how to change "charge" in missle cavarly?

[Iasonis]

How can you change the charge effectiveness in cavarly that is primarily skirmish or missle? The heavy parthian archers that also have lances are one example of a unit that should at least have an impact at all. The charge for these units is useless. I edited the charge factor from primary and the secondary attack charge factor raising the charge bonus to 63 but if the unit is missle designated or skirmish it wont kill even 1, while if a charge is 63 for a regular unit itll kill about 15-20. any way to get this more realistic?

[Pharnakes]

They've always worked fine for me.

Maybe what you're talking about is missle cavalry armed with knives/swords for secondary... Naturaly they don't get such a large charge bonus.

[Watchman]

You sure youre not confusing the charge value of the missile weapon here ? It of course has zero effect on the secondary weapon...

[Grey_Fox]

There is a correlation between the armour stat of the unit as well as it's charge bonus from what I've gathered.

But then again I've been very wrong before, modding isn't my forte.

[Iasonis]

ok i tested it out using the "Daha Uazdaettae" unit. Im positive theres no extra charge bonus. when charging they pull their lances out and charge home...for 0 bonus, ie its as if they walked into each other not charged. If i switch the stat_pri stats and stat_sec the charge bonus goes into effect when they charge home, but you lose the ability to shoot. Test it out, edit the charge bonus to 400 or whatever and thier armor too, it has 0 effect on the charge, unless u switch the primary and 2ndary.

[Pharnakes]

MIssiles have to be primary, stange problem you've got though, I've never had anything like it.

Try ALt right clicking once and let them walk towards the enemy, then charge by themselve when they get close enough, that gives you the most powerful charge.

[Iasonis]

HEY i fixed it :) For some reason you need to have a number in the primary attack other than 0, then the charge bonus comes into effect, try it out. i put 20 for both primary and 2ndary and they now have thier bonus correctly. This is going to take awhile to charge every single missle unit but itll be worth it for the realism

[Pharnakes]

Wonder why its just you...

[Iasonis]

test it out for yourself. take the unit i said above and charge it into roman vigils, watch closer the damage you do, itll be equal to just hand to hand combat. Now edit the primary and secondary stats and place the number for charge bonus 40 or whatever it was in the primary charge as well. Now try again and charge the vigiles, youll see that when you charge home your initial impact will cause more damage(ie. the charge bonus). Its probobly that you werent looking closely enough to notice the charge bonus, if you dont use saka or the like you would probobly never notice

[Foot]

ok i tested it out using the "Daha Uazdaettae" unit. Im positive theres no extra charge bonus. when charging they pull their lances out and charge home...for 0 bonus, ie its as if they walked into each other not charged. If i switch the stat_pri stats and stat_sec the charge bonus goes into effect when they charge home, but you lose the ability to shoot. Test it out, edit the charge bonus to 400 or whatever and thier armor too, it has 0 effect on the charge, unless u switch the primary and 2ndary.

Are you sure they charged full pelt. You have to line them up so that they are well-ordered and there is enough space between them and the enemy. They may not be able to do this because they tend to fire before attacking. Have you tried turning off the skirmishing ability.

Foot

[Iasonis]

yes ive done that, if you set the charge bonus the same for your primary and secondary youll be good, ive changed all my units, at least my scale armored missle cav can charge the flanks now and actually make an impact :)

[Ludens]

There is a correlation between the armour stat of the unit as well as it's charge bonus from what I've gathered.
This was a bug in 1.2. It has been fixed in R:TW 1.3/BI.

[Grey_Fox]

Ah cool, I switched off from RTW about that time and just recently got back into it for EB.

[Iasonis]

Can someone retest my experiment please and tell me if they get the same result. For me the result is missle cavarly(example parthian armored horse archers) who have a high charge, do NO extra charge damage.
I set it up like this.
Paylava vs Rome
i used the map western gaul

rome i used 1 unit of vigiles for all tests
paylava used 1 unit of at a time of cavalry

Paylava used for each test(ran each 5 times for an average)
1) azad azavaran(parthian noble cataphracts) 4 att 27 def 41 charge
2) zradha shivitir(parthian armoured horse archers) 4 att 26 def 38 charge


1)i ran the one unit of each vs the vigiles and stopped it after the initial charge to see the damage done to the vigiles. the cataphracts initially inflicted 14 kills on average for the initial impact. It was from 10 to 16 kills averaging 14. they charge with lances.
2)The horse archers i disabled fire at will and skirmish. I charged them into the vigiles...when they got close it stated they were "charging". They proceeded to pull out thier lances and pointed them to the vigiles and drove them home...for 0 kills on impact or maybe 1 kill. It it hard to tell because the units will inflict kills on each other from just the basic fighting.

result- something is wrong with the charge factor on missle cavalry.

[Pharnakes]

I seem to vagely remeber some one complaining about this a whil back, and he found a solution for it, although most people have never had a problem in the first place. This is making me suspect that you are somehow suffering form some strange corupted install or something...


BTW, I assume you did use single right click to attack?


EDIt:What? it's you all along:stupido2: Why this sudden bump, though?


I will now attempt to pretend to myself that this never happened...

[Iasonis]

when someone gets a chance to actually reproduce the test i did please post what results you get.

ps please do not post anything else besides results, Nothing else will be helpful for me thank you
and to answer your question i bumped this because i there is a problem and i want to help fix it. The problem is here, scroll down
type eastern missile cavalry zradha shivatir
dictionary eastern_missile_cavalry_zradha_shivatir ; Zradha Shivatir
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier steppe_cavalry_zradhashivatir_zrahakirnetadzik, 25, 0, 1
mount hellenistic kataphraktoi horse
mount_effect camel -1, chariot +3
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, cantabrian_circle
formation 3, 4, 6, 6, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 0, arrow, 195.5, 40, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1*******-->the zero here on this line should be changed to 38. when they charge they use this number regardless
stat_pri_attr no ---------------------------------------------------------------- if they are missle units or whatever. They dont use the stat_sec for charging(i think it is only after
stat_sec 4, 38, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 200 ,0.4---------------they run out of ammo that they use this number). This is the problem that should be fixed.
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 18, 8, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -4, -3
stat_mental 13, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 3578, 895, 80, 100, 3578
ownership parthia

[Iasonis]

Can someone retest my experiment please and tell me if they get the same result. For me the result is missle cavarly(example parthian armored horse archers) who have a high charge, do NO extra charge damage.
I set it up like this.
Paylava vs Rome
i used the map western gaul

rome i used 1 unit of vigiles for all tests
paylava used 1 unit of at a time of cavalry

Paylava used for each test(ran each 5 times for an average)
1) azad azavaran(parthian noble cataphracts) 4 att 27 def 41 charge
2) zradha shivitir(parthian armoured horse archers) 4 att 26 def 38 charge


1)i ran the one unit of each vs the vigiles and stopped it after the initial charge to see the damage done to the vigiles. the cataphracts initially inflicted 14 kills on average for the initial impact. It was from 10 to 16 kills averaging 14. they charge with lances.
2)The horse archers i disabled fire at will and skirmish. I charged them into the vigiles...when they got close it stated they were "charging". They proceeded to pull out thier lances and pointed them to the vigiles and drove them home...for 0 kills on impact or maybe 1 kill. It it hard to tell because the units will inflict kills on each other from just the basic fighting.

result- something is wrong with the charge factor on missle cavalry.



This is the test, if someone can reproduce this for me PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE , :) thank you