View Full Version : Most Ridiculously Lope-sided Autobattles 3500 v 1510
Intranetusa
04-21-2007, 23:30
Most Ridiculously Lope-sided Autobattles Me 3500 v 1510 enemy crap units = Crushing Defeat M battle/VH campaign
I had approx 3500 soldiers comprised of a half stack of elite 2hp Nake Gaestarne Infantry (best infantry in the game) along with other half stacks of elite Pedites Extrandanarii Infantry and Mercenary Phalangites
and varying other units (total of 5 stacks). The enemy was a Seleucid army of 1510, with 2 family members (the general had 5 stars) and had mostly levy and standard phalangites.
I totally surrounded the enemy with my 5 stacks and the battle ratio was 10 to 3 in my favor. So how the hell did this happen?:
https://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4303/ridiculousautobattle1qm4.jpg
https://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7967/ridiculousautobattle2hi8.jpg
Next time bring a general. And for the gods sake make sure he brings som cloths to your poor legions.
And wtf is that sweboz army doin there?
Your army's have saw private parts of naked man. having saw It they fled :dizzy2: :dizzy2:
Dyabedes of Aphrodisias
04-21-2007, 23:58
That happens sometimes.
And I challenge your claim that the gaesatae are the best unit in the game. (BTW, why didn't you combine any of those and why are the Sweboz down there?)
Intranetusa
04-22-2007, 00:05
That happens sometimes.
And I challenge your claim that the gaesatae are the best unit in the game. (BTW, why didn't you combine any of those and why are the Sweboz down there?)
I didn't say best in the game - I said they were the best "infantry" unit in the game.
As for the Sweboz, I gave a province in Asia Minor really early on in exchange for an alliance...they've been holding off wave after wave of Seleucid assaults (with a little help from me) for over 10-25 years now.
Dyabedes of Aphrodisias
04-22-2007, 00:15
I didn't say best in the game - I said they were the best "infantry" unit in the game.
As for the Sweboz, I gave a province in Asia Minor really early on in exchange for an alliance...they've been holding off wave after wave of Seleucid assaults (with a little help from me) for over 10-25 years now.
I still challenge that claim.
Have the Sweboz been winning very much? Doesn't seem like they'd be able at all to hold off Seleucid stacks...
**** happens, particularly with the autoresolve. Having a decent general helps. Allegedly using the autowin script gives fairer results.
On the best infantry, in earlier builds (currently my EB isn't working), I saw the Swebiz/boz generals crushing even numbers of gaesatae. I'm not sure whether the Galatian nude chappies have the same stats or not. Also, for cost-effectiveness, the Lusotanann Caetranann (especially on hills :)) and some Dacian units are fear-inspiring.
Intranetusa
04-22-2007, 00:42
I still challenge that claim.
Have the Sweboz been winning very much? Doesn't seem like they'd be able at all to hold off Seleucid stacks...
What is the best then? I know the Seleucid shock infantry are pretty good (guys in mail with covered faces, round shields, and a spear)
Never use auto resolve unless you do auto_win or if you have a 10 star general or something. Thats what the game seems to focus on to see who wins or not, stars. Thus the constant rebbel garrisons of nothing + an awesome general holding off waves of npc armies :wall: .
Use auto_win, always. Unless you are on easy battle difficulty auto resolve is horribly rigged against you. It's pretty common knowledge that it's messed up, so just save time complaining and use auto win if you don't want to manually command it. Auto win will give you generally 10% casualties with relatively equal force which is pretty close to my usual numbers versus a strong foe and saves a ton of time. I use auto win liberally since it's really no fun trying to play along the rules when the rules are really messed up against you and the only reason you're auto resolving is to save time. The only time it's bad is when you have an HA army, but then you get more unit xp than normal battles where you don't lose a man.
And I challenge the Gestastae claim as well. The Thorikitai Argyraspidai are more than match for them: one on one I don't know but in terms of holding the line and forcing a gap, and surviving missile fire, the TA are well above them. Frankly a lot of infantry units are better, examples being veteran/praetorian cohorts, argyraspidai and the other elite phalanxes, and maybe the baktrion and the other successor agema? All of these units don't get totally rocked by skirmishers and are able to force a gap and exploit it much better (at least the non-phalanx).
Fondor_Yards
04-22-2007, 00:51
If we are going simply by best stats, Dosidataskeli all the way!
If cost-effectiveness, Drapanai rule.
Afro Thunder
04-22-2007, 01:14
That, or you could just command the battles yourself and mop the floor. Great success! ~:cheers:
NeoSpartan
04-22-2007, 01:42
yeah autoresolve suck B**z!!!
I feel ur pain.
Intranetusa
04-22-2007, 01:53
That, or you could just command the battles yourself and mop the floor. Great success! ~:cheers:
yup, I just went back and manually fought the battle, killed both the generals, killed 1400 (110 escaped) enemies and lost less than 50 of my men... :)
Dyabedes of Aphrodisias
04-22-2007, 04:58
What is the best then? I know the Seleucid shock infantry are pretty good (guys in mail with covered faces, round shields, and a spear)
The Lusotannan Dosidataskeli. They have like 16 attack (I forgot exactly), and they have 32 defense as well as good stamina. They'll pwn a hole in almost any line outside of phalanxes.
--------------------
To do auto_win, do you do it when the battle screen comes up and then autoresolve?
Yesterday I used auto_win for the first time when, as Aedui, a small Roman force took Medilanum fair and square. They put the town under siege for, uh.. 0 turns and immediately assaulted with a mystical battering ram that spawned out of nowhere. Then I used auto_win, because there's a limit to how much crap I can take. I don't even feel guilty.
O'ETAIPOS
04-22-2007, 08:06
Generals always have edge against capitains. And if Enemy has 5 star general, and you only capitain, they wil most probably win in autocalc battle. Stars do just that - give huge bonuses in autocalc
Geoffrey S
04-22-2007, 15:21
That should teach you to create that kind of an army.
Intranetusa
04-22-2007, 19:29
That should teach you to create that kind of an army.
Yup, apparently a half stack of elite 2hp heavy gastarne + 4 other stacks of support infantry are worthless against the mighty levy phalangites and levy spearmen. :(
They put the town under siege for, uh.. 0 turns and immediately assaulted with a mystical battering ram that spawned out of nowhere.
Yes, I've encountered such a situation a month ago in Iberia TW and now You say it occurs in EB. So what is this? A bug of vanilla or what?:balloon2:
LordCurlyton
04-22-2007, 20:08
:whip: Heh you should always chack the experience level of the generals/troops before autocalcing. The stars mean crap, I've one plenty of captain vs 5-10 star general autocalc battles in my campaigns, as long as the guy doesn't have many chevrons. Once they get to Silver or higher I usually fight because they can and will rack up obscene kills, especially gold chevroned generals *shudder*. Also, phalangite units get massive autocalc benefits so unless I'm fielding my own pikes I fight them and get the satisfying joy of phalangite-munching.:smash:
Yup, apparently a half stack of elite 2hp heavy gastarne + 4 other stacks of support infantry are worthless against the mighty levy phalangites and levy spearmen. :(
Ever played 'paper, scissor, stone'?
Thats why balanced armies are important. Every unit can be countered with the right opponents and tactics. If you have a whole stack of just one type of unit, you risk losing the lot if they come up against the units they are weak against (think of the romans at carrhae).
Balanced armies means that weaknesses are supported by other units who are strong against them.
And its more fun to play with balanced armies...
Intranetusa
04-22-2007, 20:34
Ever played 'paper, scissor, stone'?
Thats why balanced armies are important. Every unit can be countered with the right opponents and tactics. If you have a whole stack of just one type of unit, you risk losing the lot if they come up against the units they are weak against (think of the romans at carrhae).
Balanced armies means that weaknesses are supported by other units who are strong against them.
And its more fun to play with balanced armies...
Well, I did have a balanced army. In my other stacks, I had 8-10 mercenary phalangites, Cretan archers, Northern Gallic Merc Swordsmen, Classical hoplites, Pontic spearmen, etc
Yes, I've encountered such a situation a month ago in Iberia TW and now You say it occurs in EB. So what is this? A bug of vanilla or what?:balloon2:
Just some random AI meltdown. I figure it doesn't even know how to build siege engines. There's just some built-in script that gives sieging AI armies some siege crafts. That's why AI sometimes "builds" things like ladders against large stone walls, which really can't be built.
Dyabedes of Aphrodisias
04-22-2007, 21:55
Just some random AI meltdown. I figure it doesn't even know how to build siege engines. There's just some built-in script that gives sieging AI armies some siege crafts. That's why AI sometimes "builds" things like ladders against large stone walls, which really can't be built.
I've never encountered something like that. What happens; do they try to use them, or do they just drop them?
I have noticed that the AI is quite random with its siege equipment. I've been sieged with a single tower before by the Arverni. Qarthadast sieged me once with just elephants, who marched up one by one, taking their turn at the boiling oil. Somebody else once sieged me with 7 rams. Then there was a siege with just two ladders.
Geoffrey S
04-22-2007, 23:05
But what's the point creating an army like that when playing as the Romans?
antisocialmunky
04-23-2007, 00:18
Because you can.
I've always wanted to make a 20 stack unit of Gaestae and see how far they can go without reinforcements... and pants.
Megas Pyrrhos
04-23-2007, 04:55
i dont have a pic of it, but i had a mak campaign where i had 4 full-stack armies sieging Rome....all in all, my total forces numbered 12,554 i think, and about 3400 or so for the two Roman armies....and i took horrible losses, so i then proceeded to auto_win that battle in round #2 due to makedonian superiority :)
Intranetusa
04-23-2007, 20:18
But what's the point creating an army like that when playing as the Romans?
Actually, 75% of my army is merc units. It takes waaayyy too long to ship my Polybian-reforms troops from the Italian pennisula, so I mainly rely on regional auxillary with heavy merc recruitment. (for some reason, the AI is super rich but almost never recuirts mercs)
I think I only have 30 units total in my entire army of Polybian units, about 15 units of left over Camillian units, and everything else as regional/mercs.
(btw, I kept my max upgraded Cammilan army barracks in Rome because I LOVE the phalanx triari)
I've never encountered something like that. What happens; do they try to use them, or do they just drop them?
They don't appear in the battle.
atheotes
04-23-2007, 20:40
*note to self* Never use auto-calc!!! :scared:
How can we get gesetae as the romans? can they be trained or only mercenaries fro hire? :help:
Tellos Athenaios
04-23-2007, 20:41
^^ How sad...
I have noticed that the AI is quite random with its siege equipment. I've been sieged with a single tower before by the Arverni. Qarthadast sieged me once with just elephants, who marched up one by one, taking their turn at the boiling oil. Somebody else once sieged me with 7 rams. Then there was a siege with just two ladders.
Best siege equipment I ever encountered was: Vanilla RTW, Britons attacking me (Julii) with a ram, a couple of ladders, and a few siege towers. Of course, I crushed them anyway.
Intranetusa
04-24-2007, 02:29
*note to self* Never use auto-calc!!! :scared:
How can we get gesetae as the romans? can they be trained or only mercenaries fro hire? :help:
actually, they're galatian wild men but I just call them gastarne since they have the exact same stats, exact same unit cards, and exact same unit models...they are a mercenary unit recruitable in Asia Minor.
Dyabedes of Aphrodisias
04-24-2007, 05:43
actually, they're galatian wild men but I just call them gastarne since they have the exact same stats, exact same unit cards, and exact same unit models...they are a mercenary unit recruitable in Asia Minor.
I thought as the Romans you could recruit gaesatae from Gaul with a level 4 government...
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
04-24-2007, 07:24
I thought as the Romans you could recruit gaesatae from Gaul with a level 4 government...
That was removed for v081. Since they are fanatical warriors, they shouldn't be fighting for foreigners.
Intranetusa
04-24-2007, 19:51
what lvl regional MIC can the type 2 subjugation province build up to?
So far, my regional MICs haven't been able to build any decent units...
Tellos Athenaios
04-24-2007, 19:55
You wanna have gaesatae? :grin:
Well, type 2 gets to level 2 or 3 regional mic, 3 or 4 factional mic. Anyway, playing as AS (other diadochi I played never got there) can recruit Galatian Wildmen with a regional mic 5 in Galatia.
Most Ridiculously Lope-sided Autobattles Me 3500 v 1510 enemy crap units = Crushing Defeat M battle/VH campaign
I had approx 3500 soldiers comprised of a half stack of elite 2hp Nake Gaestarne Infantry (best infantry in the game) along with other half stacks of elite Pedites Extrandanarii Infantry and Mercenary Phalangites
and varying other units (total of 5 stacks). The enemy was a Seleucid army of 1510, with 2 family members (the general had 5 stars) and had mostly levy and standard phalangites.
I totally surrounded the enemy with my 5 stacks and the battle ratio was 10 to 3 in my favor. So how the hell did this happen?:
(pics removed)
You should be ashamed!! Your playing the Romans yet your not using any Romans in your army, :whip: No wonder you lost.:beam:
Intranetusa
04-24-2007, 22:56
You should be ashamed!! Your playing the Romans yet your not using any Romans in your army, :whip: No wonder you lost.:beam:
well, I had the Roman Pedites Extrandanarii - Elite Pedite Infantry of the Italic Allies + Roman general...so that counts as Roman units.,, :)
well, I had the Roman Pedites Extrandanarii - Elite Pedite Infantry of the Italic Allies + Roman general...so that counts as Roman units.,, :)
Well the general kinda counts but the Pedite dudes are italian not romean. :inquisitive:
Intranetusa
04-24-2007, 23:21
Well the general kinda counts but the Pedite dudes are italian not romean. :inquisitive:
those Italic allies would beg to differ!!! >_< :furious3:
Doesn't full citizenship by Polybian mean anything to you?
They may not be Latins, but they are as Roman as the Estrucans or any other group located in the Italian pennisula. :)
Intranetusa
04-24-2007, 23:25
and later on, Romanized provinces of Egypt & Greece were considered Roman or Roman citizens as well...
edyzmedieval
04-24-2007, 23:30
Nice battle going round there. I had it even worse.
Ptolemaioi vs Seleukeia. 7 units of 3 bronze chevroned Basilikon Agema, 5 units of Agema cavalry, a general, and Toxotai Kretikoi , 3 units. Got trashed haaaard, and when I mean hard, I remained with 100 soldiers, out of about 1600?
Anyhow, those guys were like 5 peasants(gold chevrons), mercenary phalanx, 2 generals, Syriakoi Toxotai, Thorakitai... All in all, I owned them. But I got crashed...
Centurio Nixalsverdrus
04-24-2007, 23:56
Italics never got citizenship before the social wars in the 80s BC.
Intranetusa
04-25-2007, 01:13
Nice battle going round there. I had it even worse.
Ptolemaioi vs Seleukeia. 7 units of 3 bronze chevroned Basilikon Agema, 5 units of Agema cavalry, a general, and Toxotai Kretikoi , 3 units. Got trashed haaaard, and when I mean hard, I remained with 100 soldiers, out of about 1600?
Anyhow, those guys were like 5 peasants(gold chevrons), mercenary phalanx, 2 generals, Syriakoi Toxotai, Thorakitai... All in all, I owned them. But I got crashed...
lol...damn >_<
"Italics never got citizenship before the social wars in the 80s BC."
Let's pretend I'm referring to when the Italics did get citizenship...
Afro Thunder
04-25-2007, 04:50
That was removed for v081. Since they are fanatical warriors, they shouldn't be fighting for foreigners.
Would that also apply to the Galatian Wildmen? I could hire a group of them as mercs in my KH campaign.
Intranetusa
04-25-2007, 19:43
Would that also apply to the Galatian Wildmen? I could hire a group of them as mercs in my KH campaign.
no, galatians are still there. I have .81a in my campaign (screenshot) and I hire plenty of galatian wildmen :)
I think I would have the worst auto-calc result, 1000 Spartiatai Hoplitai against 40 Makedonian Bodyguard Cavalry, I didn't want to waste my time with this battle. Well any way I lost by a big amount my Spartiatai's killed 1 man and lost over 800 of theirs.:furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
This is the RTW autocalc at work. We can't fix it.
Centurio Nixalsverdrus
04-25-2007, 22:51
I think I would have the worst auto-calc result, 1000 Spartiatai Hoplitai against 40 Makedonian Bodyguard Cavalry, I didn't want to waste my time with this battle. Well any way I lost by a big amount my Spartiatai's killed 1 man and lost over 800 of theirs.:furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
You should reload your game. Wouldn't be cheating, but self-defence!
Intranetusa
04-25-2007, 23:09
I think I would have the worst auto-calc result, 1000 Spartiatai Hoplitai against 40 Makedonian Bodyguard Cavalry, I didn't want to waste my time with this battle. Well any way I lost by a big amount my Spartiatai's killed 1 man and lost over 800 of theirs.:furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
lol, Spartans in EB suck... >_<
Afro Thunder
04-26-2007, 04:18
They don't suck. They're just not quite the same caliber as the Spartans who fought at Thermopylae.
Intranetusa
04-26-2007, 19:52
They don't suck. They're just not quite the same caliber as the Spartans who fought at Thermopylae.
Thermopylae is overrated :)
But seriously, my Spartans can't even kill past their 1:1 ratio when facing mid-lvl units. In a battle vs Pedites Extrandanrii, 600 spartans vs 640 Pedites, I lost about 300 Spartans and killed about 320 Pedites...
The kill loss ratio is 1:1...the spear's penalty against infantry really makes spear units suck... :(
LordCurlyton
04-26-2007, 21:02
Well sword infantry were meant to break/disrupt spears...and you are talking about the best fifth (third?) of the italic allies, so I wouldn't call them "mid-level infantry". I'd say the spartans did pretty damn good to get a 1:1 kill ratio.
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