View Full Version : Observation - Silly Mongol & Timurid facemasks anyone ?
Hi All !
has anyone noticed how NOT scary and feeble some of the Mongols & Timurids look with their WAR masks ? For example:
Image courtesy of Inquisitor (.com)
http://www.km011a0004.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ing5.jpg
LOL ? :laugh4:
Great detail but could have been a bit " harder".
So emm which skinners are looking for a job ? *hint hint*
Agent Smith
05-18-2007, 05:26
Just out of curiosity, did the Mongols actually wear war masks like that? The Russian medieval troops used masks like that called a litchina, but I don't know much about the Mongolians...
Tambarskjelve
05-18-2007, 06:14
At least the mask perfectly captures the expression I suppose one would have having a sword run through your chest. Sort of "Oh noes!"
But I agree, the war masks are anything but warlike. But usually I tremble with fear facing two stacks of Mongols anyway, rather than laugh at their silly masks.
IrishArmenian
05-18-2007, 06:21
I think they're fine for a few reasons: I doubt most players are normally that close to the action (my computer just cannot run any good graphics settings, so this is not an issue with me), I don't think the Mongols used them but I know the Qipchaks and Russians did, finally--I think we all underestimate the scariness of a cruel and harsh enemy from an unknown land who has laid waste to some of the most powerful Kingdoms of the time. So, no. I see now problem.
Furious Mental
05-18-2007, 07:07
Apparently they did. There is one in the Kremlin museum, but I don't know if they wore that sort of thing in battle. Not saying they didn't either.
phonicsmonkey
05-18-2007, 07:22
I would be scared of them even if they were dressed like clowns...in fact maybe more so
LMFAO ! Excellent replies.
ROFL ! Look at the guy on the bottom right of the image.... LOL !!!
He's just standing there trying to get his photo taken while his mate's gettng killed. AHHAHAHHA
Hello there noble guildmembers, and greetings from Finland
I think helmets with (more or less) scary masks were widely used in Asia. Partly to protect the face, partly to intimidate the opponent. Even the samurai used helmets with masks? Anyway, I found a pic of a mask not unlike the mask in Sinan's pic:
iron and steel WAR mask made in the late 15th century, possibly in Akkoyunlu, a state founded by Turkoman tribes in 1350 and stretching from the Caspian Sea to modern-day Syria during its 15th-century heyday
http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2003/02-07/photos/ps5mask.jpg
- Guru
Hello Guru & WELCOME ABOARD !
Thanks. That's a good find. Would you mind sharing the source site ? There's probably some more we can read there. At the moment it looks like it's reasonable to use that kind of mask in the game. It looks a lot better in your image than the screenshot anyway ! LOL !
I should mention that I consider this a historically inspired game, leaning towards fantasy. In this semi-fantasy game I'd like to see meaner face masks for the Mongols in particular.
Salute !
The photo can be found here (http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2003/02-07/khalili.htm).
Apparently the site seems to provide very little information concerning war masks. I couldn't find more pictures of war masks of that kind... Its seems they are quite rare on the net, or maybe I just don't know where/how to look.
- Guru
Zenicetus
05-18-2007, 09:30
Never looked at them that close... now I'm getting Dr. Who flashbacks...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cyberman2006.jpg
What scares me more than those masks is that thing on the left, behind all those heads, which looks like the black shaddow of death or so and I seriously have no idea what else it could be.:help:
I'd find an entire army of men wearing telly-tubby, spanish moustachiou'd baby-masks to perhaps be the frightening thing imaginable.
The photo can be found here (http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2003/02-07/khalili.htm).
Apparently the site seems to provide very little information concerning war masks. I couldn't find more pictures of war masks of that kind... Its seems they are quite rare on the net, or maybe I just don't know where/how to look.
- Guru
Thanks. Very interesting link. Must be out there. If I see anything I'll give you a shout. In fact the obvious first step would be to email Mr. Khallil, I guess he would have more sources.
Never looked at them that close... now I'm getting Dr. Who flashbacks...
ROFL !
What scares me more than those masks is that thing on the left, behind all those heads, which looks like the black shaddow of death or so and I seriously have no idea what else it could be
LOL ! You're joking right ?
Well I'm not sure if you're joking or not but in case you are'nt it's a (dead) Panziert Oliphant Artillerie Abteilung.
Durallan
05-18-2007, 16:14
I'd find an entire army of men wearing telly-tubby, spanish moustachiou'd baby-masks to perhaps be the frightening thing imaginable.
Or an army of bloodied cleaver wielding 4 year old girls screaming for their mummy.
:laugh4:
I found a drawing of Persian war masks (google image search):
http://bhs.broo.k12.wv.us/BHS/Art/98/PersianM.jpg
Source Link. (http://bhs.broo.k12.wv.us/BHS/Art/98/ArtDraw%2098.htm) Note, this is an artist's concept not an actual photo. Talented.
Kobal2fr
05-18-2007, 16:51
Those are hardly scary, especially compared to the half-masks worn by the Japanese.
Then again, the "scary" effect could very well be the stillness, emotionlessness of the face while it's owner is hacking you to pieces, without any apparent anger, or fear... I remember reading something about "battle silence" (but was probably in a fantasy context, I really don't remember), meaning a unit training to fight and die without making a single sound, like robots. Isn't that a LOT scarier than any battlecry ?
BTW, did the mask actually protect against hits, or were they just for show ?
LOL ! You're joking right ?
Well I'm not sure if you're joking or not but in case you are'nt it's a (dead) Panziert Oliphant Artillerie Abteilung.
I really had no idea, didn't think of elephants and it still looks pretty weird to me, like a mess of textures with a few clipping errors. Then again I haven't faced elephants that often yet and neither did I have such a camera perspective on them.
I do like the upgraded mongol and timurid armours though, the facemasks are ok if you don't zoom in too far.
In reality I find most facemasks rather silly and any armour that has a face painted on it is just ugly IMO.
Whether it's scary or not I can only decide once someone wearing it tries to kill me but depending on the circumstances I won't even have the time to think about it.:sweatdrop:
I don't know if they offered protection, I'd guess they did. I like the look, but it can be tweaked to be more impressive. I guess I'll have to check out a skinning tutorial eventually.
The textures are distorted on the left side. The artist has changed color balance, contrast/brightness and selective color. It seems he did clip something out of the image at that spot, or it could just be that the enhanced brightness desaturated and lit the area extensively and created a "burst" in between the hills, which killed part of that texture.
BTW, did the mask actually protect against hits, or were they just for show ?
As they were made of iron or steel, those masks certainly provided some protection. I read somewhere that even some European generals used helmets with masks, as a sign of their high rank or position. It seems that war masks were quite popular around the world.
If you people happen to run into pictures of war masks, please share them here.
I find the russian war masks particularly awesome. :viking:
PS. Those masks were not painted. different shapes were used to create the outlook.
Will do.
Well it says "drawings" on the source page (whatever that means).
Guru are you a GFX designer ? If you are and looking for fun stuff to do I can think of something.
Me a GFX designer? :dizzy2: I don't even know what that is. Using computer for something else than playing is something I haven't managed to learn.
But if you need a carpenter or a (novice) smith or a painter or a pencil artist... That's a different story. :beam:
:beam: HAHA ! OK will keep it in mind.
Agent Smith
05-18-2007, 19:10
If you people happen to run into pictures of war masks, please share them here.
I find the russian war masks particularly awesome. :viking:
Well, you're in luck my friend!
I found this picture, which looks older, of Russian "reenactors" from the Alexander Nevsky society. I posted it in another thread earlier. The one one the left is wearing a litchina, or "war mask," while the one on the right is wearing the traditional prilibits which was often used.
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/medievalarmor/var3.jpg
There is an entire websited dedicated to Russian arms and armor if you'd like to see it.
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/medievalarmor/parti.htm
Good link. Bookmarked !
Actually now that I think about it a bit more it actually looks good, specially when you compare with the pictures. I guess I'm brainwashed with 13th century propaganda about the Steppe people.... NOT !
Well, you're in luck my friend!
----
There is an entire websited dedicated to Russian arms and armor if you'd like to see it.
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/medievalarmor/parti.htm
Thank ye kindly, good sir! What an interesting site! I'll have to explore it later when I have some spare time...
Regards, Guru
I find those mask creepy as hell. No matter what's the expression on them.
Agent Smith
05-18-2007, 20:31
Now, to link this thread to Rome: Total War! Sort of...
My favorite war mask...Tigris of Gaul:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/files/gladiator_mask.jpg
Yeah, the Gladiator... Notice that the mask is crying? Hahhaha!
Resembles the "litchina" if you as me.
Does anyone not think that the many of the mongols' normal faces seem stretched over the head? As if it is not their own face but someone elses face fitted to their head. It looks terrible. The developers should have just used the Russian Kazak unit faces for the mongols if you ask me.
And I agree, war masks are very cool. I love units with war masks whether or not the entire unit having them is much realistic... My love of war masks spawned from the several Japanese half-face covering war masks or mempo.
A few good mempo examples:
http://www.mukashiya.co.jp/mukashiya/AllScansSwords/8MempoOnSale.jpg
Tschüß!
Erich
Brilliant. Yes the Mongols and Timurids need a "facelift".
Now, to link this thread to Rome: Total War! Sort of...
My favorite war mask...Tigris of Gaul:
[picture]
Here're some real Roman cavalry face masks :yes:
Roman cavalry face mask, found near Nijmegen (http://www.romanarmy.net/images/Pages/Military/image008.jpg)
Another one, also found near Nijmegen (http://www.romanarmy.net/images/Pages/Military/image011.jpg)
Found in Bulgaria (http://www.romanarmy.net/images/Pages/Military/image015.jpg)
Then again, the "scary" effect could very well be the stillness, emotionlessness of the face while it's owner is hacking you to pieces, without any apparent anger, or fear... I remember reading something about "battle silence" (but was probably in a fantasy context, I really don't remember), meaning a unit training to fight and die without making a single sound, like robots. Isn't that a LOT scarier than any battlecry ?
Ah yes, the High Elf Phoenix Guard from Games Workshop. They take an oath of silence and fight in silence. Too expensive to field in large numbers (unlike say, skeletons), so you can't really maximise on that special ability. I prefer Swordmasters for sheer killing power.
https://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4219/bscap0008qs6.jpg
https://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4219/bscap0008qs6.jpg
A good example of why the still, plain looking faces are scarier. This angry mask is ridiculous, not creepy or scary.
Well, I would be quite scared if somebody with a mask like that wanted to cut my throat. Especially if I was unarmed and he had a full stack of mongols with him. ~:shock:
Well, I would be quite scared if somebody with a mask like that wanted to cut my throat. Especially if I was unarmed and he had a full stack of mongols with him. ~:shock:
I eat mongols for breakfast. But then I again I also eat coal and **** diamonds. So I suppose I am not one to talk.
Tschüß!
Erich
That's a good image for a sig ! saved !
It's looks like pure fantasy though.
Anyway...
THISSSHHHH ISSSSHHHH SSSSHHHPPPAAATAAAHHH !
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/d3stro11/quizdineqz0.jpg
http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/6/6f/300sbarro.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/43pvvyf.jpg
http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/0e/300_zinadine.gif
http://ranz0r.de/SPARTA/60.jpg
LOL ?
Agent Smith
05-21-2007, 17:11
That's a good image for a sig ! saved !
It's looks like pure fantasy though.
Anyway...
THISSSHHHH ISSSSHHHH SSSSHHHPPPAAATAAAHHH !
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/d3stro11/quizdineqz0.jpg
http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/6/6f/300sbarro.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/43pvvyf.jpg
http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/0e/300_zinadine.gif
http://ranz0r.de/SPARTA/60.jpg
LOL ?
https://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/agentsmith952/jengaaaavp1.gif
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