is I think I invaded Scotland far too early which was around ad 960. I took over the top 10 or so provencies and then had real trouble keeping hold of them due to invasions from the Vikings where ever my stacks were low. I had no facilities to create armies in Scotland but plenty of waiting troops in Ireland. The only problem was the seas were blockaded and I couldn't move any accross. I watched, heartbroken, as each Scottish province was invaded and captured from me. All of them were re-taken in a cople of turns. To avoid a civil war I noted the names of the ring leaders and supporters and then re-loaded and dis-banded them. I had to remove 6 generals and one Prince to avoid the civil war. At this point I realised my domination plans had not come up to expecation and I should treat it as a learning exercise and re-start!

I am now playing on hard setting again with the Irish. My plan, as it was before, is to turn Ireland in to the central hub of operations where I will train fighters in Ulster that will be ready to invade the North of England and fighters in Munster that will invade the South of England. All will be concurrent and will create a kind of strangle hold. This will push enemy forces east. I realise I'll need to move quickly when the invasion starts and also have a lot of units so can anyone advise me if this scenario is viable and a good method?

1.) Whats the best way to go attempt this plan? When should I attack? I'm going to lie low for much longer this time and gather Florins and troops but is it possible to occupy an allied province so my troops are already nicely spread for when I attack?


2.) Is it ok to dedicate one province for each fighter or is it best to build everything possible assuming I have the Florins for it.



Thanks!

[caravel]

Thanks for the input. :beam:

Things went slightly downhill yesterday when I resumed my campaign and it just shows how quickly things can change. My main problem is I think I invaded Scotland far too early which was around ad 960. I took over the top 10 or so provencies and then had real trouble keeping hold of them due to invasions from the Vikings where ever my stacks were low. I had no facilities to create armies in Scotland but plenty of waiting troops in Ireland. The only problem was the seas were blockaded and I couldn't move any accross. I watched, heartbroken, as each Scottish province was invaded and captured from me. All of them were re-taken in a cople of turns. To avoid a civil war I noted the names of the ring leaders and supporters and then re-loaded and dis-banded them. I had to remove 6 generals and one Prince to avoid the civil war. At this point I realised my domination plans had not come up to expecation and I should treat it as a learning exercise and re-start!
A few problems there. The first is the early invasion of Scotland. Spreading out from your strong position to take what are mostly poor provinces yielding little benefits apart from being defensible. The next issue is the blockaded seas. You should never attempt an invasion of Britain unless you have dominance of the seas. The Viking ships should be sent to the bottom systematically before you make a move. The Vikings raid the north a lot because it's close to them. The Northumbrians and Picts suffer the most of all the factions but the Vikings will go for rebels regardless of location. By invading the North early, you are simply taking on the burden of that struggle and using your own rich lands to finance it. Also Civil War can sometimes be a good thing, and adds a new dimension to the gameplay. It is best to fight through the civil war, possibly even backing the rebels, as it can strengthen your position in the long run.

I am now playing on hard setting again with the Irish. My plan, as it was before, is to turn Ireland in to the central hub of operations where I will train fighters in Ulster that will be ready to invade the North of England and fighters in Munster that will invade the South of England. All will be concurrent and will create a kind of strangle hold. This will push enemy forces east. I realise I'll need to move quickly when the invasion starts and also have a lot of units so can anyone advise me if this scenario is viable and a good method?
Viable, certainly interesting and quite challenging though a war on two fronts can be very costly. I have always preferred the south eastern rout, invading near the channel and taking on either the Saxons on the Mercians first, switching allegiance many times and playing them off against each other.

The problem with playing as the Irish is that Britain then lacks a human player on the mainland. The Mercians will then often achieve total domination of Britain. I remember once turtling an Irish campaign, and watching the Mercians take the whole of Britain. By the time I felt ready to take them on they had massive stacks of bloodthirsty Huscarles...

1.) Whats the best way to go attempt this plan? When should I attack? I'm going to lie low for much longer this time and gather Florins and troops but is it possible to occupy an allied province so my troops are already nicely spread for when I attack?
Before you invade Britain: Conquer Ireland and develop it for income and the building of ships upgrade to the longboats ASAP, dominate the seas with a large navy - two to three ships per sea, blow every Viking ship out of the water and replace your losses (don't allow your fleets to weaken), develop extensive trade to fill the coffers, tech up to better units and build a large army and when you're ready invade into the south and take on the English factions first. It is important that neither gets too strong. You should also keep their navies under control. If they start to get overly large, declare war, wipe out all of their ships, pull all of your ships away from their coasts and wait 2 turns for the automatic ceasefire. Return your ships to their coasts and continue trading. You can't afford to wait around too long though, as the English factions will eventually become so strong that you will find yourself fighting one very strong faction in the end in order to conquer Britain.

You can't occupy an allied province as that would be a declaration of war.

2.) Is it ok to dedicate one province for each fighter or is it best to build everything possible assuming I have the Florins for it.



Thanks!
The best policy is to specialise. Kerns have a valour bonus in Laigin so it is bes to develop that to produce them. Brega is already well developed IIRC so you can concentrate on turning out Gallowglasses there. You can then allocate another province to cavalry or something else if you wish, though all provinces should also be capable of churning out ships and you will need to have phases of ship building and unit training. Try not to build what you don't need and once your coasts are secure concentrate on improving income by further upgrading farmland and building abbeys.

:bow:

[Caerfanan]

I haven't looked at the numbers in awhile, but I always prefer to use my Bonnachts as the chuck & charge troops, while my Kerns I like to keep out of range & firing their missiles -- partly because Bonnachts only have 1 spear each anyway, while the Kerns can keep on firing for a bit longer, but also because the Bonnachts seemed to do better in melee.

You're correct. Bonnacht are 5 attack, -3 defence, and the Kerns are 2/-3. Further more, Kerns have 4 javelins and are fast. Very good skirmishers. When you get all Ireland, the +1 valour bonus on Kerns fades in front of the Iron in Ulster and Munster (and Likely Manau, as you get naval superiority): Laigin and Connacht are usually money producing after a while.

I took a huscarles unit charge staight on with my bonnacht and it went as follow: the volley of 100 javelins killed about 10 huscarles (whoa... very good), but then the fighting rapidly turnd to their disadvantage, and I had only about 50 bonnachts when the huscarles where still around 35 (thats something like a 1/3 kill ratio). I had to charge the huscarles with cavalry to free them...

The tip about weather is excellent. Archers and Cavalry are a plea for Irish low defence and low armor troops...

And of course, but this applies to almost any campaign: The Saxons and Mercians have to be kept in balance, and if possible weakened. As several said, once they get huscarles, it will hurt. A lot.

[caravel]

You're correct. Bonnacht are 5 attack, -3 defence, and the Kerns are 2/-3. Further more, Kerns have 4 javelins and are fast. Very good skirmishers. When you get all Ireland, the +1 valour bonus on Kerns fades in front of the Iron in Ulster and Munster (and Likely Manau, as you get naval superiority): Laigin and Connacht are usually money producing after a while.

I took a huscarles unit charge staight on with my bonnacht and it went as follow: the volley of 100 javelins killed about 10 huscarles (whoa... very good), but then the fighting rapidly turnd to their disadvantage, and I had only about 50 bonnachts when the huscarles where still around 35 (thats something like a 1/3 kill ratio). I had to charge the huscarles with cavalry to free them...

The tip about weather is excellent. Archers and Cavalry are a plea for Irish low defence and low armor troops...

And of course, but this applies to almost any campaign: The Saxons and Mercians have to be kept in balance, and if possible weakened. As several said, once they get huscarles, it will hurt. A lot.
Never take on Huscarles unless you've shot them down to below 50% and then pinned them down with Armoured Spearmen first. Then, and only then, flank them with Royal Bodyguards and Gallowglasses.

Gah! I had made an error in that post of mine that CountMRVHS was referring to, and I have just noticed it now:


On the subject of Bonnachts and Kerns, I actually use both, but I use Kerns Bonnachts in a more "throw javelins and charge flank" capacity, whereas I use Bonnachts Kerns as skirmishers only.

:wall:

I only use Kerns as occasional Flankers - if I'm desperate. Bonnachts are what I was referring to as "throw n charge".

:bow:

[drone]

In my last Irish campaign, I kicked the Scots off of Ireland, consolidated, took Manau, then built up a fleet. I then jumped across and took Cerniu (rebel or Welsh at the time), and then worked my way into the mainland taking on the Saxons. Taking your foothold from the Welsh is nice, they are usually up against the wall anyway and can't retaliate. Cerniu and Defnas both have iron, and should be built up to support your mainland armies if you get cut off from Ireland. Try to get an alliance with the Vikings, but if you can't, it will be easier to maintain naval superiority if you start your attack on the south-west portion of the mainland. You won't have to stretch ships up a long coastline, instead you can concentrate them in Muir Eriu, Saefern Mutha, and Muir Nicht. The lands are better in the south anyway.

Good luck! :medievalcheers:

[Vladimir]

Kerns = dismounted Jinettes :2thumbsup:

[Caerfanan]

Kerns = dismounted Jinettes :2thumbsup:
Actually a javelin volley from kerns seems really less devastating than a javelin volley from Bonnacht. But does it come from the numbers (60 vs 100), or from the javelin? Against Huscarles, I've seen Bonnacht volleys kill more than 10, the kerns usually kill 4-6.

Oh, by the way, I made a mistake as well!!! The Bonnacht are 5 attack, and -2 defence (not -3 as written before), so they even have +1 defence when compared to kerns (and better "raw" fighters thant highland warriors, the gallowglasses are armour piercing, so it needs a second thought)

When not playing the vikings, being allied with them as fast as possible is very important. Because usually the AI sticks to its oldest alliance.

If not allied with them, to secure Ireland/Manau, only three seas need to be portected, you can have big stacks, then, and valour up you main boat in cas of a war.

(edited for typos)

[Vladimir]

Kerns=Jinettes=fast javelin spam=:2thumbsup:

I've been playing around with the Irish in Early XL. Bonnies are great for chuck and charge troops. Even on expert they can make decent units rout with a volley or 2 at close range. Amazing!

This thread encouraged me to play around with the Irish and I was able to get to almost 60% using kern spam before I teched up to bonnies. By that time I didn't need them because I had broken the Saxons and Mercians.

[Jamie the Shrubber]

The more I play the more I realise what golden advice has been given in this thread so thanks for all the input. My last campaign was going well and somehow I was raking in about 6000 Florins a year from Laigin alone (about 225 trade from each other province on the map) Unfortunately I didn't realise the game ended at 1066 and so when I received the 20 year warning at 1045 I was on 700,000 Florins but had yet to leave Ireland!

A few attempts later and I have taken a different approach to my latest campaign. At the very start I noticed there are rebel factions on some eastern provinces in Britain so at the earliest opportunity I invaded them knowing it wouldn't provoke any factions so I made my mark on Britain. As has already been stated this prevents a faction from becoming stupidly large as I can keep them all in check and attack or use my agents on armies that grow large. Gradually I've invaded more provinces and now have about 10 provinces in Britain under my command and I'm now having great fun sending out my agents to manipulate the remaining factions. The Mercian’s are reasonably strong as are the Saxons but neither are bothering me allowing me to secure and cultivate my British provinces. The Northumbrians and Welsh are now almost non-existent and the Vikings have just invaded the Picts in the South.

Its hard work playing in this way and I find myself reloading quite often if things don't go to plan but I don't think I will have any problems capturing 80% of the map because I already have secured many provinces in Britain and its not even ad 900 yet. From previous efforts though I won't be taking anything for granted though! I'm having great fun sending out agents to weaken the remaining factions and forge alliances so I can continue undisturbed. Do the Irish provinces count towards the map percentage?

My cash flow is also in very bad shape and I'm just about breaking even every turn. It would be nice to make Laigan a gold mine as it was in my previous attempt but even with a merchant I'm only making 1100 florins a month. I have all of the provinces on the eastern side of Britain which have many resources and tradable goods as well as merchants so how can I trade with myself and other factions to make large profits to fund Mercenaries? Talking of mercenaries I wouldn't have been able to progress in this campaign without them as at the very start I built Inns and used them to invade rebel provinces disbanding the expensive ones when my borders were safe.

My biggest question at this point is what is best order to secure a province when it’s just been invaded? What should I build and how should I man it to minimise the risk of it being invaded by someone else? I'm a bit unfamiliar with keeping men garrisoned and its benefits in preventing invasion.

Also, I can't seem to occupy every section of sea namely the sections surrounding the Vikings land. They are yellow and even with ships in the section next to them I am unable to move across.

I've never launched a crusade as I'm not sure how to. I think crusades will be very important for me under the circumstances so any pointers on this?

Thanks!

[drone]

Your ships will not be able to move into the Nordsaer region, this is a technological limitation on non-Viking factions. As such, it is very difficult to eliminate the Vikings, but actually taking over their 2 provinces is not necessary for total victory (they don't count towards the "100%", that's only the British Isles). The only way to take the Viking provinces is to cause a rebellion using spies, bribe the rebels, then beat the remaining garrison.

There are no crusades in the Viking campaign.

[Jamie the Shrubber]

I got the success meassage saying I had taken control of over 75 percent of the map at ad906 but I'll carry on to see how it all unfolds!

[Martok]

:medievalcheers:

[Caerfanan]

I got the success meassage saying I had taken control of over 75 percent of the map at ad906 but I'll carry on to see how it all unfolds!
Go, Irish, go! :beam:

The key points I noted with Ireland:
1/ Secure the Ireland Island + Manau: this mostly means Naval Superiority in Muir Eriu, Muir Celtire and Seafern Mutha (spelling?). Getting quickly allied with the viks and sticking to this alliance will help a lot. Otherwise, build stacks of boats and sink everything. YOu'll get 4 stars naval commanders! You'll have then three provinces with Iron (Manau, Ulster and Munster)!
2/ Make sure that neither the mercians nor the saxons take over the other. The Northumbrians are next in line. If they get big, they'll have the big huscarles
3/ The invasion of the main Isle should start south, as the provinces are richer.
4/ Woods can be good friends as you don't have much cavalry and archers.
5/ In battle, the javelins are good, but they get slaughtered in close combat due to their low defence... You'll need spears in addition tio the irish-specific units