Having Jerusalem's Population Get Jiggy with the New Regime

[Indy1958]

Dear Gang:

Good morning from Canada!!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I really can't complain...yadda, yadda, yadda.

I've just finished a successful campaign, as Sicily, and now I'm finding I'm having problems with the population in Jerusalem. In short, they're not happy with me being there. I want to get King Roger back to Naples as soon as possible, but right now he's still in Jerusalem supporting the new governor.

Any suggestions, vague notions and/or ideas for helping this population get jiggy with the new regime greatly appreciated!!!!

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

Try taking him out of the settlement. High piety is very negative for religious unrest if majority of pop is not of same religion. Usually send in/spam priests first to convert the region then conquer when you got 75% or more

[alex9337]

As a Catholic nation taking Jerusalem, it would have been wise to exterminate the population, instead of occupy or sack. Fewer people, less chance of rebellion.

By your thread, it's already too late for that, right?

So, in case you haven't thought of it, build a church and pump out priests! Get your catholic % high. This greatly alleviates the unrest situation.

Keep a very high garrison. This goes without saying. Keep at least 2 spies in your city. Build happiness buildings.

That's about all you can do, but it should work. Works for me!

Oh, and by the way, " Good day, eh" back at you from Canada!

[Bob the Insane]

Keep an eye out for spies, the AI loves ot throw a few in and with the religious unrest and large population a spy or two and completely tip the balance to revolt... Just make sure you have a few decent spies of your own in the settlement...

If you have assassins of any skill it is worthwhile trying to "encourage" any Imans to leave the area...

[alex9337]

Right, forgot about the assassin part! Definitely "convincing" the imans to leave, preferably in a box, helps to alleviate the muslim religious affect!

[Shahed]

Dear Gang:

Good morning from Canada!!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I really can't complain...yadda, yadda, yadda.

I've just finished a successful campaign, as Sicily, and now I'm finding I'm having problems with the population in Jerusalem. In short, they're not happy with me being there. I want to get King Roger back to Naples as soon as possible, but right now he's still in Jerusalem supporting the new governor.

Any suggestions, vague notions and/or ideas for helping this population get jiggy with the new regime greatly appreciated!!!!

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

Hi Indy,

Click click:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=83484&highlight=outremer

Best always !

[John_Longarrow]

You could always pull everything out of the city and wait for it to revolt. I've found that doing this and giving it to the Pope works very well. In my current Scot campaign I've just finished my 3rd successful crusade for the Holy city and its not even turn 70 yet! :2thumbsup:

[Patricius]

Giving something to the Pope in that region might be exploitative of the engine. The Pope does like it. I have found that so pleased was he that when I ignored a demand to cease war on the Venetians - Venice was temporarily without a proper garrison, so I swop - I only fell a little in his esteem. Now I think that other factions can attack the Papal armies, but as for attacking its cities, that seems to be vanishly rare, if it happens at all. I try to ensure the challenge of holding and converting large cities in Outremer. There are a good number of castles (and the rest might as well be made castles as the income is only worthwhile to a distant European faction in one or two places like Antioch or Alexandria) so the resources needed are not as bad as could be imagined. And with the usually too easy effort of taking Alexandria and Cairo, a distant Outremer is not too much of parasite on resources.

[John_Longarrow]

Patricius,

The really unfair part about giving it to the Pope is how quickly the population goes down. I've got a pet theory that the Pope goes Rambo on the locals...


:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :hmg:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :rifle:

[Patricius]

Population falls?

That's strange. I would have thought the Papacy simply has a no revolt characteristic like the Senate's cities in RTW.

I pile in priests and ensure I hold one or more bordering provinces. While it does seem be a veritable heretic engine, it has not revolted on me ever.

Ultimately, if an ME city is problematic I tend to convert it into a castle. The Mongols and Timurids have to be fought at some point, as do the locals.

[Shahed]

Can't convert Jerusalem unless you mod the game, it's already got stone walls from about turn 5.

[John_Longarrow]

Patricius,

What has been happening is as follows;
I crusade and take over the city.
I build a church or maybe hold on to it until I get one upgrade to the church.
I turn out a priest to help with the local conversion.
After two or three turns I pull out my big crusading stack and give it to the Pope.

At this point everything goes down hill quickly since the Pope can't get a good garrison in the city. Last time he put in 6 balista. :wall:

With Egypt having spies in the city, it goes down the unrest-revolt path pretty quickly. Thats where the population loss occurs.

When I come back on crusade a few turns later the population is about half of what it was when I left. Right now its just under 6,000.

I've a feeling my Scots will become professional crusaders! Now I just need to start shipping unmounted knights back to Scotland for use against the Aztecs... :devil:

[dismal]

Can't convert Jerusalem unless you mod the game, it's already got stone walls from about turn 5.

Don't think walls are an issue in M2TW are they? They used to generate culture penalty in RTW, and culture penalty is no more, I think.

Your big problems in MTW are over population, religious unrest, enemy spies and distance to capital. It seems like it usually takes at least 2 or 3 of these at once for revolt to be a possibility.

Obviously, the answers are things like:

Overpopulation - sack
Religion - convert (in advance is better)
Spies - counter spies
Distance to Capital - relocate capital

You also, of course want to repair any order buildings you may have damaged, keep taxes low and garrisons big. If you have decent governor around it can help too.

[Shahed]

dismal, that's not the issue. The problem is that if the city already has stone walls (or is beyond 16K population?) you can't convert it to a castle.

You can mod this but if you don't mod it you can't convert it as it's disabled in the game parameters.

Distance to capitol and base unrest are issues in Jerusalem, I'm playing kind of stubbornly right now. I'll relocate from London after Paris is fully or close to fully developed. I like London ! :D actually I LOVE London ! ;D

Then again my campaign ojectives are my own objectives:

1. Control Euro holdings: France, England, Ireland, Flanders. Wanted Scandanavia too, but can't be bothered to spend money on that so it's gone to the Danes.
2. Control Jerusalem, Acre, Antioch and Aleppo. I have only achieved one of these goals. I'm working on the rest. Mongols have arrived as well.
3. Control Arguin, Timbuktu. Did you know that earthquakes occur like every 2 turns over there specially every time I manage to sneak a new governor past the Moors ? ARRGG !
4. Control America.

[Patricius]

Patricius,

What has been happening is as follows;
I crusade and take over the city.
I build a church or maybe hold on to it until I get one upgrade to the church.
I turn out a priest to help with the local conversion.
After two or three turns I pull out my big crusading stack and give it to the Pope.

At this point everything goes down hill quickly since the Pope can't get a good garrison in the city. Last time he put in 6 balista. :wall:

With Egypt having spies in the city, it goes down the unrest-revolt path pretty quickly. Thats where the population loss occurs.

When I come back on crusade a few turns later the population is about half of what it was when I left. Right now its just under 6,000.

I've a feeling my Scots will become professional crusaders! Now I just need to start shipping unmounted knights back to Scotland for use against the Aztecs... :devil:

That does suggest revolt and a sacking, which must mean Papal cities revolt like any other. I never played on larger unit sizes with this cruddy computer as I could with RTW. It was possible to find that every other Brutti large city had only 400 people as it was stripped for recruits on the huge unit sizes, but no, revolts must be it.

I try to make destroying Egypt a very early priority. If I can get two stacks of crusaders, I will keep this force after the crusader and take Alex and Cairo, which are never heavily defended from what I seen. That certainly does not solve the spy problem as Egypt troublemakers from Jeddah, Dongola or Baghdad, but it makes thing easier.

Historically taking Cyprus as Richard Coeur de Lion did from that separatist emperor, might make a lot of strategic sense - it gives options regarding the ME.

[John_Longarrow]

Patricius,
I am positive the city revolted. I don't think the Pope is immune to this problem as I've caused unrest in ROME before with a couple well placed spy's. I'm going to see if I can get him kicked out of his own home soon in a game I've got going as the Moors.

Of course I've got a very evil plan for dealing with the Pope. I'm going to take an island, convert it to Islam, and then give it to the Pope before I take Rome. That should result in him appearing in a very hostile land thats nominally under papal control. Hopefully it will keep him wandering around without any real way of reinforcing while his new home revolts.

[TevashSzat]

Rome is the captial for the papal states I think and is either near impossible or impossible for your capital to revolt and kick you out I think

[dismal]

dismal, that's not the issue. The problem is that if the city already has stone walls (or is beyond 16K population?) you can't convert it to a castle.

OK. Somehow I missed that you were talking about converting to a castle.

Honestly, I don't believe I have ever converted a city to a castle.

Usually, if I am taking cities of a different religion I keep 3 or 4 priests/imams nearby and at least a couple spies. I almost never have revolts. Maybe one every three campaigns or so. And even then, revolts aren't the end of the world.

[Shahed]

True.

The only time I like to convert is if I want a frontier castle.

I also sent spies ahead of the Crusade, and priests have been there since 1090, now it's 1120 or so.

In this case, my capitol is London, and the city in question is Jerusalem. So here I'm taking near maximum or certainly maximum distance to capital penalty plus something like 55% base unrest. It would be wise to convert this to a castle as that would reduce distance to capitol. But I'm gonna leave it as is, just for RPG value. In this case, revolts can be a problem because outside Jerusalem are the Turks, the Egyptians and the Mongols. I modified my game slightly by giving every faction a million florins, so you have to be somewhat careful when you venture outside IF you have the chance to go outside, usually you're under siege. I have not yet done that with the Mongols. This makes the situation a lot more challenging, but even if it was vanill- unmodded (etc), even so controlling Jerusalem from London is a chore.

[sbroadbent]

Rome is the captial for the papal states I think and is either near impossible or impossible for your capital to revolt and kick you out I think

I can verify that any settlement is susceptible to revolting, regardless of who controls it or it's status. All you need are several spies and assassins working faster than your enemy can to restore order. The larger the settlement, the more likely it is to fall.

[steev]

The best bit about taking jerusalem and exterminating the population is that its historically accurate. I also make a point of exterminating every time I take Magdeburg, even though this isnt 100% historically accurate as they didnt do this until the Thirty Years War. I'd exterminate more often but usually I need the buildings. Later in the game you can exterminate as much as you like, as its all muslims, orthodox, or you own the Pope, and you're loaded. Also as point of principal I never ransom any of the Mongols.