Fallout 3 discussion

[John the Mad]

FO3 wasn't a bad game but neither was it a good one.

It really did play like oblivion with guns.

I'd give it a 5/10.

They did all of the crappy Oblivion stuff while trying to make it a real fallout game.

A B- for effort and a C+ for execution.

The really funny thing was reading their forums and everyone was complaining that they couldn't max out(sigh).

Bethsoft needs to decide if its making games to please a younger or older crowd.

[White_eyes:D]

Bethsoft needs to decide if its making games to please a younger or older crowd.
Bethsoft did the best they could with the game:hide: Personally, I am surprised it sold as well as it did....with how much people complain:laugh4:

The bottom line is if it sells:yes:......but I think they did a good job, mostly:beam:

[a completely inoffensive name]

With all the complaints the game is still the greatest of 2008. I give it a solid 9/10.

[Lemur]

So I finally broke down and bought a couple of DLCs through Games for Windows Live. Two thoughts:

Games for Windows Live is not ready for retail. If it were open-source software the version number would be 0.3.
Four support calls later, still can't get the content to show up in the game. Unforgivable. I will never say a mean thing about Steam again.

[Beskar]

I had no problem with it in the game. Did you download it and which DLC are you on about? You have to go to the areas to get them.

[Lemur]

I have the retail version of the game, patched to 1.6. I picked up all of the DLCs except for the Alaska one, which seemed rather thin. I'm on support call to GFWL number five, and trust me, there are real problems.

I know all about going to special areas to get the missions, but thank your for pointing this out.

I've been all over the support boards trying to find a fix. If they would just release a manual download for the 1.7 patch, I'd be oh-so-much-closer to having this work, but it's only through GFWL, for reasons that passeth understanding.

By the way, the GFWL support number is a well-guarded secret. Microsoft's main support line claims it does not exist, and it's listed nowhere on the GFWL site. I'll let you in on the magic: (877) 274-4349.

-edit-

And I finally solved the "patch to 1.7" problem. I had a hunch IE8 was the culprit and I was right. (My hint was the fact that you cannot buy "points" with IE8, a known compatibility probme with GFWL). I uninstaleld IE8, downloaded and installed a copy of IE7, and was able to get GFWL to patch F3 without crashing. Man, this GFWL is some touchy, unstable tech.

[Beskar]

It is really weird, I had absolutely no problems at all. Though I do own the Steam version of the game. What is the nature of the errors? I am truly curious.

[Lemur]

It is really weird, I had absolutely no problems at all. Though I do own the Steam version of the game. What is the nature of the errors? I am truly curious.
That's the key; you're using Steam. Which is a robust, mature service. I changed out my mobo, moved everything onto a new drive with a new drive letter, and Steam still fired up immediately. That's hardcore.

GFWL follows the Microsoft philosophy where everything is dependent on everything else. So the entire GFWL interface is a subset of Internet Explorer. And I knew from previous wrangling that IE8 does not play well with the GFWL service. Hence my hack, which works.

The problem was that when GFWL attempted to update F3 from 1.6 to 1.7 it would hang at 99%. If you could not complete the update, you could not see your DLC. And in fact GFWL would deny you the ability to play the game if it could not update. Stalemate.

Everyone who has reported no problems is using ... Steam.

Like I said, I'll never say a mean thing about Steam again. For at least the rest of the day. Okay, for an hour.

[Zenicetus]

The problem was that when GFWL attempted to update F3 from 1.6 to 1.7 it would hang at 99%. If you could not complete the update, you could not see your DLC. And in fact GFWL would deny you the ability to play the game if it could not update. Stalemate.

I ran into a similar problem with one of the DLC's, I don't remember which. I'm using the box/DVD version of the game.

IIRC, I fixed it by shutting down the game and GFWL, then going to the Bethesda web site and downloading the latest F3 patch and installing it manually. Once GFWL recognized the current version, it would install and run the DLC content.

[Monk]

I ran into a similar problem with one of the DLC's, I don't remember which. I'm using the box/DVD version of the game.

IIRC, I fixed it by shutting down the game and GFWL, then going to the Bethesda web site and downloading the latest F3 patch and installing it manually. Once GFWL recognized the current version, it would install and run the DLC content.

Yup, this is the only way i could play the DLCs. Patching inside of GFWL is completely broken, you have to install the patch manually through an .exe from bethesda

[Beskar]

The patching froze once completed for me. But other than that (just closing it) it worked fine,

[Lemur]

Yup, this is the only way i could play the DLCs. Patching inside of GFWL is completely broken, you have to install the patch manually through an .exe from bethesda
Problem being that Bethesda and/or Microsoft have decided that there will be no manual download of the 1.7 patch. It has to be done through GFWL or Steam. Hence the brick wall I ran into.

[John the Mad]

Bethsoft did the best they could with the game:hide: Personally, I am surprised it sold as well as it did....with how much people complain:laugh4:

The bottom line is if it sells:yes:......but I think they did a good job, mostly:beam:

So Bethsoft goes and makes it so you can max out a character with the DLC(Not that it was that hard to do before the new content).

Half the people playing it whined the game was too easy and the RP aspects of it didn't give you the same choice's or consequences as the first two games..the other half whined they wanted to be able to max out all stats..guess which half they listened to?

I guess they tried their best but the latest installment in the series played more like Oblivion than Fallout.

Besides that i can't complain as FallOut would be dead without them picking up the franchise.

Though maybe it still is dead as the game played like Elder Scroll VI>though there were glimpses of a good Fallout game.

Thats why i give it a 5/10.They took the worst of their last game and tried.

They get points for trying.

[Lemur]

John the Mad, you might find your milk less curdled if you knew that the next installment, Fallout New Vegas (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas), is being made almost entirely by Black Isle veterans. If the guys who worked on the first two can't make it Fallouty enough for you ... well ...

[Beskar]

I hope officially, they sort of merge Fallout: Vegas with Fallout 3. Not many games doing that, which is disappointing.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Mothership Zeta trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_6ihZmTK8U

[Monk]

Problem being that Bethesda and/or Microsoft have decided that there will be no manual download of the 1.7 patch. It has to be done through GFWL or Steam. Hence the brick wall I ran into.

Thought I'd post this here since I just got back into Fallout 3 ( yes, again. Silence!)

Bethesda apparently caved in to peer pressure as 1.7 is now up on their site (http://fallout.bethsoft.com/eng/downloads/updates.html) for download. GFWL and Steam haters, rejoice!

As a side note I own the Steam version and we don't get updates through steam. That's right. Bethesda doesn't allow it. There's even a huge petition to bring Fallout updates to steam but so far nothing's come of it. GFWL has really done a number on us all. :no:

[Beskar]

I don't think Games for Windows: Live is that bad, I am just hoping it comes to the point you can play Xbox360 games on the computer using it, then it would become really good.

[Zenicetus]

The new and last (supposedly) DLC is out now -- Mothership Zeta.

I went ahead and got it, for basically two reasons. First, I like the game overall, and since I never played the original Fallout games I'm carrying less baggage into it. Also, Bethesda/Microsoft arranged it so that if you buy all the DLC's for the PC, you won't end up with any leftover points on that stupid MS Live! system. Zeta only cost my $6 USD and change, since I had to overspend on "point blocks" to buy Point Lookout. At that price, and to close out my "points" (and hope to never use Microsoft Live! again), it was a no-brainer.

Just a quick first impression here... mostly negative, but I just dipped my toe into it. Maybe it gets better.

Negatives:

This looks like just the rail-shooter I was afraid it was. No real exploration so far, just a linear corridor crawl. It has a very similar feel to the quest where you're captured by the Enclave in the original campaign, so if you enjoyed that quest I guess you'll enjoy this one. Again, this is just a very early first impression and maybe it gets better.... but I don't know how much you can do to avoid a linear DLC when you're trapped on an alien ship and are trying to escape.

There is an absolutely terrible design flaw (IMO) involving game balance and immersion. The comment below is a big spoiler (although you might be expecting it anyway if you've played The Pitt DLC). It involves something that happens in the first 20 minutes of gameplay, so if you've gotten further than that, click the tag:

As I expected, the alien abduction strips you of all your gear. Okay cool... as a high-level (27-28) player I thought that was reasonable, similar to the opening of The Pitt DLC. I was looking forward to a "rats in the walls" scenario, like the one for the abductees in the great Niven/Pournelle "Footfall" novel... using your wits to defeat powerful and strange aliens and their technology.

But no... you barely get into the first half-hour of the scenario, when they give you all your stuff back! And I mean all of it. So now you can stomp around in power armor and all your weapons, all your ammo, all your stimpacks (and I have something like 300 stimpacks). You don't even have to do anything special to get your gear... just kill a single measly alien guard. It takes almost zero effort or skill, unless you go into this DLC as a very low-level character.

I realize I'll eventually be finding alien stuff that's better than what I'm carrying, but it makes the early stage of the DLC way too easy if you're a high-level character and have lots of high-end gear from the campaign and previous DLC's. And most people will, by the time they play this one.

Again, maybe it gets better.... but man, what a terrible design. This could have been a great DLC where you had to learn how the alien tech works (and to be fair, there is some of that). Instead, it's just life as usual with some new alien weapons to play with. The background story of why the aliens are here had better be really good, or else this isn't going to hold my interest for long.

Positives:

The abduction scene is short, but well-done. The overall feel is a little darker and creepier than I was expecting.

Early in the game, you meet a character that's clearly modeled on a classic sci-fi movie. If there's more of that kind of pop culture sci-fi reference in this DLC, it could be fun.

The 3D interiors are very good, and it looks like almost all new, original work... not recycled from the earlier F3 environments. I still want to know why the alien ship uses rivets... but so far, I'm enjoying the scenery even if it is a bit claustrophobic. Bethesda does do scenery well.

[John the Mad]

John the Mad, you might find your milk less curdled if you knew that the next installment, Fallout New Vegas (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas), is being made almost entirely by Black Isle veterans. If the guys who worked on the first two can't make it Fallouty enough for you ... well ...

My milk ain't curdled i'm just suffering from lactose intolerance.:laugh4:

I'm actually suprised at how well they did FallOut.Its just the more you play the game the less it plays like fallout and the more you see oblivion creeping in.

I guess i'm still mad about when they gave into the Max Stats crowd.

You could complete the game several times over,easily,playing as any character type.Yet they felt the biggest problem was that.

[Monk]

I've got mixed feelings about MZ. The setting is great, atmosphere is awesome and the motivations of your captors is actually pretty well done (if a bit cliche). The one problem I have is once you get around 30 or so min into the game you (or at least I) ran into serious problems. The DLC tells you one thing but actually finding out how to do that is a whole 'nother adventure in of itself. There were many parts where I said allowed "What am I supposed to do!?" Say what you want about Point Lookout, at least it never confused the heck outta you.

Not only that but I encountered a bug... towards the end of the DLC (wont spoil anything) there's a door that one of your friends helps unlock. She says "Okay it's clear!" and despawns, obviously having walked through the door. The main issue comes in the fact that for you the door stays locked. I tried everything but I couldn't figure out how to get around the door. Finally I broke down and unlocked it through the console to continue my adventure. :no:

Now for plot spoilers. Won't be anything major, but there's still some spoiltastic stuff so here we go!

As far as the storytelling goes, well aside from the terrible start it gets in the cell stage Zen mentioned, it's actually well done. It's a cliche, sure, but it's manages some truly creepy moments. I will say that they under utilized the whole "humans on board from all eras" thing. I nearly expected to run into Abraham Lincoln or someone who would really have an impact on you as a character. Wouldn't it have been awesome if you, as a slaver met up with old Honest Abe? :laugh4:

But instead we get a few stock characters that felt more like the devs were sitting around and said 'Hey, y'know what would be cool? Seeing a Cowboy in space!"

All in all, the story while a bit shallow, works for what they went for and works well.

[frogbeastegg]

I played Point Look last night. I got fed up of Fallout 3 taunting me with its 'unfinished' status. After sinking over 120 hours into completing it with Broken Steel, it itches to have the game sat there whispering that there's another 5 hours left.

In short, it was the most fun I've had with Fallout 3 despite containing all but one of the things I dislike about the basic game, and having new problems related to its status as a cheap, small download. Bethesda finally gave up on trying (and failing) to tell a serious story and aimed for a freaky, crazy one instead and that worked far better because dodgy writing and voice acting plays right into this tone. That is how you do a hallucination sequence! Far, far better than the one in the basic game - I actually had quite a bit of fun following it around and seeing what the designers had come up with. The exploding mansion was a bit good too. Not many tunnel dungeons either, praise be.

I shall do Mothership Zeta tonight. And then that will be Fallout completed yet again, hopefully for the last time. Please, no more.

[frogbeastegg]

If I had to describe Mothership Zeta in one word that word would would be "tedious". It's nothing but an overly-long kill-crazy corridor shooter, a tunnel dungeon with different artwork and particularly lame enemies. It had some bad performance issues too; the frame rate went right down to slide how on many occasions, and I could hear my xbox struggling to cope.

It's like Bethesda listened to what people hated about the first DLC packs and then bundled it all together to make MZ. We've got wannabe FPS gameplay, no options other than jumping through pre-defined hoops, no roleplaying, banal NPCs, linear pathways and a 'find all the junk' subquest with an annoying amount of junk to gather some of which is in areas you cannot return to. Rubbish - the worst of the 5.

[Greyblades]

I thought it was abit boring too but I have to say getting some more alien blaster ammo and those Gels that could repair all your weapons to full without paying a NPC or sacrificing another weapon was a somewhat decent reward. The boss was abit dissapointing as I was able to disintergrate him before he even got out of his chair. (He may have made an impressive speech or even a song or dance if I had been taking my time but seeing as I was in FPS mode I just shot his head off). One last thing; I have to say I loved the burning hulk of the other spaceship slowly drifting away was pretty impressive.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I was so excited about this last one. But once I saw that the only characters from Earth's past would be a dead astronaut, another friggen soldier from Operation Anchorage (I hated that expansion), a slaver (oh boy haven't seen those in the Wasteland!), a samurai you can't talk to, a 200 year old girl who is annoying and the most interesting guy.... a cowboy who doesn't want to talk and just wants to get shooting, I knew that this would suck. Broken Steel should have been the only expansion I bought.

[Monk]

I was so excited about this last one. But once I saw that the only characters from Earth's past would be a dead astronaut, another friggen soldier from Operation Anchorage (I hated that expansion), a slaver (oh boy haven't seen those in the Wasteland!), a samurai you can't talk to, a 200 year old girl who is annoying and the most interesting guy.... a cowboy who doesn't want to talk and just wants to get shooting, I knew that this would suck. Broken Steel should have been the only expansion I bought.

On the people:

Tell me about it. The Samurai was the most interesting person there and you couldn't even talk to him. I thought, maybe, there would be some point where you'd find a translator device.. or something! But nope. Huge opportunity for some cool dialogue missed. Completely agree that Bethesda really dropped the ball here, I was expecting historical icons but instead we just get a bunch of stock characters who don't want to or can't talk to you

On the Boss battle:

There's no speech. You waltz into the bridge and everyone stands up, turns and immedietly starts shooting. I even let them shoot for a few seconds to see if the Alien would give a dramatic speech, or at least tell me why he was up to what he was doing. But nope! The ship to ship combat was confusing too. Did anyone else freak out when they pushed the fire button? When i first sat in the captain's chair and hit that thing I thought 'Oh crap! better not do that again' :laugh4:

Like i said, i've got mixed feelings about this DLC, i loved the atmosphere but everything else just... ugh. :no:

[frogbeastegg]

The character named in ACIN's spoiler as annoying is voiced by the same person who did Moira, aka the Fallout 3 Queen of Annoying. Certain vowels and words gave it right away, times where the actress couldn't hold the new voice and lapsed into pure insane shopkeeper.