Japan closer to changing constitution

[Odin]

Japan closer to changing constitution (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070514/ap_on_re_as/japan_constitution;_ylt=AixAGZ.5T0wfdZQyApZ6cGJvaA8F)By CHISAKI WATANABE, Associated Press Writer
Mon May 14, 3:55 AM ET

The upper house of Japan's parliament on Monday passed guidelines for amending the nation's pacifist constitution, potentially boosting the country's military presence on the world stage and handing nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe a political victory.

Abe, who is strengthening military cooperation with the United States and requiring schools to teach patriotism, has campaigned to loosen the constitution's limits on military action.

The constitution bans the use of military force as a means of settling international disputes, and special legislation is needed for Japanese soldiers to participate in peacekeeping and other missions abroad.

If amendments are eventually passed, they would be the first changes made to the 1947 constitution, drafted by U.S. occupation officials in the aftermath of World War II.

The legislation was easily passed in parliament's upper house, where the ruling bloc has a commanding majority. The measure was approved last month by the Lower House.

But the bill drew strong criticism from opposition lawmakers who said the legislation is flawed and aims to boost Abe's image before key elections in July.

Many Japanese credit the charter's pacifist clause with keeping the country out of war since 1945, preventing a resurgence of wartime militarism and allowing Japan to focus on becoming wealthy.

Abe and his supporters, however, argue that Japan needs to take more responsibility in maintaining global peace and security. The country dispatched troops on a humanitarian mission to Iraq in 2004-06, the first time since World War II that Japanese soldiers have entered a combat zone.

According to a poll released Monday, 62 percent of Japanese surveyed said they think the government interpretation of the constitution barring Japan from coming to the defense of an ally who is under attack should remain intact.

The figure was up 7.4 percentage points from a similar poll in April, Kyodo News agency reported. Kyodo interviewed 1,054 voters nationwide by telephone during the weekend. No margin of error was given.

The guiding legislation passed Monday will set up panels that would review drafts of proposed amendments in both the lower and upper houses, once the next session of parliament convenes midyear. The legislation also calls for discussing lowering the voting age to 18 from 20 years.

No parliamentary vote on revising the constitution can be held within the next three years, according to the legislation.

Once the three-year public consultation period is up, lawmakers would vote on the proposed amendments and at least two-thirds of the lawmakers in both houses would have to approve the changes.

The amendments would then need the approval of at least half the voters in a national referendum to be implemented.

Tokyo has been airlifting U.N. and coalition personnel and supplies into Baghdad and other Iraqi cities from nearby Kuwait since early last year as part of efforts to support Iraq's reconstruction.

The mission is set to end July 31, and a parliamentary committed debated on Monday a proposed two-year extension. If passed in committee, the measure was expected to go before the full Lower House, the more powerful of parliament's two chambers, on Tuesday.

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I Continue to find the Asian theatre very intresting. I have posted prior threads on the korea's, China and japan and to be blunt they havent nearly gotten as much attention as the middle east threads.

while I concede the middleeast is in the fore, the increasing signs from Asia suggest competition, militarization, and increased power (on all fronts). Eventually the world will refocus on this region of the world, I include India in it as well.

Do others share my view on the importance of the emerging trends in asia? An adjusted constitution in Japan isnt front page, but its hardly minimal either.

[The Wizard]

Realize that it'll take another three years before this change in law can actually even be implemented; that's still before the entire row that'll ensue over a referendum and Diet vote surrounding the alteration of article 9 of the Japanese constitution.

It's not exactly urgent, therefore. Still, I agree with you that it's interesting. The return of the Imperial Japanese Navy? A counterweight to China? Perhaps. But that depends on a whole lot more than just Japan renouncing its highly peaceful intentions.

[Odin]

Realize that it'll take another three years before this change in law can actually even be implemented; that's still before the entire row that'll ensue over a referendum and Diet vote surrounding the alteration of article 9 of the Japanese constitution.

It's not exactly urgent, therefore. Still, I agree with you that it's interesting. The return of the Imperial Japanese Navy? A counterweight to China? Perhaps. But that depends on a whole lot more than just Japan renouncing its highly peaceful intentions.

I concede it isnt urgent, but we all know the economic power of china is rising, as well as india. So is thier influence and military spending. We also have Korea lumped in there, both korea's have unique issues, one being a new member of the nuclear club, the other being one of the largest economies in the world.

The remilitarization of Japan is notable because its happening at a time when thier traditional advosaries are growing in power as well. Perhaps have already greatly surpased the Japanese in its immediate capability, but what was striking to me in this article is the nationalist movement in Japan.

I personally believe we are getting a glimpse at the next big issue (say 10 years?)

[The Wizard]

Ah, if you include the rivalry of India and China in the picture, then we're talking. The United States has grown far too large to ever be forced back into the status of second tier power, but if the EU doesn't get its game into gear any time soon and it keeps going the way it is, and the Middle East's (and Africa's) continuing troubles don't see a radical change for the better soon, then yes, in a couple decades the global epicenter of power (and concern) will most definitely have moved a hell of a lot closer to the Pacific, from the Atlantic.

[Mikeus Caesar]

After the thorough pwning they got in WW2, i doubt that threatening the freedom of Asia and America is high on their list of things to do with a powerful armed forces.

[Odin]

After the thorough pwning they got in WW2, i doubt that threatening the freedom of Asia and America is high on their list of things to do with a powerful armed forces.

No I dont suspect that the changes in Japan are for conquest, however I do believe the changes in Japan are a result of the new regional order, more precisely the future influence the region will have.

Assuming China and India keep humming along, Japan would be a distant 3rd in the major catagories (military, economic power, political influence). Thats why I think this region and its subtle national political changes bare watching. On top of that there is a long history of mistrust and conquest, and we are talking about the majority of the worlds population centers to boot.

Yes the article was based on Japan, but my premise is the region as a whole, I am keeping an eye on it.

[Pindar]

The upper house of Japan's parliament on Monday passed guidelines for amending the nation's pacifist constitution, potentially boosting the country's military presence on the world stage and handing nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe a political victory.

Good.

[Vladimir]

Good.

Agreed. We want nations with western/liberal democratic values to influence world events. Don't think that just because Japan isn’t carrying a big stick that the rest of the region won’t.

[HoreTore]

They'll need a good army to protect against the whales.

[Odin]

They'll need a good army to protect against the whales.

Really HoreTore must you be so dramatic? :laugh4:

[Mikeus Caesar]

They'll need a good army to protect against the whales.

After what they've done in the name of scientific research, that wouldn't come as a surprise.

Maybe this is why i've heard they want the bomb? Those damn whales are plotting!

EDIT: Image shall be back. Damn you tripod.

[Spino]

No surprise here. Yet another step toward Japan's re-emergence as an 'active' world power. I'm actually shocked it has taken Japan this long to seriously consider kicking those constitutional restrictions to the curb.

Kim Jong Il's antics combined with China's saber rattling and dramatic increase in defense spending over the last few decades has essentially forced the world's second largest economy to re-examine its foreign policy. The traditional alliances and partnerships that held fast during the Cold War are now subject to change and interpretation. China has become a major trade partner with the US and is a quiet benefactor/reluctant ally of North Korea. US policy making in the post-Cold War era is remarkedly inconsistent and complicated by our large commitment in Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea that Japan can effectively ally with or rely upon South Korea, a nation that still harbors deep resentment to Japan for past transgressions, is remote. With all these variables at work Japan has finally come to the realization it cannot always count on the friendly neighborhood red, white and blue 800lb gorilla to throw its weight around on its behalf.

Not that Japan's military is currently anemic or unprepared. To use an example the JMSDF currently fields a sizeable blue water navy second only to the USN in terms of numbers and effectiveness.

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/asiapac/japan.htm

[HoreTore]

After what they've done in the name of scientific research, that wouldn't come as a surprise.

Maybe this is why i've heard they want the bomb? Those damn whales are plotting!

EDIT: Image shall be back. Damn you tripod.

Don't come crying to me when the United Whale Resistance Army takes over the world, together with the japanese we're about the only ones who realises this threat. You can play blind all you want, it wont save you when the Whalecalypse comes.

[Papewaio]

I wonder what the new proposed nationalistic curriculum for schools in Japan is?

I wonder if it goes into what happened in China and Korea in the 1930's while the last bout of jingoistic nationalism was all the rage.

Didn't Japan go quickly from a democracy to a rather ruthless colonial power... all based on national security needs?

I'm pretty sure that Germany won't ever become a facist dictatorship again given their reverence for teaching about the past. However Japan has shown less of an ability to teach history... and those who don't learn are prone to repeat... not likely but more likely then Germany.

[sapi]

As long as Japan is sensible enough not to have colonial ambitions again, this can only be a good thing.

I don't like the thought of us having to fight to keep them out again, however remote that possibility might be.

I guess the collective memory of Japanese POW atrocities is too strong to dismiss out of hand for me, because I'd normally be strongly for something like this...

[Odin]

I wonder what the new proposed nationalistic curriculum for schools in Japan is?

I think you and a few billion people in china/asia are wondering the same thing.

[Odin]

As long as Japan is sensible enough not to have colonial ambitions again, this can only be a good thing.

I don't like the thought of us having to fight to keep them out again, however remote that possibility might be.

I guess the collective memory of Japanese POW atrocities is too strong to dismiss out of hand for me, because I'd normally be strongly for something like this...

I dont think this move is stoke colonial ambition again, I think its in response to the real build up of China. Its pretty well established that China is on its way to becoming the next big kid on the bloc. Really cant blame Japan for wanting to increase its options militarily if for no other reason then to counter balance the rise of china.

The impact of all this I suspect is 20 years down the road

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Beat to the punch on their curriculum. Wasn't there something like the average Japanese school kid believes we (the US) started WW2? That both worries and angers me.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Didn't Japan go quickly from a democracy to a rather ruthless colonial power... all based on national security needs?


Everyone knows that Japan went evil and colonialistic because they killed their last samurai, who was tragically an American Civil War soldier.

Don't you watch any historical films?

[lars573]

Beat to the punch on their curriculum. Wasn't there something like the average Japanese school kid believes we (the US) started WW2? That both worries and angers me.
Find data about what the average Yank school kid nows about your nations history and you might get the same reaction.

[JR-]

Japans constitutional changes are interesting, especially as they are attempting to pull the same stunt employed by the royal navy in the seventies:

Treasury to RN: "you can't have aircraft carriers, the nation cannot afford them."
RN to Treasury: "ok, what we would really like is some through-deck-cruisers for ASW operations in support of our NATO obligations."
Treasury to RN: "that sounds very reasonable, your wish is granted."
* fast-forward a couple of years to witness Harrier Jump Jets flying CAP over HMS Illustrious, HMS Hermes & HMS Ark Royal, all of which bear a striking resemblance to an aircraft carrier.*

Japanese Diet to PM: "you can't have aircraft carriers, they are offensive weapons and forbidden by the constitution."
Japanese PM to Diet: "ok, what we would really like are some helicopter destroyers so we can get involved with a bit of disaster-relief and the like."
Japanese Diet to PM: "alright, how big will they be?"
Japanese PM to Diet: "oh, only 13,500 tonnes light, and about 20,000 fully loaded".
Japanese Diet to PM: "that sounds very reasonable, your wish is granted."
* fast forward a couple of years to witness Joint Strike Fighters flying CAP over IMJ Yamamoto, IMJ Kamikazi & IMJ Rose bLossom, all of which bear a striking resemblance to an aircraft carrier.*

[doc_bean]

I wonder when they're going to field those giant mecha's we all *know* they've been developping over the last 50 years.

[Mikeus Caesar]

I wonder when they're going to field those giant mecha's we all *know* they've been developping over the last 50 years.

http://www.amazingben.com/robots-mechagodzilla.jpg

You can't say it won't happen.

[Bijo]

http://www.amazingben.com/robots-mechagodzilla.jpg

You can't say it won't happen.
It won't happen.

There, I said it! :saint:

[ShadeHonestus]

This is their first step in their double top secret plan to take over Tibet and create an oil pipeline to china with the contracts being offered to Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter.

Coming soon to our resident tin hatters :dizzy2: .

[Ja'chyra]

I say it's a good move for Japan and not necessarily a bad move for everyone else either.

It's way past time that new generations stopped paying for what their forefathers done and started playing on a level playing field with the rest of the world. From a more selfish point of view, having another couterpoint to the rising might of China can't be a bad thing either as long as they don't start beating on each other.


United States has grown far too large to ever be forced back into the status of second tier power

I hope you're only talking about the near future, if you're talking about forever then this smacks of arrogance and not learning from history.

[sapi]

United States has grown far too large to ever be forced back into the status of second tier powerI doubt the US will survive as a power in my lifetime, but that's another debate entirely

[Odin]

I doubt the US will survive as a power in my lifetime, but that's another debate entirely

yes it is but the fact remains that there are 5735 (approx) reasons the U.S. will be a power in your life time and most likely into the moderate future. Yep nuclear weapons, its hard to marginalize a country that has this many active, and has used them in combat.

I think what is likely is the U.S. "super power" status will diminish rapidly over the next 20 years due to the rise of other powers.

Perhaps Japan? Wonder how long it will be before they amend thier constitution to allow for "tactical" nukes?

[sapi]

You're right, of course.

I should have said "superpower"

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't know, we have nukes and we've been pretty marginalised.

[Blodrast]

Same goes for India and Pakistan. They both have nukes, but neither of them has a say, or any significant influence, in the world affairs.

[Incongruous]

I'm going with the currywurry idea, we need to send Tom over there to make them realise what they will be losing should they unleash Super Saiyans on us.
Hans zimmer would also be a good adition.