Laying plans for a HRE game

[The Unknown Guy]

So:
-Pros:
The Empire is huge, has many special units, and can become powerful enough to ignore the Pope altogether in time

-Cons
It starts at a very low tech level, low influence, and a tendence to rebellions and civil wars.


Not only I want to play a decent HRE (and catholic faction) game; I need it to monitor whether my nerfing of Jinetes works or it´s still a situation where either the almos overrun Spain for lack of Jinetes, or they get overrun by Jinete hordes...

[seireikhaan]

I would actually consider the size of the empire to be its greatest weakness. Simply put, there are too many(catholic) neighbours surrounding you. Plus, there are a lot of provinces to defend.

My general advice is to blitz the danes by the second turn. I've heard many advise blitzing Italy as well. However, I never seem to be able to pull it off without getting attacked by Poland/France/Hungary as well and getting summarily destroyed.

Also, it is a must to specialize provinces. Some, I hardly build up at all. Switzerland(halberdiers/pikeman), Swabia(Swabian Swordsman), Provence(farming), Sweden(farming, iron, trade, and huscarles), Saxony(V1 Gothic knights for future), and Franconia/Bohemia(iron, though I just pick one of these) are generally the ones I go for. If you manage to find the cash, building up Norway is also nice, for troop production and shipbuilding.

Also, I would dedicate a province for spies and assassins, you'll want them to help prevent civil wars and to get rid of that damn Pope when you inevitably get excommed. And if you can't get rid of the Pope and your king sucks, then assassinate him instead.

As for the Jinette thing, I don't think it matters that much what you do to them in terms of for the AI. I've never had a game where the Almos and Spaniards end up in a standoff. They almost ALWAYS attack each other, and when they do, one of them will ALWAYS end up steamrolling the other. That is, unless you can manage to interfere yourself, which I seriously doubt you'll be able to do as the HRE.

In fact, I've only had one game where the two didn't go right at each other. Instead, the Almos took Valencia and went up through Aragon. However, war still inevitably broke out when the Spaniards started crusading. And thus, the combined forces of the Spanish and Danes(me) stemmed the tide of Islam. And the ungrateful holy father didn't give me a dime for my efforts...

[Lord Cazaric]

I have never seen the Spanish AI defeat the Almohads...every time they go to war, the Almohads slaughter their Catholic enemies and often march right into France and even, once, Germany.

The only time I've ever seen the Spanish beat the Almohads is when I was playing as the Spanish. I sent ten crusades all the way along to Palestine and, by the tenth one (the one that had 12,000 crusaders), Muscovy. I didn't intend to attack the Almohads - just to take the Holy Land from the Egyptians, but I didn't realise that Muslims didn't allow crusades to pass.

Unfortunately for the Almohads, as soon as they attacked my crusade, they were doomed. My crusade slaughtered them, and afterwards I used North Africa as a means to boost each crusade as it passed through.

[Deus ret.]

I have never seen the Spanish AI defeat the Almohads...every time they go to war, the Almohads slaughter their Catholic enemies and often march right into France and even, once, Germany.
how many variations this game knows! in my games, the Almos usually have the upper hand initially, but after some early successes it's the Castilians who drive them out - sometimes with a little help from their Christian friends further north (usually the winner of the English-French conflict).

and afterwards I used North Africa as a means to boost each crusade as it passed through.
interesting. how did you get up the zeal far enough to be beneficial to the passing crusade, i.e. at least 50%? or were you meaning something different?


As for the HRE campaign, good luck! It's hard but fun. I'm looking forward to hear of some news. If you're interested, I posted some comments to my own HRE campaign (which sound rather frustrated in the retrospective) here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1188309&postcount=38).

[The Unknown Guy]

Interesting. What I had thought was a "minimalistic" offensive defense: Since the best things you can build at the beggining are spearmen and you have huge borders, having a good military force from the beggining is unfeasible, so I am building forts in every border, and stacking it with a small cheap garrison (ideally slav warriors or spearmen), which is to retreat to the castle if anyone gets funny ideas around me,and then leave three big standing armies, one in Franconia, another in Lorraine (I think) and a third one in Bohemia. This allows to strike out at anything coming around.

Of course, this lefts void the strategy of killing off one small neighbour early on with your starting troops, but in the long run, you suffer less rebellions.

[Deus ret.]

I'd suggest Burgundy as a garrison stronghold - its strategic position is one of the best in the entire game. If you rely on defensive warfare, you'll lose Provence, though.


Of course, this lefts void the strategy of killing off one small neighbour early on with your starting troops, but in the long run, you suffer less rebellions.
Allow me to disagree. Since your neighbors will gang up on you sooner or later, it's better to take one or two out as long as you have some breathing space. Thanks to inbuilt AI hostility against the HRE, their inclination to make peace with you again tends to zero, and most often they avoid conflict among themselves, leaving them more forces to attack you with. Don't get me wrong, they'll relent at some point - when you're down to a mere handful of provinces and have gone through one or two civil wars.

So be a strong player. It will be possible to turtle a little with the HRE, but only in a position of real strength. So grab the opportunity to finish off some of your later enemies and you'll be much better off.

This is my advice at least. You may find your own game very different from these dire predictions, so go ahead and enjoy it! That's the most important thing in any case.

[Maloncanth]

I've never played a serious HRE game before but my opinion would definitely also lean towards the blitz Denmark lobby. The key provinces seem to be Saxony (after Denmark is gone), Burgundy, and Venice (by getting rid of Italy). Getting all three of those, even if it results in bad borders and loss of provinces, would let you turtle and power for a while.

Or, less ambitiously, skip Italy and just get Denmark and hold onto Scandinavia (yay Sweden!) and the northern provinces. If you have a choice as to which of your neighbors will take your sacrifices, in that case, Italy would be a good choice for that too as for Papal reasons, you can often afford a strong mid-game Italy.

This is of course, unless you're playing GA in which case I suppose there's some obligation to hold onto homelands. :p

[General Dazza]

I'm just finishing a HRE campaign (XL, expert, early) and I say 'enjoy'! It's tough but it is a lotta fun.

Here's my 2c worth.

The golden rule is to not get excommed. Early excomm = bye bye HRE.

My early strategy was to turtle and build up my forces. I If you lose too many troops early you may have to cede too many provinces to regroup. l waited for an attack so I could possibly whittle down the enemy's troops without getitng the excomm threat.

I think the best option for first attack though is France. They don't have the early quality of troops as others, and Flanders is a very important provence to take. Also, in my game England was easier to ally with (and thereby secure a border).

I didn't attack Denmark early as they had too many royal knights & vikings. In an earlier HRE game I abandoned I was smeared all over the grass by them. And if they break through in the north you can lose Franconia and possible Swabia. Best to try and ally with them (although good luck - I rarely got anyone to even smile at me as the HRE).

My second attack was against Italy. This was for 2 reasons:
1. Access to more profitable trade
2. Access to the pope. Eventually excomm will become an issue, but if you're able to take the pope out you can eventually negate the problem.

Once I'd taken france and italy (which took a long time to achieve) I turtled again til I had enough troop quality to take on the others. But at one point I was at war with about 5 factions. Hungary was particularly aggressive.

Enjoy the campaign - it's great fun.

Also, in my game, the Spanish controlled all of spain and right up to Normandy.

[guelphling]

I like to turtle with the HRE. I mass produce UM's to garrison Burgundy and Lorraine. I keep spearmen and archers to defend the bridge in Saxony. I like to Ally with England and develop my technology for the next few years.
As far as infrastructure watch towers are 1st on the agenda. Switzerland,Swabia,Bavaria, and Franconia form the hi-tech nucleus of my HRE. I develop farmland in the outlying provinces.

[General Dazza]

I like to turtle with the HRE. I mass produce UM's to garrison Burgundy and Lorraine. I keep spearmen and archers to defend the bridge in Saxony. I like to Ally with England and develop my technology for the next few years.
As far as infrastructure watch towers are 1st on the agenda. Switzerland,Swabia,Bavaria, and Franconia form the hi-tech nucleus of my HRE. I develop farmland in the outlying provinces.

Same with me mostly. I used:
- Franconia for cav and swordsman (due to iron)
- Swabia for Swabian swordsmen and as a second Franconia
- Switzerland for spearmen and eventually Swiss pikemen/halberdiers
- Burgundy for ranged units
- some other province for diplomacy

[The Unknown Guy]

I´m having trouble now. Whereas I was able to pull both my border fortification campaigns, and bring down Denmark (doing it very early, before their king started breeding, and using many UM and the three Vikings/Drangar(pocket mod) you get at the beggining. I´ve even managed to conçuer all up to Norway, where I´m planning to build my capital (geopolitical reasons: if the shit hits the fan, and the south falls, I´m still left with Norway, Sweeden, Denmark, Finland, and Saxony to trade & build troops, plus it gives me a lot of breathing space to absorb enemy attacks)

NOW I *do* have problems. The French and the Italians attacked at the same time. Whereas I managed to shake off the assaults on Burgundy done by both at the same time, having to defend BOTH Provence and Lorraine left me with a weak spot, and thus I was not able to lift the siege in the latter.

WORSE: I failed to retake it, and the pope warned me not to go to war with France in ten years (I hate the pope). However, he didn´t say a word about the Italians, which I´m harassing heavily, while I build my West armies to shake off continued French assaults on Burgundy (proving surprisingly easy: they are attacking accross the river instead of Lorraine. I think I might just win my war against them by the number of heirs they´re losing in those assaults), and build up a force in the east to finish the Italian continental presence once and for all.

For the record: I´m striving to keep burgundy because I have it at a Feudal Sergeants upgrade level, and it would be a shame to lose it. I want peace with the French so that I can annihilate the Doge (and compensate the -temporal- loss of Lorraine by fulfilling the HRE glory goal)

[Deus ret.]

Sounds like a cool campaign, Unknown Guy!


I want peace with the French so that I can annihilate the Doge
Peace? :laugh4: Peace! That was a good one. No, seriously: The only way I was able to end a state of war between me as HRE and another faction was by adding the -ian command switch, which among other things allows you to change the faction under your control. So it's possible send emissaries to my emperor for them.... ok it's cheesy and I only used it for the Pope but the described behavior of the AI is especially perceptible once you've already begun to expand.

If you want peace, you probably will have to aim for eternal peace: No more problems with France. Ever. Oh, and don't be too afraid of excommunication. You may have some capable assassins (5+ stars) by now, so you can have a go at the Pope with them if he proves too much of a nuisance.

[The Unknown Guy]

Well, I dont have assasins, but I have plenty of heirs, and I could simply send the Emperor to a bloody and glorious death. Maybe I´ll even be able to end their dinasty if I kill their king.

Then again, by the time I´ve moved and/or produced enough forces to assault the now-french Lorraine, the ten years will have passed, so I wont get excom-threat. I really need to deal with the Italians, through. They don´t have many "hi-tech" buildings. The best they have are Militia Guards (I think in regular VI it´s "Militia Sergeants" not sure), which should be kill-able with sheer numbers of slavic infantry.

[ULC]

I've had bad experiences with the HRE. They can be a good faction, but they are weak infrastructurally, which casues them to be easily over run. The ONLY time I have seen the HRE do good is when I am the Danish or Hungarians. I think this is because the danes are the "aggressors" (along with the french) that spark the multifaction war you end up facing. Poland and Italy generally join in once your bogged down. As the hungarians, it's probally because I share borders with the Italians and Polish and ally my self with HRE that makes them scared to attack, or if they do, the HRE doesn't have to worry about them for very long. About allainces, I have found that by blitzing an enemy and killing them off in the 2 year time limit cows them pretty well, although I never have to do this with the english, they gleefully join in on the land grap spree that becomes france when I eventually attack them. Also, if your strapped for cash or wish to get the french off your back, blitz Ile de france and flanders early, forcing him into champagne. You can see were that is going. This worked really well for some one else, but try taking out the hungarains. When he did it, every faction immediatly sent an emissary to him, and it he did execellent throughout the game, until he came to spains rescue via crusade and met 4 almo stacks:skull: :skull: .

[The Unknown Guy]

Ok, I'm in dire straits. The French keep trying to assault Burgundy (to no avail), but the Italians are getting serious. Since I flooded them with slavic warriors, now they´re doing the same with Militia Guards.

Now, I was pondering to stand to it, but there are several problems:

- I have to get enough armies from the north to the south
- I am very short on cash
- The BLASTED FRENCH WAR. I can't use the Burgundy Garrison as assistance until that one ends. And they persist in not ending it.
- Byzantium rules the steppes, in fact, right down to Prussia. It´s a matter of time before they decide to go into "Kill HRE Pretender" mode

So I´m going to do this, after I call it a day and start a slightly easier Italian or Sicilian game to keep an eye on Spain and her Jinettes, and whether I was successful at hitting their economy:

- First: raze all Italian provinces I have taken. I´m going to lose them anyway. Might as well ease a bit my poor economy.

-Second: Raze all provinces within range of the French aggresion. Sooner or later I´ll lose a battle, and then my somewhat developed province of Swabia will jump into their hands. Again, I need to strenghten my economy. I´ll do the same with the south, but I left that on purpose less developed on infrastructure.
-Move my northern garrisons to Brandenburg and Saxony, hence locking Denmark and Norway, where I already had taken steps to establish my building centers. I´ll keep that on, using my plundered money. Also, it will be easier to defend from there.

Now, I know this is desperate, and will mean a hit on Victory Points, but that prostacted war is taking a toll anyway. I need to secure myself a base, as fast as possible. My hope is that once the Byzantines finish Poland for good, they´ll start traveling west, and meet the Italians and the French, and that the subseçuent wars and bloat effect, combined by a cheap yet effective viking taskforce, will allow me to reclaim homelands in time. That or leap to the British Isles, and start my HRE anew conçuering from Scotland downwards. I´ll lose half of my slav warriors provinces, through :(

[General Dazza]

Sounds like a challenge Unknown - stick with it! :sweatdrop:

But I wouldn't raze all theose provinces. To defend your borders you need troops, and to get troops you need cash. Don't take out your future income streams. You might get on top, but then when you start to expand you'll struggle again.


I had a similar pain in my campaign. I was at war with the Hungarians but the Pope was protecting them. I was also at war with italy and france.

I was at war with these three for ages, just holding on. Eventually I got lucky as Italy sent 3000+ troops to provence. I then attacked it's only retreating province and then massed everything I had and attacked it's provence stack. Luckily they withdraw and automatic annihilation.

My tip is be patient. Hold the line and wait for an opportunity.

[The Unknown Guy]

I was planning to move my production centers north, and in fact I´d been doing so for a while. Saxony and Brandenburg are already capable of producing Sergeants and Men At Arms. What I´m going to do is abandon Swabia and Switzeland (Swabia was the only truly developed province of those) and destroy the castles, so when I counterattack, the enemy can´t hold my troops there in a siege.
Burgundy, which is also Sergeant-able, I will leave with it´s current garrison, as it´s more than able to hold invasions through the river, and I already defeated a french force coming from Lorraine. The Italian cities I´m razing are Milan and Genoa, and they don´t have much barring keeps and bowyers able to churn out crossbowmen. Since Italy is flooding me with cheap useless things (and I might do the same, building legions of Slav warriors to harass them) I´m removing the severe annoyance of having to deal with crossbowmen, their only armored unit to date.
Damn, I wish I could raze Venice, but they are well garrisoned there, and my southeastern strike force is decimated. Hence my need to retreat to production centers and less wide frontiers. (very bad VP wise) :/
The good thing is that most of Germany can stay intact, as I left most provinces as "economical", not military, things. (Swabia was the exception because I hoped to get Swabian swordsmen in time to kick the French out of Lorraine)

[ULC]

You can end the war with the French within two years! First, raze and abandon all your lower provinces except Swabia, bump up the tax rate so that they are very disloyal, then retreat to lorriane and burgundy. Then attack Ile de france and flanders, forcing thier king into champagne. Then attack champagne with all that you can muster (make sure Ile de france and flanders are garrisoned enough so their are no loyalist revolts, otherwise it will ruin it.) If done correctly, and with a little luck, you should now have decent rebels blocking italian and hungarian advances into your empire, and recievced a nice fat paycheck for the french king, maybe even eliminated the french entirely.

[Vladimir]

The blitz France option is usually your best opening move. The turtle and hope nothing bad happens usually ends in disaster.

[The Unknown Guy]

Ok, I won the war. Still not over but I won it.

First: I assaulted Lorraine with around fourteen hundred trash troops, 500 sergeants, a men-at-arms unit, and a royal prince. The attack was a fragfest to the strongly garrisoned French province, which among other things had lots of Militia Sergeants, bowmen, Hobbilars, two ballistas which were killing off my unit from a safe fortified forest, three sergeants or so, and four spearmen units or so. It was a massacre. I lost the battle with twelve hundred casualties (most of them trash-troops-- the sergeants got battered, but survived for the most part), and killed only 600 french. Besides, this got me excommed. However, it provided leverage for the following assault, which included all my Franconian stores of trash infantry, eight hundred sergeants, six bowmen units, and a crown prince. The french retreated, leaving a garrison in Lorraine which shall be trashflooded, and furthermore, retreating all their surrounding troops to Paris, leaving Champagne without any protection, and Tolouse along the same lines.

In the Italian front I slash-burned Milan and Genoa, sadly removing the keeps, but I needed the cash in the north, and if I left things standing they might just be turned against me. Then I assaulted the undermanned Florence. This turned out to be the Doge´s undoing: His influence plumetted, and half his Venetian garrison/bodyguard force went into civil war, so no matter the outcome, the loser will be weakened enough so that I can put an end to their presence there.
So now I hold half of the HRE Glory Goal.
Plans:
-Slash and burn Provence and Champagne, following the Italian method. Then either force the French into a bitter peace, or exterminate them. Either will do. Razing Champagne will mean a SEVERE hindrance to their war efforts, even if they recover the province (which is not impossible, as the Paris forces are rather large)

- Keep on fortifying and building in the North: If ANYTHING goes awry, I can retreat there and build up my forces & trade a lot. See below for something that could go awry

- Prepare for a potential Byzantine invasion. Not that they have been aggressive towards me, but they might just give it a try, and now they´re a juggernaut. For this I´ll need to fortify key provinces with Sergeants and Genovese sailors (once I rebuild my new Italian provinces), and leave non-key provinces with skeleton garrisons in forts, backed by assault armies of cavalry and men at arms, with some sergeants as anti katatanks -just in case (now that things are going right I HOPE I can finally get good çuality standing armies, and leave trashflooding as an emergency, guerrilla warfare tactic. And do it with half of the trash being slav javs, being both cheap and capable of dealing heavy casualties to strong armored units)

- If everything goes right: fulfill the Holy Roman Empire goal, taking Rome and Naples, and kicking the Pope back to the papal states. Then hopefully either make peace or raid them to the point of their armies not posing a serious threat (I don´t want to hold a garrison in Italy while the Byzantines rampage in the steppes)

[The Unknown Guy]

Ok, the problems hit the fan: the Hungarians, French (that´s what happens for not exterminating them), English (weren´t they supposed to be warring with the French anyway?) and Poles attacked at the same time.
So I had to pull my "scortched Earth" plan.
Now, I have lots of sergeants and troops, and kicked the Novgorods out of Finland (in order to close another border, gain more cash, and expend some of my cheap militias ... if the area south of Finland only presents one border I´ll attack it too)
Hungary has cut it´s way through to Silesia. There they stopped, for some reason. The French have retaken Lorraine, and the English have briefly held to that province West of Saxony, but I kicked them out (It´s my main shipyard).

What stands, currently: Burgundy (Probably for long. I have sergeants, some men at arms, some bowmen, and four ballistas to rain death on enemy generals), Venice (Don´t know for how long. Things seem pretty dire over there. I lack cash, and I lack decent military buildings there. I might pull out a scortched earth, then kamikaze it´s garrison against some weak hungarian-held territory to slash and plunder), and the North (namely, all north of Saxony, plus Brandenburg and Pomerania. For some reason Franconia was respected, althrough I had to scortch its military buildings due to lack of cash and impossibility to defend it).

- Good things: I have a great army at the north with which I can both defend my provinces and lash out, plus good infrastructure (no knights yet, however :( ), and the Burgundy Garrison can bite enemies in the rear when I strike down. Also, I managed to pul out six inçuisitors to harass Hungarian advances (I´ve followed Papal orders concerning the French to the letter so far, I´m entitled to have some inçuisitors)

- Bad things: I´m badly out of cash. My army is composed mainly of sergeants (expensive, and not an efficient attack force) and militia (which routs, lowering the morale of my proper units.) I need to reform the army: get rid of the militia, reduce the sergeant number to the barest minimum to garrison the north, and keep men-at-arms forces, which are both cheaper to produce and maintain, and more useful attacking. At most keep one sergeant unit to shoo away cavalry.

I´m going to fight this one to the bitter end. :p

Mithrandir:edited language

[ULC]

Good luck to you, UG. I find that although the HRE is definelty not on everyones buddy list, The are in one of the best positions to literaly ransom every nieghbouring Catholic king! I generally ransom the French King first, followed by the Hungarian King, then the Polish King(only if they have another province), and finally the Italian Doge. This literally cripples the AI around me though, so the English take france, the Sicilians takes Italy, Byzantium takes Hungary, and if the Polish are unlucky, are swallowed up by the Russians. I generally have to kill the danes myself.

[The Unknown Guy]

I SHOULD have killed the French while I had the chance, even if I got excommunicated. Excommunication is no big deal when you can send your leader to certain death and get recommunicated. Now I have to build up an economy in the north (SOMEHOW) and at the same time build the infrastructure required for knights. Burgundy should be a decent anvil to hammer the French against, if it holds. Venice would be a nice Hungarian harasser, but it won´t hold.
If I manage to get out of the red alive, I might consider to invade Scotland by sea, however. The English are excommed, their king is besieged, and I´m harassing their son with inquisitors. If I can pull out a decent fleet and blow out of the water the limitless number of Italian galleys I should be able to manage that. And Britain is far safer than Germany as a base of operations.

[Martok]

Yeah, destroying the French might've been the best thing, particularly since (as you said) you can send your Emperor to his death at any time. Don't forget the HRE has the singular advantage of being the only playable faction that can't be destroyed from your family line dying out, so don't be afraid to use that to your advantage when necessary. ~;)

Also, if you do end up attacking the English, then I would recommend not invading Scotland first off if you can help it. Of all the provinces of Britain, it's both the poorest *and* the hardest to successfully invade. In addition, there's that wonderful "rebelliousness" one must factor in when occupying Scotland -- you'll need to keep a hefty garrison there for a good while. I normally save Scotland for last, all things being equal.

Mercia or Northumbria is a better starting target if you can manage it. Wessex is good too - especially with grabbing the Tower of London - but I think you might have to fight a bridge battle if you invade it by sea. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. ~:)

[Great Est.]

As for the Jinette thing, I don't think it matters that much what you do to them in terms of for the AI. I've never had a game where the Almos and Spaniards end up in a standoff. They almost ALWAYS attack each other, and when they do, one of them will ALWAYS end up steamrolling the other.

I'm playing as the Hungarians and the Spanish and Almos are still coexisting and with their original territories in 1160. In fact, only the Aragonese have been wiped out (Their king continued to invade the French all alone).
I agree the Spanish or the Almos usually wipe each other out, usually the Spanish in my experience. But I think since I'm taking it slow on this campaign, every faction has been able to survive in their own lands and not get "pushed" to invade their neighbors. Do AI factions tend to survive and coexist longer when one follows more of a turtling strategy?
As for the HRE, I have been allied with them from go, focusing my efforts on Italians and the Byz. Two reasons for this: I wanted them to be a buffer against the French and English and I want them to build themselves up to provide more of a challenge. Especially in an early start, they are easy pickings for the Szekely (sp?).

[seireikhaan]

For Hungary, I usually grab the rebels in the surrounding areas first, until I've got Kiev as my eastern border. Then I build up so I can churn out Szekely and Avar Nobles from Moldavia. DON'T FORGET THE AVAR NOBLES! They are a great cavalry early on.

Once I get that, I target the Byzantines and pound them in until I've got Constantinople. I usually stop there for the one border. Also, an optional move along this timeline is to go for Venice early, however I usually don't because I know I'll stretch myelf even thinner. Another optional move is to wipe out Poland and take the territory from Pomerania to Lithuania in the north. Again, I prefer to skip over this option while I wait for the horde.Once I've got the "triangle of Kiev/Constantinople/Venice or Serbia, I like to turtle until I've faced down the horde. Kiev makes an excellent place to put your defences, as its a bridge battle. Just make sure to have LOTS of Halberds/Arbs/Chiv. Seargeants for the battle.

The HRE can be left for later, they usually leave me alone, as they have other fish to fry.

[caravel]

I SHOULD have killed the French while I had the chance, even if I got excommunicated. Excommunication is no big deal when you can send your leader to certain death and get recommunicated.
Excommunication is not a factor for the HRE as you're more often that not at war with most of your neighbours anyway. It is good idea to base your empire on an excommunicated existence, constructing a maximum of happy buildings to quell the unrest. And you can use it to your advantage in that most factions crusading against you can usually be reached by your forces quickly, so dropping a stack into the province that launched the crusade will demolish the chapter house, ending the crusade and possibly catapulting your rival into civil war.

[The Unknown Guy]

Setback: won several battles, but then was brought down by a Crash to Desktop (was saving the game and while the menu loaded I crashed

Indeed. I´m taking that in mind and assaulting Tolouse´s castle (I can´t afford to starve them out: I have to slash and burn, and go back to Burgundy before the inevitable happens and they send an army & assault my castle)

Trying some Lothaironomics measures such as switching from building Sergants to Men at Arms, or even better (cheaper, that is), Militia Guards.
Meanwhile Novgorod has taken a Not Amused At All foerign policy regarding my invasion of Finland, but for some fancy they respect Pommerania (maybe because, unlike me, they are already at war with Byzantium. Hence their attempts to retake Finland being poor)

The French have a ship in the north sea, and attempted a wild "invasion of Denmark" scheme which scared the (guess by the color) out of me, despite being a huge failure. I have some ships left to blockade their moves there, but I need a shipyard to replace them, fast...

Hungary doesn´t move. It might be because my pet inçuisitors brought down in flames a couple of generals and one of two of his dukes, or it might be because they´re starting to bloat. If fate´s fair their king will walk into Franconia, and allow my expeditionary force to cut him off his Empire, and either spawn a civil war or ransom him for lots of cash. Or both. Perhaps that´s the reason it´s not moving too much.

[naut]

You inspired me to give the HRE a go, (images (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1522077&postcount=1074)). My basic strategy was:


Firstly turtle and consolidate my borders. I trained UM as garrisons and centralised my Spearmen.
Invasion by France prompted the abandoning of Province. And counter-attacks deep into French territory.
With the French immobilised I was able to repel the marauding Danes and regroup my forces to halt the Hungarian advance.
Alliance with Poland and Italy came through sheer luck and allowed breathing space.
Crushed the Danes to prevent them crippling me from the rear and free up forces to invade France.
Once France was taken I allied my self with Aragon and back stabbed the Italians who had already been excommunicated, allowing me breathing space knowing that I would not be for attacking them.


In regard to provinces


Centralised production of military units to Swabia, Lorraine, Burgundy, Bavaria and Switzerland.
Pumping out plenty of ships in Denmark, Friesland and Saxony.

[The Unknown Guy]

With the input in here and Cambryses´s advice about how to bypass the CTD that has been taking place everytime I try to pass the current turn, I´ll beat Novgorod´s attack force at Finland AGAIN, and stop the French Sea Raids AGAIN, and hopefully manage not to CTD after I´ve done that.
I kind of wish that France invades Burgundy through Ile de France. I want to see what the Ballistas I accumulated thanks to a loyalist uprising can do at a bridge bottleneck.

[Don Corleone]

I kind of wish that France invades Burgundy through Ile de France. I want to see what the Ballistas I accumulated thanks to a loyalist uprising can do at a bridge bottleneck.

Unless you get lucky and the French are dumb enough to send their general within ballista firing distance, not too much. That ballista is shooting a javelin (as opposed to a catapult or a trebuchet, which are firing large boulders, or a cannon, which is firing a lead ball). As soon as somebody 'catches' it, i.e. gets impaled with it, it stops. Translation, for each shot on your ballista, you may kill exactly one target, assuming you hit any of them (but with the force it carries, I imagine armor and shields will be useless).

Therefore, even though it's cheesy (as they always seem to have ballista-javellin magnetic armor on), aim for the general and hope to take him out. Otherwise, they don't do all that much.

In my opinion, the BEST thing to bring to a defensive bridge battle? The Organ Gun I had perched on a knoll next to the bridge when the horde finally crossed into one of my territories (I was playing as Italy, but I had started in High. I want to say it was Hungary, but I could be mistaken). That organ gun SHREDDED the Mongol Heavy cavalry. My Doge was actually my general that day. He personally wept and kissed each man of the crew, who picked up something like 3 valor from that one battle (no kidding, they killed 250 guys).

[The Unknown Guy]

I made in the past some custom battle experiments on the Acre map with artillery. The highest casualty-causing ones were by far Culverins (as you can blow things up from very far away, thus starting the massacre early on), followed closely by Demi-Culverins and Organ-guns in a turtle-array. Serpentines were pathethic, as far as cannons go. They didn´t deal nearly that ammount of casualties, and were useless in assaults, as they didn´t deal nearly as much damage as a Culv, or even a DemiCulv (less damage&range but more ammo than the Culv). The Serpentine was a kind of very weak version of the Demiculv, having a shorter range, a closer firing limit, and dealing puny damage to walls.

And yes, I know, from those experiments, that the most pathetic of all siege weapons was the Ballista. I just want to try it because of two things

- I have six, and in bridge battles I wont need many melee units.

- The French will/have frustrated my assault attempt at Tolouse using them, by going straight ahead for Burgundy. I use that relative time term because the CTDs altered the nature of space-time in my TW game.

-Furthermore: I don´t have trash units to throw into the arrowfest, and I knew that, should I/when I divert enough units to defend Burgundy, my assault would/had failed (see explanation above)

[The Unknown Guy]

Ok, the çuicksave trick saved me from the crash:
-Big debacle in the south. Had to raze Venice, as it was about to be invaded. Burgundy holds, on the other hand, and I managed to make razia attacks against the surrounding conçuered French lands, getting some ransom cash, or at least dealing heavy casualties with few losses. I´m particularily interested in cutting off conçuered provinces in order to get loyalist revolts. Or plain revolts. I don´t care.

-On the East: Conçuered the province of Novgorod. After that their remaining forces (which are considerable, as they roam the steppes-- Byzantium is left to roughly Greece + Asia Minor, I think they still hold former Turkish lands) were beaten trying to retake it, they decided to take the battle to me, at Pommerania and Brandenburg. Not a particularily smart move. They suffered heavy losses at Brandenburg, and in Pommerania, I just retreated to the castle, so that I can launch some sergeants I have at Saxony as a relief force (they don´t have a REAL army there. Just enough to beat my meager, formed-by-sheer-chance, javelinmen garrison if they felt like it)

-The battle for the North Sea continues: I have to cash out 350 florins every turn to keep the french from owning a sea route right into my North stronghold

-On the bright side: besieging Flanders, with a force composed mainly of men-at-arms, which should be enough to repell any attack for the two turns I need to starve the garrison out (or simply assault it with trashtroops to break the gates and then pummel to death whatever remains)

In general, taking a severe beating, but as long as I keep myself in the blue, I should be able to hold on. Plus, I own Novgorod.
Sidenote: going to stop to rely on trashtroops for defense. They have the nasty habit of running away from their reflection, lowering the morale of my better troops in the process. I´m pondering disbanding them all, and use the extra income to keep building up my economy & get more men at arms & keep teching up to some decent cavalry (there´s virtually NO decent cavalry around. A combination of Knights and Men at Arms should cut through my enemies liike butter). In fact, they are now a hindrance more than an aid in any battle except sieges (where I need something cheap to take the oil discharges)

[Martok]

Glad to you were able to recover your campaign, man. :medievalcheers:

A pity you had to sacrifice Venice, but it's good to see you've at least got Flanders under siege. Taking the county will be a significant blow to the French, not to mention which her income will add quite nicely to your own coffers. As far as spurring revolts in further French-held domains, I encourage you to send in a few spies if you've not already done so -- they can really make a difference in these types of situations, especially if you've dismantled the border forts in the lands you've razed.


Sidenote: going to stop to rely on trashtroops for defense.
An excellent idea. :yes:

[General Dazza]

Sidenote: going to stop to rely on trashtroops for defense.
I second that. I always have my quality troops in my border provinces and use trashtroops as backfillers to keep loyalty up in the rear. When you organise it well your quality troops can keep moving forward while your trashies backfill just as quickly.