Imperial Diet III

[Stig]

Krakow has not been taken, and mostlikely will not be taken for some time. The Franconian Household Army is far too busy for that. There's another big army at the gates.

I suggest the Swabians go more onto the defence and look at the Danes as well. Eastern Franconia depends more on the Swabians than on the Franconian forces.

[FactionHeir]

Considering veteran reinforcements from Staufen have almost arrived in Franconia, I would believe that you should have ample men to fight any threat arising in the east. As for the Danes, Prince Jobst stands outside the gates of Antwerp ready to defeat any French or Danish force that might threaten the empire and to defend the English if they are attacked.

As to suggesting what Swabia does, I would like to ask you to take this up with Duke Scherer who is responsible for Swabian matters. I am serving the empire's best interests in defending our borders, making the homeland and outremer safe and boosting our technology and economy.

[Stig]

And you only happen to be Swabian yourself

[FactionHeir]

I may be Swabian, but my upbringing has taught me that the empire's interests come before an individual house' interest. It is only by being united that we stand strong as the holy roman empire.
Regardless, again it is not my place to discuss Swabian plans with you and if you wish to know more, contact my Duke.

[gibsonsg91921]

Instead of Swabia attacking the God-fearing Catholics and diminishing our Papal standing which is so important in this Reich, I suggest they expand towards the excommunicated Danes.

[FactionHeir]

Again, bring it up with the Duke of Swabia, not with me. If you wish Franconia to expand towards the Danes, have your Duke speak with me.

[Stig]

Franconia is too busy with the Eastern Barbarians.

[Dutch_guy]

Günther von Kastillien's spokesman enters

As Ansehelm stated, we are too busy in the east. The Garrison in Hamburg will have to deter the Danes from attacking, and we should not instigate anything on our - relatively weak - northern frontier. Franconia will push eastwards, not northwards.

I do propose we leave our military discussions for our own assembly, as not to bother this body with an inter housal discussion...

:balloon2:

[AussieGiant]

Gentlemen!!

I believe the issue of Lord Lothar is finished. He been knighted by his father.

I would like you all to know that if that had not happen then I would have personally knight him myself.

His actions in the battle at Budapest have been confirmed to me in person by the entire Austrian court and at least three witnesses who were at the battle in person.

I am shocked that this process dragged on for as long as it did. Myself and the entire House of Austria are of like mind on this topic!!

As for Durazzo, then this is equally a closed topic.

I WAS THERE personally and therefore I am entirely in a position to decide what is to be done with the province. I'd also like to point out that I was also there when Ehrhart was killed and I will not have anyone cast doubt on his sacrifice and how important it was to the House of Austria or this Reich.

With that said, it seems the last of the "Old Guard" have nearly departed from us. The Emperor is the only one remaining from that era.

King Otto was as fine a member of this Empire as can be imagine. His lose is a colossal blow to this nation and he shall be missed dearly.

[Stuperman]

That Blasted pope, prevents us from dealing proper justice to the Milanese, although it might be for the best as it looks like we are threatened in the north by the french.

Do I need to raise the BHA to deal with them, or do the swabians have something in mind, hehe?

[Kagemusha]

Message From Jonas Von Mahren.


The Bloody French are blocking my way to Franconia.If the Reich wills it i will kill them all if i get an army from somewhere. Altough i do suspect they are moving west.I will leave it to the Kaiser,Dukes and Chancellor to decide their fate.What i can say is that there is no mercy coming from me if i have to deal with them.

Jonas

[Stig]

Message from Ansehelm


Meine Herren,

Oh happy days, those stupid Russians can't get their horses onto the walls. And I'm very happy.

About the French I suggest that Count von Mahren picks up the gathered army for him in Prague and that he shadows it. The Swabians will place an ambush somewhere on the road of the French army ... which is mostlikely heading for Paris. And it will be quickly over.
Will the French army miss the ambush Count of Mahren can finish them.

Ansehelm von Kastilien
Count of Thorn
Heir to Franconia
Currently on the walls laughing at some Russians

[gibsonsg91921]

I am divided on the matter. For one, killing this French army will re-cripple the military operations of France.

However, we will lose the ever-important *spits* "Papal blessings," and not be able to destroy Milan without being excommunicated.

[Stuperman]

They are on are land, How can the pope question our action when it is the french that are in the wrong?

[gibsonsg91921]

Duke Gerhard, as always, you make the wise decision. Unfortunately, the "Pope" may not agree with your sentiments and it will be more difficult to rally support in conquering Milan, if the "Pope" thinks less highly of us.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I have expressed my opinion on this matter to the Bavarians, and I shall express it here.

It is not worth excommunication to deal with these people.

What are the Milanese: two islands? And we are so sanguinary that we cannot wait a short while to take two measly islands? We risk everything if we decide to ignore the order. While some people in this esteemed body do not view the Pope as a force to be listened to (*Conrad makes the sign of the cross*) the peasants do. And rest assured, my friends, they will make themselves heard. If we want tranquility at home then we would be wise to wait.

[econ21]

Kaiser Henry: Conrad Salier speaks the truth. Milan is not a serious threat. She can wait - rushing to crush her is not worth offending our alliance with the Papacy.

Indeed, I am rather surprised the Bavarians wish to return to that accursed island of Corsica. The Milanese can keep it, and its, urm, lovely ladies.

Remember, my Lords, that the defence of Jerusalem requires good standing with the Papacy - so that we may maintain our alliance and military access. These things we lost during the affair with the Danish crusade. Regaining them was not easy - requiring a successful crusade and donating one of our provinces.

We should remember also that the current Pope is but a young man and under him, the Papacy will have a long memory.

Finally, do not forget how Milan was originally driven from Europe - by our deliberate forbearance, leading to the Pope excommunicating them, not us, for aggression. If we are patient once again, history will surely repeat itself.

[econ21]

Henry sits down and then absent mindedly sits up again.

And given the wisdom of Conrad Salier's words, and my complete agreement with them, now is as good a time as any to remind the Diet ... (soto voce) and myself ... that Conrad Salier was appointed by King Otto to be his successor as King of Outremer.

I take this opportunity to congratulate King Salier on his appointment and to wish him a long reign.

[TevashSzat]

I am deeply troubled by the admissions made by the Franconians as of late. I would like to advise everyone that us Swabians have yet to take a city other than Paris in this chancellorship and probably will not for the rest of the term given the large French military presence around Paris due to their citadel of Angers.

As to whether us Swabians were allowed to take Paris, I beleive that it is clearly stated somewhere that each House is allowed to take one province of their choosing as long as it borders the House's territories. I have shown eagerness for more French territory to be taken which may cause debate and dissent, but we are hardly at that point yet seeing as the Swabian House Army is being retrained after the recent battle near Paris.

Be reminded too that I expressed interest in taking Bruges, which is very close to Antwerp a Danish city. Any Franconian attempt to take Antwerp will surely be impeded by French forces from Bruges which means that it is best for Bruges to be neutralized, something that Swabian forces will not find too hard to do.

[gibsonsg91921]

Bless your words, Duke Scherer, for in them lies proof that not all the Swabian house is... indiscretionate.

[TinCow]

Outrageous! The Kaiser himself prefers to let innocent citizens of the Reich suffer and perish rather than to "offend" the Pope? By his own words he states that the defense of Jerusalem is more important than our own homelands! This is a clear example of how the Reich is rotting from the inside.

Any man who gives preference to the security of Outremer over the lands of Franconia, Swabia, Austria, and Bavaria is not worthy of calling himself a Roman. Any man who cares more for a foreign alliance than the welfare of his own people is not worthy of calling himself a Roman.

This is not a matter of risking excommunication from the Church. No Bavarian wishes to bring such harm to our people. This is a simple choice between causing the Pope some small displeasure or allowing misery and suffering for the commoners of Bavaria! The Kaiser so arrogantly says that the Milanese can "wait." Wait? Which Elector here would simply "wait" when his lands were being repeatedly devastated by invading armies, his vassals raped and killed, his merchant ships taken, and his ports blockaded? Any nobleman who would stand aside and "wait" to avoid the displeasure of an ally is not worthy of noble blood.

Kaiser, I fear that in the search for Chivalry you have forgotten what that word means. Chivalry means sacrifice of oneself for the betterment of one's people. Chivalry means doing what is right, even if it is difficult. Chivalry means upholding justice, no matter the cost!

[gibsonsg91921]

Lothar Steffen is right! The Milanese have pestered us long enough. Bavaria is the economic base of the Reich, with the large cities of Milan and Genoa anchoring its finances. If it is threatened in the least, the threat must be destroyed, as the effects will be felt throughout the Empire.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Young Lothar, I fear that you are not seeing the full scope of things.

First of all, I speak under the assumption that we will indeed finish Milan off once the Papal Bull expires.

It remains to be seen whether Milan can put together a significant invasion force in that period of time. The question of whether Milan is even capable of doing all the things that you say is unknown.

However, it is entirely known what will happen should we be excommunicated. It's happened twice before in our history. Rioting. Looting. Unrest. Thousands of deaths. This, my friend, is clear.

So, would you rather pick the scenario whose outcome is unknown but can easily be manipulated or controlled to serve our ends, or the one whose outcome is clear and terrible?

[gibsonsg91921]

Herr Salier, I must testify that the Papal bull received by Chancellor Hans did not threaten excommunication for the Kaiser Henry ever, merely a loss of relations. A man so close to the Catholic Church as yourself knows that the Catholic Church has never been one to refuse a... small persuasion for them to change their mind - thus damaged relations could be repaired.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

One would hope, Lord von Kastilien, that not everyone in the Church follows that same unfortunate line of thinking that you speak of.

As for the bull not threatening excommunication, it does little to sway me. The Pope will still see it as us flouting his authority, and he is young. It could be the start of a slippery slope to excommunication.

[TinCow]

Conrad, you are of course correct that it would be a great disservice to our people to subject them to the cruelty of living under an excommunicated Kaiser. As I said before, none of us in Bavaria wish to cause such a thing. However, Peter von Kastilien is correct. The order we have received from the Pope says nothing about excommunication, merely a loss of standing.

In any case, it is the Kaiser's entire attitude about the matter that disturbs me most. I emphasize again that by his own words the Kaiser has stated that the safety of Jerusalem is of more importance than that of our homelands! We are ruled by a man who cares more for kind words from the Pope than the welfare of his own people.

[FactionHeir]

Jerusalem has considerable importance these years because the pope who resides there is German, just like every one of us here.
If he falls, a new pope will be elected. Considering that none of our cardinals are among the preferati and our enemies field two, it would be wise to keep the pope alive.

[gibsonsg91921]

Relations may be repaired, empires rebuilt, but lives, once lost, are lost forever. The Milanese have plagued us for too long. As stated before, Bavaria is our economic base. If even Genoa alone was captured, or blockaded by a significant military fleet, the entire Reich, even the barren hells in the Levant, would feel the blow. Perhaps the desert sun of Outremer and the draughts of royal wine taken upon your throne have caused you to forget the many injustices Milan has brought upon us. Were the Papal bull for excommunication, I would take the diplomatic route and wait. However, that is not the case, and we must strike now!

[econ21]

Kaiser Henry: Lothar, you accuse the King of the Romans of not being worthy of being called a Roman. You slander me by saying I prefer to let innocent citizens of the Reich suffer and perish. You presume to lecture me on chivalry. And then you have the audacity to accuse me of arrogance.

I remind you that I preside over this body and I will not see the Kaiser's authority diminished by such disrespect. I will retire from the chamber now for the evening. If you wish to be allowed to remain when I return, you will withdraw those remarks and apologise.

[gibsonsg91921]

Kaiser Henry, does not this Imperial Diet serve to allow all nobles, Lothar Steffen, Count of Florence included, to speak their minds and have their beliefs heard before all the Reich? Lothar Steffen is merely serving his duty to the Empire to ensure that all beliefs are heard! If he is removed from this Diet, then you will have to remove me too as I share is founded beliefs.

[FactionHeir]

There is a difference between speaking your beliefs and thoughts and insulting other members, especially our most valued, personally.
I believe that line has been crossed.

[gibsonsg91921]

Chancellor Hans, were you present when Lothar made his argument before this Diet? Whether or not his fiery oratory insulted the good Kaiser, he spoke the truth. Outremer is naught but a papal fief, a dishonor to the Reich! Were the Kingdom of Outremer more than a mere bodyguard for the Pope, but an extension of the Reich proper, it would hold just as much importance. However, I believe certain nobles are too occupied by their religious zeal and servitude to the Papacy to realize there are secular troubles that plague the Reich, that no one man may stop. If God wills that we do not strike at Milan, let him speak! I fear that the Pope is not a reliable proxy and his bull imposing restriction upon attacking Milan has not been decreed for the good of the faith, but rather for personal quarrel with the Reich.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

With all due respect gentlemen, you have insulted both the Kaiser and the Pope in one day, two men more powerful, important, and influential than you shall ever be. This is still a feudal system, and places must be learned.

[gibsonsg91921]

Any offences against the Kaiser I withdraw. I do not take back, however, my stance in agreement with Lothar's beliefs. While I do not mean to insult the Kaiser, I do, however I disagree with his platform regarding Milan, Outremer, and the Pope.

Regarding the Holy See, I take back no insult. The Pope as an establishment is an insult to devout Christians, who do not need a proxy to find the Lord.

[FactionHeir]

Even if we may have our differences with other catholic children, I remind you that we regardless are all God's children and must adhere to His commandments and His highest servant, the pope.
While the papal bull is indeed troubling, there is no question that I shall negotiate with his Holiness to find common ground in this matter, but I doubt that can be achieved with the rampant blasphemy that is present in this very diet, where we, the representatives of our people, convene.
I ask that all of you keep the discussions civil and not resort to personal insults, lest you wish to find yourself banished from the empire.

And lastly, I ask, no, demand, that you apologize to the emperor for your open and unworthy insults and pray a fortnight to repent your blasphemy against our most holy church.

[gibsonsg91921]

Were you not listening, Chancellor Hans? I withdrew insult to the Kaiser! The issue is not whether or not we are all God's children. I deem it not blasphemy to repudiate the Pope. Regardless of whether or not I bow to the false idol, I am a Catholic, devout and pure. I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior, not the Pope.

[OverKnight]

Matthias looks around the Diet chamber with alarm:

Peace! Peace, my fellow Electors. I am sure that my Brother and Peter von Kastilien meant no true disrespect toward the Kaiser. As for the Pope, well, worse things have been said about his predecessors in the Diet. It saddens me that a former Imperial Cardinal would act in such a way against us.

Must we wait until the Milanese have seized an Imperial city before the Diet takes them seriously? We have shown "forbearance" and hesitation before, and all we gained from it was a betrayed peace and. . .

Matthias is interrupted by a coughing fit.

. . .and a curse upon my family.

We have tried leaving them alone, and they attacked us at Bern. We drove them to their Islands, thinking they had learned their lesson, and they raided our coast and lands. We made peace with them, thinking to make them a trading partner, and they declared war on us again! How many times must we allow this Corsairs to strike at us before we respond? It is obvious now that the Sicilians are incapable of even taking one of their Islands. This is something we have to do ourselves!

A lowering of our relations with the Pope is a different animal than excommunication. Our standing can be restored with florins and defending Jerusalem from the Egyptians. If the Diet wishes to offer Sardinia to Sicily, as approved before, so be it. But this Sword of Damocles hanging over our head must be removed.

Others here have spoken out against Outremer, thinking defending it weakens us here, or somehow it makes us more beholden to the Pope. I disagree. In fact, as a show of good faith, once the Milan matter is concluded, I will journey East to offer my service to King Salier. Bavaria does indeed support Outremer, it always has and always shall.

Thank you.

[TinCow]

Blasphemy?! What have I said that is contrary to the teachings of Christ? Is it my desire to defend the innocent and the helpless from violence? I have as much respect for God as any man in the Reich and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. If anyone here is guilty of blasphemy, it is the Kaiser for protecting the Milanese who are known to harbor witches and heretic priests! I have heard lately of a great plague that has broken out in Outremer. I wonder, is it simply due to the Kaiser's failure to provide public sanitation or is it a curse brought upon his new 'Kingdom' for following a man who keeps a Pagan as an adviser?

My Kaiser, you said that I accused the King of the Romans of not being worthy of being called a Roman. That is not so. What I said was that any man who gives preference to the security of Outremer over the homelands of the Reich, and any man who cares more for a foreign alliance than the welfare of his own people, is not worthy of calling himself a Roman. Since you have taken this as a personal insult, I must ask you my Kaiser, which is it that you believe to be descriptive of yourself?

As for diminishing your authority in the Diet, how can that happen if my statements are wrong? If what I say is such obvious 'slander,' unsubstantiated by truth, then surely every Elector will see through the falsehoods my words conceal and ignore them. No, the only way your authority could be diminished was if there was truth to what I say. So tell me, Kaiser, why do you truly believe that my statements undermine your authority?

I said before that a proper nobleman, a truly chivalrous servant of the Reich, will not allow harm to befall his own people, no matter the cost to himself. Were I to apologize for speaking the truth on this matter, I would be betraying my own vassals. I would be betraying the women and children who are killed by Milanese coastal raiders. I would be betraying the Christians souls who are corrupted and cursed by Milanese heretics. I would be betraying Christ himself for abandoning those in need.

No, you will not bribe me with 30 pieces of silver or with 30,000 florins. I will serve the good of the Reich, no matter the cost! There is no need to expel me from the Diet, for I go willingly. Simply being in the presence of one with so little regard for his own vassals makes my skin crawl. You can sit here in your gilded chair and play with words all you want. I will go forth and serve my people as best as I am able. You will be gone from this Earth soon enough and with luck we will then have an Emperor who cares for the Reich more than his own ambitions. God knows it has been too long since we have seen one of those.

*Lothar turns and leaves the Diet.*

[FactionHeir]

Were you not listening, Chancellor Hans? I withdrew insult to the Kaiser! The issue is not whether or not we are all God's children. I deem it not blasphemy to repudiate the Pope. Regardless of whether or not I bow to the false idol, I am a Catholic, devout and pure. I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior, not the Pope.


OOC: Only after I finished typing did your post pop up. As such, consider it to be before yours...

[gibsonsg91921]

Truly these debates are ones that may never be solved. One's passions for religion and a powerless idol cannot be challenged by any man as good man of the Reich would be staunch and stick to his beliefs.

Blasphemy, cries Hans? Devotion, say I!

The Milan and Outremer debates, and secular issues with the Pope, however, are certain to be discussed in the next official Diet session.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst slams his fist on a table, and stands, banging his fist.

Order, order!

Yes this is a place for a debate, but I will not have anything said about lords higher then your rank, remember your place amonsgt the rank.

Sometimes I forget some of you are Catholic. If you think the Pope is not worthy of living on earth, then you are no catholic, he was appointed by majority of others.

Jobst bangs his fist on the table


As for the Kaiser, he is the ruler of this Empire, and trust me, you do not want to bad mouth the Kaiser, or the Pope for that matter.

As it has been said, stop bad mouthing both, or I shall remove you BY FORCE!

Jobst sits

[Stig]

Ansehelm marches into the Diet, looking rather cross

Right, now I've had it.
Lothar go and play somewhere else. I still remember your tricks, and they may be there because you're still in your teen years, but the Diet is no place to play. So take your little Blood Order out of here and go and annoy some Milanese in future.
Same goes for you little brother, go back to Thorn, from the three of us you are by far the best commander.

There are more important matters than the Milanese.
The Hungarians, the Poles and the Russians cause far more problems. Next to that we have the Danes who aren't weak. The French, who even now have a big army in the middle of the Reich. And once we defeat the French we will have the English and the men on the Iberian peninsula to worry about.

[econ21]

Lothar Steffen is barred from this place. He may freely return at any time if he sends me an apology. Or, as he says, I leave this earth. He still retains full voting rights, although presumably he will find it hard to propose an edict if he is still excluded. He may vent his spleen in the House of Bavaria assembly and he may continue to collect skulls on the battlefield, as seems to be his passion.

Peter von Kastilien, everyone is free to speak their views on the future of the Reich. But the Kaiser is your Head of State and keeps order in this place - he cannot be insulted here without consequence. I take no offence at your words which, while agreeing with Lothar on the future of the Reich, did not show contempt for the Kaiser.

[McIwoo]

*Recently arrived from the Bavarian Council*

I hear your points Lord Elector of Franconia, there are powers among our enemies mightier then the Milanese. However, we all agree that northern Italy is of a vital importance to the Empire for it is such an important commercial center. As I have written to this Council in this past, the Empire cannot afford to let down the security and safety of this region. Yet for a few years now our observers have noticed that the pirates and Milanese fleet have been busier then ever. This has had a direct impact on our commercial activities and therefore reducing this all important income.

In the same time our Sicilians a l l i e s have signed a truce with the Milanese, directly inviting the tradesmen who where based in our cities to operate in theirs. This is not only taking tax income and commercial wealth away from us, but also more importantly, brings it to our enemies and so called allies.

For the sake of the Empire and to be able to pay for the very expensive Kingdom of Outremer, I hope you understand the importance to secure this region and eliminate the Milanese threat.

[Stuperman]

Gerhard Steffen walks into the diet, the transcripts of last night's 'discussion' fresh in his mind. An aide is waiting for him at the enterance to the Diet.

'Sir, did you hear the news?'

'What has Lothar done now?'

'The Kaiser has made it Official, he is barred from the diet'

'Wonderful' Gerhard responds flatly, Perhaps I will take up Conrad's offer...

Gerhard Steffen, takes his place and addresses the Diet

While the Swabians complain that they have 'only taken Paris' under Hans' Chancellorship, us Bavarians haven't had the privledge of expanding the Riech since Otto Von Kassel was Chancellor More than 40 years ago.

I personally went to end the Milanese threat under Henery, and suffer to this day becuase the most foul being's on Corsica. They convinced us that peace was the best way foreward, and I left, taking sickness and blight with me. And how do they thank us for making great sacrifice?
By blockadeing our ports and sending raiding parties into our lands.

Well, I for one am Sick and Tired of it, groveling to the pope after we have gifted him Jerusalem, TWICE.

Sitting idly by as our Italian neighbours form closer and closer relationships, waiting for the right moment. Where do you think they will march first? ROME, that's where, and while some members of the Diet would rather put on a bright green uniform than offend the pope, I believe that something must be done about it.

Unless any member of the Diet can find a compelling Legal reason for it not to happen, the Bavarian Household Army WILL march on the Milanese, and it WILL destroy every last one of them.

As for my eldest son; he is his own man, I admire his spirit and his vigor, but his rfirery rhetoric does little to advance his own position. I will talk with him, Conrad has asked for help in the east, maybe some travel will help his political skills.

[Stig]

Ansehelm, who is still in Rome, stands

I am not the most pious man of us all gentlemen. I go to church every sunday. I pray before dinner, but that's about it. I prefer dealing with more important matters.
However if we are warned by the Pope there are two things we can do. Do as he pleases or pretend as if we didn't hear him.
I always thought that the Bavarians were more pious than for example me, and even I would follow the Pope's command on a matter like this.

You can attack the Milanese as much as you want after this warning is over, but if you march on the Milanese cities I know one person who will stop support to Bavaria in the coming Diet, and it's not the Pope.

And if your son wants to he can come here up north, to fight some real barbarians. He'll find that life in Thorn is different from the warm south. In Thorn you need to work to keep alive.

[gibsonsg91921]

LORDS!
Bavaria has the right to attack Milan without hindrance. According to Charter Amendment 5.1, the Duke has the right to use his household armies to attack an army, enemy, rebel, or neutral, if they have transgressed upon our lands. By blockading the port of Genoa, they HAVE transgressed upon our lands. Also, in Amendment 5.2, it is stated that a Duke can make war upon any faction entering his lands. Potentially, these decisions can be barred by Amendment 6.7 - an attack may not be made if it leads to excommunication without 2/3s vote. However, the papal bull did not threaten excommunication, only a mere loss of relations, which can be repaired most easily with a tithe from our treasury. Gentlemen, there is no more cause for debate.

[Stig]

Still, an attack will seriously damage our reputation.

And that means that the next warning the Pope gives will be about excommunication.
And Peter, I think you do want to attack the Poles without the Pope being in our way, don't you?

Bavaria should not attack, we've been trying to get in the Pope's favour with crusades and by giving them Durazzo, why shall we throw all that away, it's not worth. As the emperor has said: Milan is not worth it.

[gibsonsg91921]

But brother - reputation can be repaired! Dead souls to not return from the netherworld, and the cruel Milanese have, time and time again, caused good men of the Reich to die or be crippled due to her foul witches and heretics.

Legally, there is no more cause to debate - if Gerhard Steffen wishes to make war upon the Milanese, there is nothing any man can do about it except try and persuade him otherwise.

Matthias Steffen made a good point - are we to wait until Milan lands a force and takes an Imperial city? Milan is too weak, you say, to do this. They are not worth it. They were worth it many years ago when the Duke of Bavaria left Corsica fruitless, bearing no reward for his troubles except a curse upon his family.

I say, let the ol' Pope be a little offended, so we can bring justice, justice in the making since Bavaria left Corsica. If you want to heal relations, give him Corsica once we take it! I'm sure a "holy man" like himself will have no problem clearing out the heresy.

[Stuperman]

Bavaria should not attack, we've been trying to get in the Pope's favour with crusades and by giving them Durazzo, why shall we throw all that away, it's not worth. As the emperor has said: Milan is not worth it.

Then Give me something to Conquer!!!! I will not go down in history as the man that let Bavaria rot while Swabia, Austria and Franconia grew in power and Influance. In 1188 I took Marseille, It's been 46 years since then (OOC: and I've only aged 11 HAHA!!), the Size of the Riech has Doubled and Bavaria hasn't seen a new province in Europe since then. We've endured raid after riad from the Milanese and now you seek to deny us that which we have earned in blood. That is unacceptable to me.

[Stig]

As if I'm happy while Franconia hasn't been able to take a settlement the last two Diets. We even lost one for some time.

If you don't want the others to become so strong make sure the chancellor is in your house.

Franconia has come under constant attacks of Russia and Poland, and we can't do anything back. We haven't even been able to send an army to punish the Russians for the taking of Thorn.

[econ21]

Why this lust to conquer, Duke Steffen? There is more to life, and indeed to leadership, than that.

Bavaria is not rotting - as has been mentioned, its settlements thrive with booming populations and an economy that is the wonder of all. It enjoys peace and security unparalleled among all four Houses. And unless my clerks have made an error, Bavaria remains the largest House in the Reich, with the most provinces.

If you or your fellow Bavarians need an outlet for your aggression, I am sure the Chancellor can find you employment elsewhere.

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren enters the Diet.

"Greetings gentlemen! I decided to come visit Rome since i cant get to Franconia thanks to the French army in the middle of the Reich. I have been informed about the Bavarians wish to go to war. As im aware their original province is currently sacked by the French.So why are you looking for a attack on few unimportant islands when your house hold army should be protecting the capital of Bavaria?"

Jonas sits down and finishes a beer that has been passed to him.

[gibsonsg91921]

Emperor, with all due respect, I have to defend Duke Gerhard. It is not a mere outlet of aggression that is in order, but Milan is a threat to some of the most fruitful provinces in the Reich, including Rome, Marseille, Genoa, and Venice. Provinces Imperial, Bavarian, and Austrian. Not only would the collapse of Genoa or any other southern city plague Bavaria, it would plague the entire Reich! Why defend Bavaria if I am Franconian, you may ask? My rebuttal is that I defend the entire Reich! These southern coastal provinces generate thousands of florins for the feeding of our armies and citizens, and if they are lost, it will be a sore blow to the Empire.

As has been mentioned, Your Highness, the booming populations and wondrous economy are in peril. Why wait until Milan strikes? We must strike back now, and legally, there is nothing anyone can do if the Duke chooses to attack. There is precedence of the Household Armies attacking settlements without Edict, shown in Swabia's conquest of Paris. This is not an attack on Swabia's justified aggression, mind you, but there is legal precedence for Edict-less conquest of settlements. And once the BHA decides to strike, under the Charter Amendments 5.1 and 5.2, nothing can stop them.

[Stuperman]

Lust to conquer? no, not really, I wish to lead by example, and as you have pointed out Bavaria is mostly safe from without and within. But with Chancellor Hans taking control of most build ques, and little military action to be had, my role as Duke feels like little more than 'Count plus a vote'. it seems the only example I am setting is that Rome is the best place in the Riech to get a tan.

I supose I could go east, help the pope defend a city he can't even hold onto himself, and leave Bavaria in the hands of my teenage sons, there's an example to follow!

[Stig]

You seem to forget the words of the wise Von Mahren little brother. I suggest you reread what the scribe has written down. There is a massive French army near Bavaria, and still they wish to fight some little nation. Against the will of the Pope.

[gibsonsg91921]

I never said that the attack of Milan is to be the exclusive attack by the Reich! Is there no army that may be mustered by the Bavarian war machine to punish Milan and liberate the Catholic souls imprisoned by witches and at the same time mirror the French army to ensure that it doesn't attack?

[econ21]

Peter von Kastilien, I am not convinced Milan is a serious threat. It has two provinces - Bavaria has seven and the Reich in total has thirty two. If we cannot see them off should they leave their islands, we may as well all become monks.

Gentlemen, we stand at a cross roads. The Reich now is so large, rich and powerful that it can squash it enemies almost at a whim. Even the dreaded Mongols were eliminated within two years. The arguments for invading Milan "for security" could be applied with greater force to invading France, Denmark, Hungary, Venice, Russia, Turkey and Egypt.

Is that the path the Bavarians want the Reich to follow? To remorsely devour neighbouring province after province out of picque and a desire to find some employment for their Dukes and generals, all justified under a pretence to avoid some exagerated external threat?

That may be the way the Horse Lords conduct statecraft, I am unconvinced it is fitting for a long established Christian country.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

The witch on Corsica is being dealt with by a Papal Inquisitor as we speak.

We Bavarians are hearty folk and can easily repulse any attack that the Milanese throw at us. Surely we would be able to stay on the defensive for a short amount of time and then attack once the Bull runs out.

[FactionHeir]

We must strike back now, and legally, there is nothing anyone can do if the Duke chooses to attack. There is precedence of the Household Armies attacking settlements without Edict, shown in Swabia's conquest of Paris. This is not an attack on Swabia's justified aggression, mind you, but there is legal precedence for Edict-less conquest of settlements. And once the BHA decides to strike, under the Charter Amendments 5.1 and 5.2, nothing can stop them.

I suggest you reconsult with a different lawyer then, young Kastilien.
Household armies may attack without edict, yes. Now, what you seem to not understand, is that only one settlement may be specified in that order and it must reach my desk before the start of term to be valid.
The only order that I received at the time was from Duke Scherer. No other Duke had expressed the wish to conquer.
Now, as you may see from reading the charter carefully, any order given to the chancellor after the start of term is to be fulfilled at his discretion. That means, that if any Duke wishes to assault a settlement at this time, it is no order but merely a suggestion, that is non binding.

Dukes certainly are allowed to declare war on nations that enter our lands as long as they were neutral previously. No such thing occured until after the Milanese declared war. Now, declaring war is not the same as sending invasion fleets as you will surely see.

As such, unless I can convince the pope that Milanis a worthy target, chances are there will be no assault on the islands this term, unless it is a rogue attack by the Bavarians currently in Italy, which certainly will be condemned by the diet I would imagine.

[gibsonsg91921]

So you're saying, that when action is needed, the will of one man (i.e. the Chancellor) is enough to prevent it?

And Kaiser, how would you feel if Milan suddenly mustered a force to attack the mainland and regain some of its old possessions, or worse yet, Rome? You have lived a full and fulfilling life, perhaps being the greatest Kaiser of this Reich. Nearing the end of your years, would you like it if the legacy you left behind was the capture of your capital city by an army of island brigands you deemed "not worth it" to strike at? Occurences like that cast a dark shadow over the history books, Your Highness.

And Hans, you are so certain that the potential actions of Bavaria would be condemned by the Diet? Well, let's hear all who have yet to speak their mind voice their opinions!

[Stig]

Yes, little brother, the chancellor is the man that commands all the armies. And he can refrain from attacking.

Hence why Franconia voted for Ulrich Hümmel as the next chancellor, as we thought his thoughts were fitting Franconia better. Now it seems that a couple of men are cursing themselves for voting the wrong man.

And the honourable Hans is doing a good job, sure I'm not pleased that Thorn has not recieved it's garrison when I wanted it, but the Russians are stupid, so that doesn't matter.

Milan is not in the power to attack us, and as Herr Salier has said, defending is easy.

Young brother, you should concentrate on Franconia, not on Bavaria. Or did Lothar visit you as well with his little joke. I told him my brothers are more open for it, seems like I was right.

[Stuperman]

There is a massive French army near Bavaria, and still they wish to fight some little nation. Against the will of the Pope.

Which I offered to take care of (OOC: I offered OOC I think, I don't remember now), and was rebuffed, just as my offer to lead the BHA against the Hungarians was turned down, Only after Zegrab fell were we called upon.


Gentlemen, we stand at a cross roads. The Reich now is so large, rich and powerful that it can squash it enemies almost at a whim. Even the dreaded Mongols were eliminated within two years. The arguments for invading Milan "for security" could be applied with greater force to invading France, Denmark, Hungary, Venice, Russia, Turkey and Egypt.

Is that the path the Bavarians want the Reich to follow? To remorsely devour neighbouring province after province out of picque and a desire to find some employment for their Dukes and generals, all justified under a pretence to avoid some exagerated external threat?


The swabians seems to have a handle on the French, and Bavaria is thousands of miles from the other threats to the Riech.

And how many good Roman lives will be lost in repeated defensive actions against the Milanese?

OOC: I haven't pushed for a french attack for OOC reasons, I am under the impression that we are leaving them be for now in the hopes that they are more challenging later

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

"I think that there really should be discussion about the French in the heart of the Reich roaming around,still yet i havent heard a thing from the Swabians about their intrests on that force.I think if someone has the right to destroy those dogs its the Bavarians who´s capital is after all next to the French army.Or amybe we should connect the lands north from Alps to Franconia since Bavarians seem to have turned into Italians."

Jonas sits down and demands another beer after drinking who knows how many.

[AussieGiant]

Riding his War Horse up to the outer doors of the Diet, Arnold swings out of the saddle and hands the his reins to the startled Guard.

Making his way to the centre of the chamber Arnold removes his helmet and places it and his fathers sword on the Austrian Benches.

My Lords,

It seems we have quite a festival of discussion here in the Diet.

Being a man of action rather than one that gets dragged into unseemly displays of name calling and general bickering, I would propose the following.

Off the top of my head I don’t believe the Austrian House Army has anything to do right now. Without consulting the Chancellor or the current field reports from the east I would be more than happy to destroy the French Army and knight any number of outstanding nobles of any house.

They need to be removed. They’ve had plenty of time to leave our territory and I’m sure this is a deliberate attempt to provoke us.

With an evil look in his eye Arnold continues

I’m more than happy to oblige those sanctimonious frog :daisy:ers

As for the Milanese, I propose the following action.

The Popes comment is simply a warning that our standing would fall…in my opinion his favour can be reacquired with coin and we should have an emissary stationed in his back pocket to ensure any, “issues of favour” are “corrected”, with the appropriate amount of monetary donation.

In the mean time I do believe it is time to rid the Milanese from our minds and lands.

Two armies large enough to get the job done should be stationed in such away that we can simultaneously strike both targets in the same year.

At the same time, our standing with the Pope will drop and I’m sure the ex Count of Venice, and my trusted advisor, can make enough money available to sooth the poor feelings of our dearly beloved Pope.

We can clearly see a trend here gentlemen. Until we end their existence we will continue to require an inordinate amount of troops in Italy to defend the area. If they are destroyed then I’m sure an appropriate number of naval fleets can defend our southern shores.

I know it is expansionist but they been a constant annoyance for years and its time to end it.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands

I'm not interested in politics of other houses but wouldn't it be better for Austria to defend it's borders from the Hungarians.

Sides the French army is out of your reach, the Swabians can ambush it, or we can hope that Jonas von Mahren is able to overtake it.

[gibsonsg91921]

Duke Arnold - thank you for believing what Lothar and I have stressed. Hopefully the prominence of a Duke's approval will help dispel the belief that we are spoiled children picking fights with our elders, when truly we have the best interests of the Reich in our minds.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I have a proposal that could be considered a compromise regading the Milanese situation.

Now that the witch has been dealt with thanks to the Papal Inquisitor, a landing party is to be sent on the island of Corsica, or, if you consider the Inquisitor a threat, Sardinia. This force is meant to provoke the Milanese to attack us on their soil by emptying their garrison. If they take the bait then we will surely defeat them in battle, cut their production capacity in half, and still remain faithful to the Papal Bull. What say you?

[McIwoo]

*claps after the Duke of Austria's intervention and stands up*

Finally we get some sort of sense! Of course some sort of h e l p could help improving our diplomatic relationship with the Holy See. Once you've made it this far you could even start thinking that the Milanese troops and war ships would work in the same way. This way we wouldn't even need to send a host against them and both matters would be resolved in one go!

*sits back on his bench and sips his beer*

[gibsonsg91921]

King Salier, I underestimated you. I think this compromise will ensure protection without hurting our papal reputation (which I still hold to be unimportant, but I am in the minority).

And brother, it shocks me to see your sectionalism. Lothar didn't trick me about anything - you won't be able to attack the Poles if the huge cities of Bavaria are captured. I fight for the good of the Reich, not Bavaria. What do you consider yourself first, Franconian, or a member of the most Holy Roman Empire?

[TevashSzat]

Regarding the large French presence within our territories, the Swabian House Army is currently being retrained at Staufen after the recent battle, but I believe that if noone can catch out to the French, the SHA will be able to engage and destroy them.

[AussieGiant]

After drinking a few tankards of ale Arnold stands again

So after reading the field reports it does seem as if the AHA in too far away to realistically engage those French pigs.

It seems as if I will have to show the Hungarian's some Austrian steel.

Is there anything pressing going on at the moment? Ever since those pathetic Horse Lords were sent to the seven shades of hell its been rather dull.

Does anyone have a sister I could meet...I'm looking for a wife rather seriously now.

[AussieGiant]

Having taken a seat moments before, Arnold sprays ale across the Diet floor after reading the latest report from the Chancellor

Jesus wept!!

My Lords,

NOW THE FLOWERS HAVE REALLY BEEN SHAT ON!!

The Milanese must be dealt with. Their current attempt at landing yet another army on our shores confirms it!! They must be crushed to prevent their repeated attempts from drawing valuable units to our interior.

As for the Horse Lords, it seems as if the new guard will have to show their skill at arms against this fresh threat. I for one and looking forward to further tales of bloodshed and heroics.

As for me...

Arnold turns back to the Austrian benches and bellows

Sigismund, grab your gear man, it looks like we have some Hungarian sausage to slice!!!!

I'd like to cordially invite any unknighted nobles to gather in the courtyard at dawn tomorrow.

I'll have you covered in blood and gore before you know it, PLUS you'll have a nice shinny pair of gold spurs to show for it!!

With that Arnold grabs a final jug of ale before making his way out the Diet Chamber, you can here him engaging in conversation with the guards at the door on the way out

You there!!

Yes you, with the bloody door in your hand!!

Where did you put my horse??!!

You did what!!??

The door crashes closed with the departing scene of Arnold holding the guards helmet in both hands screaming through his visor about some issue or other

[Cecil XIX]

...

I am, of course, honored to accompany my duke and fulfill my duty.

[OverKnight]

Matthias leans forward in interest as he hears of the resurgence of the Mongols.

This is terrible news for Outremer. It is obvious to me now that I can no longer delay my departure to the East. I respectfully ask the Chancellor to put me on the next available ship. I am only a Squire, but the Empire will need every man it can get.

As for Milan, I still believe they should be put down, but the priority now is to defend the territories we have, particularly against such a fearsome foe as the Mongols. I am sure my family is capable of taking the islands without me. To be honest, I tire of the debate over the subject, it seems it has become more about the Arguers than the argument. I will be glad to leave it behind.

Matthias glances at his Brother's empty seat and shakes his head.

I will miss Bavaria, but some things more than others.

[Stig]

A proud looking Teutonic knight enters the Diet

Meine herren, I've come to bring you to battle report of the succesfull battle between Ansehelm and Günther von Kastillien and the Russian pagans:

The knight starts to read. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1579661&postcount=94)

[gibsonsg91921]

I am glad that the Chancellor saw what he knew is best for the Reich, rather than what outside influences *ahem* think is best for the Reich. If he is interested in re-election he gained back a lot of votes, I think, with that action.

[Stuperman]

Ansehelm von Kastillien

Congradulations on such a victory, the only good russian is a dead russian.

And to the rest of the Diet, now you see? The Milanese are the scourge Ligurian Sea, they attempt to Invade yet again and still My attempts to end this threat are resisted. The Imperial Navy should have better things to do than chase off those wretched(sp) greens.

[FactionHeir]

My lords,

I am glad to hear that the Franconians have signle-handedly defeated the Russians trespassing onto Imperial territory.
I believe the reinforcements, encompassing a full army, I have sent Franconia will now aid them in driving their own wedge into our easter enemies.

Also, while I still would have preferred to wait out the papal order or convince him to join us in the fight against the Milanese, the sight of the enemy invasion force on a fleet was incentive enough to disobey him for a greater benefit for the empire. We lost a mere sailor sinking their ship, much less than if we had to engage them on our soil.
The ships are ready to depart towards the Milanese islands, but due to most of the BHA in retraining and part of it having deserted, I currently am unable to send a strong force this term still.
Now, this does not mean I do not have any force, for I have instructed the Italian cities to raise cavalry and spears as well as spies for us in the past two years, and believe that if the Bavarians wish, I may send them off the very next year to assault the upper island still. It is not a great and powerful army, but more than enough to crush them I believe, and the best I can do at short notice.

Regarding the horse lord resurgence, Outremer castles are trainign units at full capacity and I do not doubt that we shall be able to defeat them once more. With the AHA now at the border to Bran, I believe I may safely leave Sofia behind and set sail for Outremer myself with a large force.
In the meantime, the AHA will be resupplied at Sofia with elite knights and footmen instead of at Ragusa which is too far away. I would even suggest Ragusa be made a city now that the border to the south and east is secure.

Our treasury currently is also running strong. At the start of my chancellorship, we raised merely 26,000 florins a fiscal year. Now it is over 40,000.

While my term is comign to an end, I am starting to think about the coming diet session. With the mongol invasion imminent and several operations still ongoing, I will consider standing for a second term. Whether this body grants me such trust, I do not know, but I hope that my chancellorship that is nearing its end was felt as being prosperous and secure and that our borders are better defended than they were before, that we may see far into the enemy lands due to the number of spies I have stationed and the watchtowers I ordered built, and lastly, that the fulfullment of all edicts within the first few years of my term is proof of my worth.

[Stig]

A delighted Ansehelm enters the Diet and takes his seat at the Franconian side

You did well Hans, damned well. We retook Thorn, we fought of multiple Russians and Poles. We managed to defend against the Hungarians and even managed to extend our influence in the Outremer.

I however do think that every 20 years we should see a fresh new face, just to change things, this however all depends on who will be the other candidate. Personally I would like to spend more money on the Heimat itself, as I think that's important. The Milanese cities are all rioting or near to rioting, even tho they are closest to our capital and you maybe should have been doing about that.

But for me this seemed as a very succesfull chancellorship.

[gibsonsg91921]

Hans, for all the quarrels we've had this past 20 years, I think you have had a successful and remarkable chancellorship. The watchtower system truly helps predict attacks, especially near the war-torn Thorn. I look forward to punishing Russia and Poland.

I wonder who will stand for chancellorship the next term.

[FactionHeir]

Indeed, the Italian cities are very difficult to control. Most of this however is due to the lack of chivalrous governors and the fact that all of them are on the verge of being turned into huge cities.

Having constantly constructed buildings promoting law and order however, I have managed to stop them from rioting most of the time, with Marseille the only city to riot at all during my term. During both riots, no-one was hurt, and due to the amount of law we had there it was but a peaceful demonstration.

[gibsonsg91921]

Hans had a good chancellorship, despite a few controversies, but eventually he came through. Someone said it best - the pope's wants do not take precedence over the empire's needs.

[Cecil XIX]

I would like to concur that Hans has had an excellant chancellorship. He demonstrated himself for than capable of leading our fine empire.

However, speaking as an Austrian, I must protest the idea that Ragusa be converted into a city unless Sofia is given to the House of Austria. I'm sure The Chancellor was assuming such would be the case when he made his comment, but such things are better left made explicit.

[gibsonsg91921]

I believe Sofia is going to be given to Austria, and as it can produce the powerful Gothic Knights it will more than pick up the slack. The cities on the coastline are secured by Sofia and the Papal Durazzo.

[Cecil XIX]

Count von Kastilien, I hope that your comments were not directed at me. I made it quite clear that that that I would be happy with Sofia replacing Ragusa as Austria sole castle, so it would be quite unfortunate of you to assume that I do not notice what's going on in the world.

[gibsonsg91921]

Indeed - you expressed a belief that Sofia is going to be granted to Austria and I concurred.

[FactionHeir]

I did not say that Ragusa should be converted to a city, but merely suggested, that with our southern border secure, it may be worth some consideration.
I do not know of our emperor's plans for Sofia, but as long as it is Imperial territory, it may well be used to supply Austria and the other noble houses with the needed troops.

I thank all of you fine men of the empire for the kind words you have for my humble chancellorship.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst coughs

Are you running for Chancellorship again Hans?

Who is thinking of stepping forward and going for Chancellorship?

[econ21]

Henry: I now declare the tenth Diet full session open! The deadline for proposing edicts, Charter Amendments and manifestoes for Chancellor is Wednesday 8.24am UK time. There will then be a 24 hour period of voting.

I would also like to my son, Hans, for his excellent job as Chancellor. He has seen off the numerous threats to the Reich, completed the creation of Outremer, developed our economy to a position of great strength and crushed one attempted invasion by the Horse Lords, aided by the heroism of my late brother, Duke Leopold.

As this will no doubt be my last Diet session, you will grant me the indulgence of remarking on the high standards set by all the Chancellors I have known. I urge prospective candidates for the post to come forward and attempt to maintain this tradition of excellence.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands, and straightens

yes,well dones Hans on a great chancellorship, the Empire has prospered under your term, and the terms before you.

Now I wish to announce something; I shall be standing for Chancellorship!

I promise I'll listen to the voice of the DIet, obeying clear orders.

I shall make sure Franconia is defended from the Polish and Russains and the Danish. We shall drive back these forces, and pursue peace with Denmark, but drive back the Russian and Polish Barbarians. Make them pay for the innocent lives they've wasted ina dn around Thorn.

For Austria, I shall try to secure more troops and Generals for you. Prosper, for the following years shall be of economic development, war is not gone, if the Byzantines attack, you may push them back, take Thessalonica if you wish.

Bavaria, I shall make sure the sea's around Bavaria are safe from Milanese,Veneatians and Pirate scum. You may exterminate the Milanese for good if you wish, and I shall make sure your cities prosper peacefully.

Swabia, I shall make sure your borders are safe, as the French shall strike soon, I shall secure more Generals, Duke of Swabia, for you, and mkae sure all Swabian Cities are peaceful.

To the Counts and King of Outremer, I shall make sure the Horse Lords do not come to close, all cities there shall live up to there full potential as Holy Cities, and shall stop Heathens from claiming those lands.

And to all of you, I shall make sure the Lower Class of the Holy Roman EMpire stay calm,happy. I shall not build many war machines in places they are not needed, I shall build places which make our economy prosper, but still our cities are defended. I shall make sure the Pope is satisfied, that the Horse lords of Asia stay back, and most of all, that any enemy who attacks us, is driven back with major losses, and we claim their lands.

So vote for me; if you wish for a even more economic Empire, and our borders are defended and our cities are happy!

I will be happy to answer any queries or questions.

Prinz Jobst sits, smiling.

[Stig]

Ansehelm walks into the Diet, sweating because of the temperature in Rome, he starts talking immediatly

Now that the Diet has started I wish to propose an edict:

Edict 10.1

An attack will be held against the the Russian barbarians. An army will be gathered for a Baltic Crusade against the Russians.
This army shall at the start be commanded by a Franconian general, but generals from other houses are allowed to join as well.

The goal of this small non-papal campaign is attacking and sacking the settlements of Vilnius, Riga, Novgorod and Helsinki. Many buildings in these settlements will be destroyed before leaving the settlements again, such as buildings of happiness and law (and all military buildings), so they can turn into the hands of rebels. This should damage the Russian warmachine and additionally fill our coffers.

The objective is to finish this small crusade by the year 1280.


(OOC: I don't want to take and hold the 4 cities because they will more or less mean we will have already won, and I want to fight the Aztecs)

[Warluster]

prinz Jobst stands

I have been contacted on this; and as I've said, I shall support edict 10.1.

Jobst sits

[gibsonsg91921]

Aha! I shall second edict 10.1 as well. Also, I shall propose

Charter Amendment 10.1: A 24-hour voting period in the 10th year (5th turn) of a chancellor's reign shall determine whether a limited diet session should be opened for 48 hours. Simple majority rules. In this session, edicts and household army general orders may be given only; the Charter may not be amended in this short period.


I've observed that past Chancellors complete their list of Edicts very early into their reign, and a renewed list will help give their remain years new focus.

OOC: This will also slow down the game for those who have complained about speedy chancellorships

[FactionHeir]

As most of you will already have known, I intend to stand for re-election for the post of chancellor.

You are correct to wonder why I would want to do this.
Firstly, I have led this glorious empire for 20 (5) years now and you know my capabilities, my achievements and of my support for all houses, regardless whether they stand with or against me.
Our empire now is better defended, has a system in place to warn us of threats early, runs a strong economy and a mighty warmachine with swordsmith guilds all over Europe and Outremer and a place to train our most elite troops at Sofia.

Our foes yet rattle with their puny sabers, hoping to take what is rightfully ours. I say we unleash the might of our most holy roman empire upon them if they dare!
Throughout my chancellorship, the Milanese, the Poles and the Russians have shown aggression towards us without loss of their own settlements. That is over.
I agree with the Franconians that we need to lead an incursion into the Eastern steppes to raid their homes and castles so that they shall rightfully tremble before our might and submit to our will. At this very moment, a large host of experienced reinforcements stands near Thorn to start the crusade this very next year. As you can see I have prepared well for your needs. I also believe that we need not hold any of these steppe settlements that are poor, lack farming and any useful resources. Let them keep their rabble and rubble!

For the Bavarians, you know that I support your cause to destroy the Milanese as they have shown aggression even when I felt moderation was possible.
And to prove that this is not only words, you will find, that I have raised a large force in the Italian cities ready to sail towards their islands to rid them off our maps once and for all. This I have done to make sure the threat is eliminated as soon as possible in the next term.

Austrians, you know I have secured your southern border in my last term and will aim to secure your eastern borders as well. Your army is stationed near the last Hungarian stronghold already and while Sofia is not Austrian at this time, I will make sure that you receive a continued supply of the heaviest cavalry and infantry we have available. At this very moment, 2 regiments of Gothic knights and Two-handers are ready to be commanded at Sofia.

For Swabia, it is needless to say that another French castle will be in our hands by the end of the next term to allow a swift resupply of troops at our front instead of back at Staufen. The French even now tremble at the mere mention of Swabia after we have dealt them several bitter defeats in my last term.

Outremer. I have provided and helped lead our armies into battle against the Mongols, driving them out of our lands within 2 years. 2 years my lords. Do I need to say more of my skill to manage our economy and military well at the same time? Priests and merchants flock to these lands now to improve the economy of the entire empire and to convert all heathens to the true faith. The new Mongol invasion will not stand longer than the first one, I project.

And for all houses, you know what I have done for you and what I have in the works to increase your power. I believe that all household armies shall be modernized to include only the best trained troops we have available and best weapons our smithies can forge. While you may understand that I am not overly expansionist, you will see your borders fortified and your lands secure from any hostile incursion, that you can be sure of.
Our tradelanes are likewise free from hostile waylayers and our sea lanes free from pirates and enemy fleets. Our navies have done well during my last term and I see no reason not to continue our spree of glory.

Throughout my term, our relations with other friendly Christians have improved and we are in much higher regard than we were even prior to that ambush on a crusade.

Esteemed nobles of the holy roman empire. Do you wish for more glory? More florins? More security? Stronger bonds with our friends? Fairness for all houses? And of course more military might?
Then you know who you must vote for at the end of this diet session.

[Stig]

If Edict 10.1 gets through I will be more than happy to lead the small crusade. Afterall the Russians have been terrorising my province, I'd love to do it back to them.
But this is all for later. With the edict I mean to form an army to fight this crusade apart from the Franconian Household Army, so that the FHA can stay defending Franconia.

Also I suggest a young noble from another house volunteers to join the crusade if it gets through.

[FactionHeir]

The army you need stands outside Prague. I am certain you only need to exchange a few regiments with the FHA before you can set out onto the Franconian crusade, saving you time and allowing you to take most of the settlements in your edict.

[gibsonsg91921]

Indeed, Ansehelm, our brother Fritz is leading the reinforcements, and as he is unoccupied at the moment I am sure he would not mind joining our Baltic Crusade, which now has the necessary two seconders in myself and Prinz Jobst.

[econ21]

Henry: I would like to propose:

Edict 10.2: The Chancellor will not authorise any construction in settlements without the highest level of religious building currently possible, unless there is a religious building in the build queue.

Gentlemen: I have reviewed all our provinces and, while we are about to construct a huge cathedral in Rome, in most other places, our cities lack abbeys or cathedrals. We have become too worldly, electors, prioritising war and money over devotion to God.

To rectify this, where it is possible to build a religious building, I ask all governors to include it in their build queues. And my edict proposes that the Chancellor shall not build anything in settlements where governors do not make such a provision.

Electors, I fear dark times are ahead of Christendom. The Horse Lords are returning and plague already infects one of our largest cities. Within the Reich itself, I detect a corruption as assassins and warmongers gather in ever greater numbers. Even I have acquired the wholly bogus taint of being a "killer" and a "master of assassins". Only through prayer and devotion to God can we fortify ourselves against the spiritual struggles to come.

This is a largely OOC measure. We currently make about 40k - four times what we gift each turn to the AI. This edict is a characteful way to try to force us to fight with a tigher economy, making the game more challenging.

[TevashSzat]

I will support Edict 10.2 as I have been troubled by the lack of sophisticated religious buildings in Swabia especially in the newly conquered French cities some of which do not even have a church to begin with.

Secondly, I wish to propose Edict 10.3: The House of Swabia will be allowed to take Bruges and Caen during the next chancellorship There are two main reasons for these targets. Caen is relatively obvious as it is a repectable castle able to retrain the Swabian House Army instead of the long time spent at Staufen. It would also put a damper on the French military since only Angers will remain that serves as a major recruitment center. As for Bruges, the Franconians have expressed great interest in taking Antwerp, but there is no doubt that Bruges with its large French garrison will prove to be a large annoyance. Should we take it, any French interference with Antwerp will be removed and the French will lose a major port and center of trade further crippling their economy

[OverKnight]

Matthias looks about uncertainly, perhaps he is nervous about sharing his brother's fate, or intimidated by the fact that almost all the electors are older than him. Still he rises to speak:

My lords, Chancellor Hans's term has seen great military success for the Reich. Yet I find a few of his assertions less than truthful.


Throughout my term, our relations with other friendly Christians have improved and we are in much higher regard than we were even prior to that ambush on a crusade.


Actually, our reputation has fallen from Dubious after the ambush to Untrustworthy during his term. Our Emperor began the Chancellor's term known as "the Chivalrous", at the end he is known as "the Killer". Kaiser Henry did not deserve this blackening of his name. A Saint of Battle and Grand Crusader known as such? It is a terrible shame.

The Chancellor claims to support the Houses fully, yet why does he ignore our Build Queues seemingly at will? This has happened to all the Duchies. He claims to know better than us, to cherry pick amongst the orders for those he likes and falls back on technicalities in the Charter when we complain.


. . .the fulfullment of all edicts within the first few years of my term is proof of my worth.

The Chancellor had few edicts to fulfill in his term. It is doubtful that he has completely finished Edict 9.3, assistance to our Allies. Most of the Chancellor's energy seems to have been focused on his private war against Sofia and Hungary. Though independent action is within his rights, this was not called for by the Diet. While the BHA rescued Zagreb, while we fought for our lives outside Durazzo, while the Mongols were bearing down on us, the Chancellor pursued vengeance for a personal slight against him many years ago.

Does the Diet remember? The young Count Hans had to flee from a massive Hungarian Army during the First Crusade after he impetuosly decided to cross their territory with just his retainers. Is it any coincidence this humiliation took place near Sofia, the very Citadel he took and has the most advanced Army in the Reich operating from now?


I have raised a large force in the Italian cities ready to sail towards their islands

Do you mean the few Militia units under the command of Lothar in Italy? Or the four units of professional soldiers under my command near Innsbruck? Or the three and a half units of professional soldiers in Innsbruck besides a unit of peasants? The BHA, through bribery and adventures into Austria, has melted away and has yet to be fully replaced. I am grateful for the destruction of the Milanese invasion fleet, but the situation is hardly as postive as the Chancellor describes. The Swabian HA is in the same boat, as it is divided and understrength.


Esteemed nobles of the holy roman empire. Do you wish for more glory? More florins? More security? Stronger bonds with our friends? Fairness for all houses? And of course more military might?

The Chancellor promises a great deal. All we have to do is give him an unprecedented second term, 40 years of uninterrupted rule, more power to set things right, and our blind trust that he will make the decisions for us as he sees fit, because our own choices are unwise and he knows best.

Matthias pauses, considering his next words.

My lords, what does the Reich stand for? In 1080, it was for restoration of the Empire, taking back the lands that had rebelled. Then, restoration of our standing within the Church and the expansion of our influence with the Pope. After that, it was the completion of the Crusade and the establishment of a bulwark against the infidels named Outremer. Now what our are goals? What is the overarching aspiration of the Reich?

Defense and security I have heard mentioned in the Diet. I have said the same words myself. Yet, what should be our larger goals? How do we accomplish security? Where should our borders be? Should we endeavor to restore our fallen reputation? Should we attempt peace with some of our enemies? Or is that all cast aside in the name of conquest?

These questions should be considered by the Diet. Debated in the Diet. Edicts should be more than mere seizure of territory, they should consider the other factors I have mentioned as well. There is more to greatness than victory on the battlefield.

Thank you.

[Stig]

Herr Scherer, as far as I know Franconia never said it wanted to take Antwerp, it's far too busy with other matters at the moment. The entire defence of the Reichs western frontier depends on the Swabians. I hope they can pursue a more defensive tactic, for the best of us all.

[FactionHeir]

It is indeed good of you to speak up, and I will certainly respond in a proper manner to your queries young Steffen.


Actually, our reputation has fallen from Dubious after the ambush to Untrustworthy during his term. Our Emperor began the Chancellor's term known as "the Chivalrous", at the end he is known as "the Killer". Kaiser Henry did not deserve this blackening of his name. A Saint of Battle and Grand Crusader known as such? It is a terrible shame.

I would ask you to ask any of the scribes assembled in this chamber and ask them what exactly I have said. I explicitly stated that our 'relations with other friendly christians' have improved, yes? What does this have to do with our reputation, or the name-calling?
Considering that I personally have released most prisoners that my forces have taken to boost our reputation, I believe many others have executed them, leading to a decrease in our overall reputation. That is outside of my control as you are well aware I hope.

As for the name-calling of our esteemed emperor, it is unfortunate that our enemies believe all actions to originate from him instead of from the empire as a whole. Everyone who knows our emperor well, knows that he is no mindless killer but a chivalrous example to all of christendom.



The Chancellor claims to support the Houses fully, yet why does he ignore our Build Queues seemingly at will? This has happened to all the Duchies. He claims to know better than us, to cherry pick amongst the orders for those he likes and falls back on technicalities in the Charter when we complain.

I would like to believe that you have some respect for our charter. It clearly states that buildings are constructed if their orders are provided in a timely manner. Most of them have not, and as such, it is up to myself to decide which buildings will benefit the settlements the most.
This may be more or less a technicality, but if it is disregarded, what is next? All governors deciding what units to recruit in their towns and whether to aid nearby regions or not? Clearly our charter is in place to arrange for a smooth progression of a chancellor's term and not to slow our overall progress by bickering.



The Chancellor had few edicts to fulfill in his term. It is doubtful that he has completely finished Edict 9.3, assistance to our Allies. Most of the Chancellor's energy seems to have been focused on his private war against Sofia and Hungary. Though independent action is within his rights, this was not called for by the Diet. While the BHA rescued Zagreb, while we fought for our lives outside Durazzo, while the Mongols were bearing down on us, the Chancellor pursued vengeance for a personal slight against him many years ago.

While I agree that the exact wording of the edict may not have been fulfilled, I believe that is spirit has been. Our aid to the Byzantine captial certain is not forgotten, yes?
Having stationed our own fleets near our allies' fleets also is support of their military and having Prince Jobst stand by the English to defend them against the Danes.
Considering that our enemies were to cowardly to attack us, this edict has been fulfilled as far as it can be.



Does the Diet remember? The young Count Hans had to flee from a massive Hungarian Army during the First Crusade after he impetuosly decided to cross their territory with just his retainers. Is it any coincidence this humiliation took place near Sofia, the very Citadel he took and has the most advanced Army in the Reich operating from now?
If you believe that this was merely a personal vendetta, then I question your state of mind. Surely you ought to visit the graves around Zagreb and find out where those menaces originated from? Or ask our dead breathren who slaughtered them? Most of these barbarians came from Sofia and our borders are much more secure with it in our hands. Do you wish me to gif it back to the Magyars to prove my point?



Do you mean the few Militia units under the command of Lothar in Italy? Or the four units of professional soldiers under my command near Innsbruck? Or the three and a half units of professional soldiers in Innsbruck besides a unit of peasants? The BHA, through bribery and adventures into Austria, has melted away and has yet to be fully replaced. I am grateful for the destruction of the Milanese invasion fleet, but the situation is hardly as postive as the Chancellor describes. The Swabian HA is in the same boat, as it is divided and understrength.
Have you ever been chancellor yourself, young man? I thought not.
If you had ever read my recent reports to the diet, you will have noticed that this force was assembled to aid a swift lighting conquest of the islands as the BHA is still being rebuilt and an offer was made to your Duke to accept said force for invasion or wait for the BHA to regain full strength. Any army in retraining is obviously split in several smaller forces to move as quickly as possible to their training centers, especially if those are far from the front.
Also, blaming me for the regiments deserting is proposterous.



My lords, what does the Reich stand for? In 1080, it was for restoration of the Empire, taking back the lands that had rebelled. Then, restoration of our standing within the Church and the expansion of our influence with the Pope. After that, it was the completion of the Crusade and the establishment of a bulwark against the infidels named Outremer. Now what our are goals? What is the overarching aspiration of the Reich?

Defense and security I have heard mentioned in the Diet. I have said the same words myself. Yet, what should be our larger goals? How do we accomplish security? Where should our borders be? Should we endeavor to restore our fallen reputation? Should we attempt peace with some of our enemies? Or is that all cast aside in the name of conquest?


Our goals are clear. To fortify our borders and retaliate against those who attack us, without waging an all out war against them that would be too costly for the empire as a whole. To defend christendom and Jerusalem from hostile take-overs, and to convert the heathens to the true faith. Standing by our allies to aid them in their struggles is certainly also worthwhile.
Lastly, and most importantly, our goal is to be the dominant policing force of the mainland of Europe and act as a guardian of law, order and faith.

It is not that I have not tried gaining peace with those nations we are at war with, but all efforts were quickly rebuffed by them, leaving currently no other choice as to either wage a defensive or a partial offensive war.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I s-second Edicts 10.1 a-and 10.2.

*Conrad sits back down, noticeably shaking.*

[flyd]

I am going to stand for chancellor. I am not going to make unreasonable and outlandish promises. I am not going to pretend to know what's best for each part of the Empire, or that I have some magic plan that will solve everyone's problems at no cost at all. I have always believed in decentralization, I believe the Duchies can take care of themselves. You know that I will be in the Outremer, and that the Outremer will soon be a very busy place, so I would expect guidance from the Duchies during the extent of my term, instead of ignoring it merely because it is allowed by the Charter. All I can promise is to distribute any Imperial resources we may have evenly across the houses.

I have no personal interests, and I certainly do not seek power. I will never seek a second term (nor do I have one guaranteed by the Charter...). You can be assured of this because I will certainly not live long enough. If the Horse Lords don't get me, Old Age will.

This is all I have to say. I have not mentioned the Outremer, because we all know what must be done there. How exactly it is to be done remains seen, but I have never doubted the ability of Crusaders to come to a consensus. That is how it has always worked.

[econ21]

Henry: Electors, I think now we need to re-evaluate the expansion of the Reich. As Prinz Hans has pointed out, we have grown to thirty-three provinces. Each of our Houses is a match for any rival power. For how provinces has the second largest power? It is Russia, with seven.

And what do we propose to do about that? Gut Russia, conquering many of her provinces and destroying all their infrastructure. Yes, Russia attacked us. Yes, she took Thorn by a coup de main, but here it should be noted that she merely occupied the fortress. More recently, she approached with a pitiful army that we swiped aside with ease.

But the fate of Russia is not my main concern here - it is merely symptomatic of a larger issue: our relation with the rest of the world. Prinz Hans has noted our relations with some of our neighbours have improved - notably with our brother Romans, the Byzantines. However, it is still true that we have more enemies than friends. I fear this is because most of the world views us as avaracious conquerors and wish to fight to hold us back before we overrun them.

I submit that the Reich is large enough. Indeed, I am loathe to allocate Paris or Sofia to any House at this time. They are conquests that I did not approve and I regard neither territory as a natural part of the Reich. I believe we need to take a more considered approach, not merely conquering neighbouring provinces willy-nilly. To this end, I propose:

Charter Amendment 10.2:
(a) No settlement will be captured without an Edict authorising its acquisition in advance.
(b) Captured settlements will be abandoned or given away unless, at the next Diet session, a Charter Amendment incorporates them formally as part of the Reich.
(c) The 33 existing provinces of the Reich are exempt from (a) and (b).
(d) This amendment overrides the constitutional right of Household Armies to conquer one neighbouring province.

Gentlemen, no doubt there are many among you who do not share my restraint - who want to conquer Milan, who want to crusade on Russia. But I ask men of that view to nonetheless support my amendment. For my amendment does not rule out such actions, it merely states that we should enter into them with open eyes and with the agreement of the Diet. Edicts 10.1 and 10.3 are good examples of how to proceed: a course of action is proposed, debated and in due course voted upon.

[AussieGiant]

Riding back up to the Diet Chamber Doors, a far more practised Guard expertly catches the reins thrown at him by Arnold. Of course the guard with his weapon in one hand and the reins in the other is completely unprepared for the shield and helmet thrown in his direction by the on coming Arnold. More than one squire can be seen helping the poor guard untangle and get Arnold equipment organised.

The loud racket behind him does not seem to deter Arnold from striding back into the Diet now in session.

My Lords!!

Ladies of the Realm, assorted court buffoons, clowns and esteemed members of the peasantry!!

I would like to formally announce that I will NOT be running for the position of Chancellor!!!

Spinning on his heal Arnold makes his way to the Austrian benches, he spies Hans somewhere and continues

Ohh and Hans, just what the bloody hell are your orders meant to be achieving out east?!!

Sigismund and myself are at a complete loss as to what you want us to do!! Suffice to say it's a complete balls-up out there at the moment.

I've let the captain's try and sort out the shambles and instructed them to have it fixed on pain of death if they don't!! Can you shed any light on the matter old fellow?!! I don’t thinks God’s arse could even work out what the plan is at the moment.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*A Bavarian clerk stands up and begins to speak.*

In the absence of King Salier, who has gone off and is, er, resting, I will speak for him. It is my belief that the King agrees with the Kaiser's latest proposal. It is imperative that we cease this needless expansion sooner or later. We stand periously close to over-extending ourselves and now is a good time as any to put a barrier in place. Let us see stability for once.

King Salier seconds CA 10.2.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*The same clerk gets up to speak again.*

I apologize for speaking twice in turn, but King Salier has a question that is directed to all those are standing and intend to stand for Chancellor:

What are your detailed plans regarding the Kingdom of Outremer, and how much are willing to invest in order to ensure its safety?

Thank you.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands from his chair, at the far right of the Franconian bench

I hereby second CA 10.2

[AussieGiant]

With a ale in one hand Arnold stands

I second CA 10.2.

I've got a border the size of my war horse's scrotum and not even a second Knight to cover the ground!!

The Austrian coffers are the size of Russia's and I couldn't spend all the money I have on ale if I tried...and I've tried gentlemen!!

Do you know how many suits of armour I have...let me just say it took 4 wagons to get my suits out east for the impending carnage I'm going to administer to those Hungarian pig molesters!!

I've lost count of how many houses I have...

Turning to the ex Count of Venice in query, his advisory holds up both hands in response.

Turning back to the Diet floor, Arnold motions over his shoulder at the number of fingers being held up

More than 10 actually.

I think we should give Sofia to someone...hell, how about the English? I'm sure they'd love the beach front property.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands again, looking at Arnolds direction

Young Arnold, I suggest you'd sober up. We are discussing matters of state here, would you want to drink you're welcome at Schloss Folklung, in the high north have some damned good gluhwein.

And as to why I second CA 10.2; I believe it's important that we keep attacking however, seeing the internal troubles, Bavaria is a good example, it's also important not to expand too far. Currently some cities need good governors, we can't go out and conquer if we can't even control our own citizens.
Expansion is dangerous, the crusade I wish to lead can be dangerous, however it will make sure we are safe in future. Holding settlements however is something different, as we need more garrisons, more money to support these, and more importantly longer borders. And next to that we will meet new enemies. Other nations don't trust us, once we reach other nations they will approach us with caution, and most likely with armies.

[gibsonsg91921]

I too second CA 10.2, so as to slow down our expansion and focus on the interior. I believe that CA 10.1 is necessary as well - Hans, for his very prosperous chancellorship, is blamed for abusing his power, and this way a fresh list of Edicts to fulfill will increase a chancellor's accountability.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*Late at night, the doors to the Diet burst open and a deathly pale Conrad Salier stumbles in.*

Conrad Salier:

GAH! Hashish says, hashish wants... I have seen, hashish has let me see, I... have seen...

CHAOS!

T-terrible h-happenings... Jerusalem burns, Horse Lords beheading... drinking blood, making deal with Turks... T-technology... gunpowder is the weapon of S-Satan, it explodes, hashish tells me, it shows me... c-c-c-cities... e-...e-...exploding...

Pope dead, Cardinals dead, all dead, hashish is never wrong... it has s-showed me... in the past... Otto d-dying, Horse Lords re-returning, p-plague... m-my... my... mo-mo-mother... now it shows de-destruction... Reich is in ruins, Rome is r-rubble... Satan on Palatine Hill, t-triumphant...

SAVE YOURSELVES!

*Conrad collapses and starts drooling. A large portion of the plant hashish falls out of his pockets and is visible for all to see.*

[OverKnight]

OOC: (Gotta process the last post before I do IC) List of Legislation:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1581617&postcount=9

IC:

Matthias is startled and jumps up from his seat, where he had been working on some paperwork. He rushes over to Conrad:

What the hell is Hashish? Some eastern god? Someone help me move him to a bench. Get a surgeon, for the love of God!

[FactionHeir]

Hans, for his very prosperous chancellorship, is blamed for abusing his power, and this way a fresh list of Edicts to fulfill will increase a chancellor's accountability.

Quite an accusation you put in the room here. I believe you wanted to explain where exactly I have allegedly abused power?

As for CA 10.2, I believe I can second that. It would not afterall interfere with any of the other edicts proposed, as those settlements taken can be given to our allies or the pope, to create a buffer zone.

[gibsonsg91921]

Truly, Hans, I do not believe you abused power. However, there have been outcries against your building plans in settlements, and whether justified or not, in this case no one is hurt.

[AussieGiant]

Bursting into the Diet Chambers in his night gown and hat Arnold hears Matthias's cry, turn back into the corridor he screams

For the love of God, get a surgeon!!!!

Looking sternly in the direction of Hans and Peter, Arnold shouts

Gentlemen, I think politics can be left for the moment. There's a man down in the chamber.

OOC: The timing is too good not to take advantage, sorry guy's :)

[FactionHeir]

Indeed there have been outcries. Outcries that are unfounded and unjustified as by clear wording of the charter.
Thank you for elaborating, Sir Peter.

Now, would someone please get the medicus from his chamber?

[gibsonsg91921]

Indeed, we pass fewer and fewer edicts each Diet session. CA 10.1 is a way to reevaluate the situation in the middle of the term, and revise goals if necessary. It also makes contingency edicts possible (Ex. If Edict X.xx is passed, then you must follow Edict Y.yy).

CA 10.1 still needs seconders, so if you want to ensure a smooth chancellorship, then support it!

[FactionHeir]

I have been considering whether to support it or not.
While I agree that it would be a good idea to evaluate progress during midterm, a lengthy diet session does slow down progress and may result in too much bureaucracy.
If it was reworded to something along the lines of:
"There will be a one-day quick voting period during the 10th year of a chancellor's term to determine whether a limited diet session should be opened for 48 hours. Result is by simple majority. During this limited diet session, orders for household armies may be updated as if they were given before the start of the chancellor's term and edicts may be proposed only."

I should note though, that even that CA would have a low chance of passing as we do have systems for emergency diets in place.

[gibsonsg91921]

You speak wise words, Hans, I shall reword the amendment immediately.

Edit - updated.

[AussieGiant]

Shaking his head at the scene in front of him Arnold bellows out the Diet doors

How's that Surgeon coming along?

Salier is going purple by the looks of things!

Carry on Peter, I wouldn't want one of our members near death experience to interrupt the Reich's politics.

[gibsonsg91921]

OOC: is salier still in here? geez edict 10.4 better doctors lol that stoner

[GeneralHankerchief]

*The Bavarian clerk from before stands up again.*

My lords, it appears that this hashish is not a diety, but a plant. It is grown in the east and if smoked or eaten will cause some certain... effects on the person who takes it. Speaking with the members of his staff, it appears that King Salier has been smoking it for some time now.

Also, although the distraction is regrettable, two candidates for Chancellor have spoken and so far disregarded the King's previous question. I will now restate it in case, due to events, they have missed it or forgotton.


What are your detailed plans regarding the Kingdom of Outremer, and how much are willing to invest in order to ensure its safety?

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands, and wipes his forehead

I hope you get better King Salier...

I suggest the Diet proposes a sutiable amount of money to be spent in Outremer, it would be more then we spend on our houses, but not too much it de-stabilises are economy. I would put just enough money into it so it stays protected with good armies, but does not ruin our finance.

Prinz Jobst sits

[econ21]

Henry: I would like to discuss the merits of the candidates for Chancellor. It seems we have three or four.

First, there is my heir - Prinz Jobst. God willing, the Prinz will take up the post of Chancellor by right in due course. I am sure he will serve the Reich with distinction but would understand if the Diet was cautious about handing one man too much power.

Similarly, with Prinz Hans, no one can doubt the man's ability - both on the battlefield and governing the Reich. However, I believe power corrupts and already I am concerned about our heavy use of assassins. Prinz Hans is our mightiest general and I am sure he will play a leading role in our affairs for many year to come. But I believe now may be a good time to give another an opportunity to lead.

I have heard rumours that Prinz Hummel will stand. The Prinz of Antioch is a fine man to have at your side in a battle, but it is no secret that he and I have differing attitudes to the role of chivalry. This is a man who exterminated the settlement he was governor of. I cannot question Hans's chivalry over a few assassins' victims and overlook that.

So that brings me to my preferred candidate: Count Fredericus von Hamburg. Fredericus is a man of the old school who has given a life of service to the Reich. First, in the wilds of north and eastern Europe, then on crusade to Damascus. He is of my generation and I make no excuses for saying candidly that, unlike the other candidates, this will likely be his last opportunity to stand for the highest office. He is a Franconian and it is about time that House, perhaps the most embattled of all, was given full access to the powers of the Chancellor. He is currently in Outremer and, as night fighter, is well placed to lead our response to the second wave of the Horse Lords. Finally, he is a man of the highest chivalry, loyalty and piety. I urge you all to consider voting for Count Fredericus - a man whose time has surely come.

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel stands up, ignoring the drastic scenes going on before him.

Mein electors, I formally announce mein intention to run for Chancellor.

The Reich has grown very large, very large indeed. I shall embark on a period of stabalisation, as well as punishing the Reich's enemies.

Firstly, I shall divide the Reich into several provinces governed by electors of the relevant houses.

I shall create at least eight various provinces guarded by an army quartered in a city consisting of half militia and half soldiers.

Charter Ammendment 10.3
"The Reich shall be divided into several provinces, governed by the relevent Duchies. Each province shall have a reserve army of at least 6 units, consisting half of militia and half of soldiers."

Secondly, I will create frontier regions on the edge of our borders to stablise the Reich. The interior of the Reich shall experience the true Pax Romana while I, Ulrich Hummel, reign.

I will make a stenuous effort to sack both Novgorod and Moscow. These cities shall be gifted away to our allies.

Finally, I shall conquer both Corsica and Sardinia. I am sure that the isle of Sardenia will be well appreciated by our allies, the Sicilians.

My last promise is this: Each household army shall never be beyond a state of effective fighting under mein reign.

Ulrich Hummel resumes his seat.

[gibsonsg91921]

Count Ulrich, your amendment is intriguing, but it can be more specific. How many provinces, and which settlements will make up each province. Are they governed by a Count, Duke, or something in between?

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich gets to his feet to respond.

Herr Kastilien, your question is a sound one. The provinces shall be governed by an elector appointed by the Duke.

The provinces shall only consist of territory belonging to one Duchy, lest their be disputes of allegience.

The provinces shall consist of no more than 7 territories.

Ulrich resumes his seat.

[gibsonsg91921]

It is an interesting proposition: I second Amendment 10.3

[FactionHeir]

King Salier,

I believe that Outremer should have all resources available that allow fluent construction of essential structures and maintaining the army of Outremer at full strength, divided in two brigades, north and south, at Aleppo and Acre respectively to deal with threats quickly and effectively.
For the moment, where the Mongols are approaching once more, I have authorized additional spending in Outremer to train large armies consisting of medium cavalry, pavise crossbows and armoured sergeants. After the Mongols are defeated, the least experienced forces are to be disbanded to save florins in the treasury, so that the force guarding outremer is not excessive that what is required.

During my term, I have allocated approximately a third of our funds to Outremer anually during the first invasion. During the latter years, that has decreased to a quarter and has proved to be quite effective as you can see.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*The Bavarian clerk rises once more.*

Prinz Hummel, I believe that you have been asked a similar version of this question by King Salier before, but I feel the need to ask it once again due to your comments.

You state that "I shall embark on a period of stabalisation, as well as punishing the Reich's enemies." How exactly do you plan to accomplish these two, seemingly contradictory, goals?

Also, the King's previous question regarding Outremer remains yet to be answered, Prinz Hummel.

I thank those candidates that have taken time to reply already.

[flyd]

I have not gone in great detail on the Outremer. I have already stated that Crusader tactics were always reached by consensus, and I have no doubt that we will be able to agree on a detailed plan to repel the Horse Lords. Certainly, our overall objective is clear: to protect the Christians of the Outremer. All Mongols must be destroyed before they reach any of our cities.

I do find it a bit silly to be asked, by Conrad Salier of all people, what I plan to "invest" to ensure the Outremer's safety. The same Conrad Salier who was with me on Leopold's crusade, who was with me outside of Damascus when I was the only one to join Leopold in his final battle, very, very nearly succeeding in following him into martyrdom.

But I guess you mean "invest" financially, which seems of secondary consequence. Still, victory must be ensured, so the army must be prepared as best as it is possible, and replenished when it takes losses. If the Outremer falls, it will be because of lack of faith, not because of lack of money.

[gibsonsg91921]

I should note though, that even that CA [10.1] would have a low chance of passing as we do have systems for emergency diets in place.

The issue with that is that only the Kaiser of Prinz may call an emergency Diet, and if a count needs an edict passed he will have to wait until it is too late.

[Warluster]

Or that Count could just contact the Kaiser,Prinz or Duke and ask for a emergency session?

[gibsonsg91921]

True, but I still believe that there is not enough protection for those with less power.

[Cecil XIX]

My Prinz makes a fine point. CA 10.1 has noble, but unnecessary intentions. In truth I think that there is such a thing as too much oversight, and that we currently have just the right amount: The electors meet enough to dictate general policy, but not too much to henpeck the Chancellor into a specific implementation. If we go any further then we are now, the position of Chancellor stands risk of becoming toothless!

On another note, I second Edict 10.2

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel stands up.

I would urge that the Reich retain the city of Riga. Such a town could be turned into a stronghold of the Teutonic Order, whose knights could protect the eastern front of the Reich from the attacks of the Russians.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

Charter Amendment 10.3...

Jobst throws his arms in the air

I do not get it!

"Provinces to be divided and governed separately"? I thought thats what Duchies already did!?

All the land in this Empire is divided, and governed by Duchy's already, the cities are then governed by Count's! We already have garrisons and Household Armies!

That edict, I say, is useless, as it has already been enforced, as I have proven, its already happening.

Prinz Jobst sits

[econ21]

Henry: I would like to propose an alternative to Edict 10.1:

Edict 10.4: An expeditionary force will march on Moscow, via Russian - not Polish - provinces (Riga, Novogorod etc). It must engage any enemy field armies it meets along the way, but only besiege Moscow. It will consist of a single stack and will not be reinforced except from locally recruited mercenaries. Moscow will be sacked and abandoned, although no buildings will be destroyed.

OOC: This is would be a fun thing to do - the stack could get whittled down by repeated battles, making it challenging, and by taking only one Russian settlement temporarily, we would leave them in the game.

[OverKnight]

OOC: Proposed Legislation: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1581617&postcount=9

IC: Matthias:

I too would like to have more detail on how Count Hummel plans to divide the Duchies into provinces. Perhaps a map? Also he spoke of a regional army of 6 units, but how would this be above and beyond the usual garrisons of the cities in the Region? Would one city in the region have a larger one than the rest, or would the army be outside the cities in a central fort?

I would also like to propose my own Edict:

Edict 10.5: To establish a secure land route to Outremer for our armies, Iconium will be liberated from the Turks and returned to the Byzantine Empire.

Getting to Outremer by ship is still the quickest way, but I would like to establish a land route just in case. This could be useful if we lose naval supremacy or another Crusade is called. The Byzantines have granted us military access, and if we gift them one territory, their roads will give us a land link from the Homeland to the Holy Land.

I, of course, realize there is a great deal occurring in Outremer at the moment, so I have not put a time limit on this edict.

Edit: I will second Edict 10.4. Now that's a Crusade that will put hair on your chest!

[econ21]

I second Edict 10.5. The Turks have been massing around Adana unimpeded for too long and we must support our Byzantine brothers. The timing is tricky however and the Horse Lords are the graver threat.

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel stands up and unrolls a map.

https://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3745/kotr3jy1.png (https://imageshack.us)

I fear mein cartographers are not of the highest quality, however, I trust this map shall demonstrate clearly the division I would make.

Each Duchy would contian two provinces:

Swabia - Swabia, Burgundia
Bavaria - Bavaria, Italia
Austria - Austria, Danubia
Franconia - Franconia, Prussia

The provincal armies would be stationed at the province's capital. The armies could not, however, leave the province at any time.

As to Matthias' proposal, it is sound. I would fain offer my services to accomplish this task.

Ulrich bows and resumes his seat.

[FactionHeir]

I shall second edicts 10.3, 10.4 and 10.5.

I do not however see a point in Hümmel's CA that would subdivide our duchies into even smaller parts, reigned by a secondary Duke.

[TevashSzat]

Ulrich Hummels, plan is hardly suitable to current Reich needs. In his plan, the Houses of Swabia and Barbaria do not even have the ability to expand into other territories. That cannot occur and furthermore, I myself am responsible for most of our French conquests and cannot allow land that was rightfully taken by me to be given to a lesser individual while I am left to rule in Swabia without any hope for more battles or glory.

I urge everyone the vehemently oppose his ammendment.

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel violently gets to his feet.

Nein! Nein, mein electors! Swabia would not be divided in two. The Swabian Duke would merely appoint a governor to command the provincal army - nothing more.

The provinces allow the Reich to be defended more easily, without costing much more gold.

Ulrich Hummel sighs as he resumes his seat.

[OverKnight]

Matthias pours over the map:

It is obvious to me that Count Hummel has put a great deal of thought into this, I am impressed. While I don't agree with all that he has proposed, it still needs to be fleshed out a bit, it illustrates the fact that the Duchies have grown a great deal. Our current organization of provinces and the House Army system might need revamping in the future to accommodate their growth. Recent history has shown that House Armies, particularly if engaged outside their Duchy. . .

Matthias coughs into a silk cloth.

. . .cannot defend far off portions of their respective Duchies.

If I remember my history correctly, during Otto von Kassel's term, he had an ersatz split of Franconia into two regions, similar to the proposed Franconia and Prussia provinces. Both Fredericus von Hamburg and Gunther von Kastilien each had House Army level forces, though Count von Kastilien had the official one dealing with the Poles, and Count von Hamburg had a smaller force to guard Hamburg and deal with multiple brigand armies.

Of course, the Duchy of Franconia, due to it's position and geography, was, and is, an active front both in the east and west, and Chancellor von Kassel needed those two forces for strategic reasons. This would not be the case for some of Count Hummel's proposed interior regions, such as Bavaria and Swabia. Each of those having a separate army would be a waste.

I would suggest dividing the frontiers of the Reich into Marches. These Marches could have an extra reserve of forces that would be augmented with the House Army if needed. Also, if there are nobles available, they should be assigned to a March to ensure a Coup de Main, similar to what happened at Thorn, does not occur. The Army of the Interior could maintain the heartland of the Reich.

Of course it would be difficult to legislate such a setup, considering the fluid situation we face on our borders. Much of it would fall to the Chancellor.

[TevashSzat]

I am sorry Ulrich since I misinterpreted your amendment. I assumed that new houses were to be created, but I still have some doubts regarding your proposal. Should duchies be divided into smaller parts, those who rule deep within the reich do not have much to do organizationally since they do not need to worry about defences, fighting sieges, or retraining new troops which is the biggest worries of any Duke. I suggest that if you wish to make it easier for Duke's divide the provinces instead so that every one may need to worry about expansion and foreign troops other than the normal benign economics.

[Stuperman]

Ulrich and Mathais

Both of your proposed Ideas are excelent, I certialy like the Idea of freeing up the Household armies to deal with real threats instead of having to fight every disgruntled group of men with arms.

Perhaps revising Ulriches plan to incorperate the provinces of Swabia and Bavaria into one, leaving a token force and junior gerneals to fight any brigands that might show up there. The remaining provinces would then have a larger defence force in charge of protecting the boarder, with the size of the force dictated by the threat faced to each province. i.e. Danubia and Prussia would need larger forces than Italia. This would free up the household armies to do thier duke's bidding, not back stop against "armies" of 2 understrength regiments.

[gibsonsg91921]

Kaiser, I do not see how your Edict 10.4 is a Holy Crusade if we cannot purify all of the steppes and it is not supported by home. The purpose was to spread Catholicism into the steppes against the Orthodox barbarians, not send a weak army mindlessly ravaging inside Russia. The Household Army can do that already, without an edict.

[Stig]

I will second Edict 10.4, even though I prefer my own.

My mission is to destroy the Russian Warmachine, and to make sure they are pushed back, so that we can make a no-man's land, and thus we will be safe from them for a very long time.

But even though 10.4 is more dangerous, I will still be more than willing to lead it, as I wish revenge.
But it must be made sure that if it gets done my (or anyone else who leads it) army will be followed by another army led by a young noble from another house. After a couple of battles this army can reinforce the big one.
Next to that this attack would rely heavy on mercenaries as reinforcements.

But I like it's idea and already volunteer to lead it.

I suggest that at the votings we vote for the following:
None
Edict 10.1
Edict 10.4

The winner takes all

I however really insist on a reinforcement army following the first, this can follow 6 years after the big one, so there's time to assemble. Next to this, this army might be able to attack Riga, so that we create the bufferzone I insist on.

Gentlemen, I've lived in Thorn for the last 40 years, believe it's no fun.

(OOC: I really like Igno's idea for reasons that it will make this game more interesting, but Ansehelm will not second it).

[OverKnight]

Matthias speaks again:

My lords I would like to present a House Edict:

Edict 10.6: The continued Milanese threat to Imperial trade and lands will be ended by taking Corsica and Sardinia. The witch Danae will be eliminated before any siege of the Castle on Corsica. The most devout Priests available, at least two, will accompany the army to bring the light of God to that accursed Isle. Once both islands are in our possession, Sardinia will be offered to the Sicilians in exchange for florins and/or their good will. All this must be accomplished in 10 years (5 turns).
Proposed: Matthias Steffen
Seconded: Duke Gerhard Steffen, Lothar Steffen

A similar proposal was given many years ago. With the Corsair threat to Italy removed, the BHA will be free to assist other Houses as needed, as we have done in the past. This Edict will also serve to strengthen our ties to Sicily, our oldest Ally who has stayed loyal to us through Excommunication and War. This should be rewarded.

Thank you.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold stands

I can see what Hummel is trying to do. I myself have stated that the size of Austria requires a second army.

If two administrative lines would help this then I am in favour of this concept.

Please note however that as the Duke of Austria there will be no second Duke or equivalent individual.

Clear lines of authority are need to govern such large regions and I for one will come down hard on any group or individual trying to carve out smaller principalities under my nose. Austria is Austria and it will remain that way whether there are additional administrative titles established or not.

On a side note...can anyone provide me with some insight into what the hell is going on out east?

[AussieGiant]

Actually my lords I have an idea.

In line with Matthias Steffen edict what are the opinions of this body towards giving Sofia to the Byzantine's?

I am naturally inclined towards exerting my hatred towards the Hungarians.

[gibsonsg91921]

I believe that Sofia, the military factory, should be kept and given to Austria. The Gothic Knights and Zwei Handers trained there, no doubt, can take Hungarian land and give them to Byzantium.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*The Bavarian clerk stands up.*

Perhaps we keep it for a short amount of time - say, ten years (five turns) - enough to produce a suitable amount of soldiers. Then, perhaps, we can give it away to the Byzantines. Would this be satisfactory?

[Stuperman]

Although it has already been seconded by 2 people I'll second edict 10.5, continued support of the byzantines is necessary, our roman brothers have fallen on hard times recently, and deserve our support.

edit: Although giving up Sofia would give the Hungarians a boarder with the Byzantines again, and they could make war on each other instead of us....

[Stig]

I agree with Herr Salier, we should recruit loads of good recruits at Sofia, and than give it away (OOC: to make the game more exciting again).
By then Castles as Thorn are big enough to take over. I also suggest that, in addition to CA 10.2 we assign a Heimat, these will be the most important borders of the reich, and these should be our real borders. Everything outside that are extentions. Maybe treated as Imperial Provinces instead of Duchy Provinces.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*The Bavarian clerk rises:*

It has come to my attention that, while Antioch is safe, Jerusalem has fallen victim to the same plague, and that the Pope is inside. It seems that there is a very good chance that Vivianus may not survive the outbreak. With that in mind, I propose the following edict in the name of King Salier:

Edict 10.7: Should Pope Vivianus die thanks to the plague currently ravaging Jerusalem, all efforts shall be made to keep our favor at the highest level possible with the new Pope. Any purposeful ignorance of any and all Papal Bulls issued is to be considered in violation of this Edict.

Thank you.

[Cecil XIX]

I second Edict 10.7.

[gibsonsg91921]

I oppose Edict 10.7 - what if there's an occurence that we need action and cannot wait for the Pope?

[FactionHeir]

Indeed, that is why I am not seconding it. While I used to believe that a papal bull is imperative to follow, the recent Milanese boat near Florence has proved otherwise.

[econ21]

I second Edict 10.7.

[AussieGiant]

Edict 10.8 (Personal Edict)

Sofia shall be given to the Byzantine Empire in the year 1250.

This shall ensure direct and safe military access via land to Outremer.

All attempts must be made to maintain this land bridge using all means at our disposal.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I second 10.8.

-edit- OOC note: count this as a "yes" vote, econ.

[econ21]

I second Edict 10.8.

[FactionHeir]

I believe that 1250 may be too early to train sufficient troops for Austria. Where Sofia is to go should be decided at the next diet session after we had some ample opportunity to use it to its full extent.

Also, simply giving it to the Byzantines without qualifying that we must be at peace or allied at that time is more than dangerous.

[gibsonsg91921]

Hans makes a good point. Wouldn't it be ironic if we gifted this military powerhouse to an enemy? I think we should only gift it to the Byzantines if we are still allied - not neutral or enemy.

[OverKnight]

Matthias:

I doubt the Byzantines would be stupid enough to betray us, their protectors. Of course, I never thought we would ambush, even accidentally, a Crusade army, so odder things have happened.

Perhaps Duke Arnold could add that caveat into the edict. Also I don't believe the Diet would sanction a Chancellor who did not enforce the Edict considering that situation.

If both Arnold's edict and my own pass, we would be gifting the Byzantines a great deal. Should we ask for anything in return? Vassalage perhaps? (OOC: Probably not the best idea, since we get back much of the money we OOC donate to them, and Vassalage tends to be wonky) Assistance against one of our enemies? Even if we ask for nothing, that would be adequate, but why not take advantage of this gift if it can benefit us.

[FactionHeir]

OOC: You can only ask for vassalage if the faction is hostile. Assistance is near impossible even with immaculate reputation. Ditto with Untrustworthy.

[Ignoramus]

OOC: Does the Kaiser really need that much influence in Diet elections? It's obvious that econ21 holds the deciding vote.

[Stig]

Ansehelm comes walking into the Diet again and immediatly he begins to speak

Meine Herren, do you remember me mentioning that the cities here in the south are rioting? I bet you do. And do you remember us thinking of a way to solve it, even though the Honourable Hans couldn't solve it? I bet you do.
Well I've been here in Italy for a couple of weeks now, and I must say, people are clearly unhappy. And there's one simple reason: THE TAXES!!!

Why do you force these people to pay very high tax rates if they cannot pay it. You're forcing these people to riot, it's either die of hunger or overthrow the current leaders.

What do you say about lowering the taxes, make the people happy again. Happiness should be about 100%, not around 85%. People should be happy with us again, and it clearly doesn't look like that's so now. The Honourable Hans claims that we are getting more income every year, well that means that the taxes can go down. Be good for the people, don't be gready and take everything yourselves.

Ansehelm sits down again and commands his servants to fetch him a strange drink, ice and ice cold, with some strange deer engraved on the bottle.

[FactionHeir]

Indeed, I could have lowered the taxes, but as there was no risk of actual riots and governors all commanded taxes be so high as to not cause riots, would you go against that?

[Stig]

I would, and I suggest that the governors lower the taxes for the next 20 years. We get enough money anyway

[Stuperman]

OOC: lower taxes means more population, which makes our problem worse, and this isn'y the place for OOC discussion.

IC: I think we should give Iconicum and Sofia to the Byzantines in exchange for assitance against the Turks, We'll be busy with the Mongols, and the Egyptians.

[gibsonsg91921]

I doubt the Byzantines would be stupid enough to betray us, their protectors. Of course, I never thought we would ambush, even accidentally, a Crusade army, so odder things have happened.


OOC: Don't doubt the wonders of this game's AI

[McIwoo]

I do not think Edict 10.8 is the wisest way to help our allies the Byzantine Empire for in case the region is taken away from friendly hands, whereas by The Eastern Empire turning on us or by a foreign army conquering it; it would requiere more of our people's blood to take it back.

A wiser decision in my humble opinion could be to lend a host to the Eastern Empire or to settle on a regular amount of gold paid on the Imperial budget.

For the matter of the Italian disorder, I have also raised the issue in the past. As Count of Marseille, I do not believe that lowering the taxes would do as much good as increasing and/or improving the administration and local government as well as leisure facilities. The Chancellor by his actions have seemed to take this path which I think will serve us well.

[Stig]

Actualyl Marseille is one of the worst cities to be, young Marcus.
I think there's still much to learn. Leisure activities cost money, money we also need for the wars in the Outremer and East. If we lower the taxes it too will cost us money, but over a short time less. Sides leisure activities don't really help.

And next to that it's the Bavarians that are having these problems, and the other houses that need the money are troubled by it. Because you want to give your people something to do, we can't do what we want!

Ansehelm sits down mocking

[FactionHeir]

As far as I am aware, only the racing tracks in Outremer cost additional florins to maintain, the brothels in Italy do not.

[Stig]

They do cost money to build tho. Sometimes upto 6000 Florins. I could buy myself a nice army for that

[Stuperman]

They do cost money to build tho. Sometimes upto 6000 Florins. I could buy myself a nice army for that

And maintain it for how long?

if you build a building that allows you to keep taxes high then eventually the building will pay for it's self.

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

What is this nonsense. With high taxes we will keep our cities manageable and fund our armies. If the population of Northern Italy cant tolerate beeing taxed like every other city dwellers in the Reich are,maybe we should let them rebel and give them reminder who are their masters by hanging few of them from the city walls after putting the trouble makers to the sword. Maybe we should set an example?

[Stuperman]

Gerhard Steffen

I don't think that's necessary just yet Jonas, but in time it may be.

OOC: Eventually the pop growth shoudl satbilize at 'orange', right?

[Stig]

Actually Gerhard the buildings don't help that much if you keep the taxes high.
On day one people are pissed off because of the high taxes, on day two they get more pissed off, etcetera. Now you build a building again they become somewhat more happy again, after that it will just start to drop again.



(OOC: it doesn't matter if you have buildings with +5% happiness, high taxes will make sure happiness drops overtime, it won't stop, it'll keep dropping).

[AussieGiant]

My Lords two things.

First, I will leave edict 10.8 as worded. You are free to vote on the legislation as you see fit. The Chancellor has leeway to ensure some reassurances from the Byzantine's.

Secondly, in preparation for the coming elections I hereby appoint Sigismund von Mahren Count of Venice.

Please ensure the administrative matters are attended to regarding the voting record.

[AussieGiant]

Austria has another administrative matter.

We have a 4th Elector of Austria (Ituralde). He is hereby appoint the Count of Budapest.

Please have this recording in the voting documents.

[AussieGiant]

In tne Official Voting lists there is an omission.

The full edict should read:

Edict 10.8

Sofia shall be given to the Byzantine Empire in the year 1250.

This shall ensure direct and safe military access via land to Outremer.

All attempts must be made to maintain this land bridge using all means at our disposal.

--------------

Those directives under the year are necessary and binding aspects.

[OverKnight]

OOC: Updated legislation list (Yes AG, yours too. :P) :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1581617&postcount=9

[McIwoo]

I cannot help to have noticed that our dear Count of Thorn spoke about the leisure part of my intervention; lacking to observe that I also mentioned improving the local administrations. But this is as good as it gets with the Empire “politics” I suppose. We all have our areas of interest, those closer to our daily problems.

What the Count of Magdeburg, whom, may I precise is also from the House of Franconia, hasn't apparently noticed is that if the Empire doesn't have the rich cities of Northern Italy paying juicy taxes, we cannot afford such an extended oversee military force as our expensive expedition in the Holy Land while having armed forces capable of defending our Home lands. The rebelling County of Marseille, as rioting as it is, if you allow me the approximation, is paying for the salary, equipment and training of your Franconian household army. This is not said in order to brag but to try to give you a sense of the importance of this topic.

For the record, if you seriously think about slaughtering a population of tax paying rich tradesmen and citizen who are the very economical heart of our dear Empire, this even without considering the alternatives, you might consider slaughtering the population of “every other city dwellers in the Reich” for not putting enough gold into the imperial vaults.

[Stig]

Talk sense young Markus, look at the cities, and you'll see that mainly the people in Italy are unhappy, all others are happy with what's happening, and they are even further from the capitals.

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

Count of Marseille. Im very happy to hear your education of the economical situation of the Reich.While you yourself dont understand that Franconia with Hamburg as the trade center holds the Baltic Sea trade on its grasp. We dont need the Italian Money. And personally if you want to tell me about crusading please go through one and come back then to talk how much it is has to do with Italian merchants. I dont care what subjects of the reich behave rebelliosly. If that happends im more then ready to put them into sword,whether they were Italians or French or bloody heathens in Outremer. Each morning that i wake up i thank the lord for living in the North where are still true Germans.

[OverKnight]

Matthias looks discouraged at the current topic of discussion.

My lords, the fact is that no city in the Reich is currently in rebellion. I believe Marseille had a relatively harmless and brief uprising that was quickly put down a few years ago. An astute Chancellor will be able to adjust tax levels to avoid rebellion and fill the coffers of the Reich.

The cities of Bavaria are are as loyal as any in the Reich, but the large populations of the Italian cities makes them a bit more. . .restive. Could we please cease talking about putting them to the sword? None have rebelled. This rhetoric serves no purpose.

As for "True Germans", a man from Milan is as much an Imperial citizen as one from Magdeburg. Both settlements were not part of the Reich in 1080, they were both taken from our enemies, the Milanese and the Poles. Much has happened since they were both frontier holdings, rife with yearning for their former masters. Both are now integral parts of the Reich, Magdeburg as a troop center and Milan as a financial one. To denigrate one is to insult the other.

[AussieGiant]

Looking up from various reports Arnold speaks

Bloody hell Matthias, you're a born diplomat!!

Maybe we should have you negotiate with the Horse Lords!!??

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren

Matthias.When im talking about Germans.Im talking about Germans. Magdeburg is a German city.While it was in the hands of the rebels before it was captured again.The Holy Roman Empire and German peoples is not the same thing. As Kings of Rome the German Kaisers rule the Holy Roman Empire,but that doesnt mean that dirty Italians or lazy French are Germans even if they are subjects of Holy Roman Empire or that they will ever be Germans like Bavarians,Swabians,Austrians,Francs or Saxons.
Also the people of Outremer are not Germans.And i would say that even a Bavarian,Saxon or Franconian commononer would be insulted if he would be claimed as same as the serfs in Outremer. So i remain in my stand.If the Italian cities wont pay taxes the same amount as God fearing Germans.We should teach them how to start paying their taxes, swiftly and decisevely.

[Stig]

The wise Von Mahren is right, and I think it's good that anyone who is less than half his age atleast listens to what he has to say, as mostlikely he will be more right than you are.
I govern Thorn, and it isn't a German city, the people there are more Polish and Baltic. Prussian to be precise, not German as in Frankfurt and Magdeburg.

Though we can say whatever we want about the citizens, I must point out that the Bavarian governors are still young and very inexperienced. I heard Matthias for example is a poor administrator who lacks justice. That's all simply due to age. I myself am 27 now, and still have many things to learn.

But atleast the people in Thorn are happy.

[OverKnight]

With all due respect to my elders, Count von Mahren and Count von Kastilien, Milan too was a possesion of the Reich's before it rebelled. It has been reclaimed as well.

As for Thorn, well people are naturally more content within a Castle's walls, either because of the protection or for fear of the garrison.

[FactionHeir]

I would like to believe that after 150 years of Imperial rule, our heartlands are almost exclusively populated by Germans.

[Cecil XIX]

I disagree. The Reich as encompassed many different peoples for generations, since they are all freer to move about inside our borders then between them I would imagine that are cities are not as ethnically monotone as they once were.

[Cecil XIX]

This portion of the transcript has been hastily but completely scribbled out.

[AussieGiant]

Standing, the Duke of Austria gazes at Sigismund for some time before walking slowly from the Diet chambers motioning for his advisors and Slavic bodyguards to join him

[OverKnight]

Matthias looks surprised at the commotion.

After some consideration, I will second Edict 10.3

[econ21]

The 10th session of the Diet is closed. Polls will shortly be posted. Debate may continue as normal.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands and speaks

I've already seen people voting for Edict 10.4, and as a whole there's nothing wrong with it, but I doubt any of them is actually going to perform this mission, as it will be mostlikely me who voluntered for it. I however do wish to suggest that one of them comes with me if Edict 10.4 is approved, so they will find out what the Russian horsemen are like, you can't fight them with an army that can't be reinforced and that lacks the horsemen to counter the Russians.

[Stuperman]

as I read the edict 10.4 it indicated that reenforcements are to come from local mercinaries(sp), which would be those russian horsemen you speak of.

[AussieGiant]

Sometime later Arnold re-enters the Diet chamber with his advisors and Bodyguards.

Nodding to a few select Lords, he takes his seat and begins reading the voting.

[McIwoo]

*nods at his father with interest*

If it weren't for the Milanese threat, I would come with you Count of Thorn. I am very much interested in the tactical warfare of the steppe horsemen.

*seems to get lost in his thoughts*

Perhaps if both offensives don't happen in the same time.

[Stig]

You are right Herr Steffen, the mercenaries will be Russian Horsemen, but you seem to forget that the Russians build armies consisting of sometimes only horsemen, I fought one of those. And we keep building old-fashioned infantry heavy armies. Now there's nothing against that, but our solid spear and sword formations miss the agility of the Russian horsemen. Still Moscow should be easy to make would there be enough money to recruit mercenaries.

And yes young Steffen, you should go and fight some Milanese, but beware of the witches on Corsica.

[Stuperman]

I also would like greatly to go north and Teach the russions what happens when you buy Bavarians. Hopefully, the milanese won't keep us busy for long.

[Stig]

If it would be up to me I would be in Moscow by the time you even reach Thorn

*Ansehelms smiles*

(OOC: as it seems it's best to take a young Franconian, there are many of those. In all other houses people are far too busy)

[AussieGiant]

Sometime later Arnold re-enters the Diet chamber with his advisors and Bodyguards.

Nodding to a few select Lords, he takes his seat and begins reading the voting.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands

I wish to be the first to congratulate Herr Hümmel with his chancellorship
And I also wish to inform you that I'm more than willing to leave for Moscow right now, would I already have an army. Anyone objecting to me leading the crusade to Moscow should now stand and speak.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands,clearly smiling

Congratulations Ulrich, after years of going for the position you have attained it!

Ansehelm, I have no objections to it, in fact, if I could, I would jin you on your Crusade.


prinz Jobst sits

[Stig]

Well I want to leave as soon as possible. After the two recent battles I've really managed to take out a large part of the Russian army and thus they are weaker now, ensuring a safe passage to atleast Riga. The longer we wait the earlier I will have to fight their reinforcements coming from Bulgar.
One thing I will have to ask for is the recruitement of a spy to inform me of any troops in the area that can be attacked and destroyed.

[OverKnight]

Matthias scans the election results and visibly exhales.

I too join in congratulating Chancellor Hummel on a hard fought victory. I believe this was the closest election the Reich has ever seen.

I also ask that I be ordered to Outremer as quickly as possible. The Holy Land is under threat, and I will not stand idly by if I can assist.

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel rises and bows towards his supporters.

I thank you, mein friends, for investing me with this most important honour. I shall not fail you mein friends.

But, I am particularly slighted at the intentions of the Franconians, who had given me some show of supporting me, only to push forward their own candidate.

Ulrich resumes his seat.

[Stig]

As I said Herr Hümmel, you can't not support a candidate from your own house if he hasn't done anything against you. I would have supported you, would it not have been so that Fredericus ran for chancellorship as well.
We supported you the last time, and back then we were the only one to support you. Now we had the choice of continuing, or dropping our own house, and you should agree with me that that's something one should never do.

And I can tell you that we did not push forward a candidate, it was Fredericus own choice to run for chancellorship, none of us had anything to do with it.

[TevashSzat]

It saddens me that Amendment 10.2 has passed essentially halting the expansion of the empire, but to clarify something, I may still capture French territories, but must abandon it and let it rebel afterwards, am i correct?

[econ21]

[Henry:] Duke, by clause (a) of the Amendment 10.2, it is forbidden to capture any territories without authorisation by an Edict. Since Edict 10.3 failed, no French settlements may be captured unless another such Edict is passed.

[Stuperman]

Congradulations Ulrich, I'm glad to see you in the Chancellor's chair (OOC: 3rd swabian in there in a row?)

I wish you a long and prosperous reign.

[Dutch_guy]

A Franconian messenger enters, opens a piece of parchment and starts reading

My Duke and master offers his most sincere congratulations to the newly elected Chancellor. And he hopes past....differences will be forgotten for the good of the Reich. Especially considering the circumstances in which they were forged in the first place. My master has high hopes for this coming term, and is sure Hummel will make a fine chancellor, and see to the needs of all houses - in equal fashion.

The Messenger, obviously relieved, returns to his seat.

:balloon2:

[Ituralde]

A young Franconian Noble enters the Diet. From his looks it is apparent that he is a descendant of Günther von Kastillien, while the resemblance is not striking enough features point to his heritage.

I would like to also congratulate Ulrich Hummel on his recent election to Chancellor!

I am looking forward to accompany my brother Ansehelm against the Russians. I would have preferred the larger purge suggested by him, but I'll settle for the smaller incursion into Russian territory. This will be my first assignment and I am intent on furthering the glory of the Reich through our deeds!

[Stig]

Ansehelm, still in Rome as he doesn't have his army yet, stands and speaks with loads of sarcasm

Don't worry little brother, at the speed things are going now the next Diet will have started before we leave, then we can get our Edict through

[AussieGiant]

Arnold stands

I behalf of the entire Austrian House I would like to congratulate Lord Hummel on his hard fought victory.

I believe it is been far better for the Riech as a whole to have such a hard fought election.

Just to be clear my Lords, CA 10.2 prevents ANY expansion unless an edict is passed. We are at a halt in expanding the Reich's borders for the next 20 years.

[TevashSzat]

I too would like to congragulate Ulrich Hummel for his hard victory. This election for chancellorship may be the closest that we had ever had in decades and I certainley hope that he will be able to prove the doubts other had against him wrong

[AussieGiant]

Gazing around the deserted chamber Arnold wonders to himself just how this Reich really works.

A few weeks of intense debate is followed by years of long distance communication as the Reich’s leadership conduct their own wars, govern their own provinces and trade their own wares.

Gazing through the vast chamber Arnold can see a few servants polishing the wooden benches. His eyes finally rest on the seat where his Grandfather, Kaiser Heinrich, sat all those years ago. The seat is so worn it has deep groves of darker wood as centuries have past where Emperors have taken their place to rule the Reich.

His mind wanders to the latest drama regarding the House of Austria.

What would the von Mahren's do...would they lay claim to the House of Austria, or leave things as they are...

Looking at his father seat in the Austrian benches Arnold face is lost in thought...finally, he stands and slowly leaves the Diet chamber.

Two men can be seen observing his exit

[AussieGiant]

Lord Chancellor,

Having now read the reports from Outremer I'd like to request that the Austrian representative in the Holy Lands be involved in any planned actions.

Lord Zirn has been sadly neglegted by the previous Chancellors plans.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: It is with regret that I announce that Kaiser Henry is dead. He passed away peacefully in his sleep at the end of the year of our Lord 1240.

However, I am sure the Electors will join me in welcoming our new leader and chair of the Diet, Kaiser Jobst.

The Kaiser is dead. Long live the Kaiser!

[TinCow]

*Lothar Steffen walks into the Diet and takes his seat with the Bavarian delegation. He looks around the room and grins.*

Long live Kaiser Jobst!

[AussieGiant]

Arnold stands

Kaiser is Dead!! Long Live the Kaiser!!

[Stuperman]

I deeply mourn at the news that Henery is dead, he was a cool head in many times of crisis, an example for all to look up to. His Presence on the battlefield always inspired confidance, and his council always inspired hope, may his journey to Sto-Vo-Kor (OOC:Star trek anyone?) be celebrated my all.

Long Live Kaiser Jobst!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Kaiser Henry was a model of consistency and hope for his entire tenure in office. I mourn his passing deeply. May the rest of you Electors follow his example.

I wish Kaiser Jobst a long and prosperous reign.

[gibsonsg91921]

Kaiser Henry always knew what was best for the Reich and executed his plans masterfully.

Long live Kaiser Jobst!!

[Ituralde]

It is with great regret that I hear of the death of Kaiser Henry!
He died far away in an unknown land, but he will be cherished by all people within the Empire! His service for the Reich has been outstanding and he will be missed by all.

I salute Kaiser Jobst and swear my fealty to him!

[Stig]

Ansehelm still in Rome mocking about Russians and no men to fight them walks into the Diet, only to here about the death of der Kaiser. He halts and speaks

I too am touched by the death of Kaiser Henry. I propose a week of mourning to, how will I put it, celebrate this man.
After that Prinz, excuse me, Kaiser Jobst can announce his heir.

You will have to excuse me now, I have been planning on going back to the north for quite some time now, this might not be the correct time, but I still need to assemble an army.

[Kagemusha]

Jonas Von Mahren enters the Diet.

"With great sadness.I will pass my condolences to the family of Kaiser Henry.I was with him,when Jerusalem fell and in my mind Henry represents the ideal of Holy Roman Kaiser. May he rest in peace. I hope that Kaiser Jobst will continue his fathers work to ensure the glory of the Reich. Heil Kaiser Jobst!"

Jonas salutes and drinks the whole pint of beer with one swallow,then he leaves the diet.

[Warluster]

Jobst stands,his head bowed

It is always a tragic event the death of someone, but the death of a Kaiser...

At least now you can rest your mind Henry... You had a long,properous reign.

I stride to live up to your deeds.

Now to other matters we are to attend to.
I believe Lyse von Salza is going to be of age, a princess soon. I encourage anyone who is thinking of winning her heart to do so.
Other then that, nothing else changes.

Jobst sits, now Kaiser Jobst.

[AussieGiant]

And what would winning her heart entail exactly Kaiser Jobst?

[Northnovas]

Karl Zirn

Electors, before we move on to other matters I would like to express by sadness of Kaiser Henry's death. I had the opportunity to speak with him while in the Outremer and will make it my mission to carry on his idea of the Holy Roman Empire in the Outremer. I shall not fail him or the legacy of the Austrian House.
Long live the Kaiser Jobst and the Reich!

[OverKnight]

*Lothar Steffen walks into the Diet and takes his seat with the Bavarian delegation. He looks around the room and grins.*

Long live Kaiser Jobst!

Matthias's face grows stern, anger and resentment flash across his features as he witnesses his brother's actions. He leaps to his feet.

You arrogant bastard! Kaiser Henry is dead, the man who was ruler for our entire lives, who lead the Reich to glory and redemption, who, along with the the rest of the now departed first, great Generation, crafted the luxury and dominion we now enjoy. All this he has done, he had sacrificed for, and you caper into the Diet grinning like an idiot as if you've done something that's mattered!

Enjoy your hollow triumph over a dead man. I only hope we can meet the standards he set. To maintain the model of integrity he put forth in his rule. If you are any indication, brother, we will not.

Matthias's gaze shifts to take in the rest of the Diet.

The Kaiser is dead, God save the Reich!

May our Lord grant Kaiser Jobst the wisdom to rule well.

[Cecil XIX]

I also express my sorrow at the death of such a great man. A true knight, he exemplified every quality that a young noble such as myself could hope to attain. He was skilled in war, fair to all, and worshipful of the Lord. His leadership will be dearly missed. I pray Kaiser Jobst will also have a virtuous and honorable reign.

[TinCow]

Lothar rolls his eyes.

Dearest brother, you are being ever so rude. Have you no respect for the dead? Surely your inane rants about integrity can wait for a more proper moment. Regardless, we are here to pay our respects to our new Emperor and declare our loyalty to him. Did father not provide you with tutors to teach you of such formalities? I am simply doing my duty to my new Kaiser. Jobst is the future, my brother, and you would do well to respect him.

Perhaps you should retire from this place and rest. We have all heard of your constant illnesses. I would not want my own brother to catch his death in here. Hopefully the dry air in Outremer will do you some good. If not, perhaps you can have Conrad sneeze on you. Last I heard, the very spittle of the King of Outremer can cure the bloody flux! Or is that cause it? Apologies, I get these 'miracles' so mixed up these days.

[Cecil XIX]

It is obvious that you are the one being disrespectful, my Count of Florence. If you truly cared about being respectful to the dead, you would have either apologized or ignored the brother. You would *not* respond in an arrogant and condescending manner, claim that outrage at perceived insolence is itself insolence, or make uneccessary and uncalled for insults against the honorable King of Salier. And you would not make rediculous statements about the future, as if you only see reason to pay respect to the Kaiser because of his office. I say again, either apologize or be silent and let the matter pass.

[OverKnight]

Matthias glowers at Lothar but says nothing.

[FactionHeir]

Dirk Freihafen enters the diet

It is with great sorrow that I see a good friend pass away. I fear I should have been with him at his last moments, but alas, I could not.
I also bear a message from the late emperor's son, that he is mourning his father's passing in private, but wishes the new emperor divine guidance in ruling this vast empire.

[McIwoo]

*Observes his brothers’ public animosity with a stern face*

My dear brothers please respect this noble assembly and keep your self control.

The King is dead. Long live the King!

[AussieGiant]

Looking over at "House Steffen" Arnold chuckles

It seems Duke Steffen needs to take the boy's outside for some training. There seems to be some pent up frustration going on over there.

May I recommend Helmut, he's the reigning jousting champion and would be more than happy to thrash a few of you on the field.


Kaiser,

As I requested, what would one have to do to gain's one's favour with the lady?

[Warluster]

Kaiser Jobst stands

Duke Arnold, I know very much you seek Lyse's hand.

I know there shall be at least another person, competeing.

You are a very battle hardened man, its something I respect. But first, before I can give Lyse away, I have to see you prove it, again.

But before any thing happens, we have to go through rh appropiae mourning.

Kaiser Jobst sits

[TevashSzat]

I am sorry for being late as the French have been quite bothersome, but must say that I too mourn for the passing of Kaiser Henry which I don't think anyone can doubt have done much good during his reign. Kaiser Jobst will need much effort to match the rule of Henry

[econ21]

[Elberhard:] Thank you, Electors, for your kind words about my father. We'll all miss the old @#$%^&!.

I swear my fealty to Kaiser Jobst - may his reign be long and glorious.

And may I be the first to welcome Scotland into the fold of the Reich. (Looks bewildered at the alarmed Diet speaker). What? ... I wasn't supposed to mention that? @#$%^&!ing hell! Sorry...