Summer Campaign-Ancient Bracket

[Marshal Murat]

The Ancient Bracket is here with your list of suggested generals.

Rules
There are 14 generals to be offered.
You vote for seven to continue on.
I am trusting that you will honor this system of voting for seven.
Choose your favorites.
This poll will be open for 7 days.

Good Luck :2thumbsup:

[CaesarAugustus]

For me this poll is the hardest of all the brackets to make a choice. Except for Cimon, Antiochus III and Sulla I wanted to vote for every general:embarassed: .

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Sulla was an easy pick for me. He may well have been a despotic ^*&%^%^, but dang could he wage a war. Marius may have been the better organizer, but Sulla was his superior on a battlefield -- and that is saying something.

Nice to see Al's PR machine still works after 23 centuries -- that is a testimony to greatness.

[CountArach]

Alright, who I voted for:

Alexander - No brainer really. Great General, at least on par with anyone here.

Hannibal Barca - You do not run a campaign for as long as he did, only losing one major battle, and not be a great general.

Caesar - Again, a no brainer. Brilliant general, if not the world's greatest Strategician.

Marius - Not only was he at least an above average general, but he managed to put in place major reforms to the Roman army.

Scipio Africanus - My favourite Ancient General. If I put Hannibal in this, the man who beat him had to be in there as well.

Philip of Macedon - Battle of Chaeronea was masterfully fought. Probably my bottom pick though.

I just realised I didn't vote for a seventh. Oh well.

[Conradus]

This was a rare choice, with some obvious and some harder to pick generals.
But I chose for:

Alexander: obviously, one of the greatest military geniuses of the ancient world
Caesar: idem
Hannibal: he just had the rotten luck not to be able to use a victory.
Pompey: if you look at what this man has conquered for the Roman Empire, you'll agree with me. A worthy adversary for Caesar
Marius: He reformed the army, was consul for 7 times and a decent general: says enough.
Cyrus: hardest to pick, but this man did more for the persian empire than any of his successors.
Scipio: great general, able to defeat his most able adversary

[MilesGregarius]

Seems folks need to better acquaint themselves with non-Mediterranean history. Admittedly, Greece and Rome are much better documented than Indian or Chinese history, so perhaps in this case, it's not the victors who write the history books, but the history books that define the victors.

Chandragupta Maurya having only three votes is a sad, sad situation. The man only conquered the near entirety of modern day India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and half of Iran - an area as large or larger than Alexander's own empire. Sources are sketchy, but Chandragupta retook satrapies that may have been governed by some of Alexander's lieutenants, and he definitely got the better of Seleucus I Nicator.

Similarly, Qin Shi Huangdi is the man that finally put an end to the Warring States Period in China. That he did so by force, against enemies who had been defending their independence for two plus centuries, indicates a certain amount of prowess.

The likes of Marius and Sulla may have been great generals, but they certainly didn't achieve anywhere near the tangible results that Chandragupta or Shi Huangdi did. Even Caesar's achivements pale in comparison. It would seem to me that actual impact on world history, rather than extent of documentation, should weigh more in judging a general's greatness, particularly in this time period. Accordingly, Alexander, Chandragupta, Shi Huangdi, Cyrus, and Caesar easily rank. After that, based on their contemporaries opinions of them, I'd say Hannibal and Scipio would have to round out the top seven, though I wouldn't argue (too much) with Philip, Marius, or Sulla.

[CaesarAugustus]

Chandragupta Maurya having only three votes is a sad, sad situation. The man only conquered the near entirety of modern day India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and half of Iran - an area as large or larger than Alexander's own empire. Sources are sketchy, but Chandragupta retook satrapies that may have been governed by some of Alexander's lieutenants, and he definitely got the better of Seleucus I Nicator.

Similarly, Qin Shi Huangdi is the man that finally put an end to the Warring States Period in China. That he did so by force, against enemies who had been defending their independence for two plus centuries, indicates a certain amount of prowess

Chandragupta was one of my votes, but Shi Huangdi didn't make the cut because the Qin were much stronger than the other states, and Shi Huangdi had at least a million men at his disposal (this might be a slight exageration by historians, but given China's population at the time it is qutie plausible). I chose Marius over him because not only was he an accomplished general, he reformed the Roman military into the most powerful fighting force in the Ancient world, and had the respect and adoration of the common people (something which Shi Huangdi definently lacked).

It definently would be nice to see some eastern generals in the final rounds, Maurya is definently worthy. Personally I think it will come down to either Hannibal, Alexander, Caesar or Scipio, though.

[Conqueror]

I only voted for 6, hope that's not bad.

[CaesarAugustus]

I noticed that El Cid was overlookedwill be added to the medieval poll, so maybe Mithridates Eupator VI should be added to this ancient poll.... unless it is too full already, but Mithridates deserves to be on here....

[Marquis of Roland]

Why Qin Shi Huangdi and not Sun Tzu?

[Marshal Murat]

Sun Tzu was not requested (I have been wrong before though, so if you find the post then alert me)

[MilesGregarius]

Sun Tzu was not requested (I have been wrong before though, so if you find the post then alert me)

From: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1513398&postcount=18


Rather than Sulla or Marius, solidly competent but not exemplary, I'd say you'd be better off with Pyrhus, Aetius, and/or Belisarius. Qin Shi Huang, Sun Bin, Sun Wu (aka, Sun Tzu) , Chandragupta Maurya, and/or Ashoka would break up the Mediterranean monopoly of the current list. In particular, Qin Shi Huang and Chandragupta Maurya, as actual empire builders, should be on the list ahead of talented wannabes like Mithradates.

[Marshal Murat]

Alright then. He will be added next round.