The Pope - Where will he re-emerge?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi guys,
I have decided to start a new campaign again after being removed from the map in my last one - as usual I ended up declaring war against somebody with power much larger than my own - this time I've started using spies to estimate what I could be up against so, I hopefully won't pick a fight with the map bully! Anyhow, recently I have gone on a conquering spree against the weak Geonese in XL, as the Aragonese, and have managed to remove them from Corsica, Sardina and North Western Italy. Unfortunately, now, after all this conquest I have a nasty dilemma! The Pope is removed from the map and all of his former regions are pretty weak Geonese possessions. I wish to wipe them out very quickly and take over one of the old Papal Lands and let the Pope's return to do the rest. However, due to my inexperience, and M:TW noobishness, I don't know where he will turn up with his attack, so I don't know whose province to take to avoid the Pope returning to take my lands. So, may I ask you veterans, where the Pope will re-emerge at - I really don't want to have to fight an almighty full stack of Papal knights! Sorry for annoying you like this, thanks guys, cheers!

[caravel]

Unless he had conquered any other provinces and maintained good loyalty there for a period, then he will only reappear in Rome and the Papal States.

:bow:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Unless he had conquered any other provinces and maintained good loyalty there for a period, then he will only reappear in Rome and the Papal States.That was quick, many thanks Caravel! Unfortunately I have to avoid the conquest of the Papal States and Rome.

[gaiusjulii]

Not at all... juast make you trash the pope and force him to retreat to rome then box him in, no re-emerging worries there mate, then assasinate him to counter the excommuniction you just earned.

[Vladimir]

Better the Papal States than Rome. Once you get to the point where you think the game is boring, take him out as early as possible and try to keep him down. It's a nice random mini-horde.

[Caliburn]

I think killing the pope "permanently" is not really worth the trouble. Though with navies he can be contained with reserve armies, just having the ability to go on crusades is a great tactical weapon against both the other Catholics and the mislead Orthodox not to mention the evil Pagans and Moslems. Not that I've not gone "pope-bashing" when I've gotten angry with the bugger.

Does it really matter if you lose one or both of the basic Papal regions? I can't remember if giving up a region where the re-emergence takes place will mean you're at war with the faction.

Haven't yet played XL, so maybe all I'm saying is bollocks... Have to try it when I grow bored with M2.

[Martok]

Omanes, if you felt like risking it, one option is to take Rome but leave the Papal States alone. The odds are he will reappear in just the latter province and not try to take back the former.

The risk is that this isn't guaranteed -- the Pope may still reappear in Rome anyway. I don't necessarily recommend this tactic if you still consider yourself a "new" MTW player, but it's sometimes worth trying.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I've just been playing now for a couple of hours and the Pope decided to re-emerge in Rome with epic force. He failed to wipe out the powerful English there, they attacked just before his return, and then he decided to try attacking the Citadel at Naples. His attack completely failed and he was very quickly captured in battle by the English!

Going off-topic - I have made yet another war declaring mistake against the English. I thought that all of their forces, excluding, their men in Italy, had no chance of attacking me. I was wrong yet again, neglecting the size of the navy, experiencing huge volleys of highly elite troops coming over from North Africa and attacking Spain every turn. My faction leader went from seven influence to three very quickly after losing almost all my battles - a civil war erupted and then the French took advantage of the situation and finally removed me from the map. Ah well, good job that I have an old save game to rescue the game from.

BTW, thanks for your advise and sorry for going completely off-topic.

[Vladimir]

That's ok. Someone of your meager intellect and limited attention span can't be expected to contribute much. :bounce:

[Martok]

No worries, Omanes. Learning from your mistakes is half the fun anyway, at least in my experience. (There's nothing like being taught a painful lesson after underestimating the enemy!) Besides, it makes entertaining reading for the rest of us. ~;)

My jesting aside, I think you're doing fine, mate. At some point, we all went through what you are now, so we can feel your pain. ~:)

[General Dazza]

That campaign sounds like a lot of fun Omanes.

My theory re the pope is that when he becomes a problem re excomm, wipe him out and then before he returns sell off all his improvements and leave. Rebels will pop up, but probably only in small numbers, so the when the pope re-emerges he'll only have small numbers too. Which makes him easy to wipe out again should he re-emerge.

Not only do you make money and keep papal numbers down, but you also stop him from building good troops and negate excomm.

Worked for me last campaign.

[Caliburn]

There will always be a fool to call the fool the fool, but never forget that sir Dagonet fought with as much chivalry as any other Knight of the Table Round though he was king Arthur's fool. Nothing gives as much exasperation and enjoyment than losing a central battle.

Just kill their Arthur and wipe out their forces, why not let the Roman knights some room to breathe...

Sorry that my post does not exactly bring anything "useful" to the table...

[gaiusjulii]

Ha Ha That'll teach you I remeber my first encounter with the golden Horde Boy i didnt see that one coming, very Messy ending with me beisiged in scotland by france.... dont ask :help:

[Lord Cazaric]

OK, now you've got to tell us...

[gaiusjulii]

OK but seeing as you have asked so sorry for going off topic here guys....

I decided when playing the game in my early days to build two empires at each end of the map and this by the way works perticularly well if you can pull it off. So I have secured my lands in Britain and the mainland and have created 10 stacks of mixed troops all lightly armoured to go into the desert and with Kazaar being the only rebel province I decided that I would start my epic campiagn of taking the Middle east from there and south into Giorgia. So here goes 1229 I get the you have the most impressive army message and I embark King and all leaving One prince the youngest in scotland as insurance of lasting legacy to England. I leave one defensive army in each border province in Europe and leave England, Norway, Sweden barren of troops except for Peasents(DOH!!!!) thinking that the french was quite content to have HRE to chew on... ok so now its 1230 and I preparing the Invasion south and in arrogance I decide to wait one more year and move 2 more armies from normandy to leaving one standing army in aquitane and Normandy and Toulouse training fresh... Now this goes tits up when the french decide to attack and in doing so temporarily block my seaways thus allowing rebellions in normandy touslouse mercia and wales and norway and to top it off my only remaining ship in the north sea is sunk In a storm!!!!!? what are the chances so now to the ensuiing crisis in Kazaar the horde have arrvived and im Like what? where the hell did they come from and at this point I remember I havent saved for like the whole Game :wall: so now I do battle and only realise that I am in a attacking army mode Meaning I have lots of light cavalry, Men_at_arms and archers and some ranged unit almost no spears, as you can imagine It was devastating! my royal family line is gone I have no heirs in the pipe line and and the french have landed en-masse in Northumbria with prince or now King stuck in scotland with Me holding 3 armies one in Aquitane, Scotland and Sweden and thats the mess I was left with.... as it goes the french took the rest of Briatain leaving me in scotland to twiddle My thumbs and wait while I move all my fleets back north until I have enough ships to deastroy the french navy and move my 3 armies all to scotland and thus kiicking the french from MY ISLAND!!!!!!! and the game went on as you doo lol i STILL LOST BY THE WAY

As i said sorry for going off topic......

[caravel]

Or... you could try leaving Naples poorly defended to lure him in, then kick him out of Rome and The Papal States and leave Sicily in the same defenceless condition, though well built up with a shipwright. Then you could leave Malta in the same condition, hope he builds ships and hope he invades that... and then invade Sicily forcing him to retreat to Malta, sink all his ships and leave him there to rot.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I've just played a few turns with the recovered save, yet, this time, the Pope went for both The Papal States and Rome with a huge Cream horde of Chivalric troops! I was expecting the same to occur as previously so I had taken over the Papal States to remove the Geonese from power entirely before they could recoup their strength. Luckily I managed to get my men out of there, leaving it un-garrisoned, so that the Pope could get his home back without a war - I didn't have the troop strnegth to hold his holy forces.
My jesting aside, I think you're doing fine, mate.Thanks :bow:

[Martok]

Very good, grasshopper; you're learning quickly. ~:)