Starcraft 2

[The_Doctor]

http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/starcraft-2/790124p1.html
http://uk.media.pc.gamespy.com/media/850/850126/imgs_1.html

It looks a hell of a lot like the first one. Even the units and buildings look the same.

[Tran]

Hmmm...I thought after all these years, SC2 was just a hoax...turned out to be wrong...

EDIT: Interesting...I wonder where (in-game campaign) the storyline will take us and continue?

[sapi]

Looks interesting :yes:

I'm betting on a continued storyline - a new unit being the Protoss 'mothership' is a good hint ~;)

[Rilder]

Looking at the pics and.. meh... tbh it just doesn't look like an RTS i'd look at in a store and say, "ooh this looks cool" in all honesty it just looks like WoW on an RTS, the units have that WoW cartoonlike look, besides I never really gave a **** about Starcraft 1, played it a few hours and enjoyed it I guess, but Star craft 2 is just not a game I want.

[Tran]

In case you didn't notice, there's also a video:

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/850/850126/vids_1.html

[Tran]

http://www.starcraft2.com/

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/790/790130/first-istarcraft-iii-screens-and-images-20070519001402241.jpg

[Kekvit Irae]

And Koreans will STILL be playing the original Star Craft. kekekeke

[The_Doctor]

And Koreans will STILL be playing the original Star Craft.

And dieing, don't forget dieing of Starcraft.:dizzy2:

[Kekvit Irae]

And dieing, don't forget dieing of Starcraft.:dizzy2:

When you are in a professional leagues that limit you to four hours of sleep a day are not the killers (they cook for the gamers), but it is the amateurs that killing themselves. When you have the fastest internet connections in the world, all for $1.50 an hour for the fanciest cyber cafes, it's easy enough to forget the little things... like eating.

[cunctator]

I hope Starcraft 2 will be more than just starcraft with a few new units and a new graphic engine, but that's perhaps exactly what the E-Sports crowd demands.

[Lehesu]

Actually, Starcraft with better graphics and a small amount of game tweaks and a few new wrinkles in gameplay would be perfect. Don't mess with success.

[Kekvit Irae]

Actually, Starcraft with better graphics and a small amount of game tweaks and a few new wrinkles in gameplay would be perfect 7 years ago.

Fixed. :tongueg:
We ARE talking about a game that's nine years old.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

So they add a few units and unit abilities, and give it a Warcraft 3 graphics engine. The only reason I'd buy it would be for the atmosphere/storyline (check out the teaser cinematic, it's pretty awesome) and that's only 5 years later when the price is about $20.

[Abokasee]

http://uk.media.pc.ign.com/media/850/850126/img_4560187.html
Cant see it? click here (http://uk.media.pc.ign.com/media/850/850126/img_4560187.html)

Tactics wont seem to be much different, same old zerg rush, different graphics.

[lars573]

I hope Starcraft 2 will be more than just starcraft with a few new units and a new graphic engine, but that's perhaps exactly what the E-Sports crowd demands.
This is Blizzard we're talking about. New ideas go against company policy.

[Lehesu]

All I am saying, is that I have seen a lot of gimmicky crap aimed at "revolutionizing" the genre when the best, most meaningful changes just streamline or make better the existing pattern. If they can do this to Starcraft without adding gimmicky crap, I will be happy.

However, I am going to go ahead and say that I am already rather iffy about the graphics. Starcraft needs to be grittier.

[sapi]

Yeh - I'd have preferred graphics more along the lines of the concept art (http://games.internode.on.net/filelist.php?screenshots=2278) than what I'm seeing ingame.

Will definitely still buy it though - loved the original :grin2:

[sapi]

Hang on....Hang on!!

From the Inquirer: (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39724)


We left the best thing for the last. Traditionally, Blizzard was always announcing titles years before they will come to life. My first touch with World of WarCraft happened on ECTS in 2001, first touch with Diablo II and its add-on came during E3 and ECTS 2000 and so on. But now, StarCraft II is not being announced year or two prior to release. Blizzard has stated that the company will release this game in October of this year.

[Tran]

Ever heard of the word:

Postpone? ~;p :grin2:

[Kekvit Irae]

Ever heard of the word:

Postpone? ~;p :grin2:

Three words: Duke Nukem Forever.
:tongueg:

[Geoffrey S]

I've never played Starcraft, but this news prompted me to Wikipedia it, and look on Youtube for movies. The story is fascinating, with great characters and the like. And it also makes me disappointed by the cartoonish graphics; the concept art is brilliant, it'd be nice to see that represented ingame.

[Gregoshi]

Well, I'm rather excited about the coming of SC2. I loved the original - in fact, I'm in the middle of replaying all the single player missions. I just finished SC and am ready to move on to Brood War. If the gameplay and storyline are good, I can deal with any misgivings about the graphics. I do like some aspects of the graphic, but other things don't quite look right. It is early though, so I'll withhold any serious judgement later - like when the demo comes out (that's a hint Blizzard).

Regarding "postponed", the point, I think, is that SC2 wasn't announced until was much further along than the other quoted Blizzard games. Even if it is postponed, it is a postponement 6 months from now rather than 2 years hence.

[Monarch]

Well after only coming to pc gaming in the past couple of years I've heard so much about this legendary game, Starcraft. So as soon as I saw SC2 was announced on GameSpot I set about absorbing as much information as possible...I couldn't care less now.

I feel the best RTS on the market is Company of Heroes, RTS should be about tactics, positioning, flanking etc. However in the Q&A session on gamespot Blizzard are actually boasting about (as opposed to WC3) a return to more emphasis on resource management and rushing...the two things I hate in RTS. This is the reason I like CoH, with the machine guns at bases from the start rushing is impossible and the resource system in CoH is brilliant.

This SC2 doesn't bring anything new to the table, heck I don't even think it has destructable environments that makes CoH and the upcoming World In Conflict (which also doesn't have resources as we know and loathe them) so visually brilliant.

The game looks like its for existing SC fans, from what I've seen its not going to win any new fans, heck even AoE 3 Far East Xpack looks better. With WiC and new CoH expansion coming out later this year...this game will struggle, if it wasn't called SC2, and for arguments sake called Warhammer 40k: But Without The Licence (WH40K: TWTL...rolls off ya tongue) I doubt anyone would be second glancing at information about it.

[doc_bean]

Well after only coming to pc gaming in the past couple of years I've heard so much about this legendary game, Starcraft. So as soon as I saw SC2 was announced on GameSpot I set about absorbing as much information as possible...I couldn't care less now.

I feel the best RTS on the market is Company of Heroes, RTS should be about tactics, positioning, flanking etc. However in the Q&A session on gamespot Blizzard are actually boasting about (as opposed to WC3) a return to more emphasis on resource management and rushing...the two things I hate in RTS. This is the reason I like CoH, with the machine guns at bases from the start rushing is impossible and the resource system in CoH is brilliant.

This SC2 doesn't bring anything new to the table, heck I don't even think it has destructable environments that makes CoH and the upcoming World In Conflict (which also doesn't have resources as we know and loathe them) so visually brilliant.

The game looks like its for existing SC fans, from what I've seen its not going to win any new fans, heck even AoE 3 Far East Xpack looks better. With WiC and new CoH expansion coming out later this year...this game will struggle, if it wasn't called SC2, and for arguments sake called Warhammer 40k: But Without The Licence (WH40K: TWTL...rolls off ya tongue) I doubt anyone would be second glancing at information about it.

StarCraft was one of the first games to emphasize 'tactical' gameplay to some degree. But it's ancient by todays standards and has been surpassed by the likes of DoW (incidentally, i believe StarCraft was originally intended to be a warhammer 40K game).

[Ironside]

Well after only coming to pc gaming in the past couple of years I've heard so much about this legendary game, Starcraft. So as soon as I saw SC2 was announced on GameSpot I set about absorbing as much information as possible...I couldn't care less now.

I feel the best RTS on the market is Company of Heroes, RTS should be about tactics, positioning, flanking etc. However in the Q&A session on gamespot Blizzard are actually boasting about (as opposed to WC3) a return to more emphasis on resource management and rushing...the two things I hate in RTS. This is the reason I like CoH, with the machine guns at bases from the start rushing is impossible and the resource system in CoH is brilliant.

This SC2 doesn't bring anything new to the table, heck I don't even think it has destructable environments that makes CoH and the upcoming World In Conflict (which also doesn't have resources as we know and loathe them) so visually brilliant.


Games doesn't usually age well with time, their ideas will get stolen and improved.

What made Starcraft truely brilliant at it's time was that it had 3 very different races, that they were balanced, that all units never became obsolete and one of the better stories to wrap it in. It still holds it own today though, and worth buying if you haven't tried it out yet. No rushing in SP, but acuiring new resources is vital though.

Basically the economical stuff is to find a good optimum of workers (2/crystal tops iirc, 3 for the gas plant on shortest distance), protect them, acuire new resources and churn out the correct mixture of troops (depends on what you plans and what the opponent got).
Early rushing is there though, mostly to counter teching.

FYI the static defences are much, much stronger in SC than in WCIII. To prove it, I'll ask Gregoshi to not use static defences in the campaign :laugh4: .
When you hear the thud of Gregoshi fainting you'll know that he red this :beam:

I'm very pleased to hear about this BTW, they might even do something with the Umojan who certainly looks like a cut thread (although it wouldn't surprice me if Reynor got sopme connections there).

[Lehesu]

It is interesting that so many loathe resource gathering in games when the root of much conflict comes from the existence of limited resources.

[TevashSzat]

Wow, it has been finally made. Now everyone pray for Diablo III:beam:

[Gregoshi]

FYI the static defences are much, much stronger in SC than in WCIII. To prove it, I'll ask Gregoshi to not use static defences in the campaign :laugh4: .

:fainting:Thud...

There are a few factors that made SC such a great game. First, as Ironside mentioned, was the unique races. Second was the balance. When I played online, I never had issue with playing any of the races. Third was the rock-paper-scissors nature of the units. In this, SC shared the same feature that still endears many of us to STW. Fourth, if you were into single player games, it had a great storyline. I remember feeling the outrage regarding Kerrigan near the end of the Terran campaign and I'm still a little broken up about Tassadar. Fifth, online play was pretty fun. I only ever played with friends and all of us were turtling experts, so rushing was a non-issue for us. Even if SC2 doesn't bring any major revolutionary gameplay to the table, as long as it has the strong genes of its predecessor, I think it will be a pretty good game. Asking for a phenomenal repeat of SC's success might be asking too much, but Blizzard does have a knack for doing so.

Excellent point about the resources Lehesu.

[Ironside]

It is interesting that so many loathe resource gathering in games when the root of much conflict comes from the existence of limited resources.

And one of the primal principles of warfare is to have your troops well equiped and well fed, while denying the enemy the same...

[Kekvit Irae]

And one of the primal principles of warfare is to have your troops well equiped and well fed, while denying the enemy the same...

Is one of the principles to build tanks, train fresh troops, and have miners work on the frontlines? I think not. :tongueg:

[Meneldil]

Well, I prefer(ed) Warcraft over Stracraft (that is, until Blizzard butchered the background with WoW), but I sure am awaiting this game, if only to know what will be happening to the characters.

Are the Protoss going to escape total extinction ?
Are the Terran willing to side with Earth ?
Who is that weird dude that betrayed the Earth Expeditionnary Force, before betraying Kerrigan ? Is he really trying to create a new race based on both Protoss and Zergs ?
Is Raynor going to marry Kerrigan, despite her serious lack of hygiena ?

I'm fairly sure Blizzard will soon announce one or more new races being involved.

Edit : And it's quite obvious that units and buildings look the same as they did in Starcraft. The game will likely take place a few year after Starcraft. I don't see why Terran design would change suddenly.

[Lehesu]

Is one of the principles to build tanks, train fresh troops, and have miners work on the frontlines? I think not. :tongueg:
When you compress warfare into a small map with small units, you have to compress resources in there as well. This just has to be accepted, although the implementation of this compression can make-or-break a game. Part of the reason why we like Total War games is that the compression of resource gathering is not as blatant, as the game takes place at a broader scope than most RTS.

[Kekvit Irae]

Well, I prefer(ed) Warcraft over Stracraft (that is, until Blizzard butchered the background with WoW), but I sure am awaiting this game, if only to know what will be happening to the characters.

Are the Protoss going to escape total extinction ?
Are the Terran willing to side with Earth ?
Who is that weird dude that betrayed the Earth Expeditionnary Force, before betraying Kerrigan ? Is he really trying to create a new race based on both Protoss and Zergs ?
Is Raynor going to marry Kerrigan, despite her serious lack of hygiena ?

I'm fairly sure Blizzard will soon announce one or more new races being involved.

Edit : And it's quite obvious that units and buildings look the same as they did in Starcraft. The game will likely take place a few year after Starcraft. I don't see why Terran design would change suddenly.

Play the bonus level in StarCraft: Brood Wars. It has hints at a new race/enemy in the future, the Protoss/Zerg hybrid.

[Lehesu]

I thought that in a recent interview, Blizzard claims that there will only be the three original factions.

[Gregoshi]

Lehesu, though I've heard the rumours about a forth race, you are correct about the races. According to the Blizzard Q&A session regarding the SC2 (on Gamespot):



The panel also confirmed that the sequel will have only the three factions of the Protoss, Terrans, and Zerg; there will be no fourth faction.


Regarding resources:



To address another question, the panel suggested that the resource management system in the sequel will feature "some enhancements, but it will still be very similar to the resource management in Starcraft, and just as important."


Regarding old SC characters appearing in SC2:



Given that the trailers shown at this morning's presentation featured cameo appearances from key Starcraft characters like Zeratul, Jim Raynor, and Kerrigan, creative development VP Chris Metzen confirmed that those three characters will definitely appear in the game.


If interested, here is the full article (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171172.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1)

[sapi]

Well after only coming to pc gaming in the past couple of years I've heard so much about this legendary game, Starcraft. So as soon as I saw SC2 was announced on GameSpot I set about absorbing as much information as possible...I couldn't care less now.

I feel the best RTS on the market is Company of Heroes, RTS should be about tactics, positioning, flanking etc. However in the Q&A session on gamespot Blizzard are actually boasting about (as opposed to WC3) a return to more emphasis on resource management and rushing...the two things I hate in RTS. This is the reason I like CoH, with the machine guns at bases from the start rushing is impossible and the resource system in CoH is brilliant.

This SC2 doesn't bring anything new to the table, heck I don't even think it has destructable environments that makes CoH and the upcoming World In Conflict (which also doesn't have resources as we know and loathe them) so visually brilliant.

The game looks like its for existing SC fans, from what I've seen its not going to win any new fans, heck even AoE 3 Far East Xpack looks better. With WiC and new CoH expansion coming out later this year...this game will struggle, if it wasn't called SC2, and for arguments sake called Warhammer 40k: But Without The Licence (WH40K: TWTL...rolls off ya tongue) I doubt anyone would be second glancing at information about it.Well, it's really up to you.

Personally, I detest the 'resource management' in CoH and DoW (written like that because I don't want to stain the good name of such ideas by listing what currently exists in those leagues).

Running around capping static points on maps far too big for their intended purpose just ain't fun, IMO.

In SC, though, resources were vitally important. It took some time to build up enough units to fully capitalise on a mineral field, and as such it was a viable strategy to strike at such fields in order to delay the enemy, and it was equally important to defend them.

In games such as CoH, where you can get back to full use of a resource point in thirty seconds, the onus to do so simply isn't there.

It may just be a difference in play style, but it's an important one for me.

[TevashSzat]

These new RTS games like CoH or Dawn of War seems vastly superior to the old Starcraft/Command and Conquer style, but trust me the original game was so awsome and still is because of how polished it was. It might not seem like that good, but just play the old one and you will get hooked in no time.

[sapi]

Yes, that's the biggest thing that SC has going for it - balance.

Every strategy has a counter, as does every counter-strategy :grin2:

It all comes down to who's the better player, not who has the better units...

[Kekvit Irae]

Yes, that's the biggest thing that SC has going for it - balance.

Every strategy has a counter, as does every counter-strategy :grin2:

It all comes down to who's the better player, not who has the better units...

Except that there's no defense against a wired-up Korean zergrushing you. kekeke

[Abokasee]

With a little luck they'll add a new race most likely xel'naga or hybrid (Of all the races?)


Originally Posted by sapi
Yes, that's the biggest thing that SC has going for it - balance.

Every strategy has a counter, as does every counter-strategy

It all comes down to who's the better player, not who has the better units...


Except that there's no defense against a wired-up Korean zergrushing you. kekeke

Or 25+ Protoss carriers with full fighters

~EDIT~

Some video links from IGN of gameplay and cinematic (http://uk.media.pc.ign.com/media/850/850126/vids_1.html)

I lol'ed when I heard "Hell its about time" from a terrain marine

[Ironside]

Or 25+ Protoss carriers with full fighters


Well 2 vs 1 is usually hard in any game :laugh4:, but battlecruisers+wrights and a science vessel + ghosts for style or to counter that nasty arbiter for terran, scouts + dragoons and arbiter+a lucky high templar or 2, or 25 dark archons for pure evil for protoss and a devourer + mutalisk flood and defiler and scourges (after the mutalisks has engaged) for extra flavour for the zerg.

The hard part is to catch that they're spamming carriers in time to get enough counters.

[TevashSzat]

Or 25+ Protoss carriers with full fighters


The counter is people won't let you build up that much. If it was a team game either your allies will be long dead by then or you will be harrassed to the point where your huge carrier army will take forever to build. If everyone is techiing then carriers will be no good anyways seeing as how Battlecruisers + Science Vessel owns Carriers + Arbiters.

[Spino]

SC2... meh. When I played SC I completed the Terran campaign and most of the Zerg campaign and got so bored I proceeded to cheat my way through the rest of the game just so I could see all the cutscenes. I tried my hand at Brood Wars and thought was better done in terms of mission design but it was still pretty dull and I wound up using the cheats just so I could see its cutscenes as well. In the end I was so glad I borrowed SC and Brood Wars from a friend and didn't spend my own money on it. For me the high points of those games were the Terran campaigns and those glorious cutscenes.

Anyway all this SC2 hype does is heighten my anticipation for Dawn of War 2. Relic's Homeworld, Dawn of War and Company of Heroes series are the only 'traditional' RTS games I can tolerate and the only ones that seem to hold my interest sufficiently enough that I feel compelled to complete them without cheating. Relic's cutscenes positively pale in comparison to Blizzard's but I feel their gameplay and unit variety is far more interesting and fun.

I supposed i'll just bug that same friend for his copy of SC2 because I'm absolutely certain its cutscenes are going to be even more fun than the original's. SC2's cinematic trailer has already given us a taste of what to expect, it's simply fantastic.

[TevashSzat]

People, RTS games are not known for their longevity due to awesome single player campaigns but for the online community and the diversity of maps that one can have with online

[Marshal Murat]

I loved the youtube comments.

"If only I would live to see Starcraft 2"

[ElectricEel]

SC2... meh. When I played SC I completed the Terran campaign and most of the Zerg campaign and got so bored I proceeded to cheat my way through the rest of the game just so I could see all the cutscenes. I tried my hand at Brood Wars and thought was better done in terms of mission design but it was still pretty dull and I wound up using the cheats just so I could see its cutscenes as well. ... For me the high points of those games were the Terran campaigns and those glorious cutscenes. My sentiments exactly. Starcraft was a highly polished and balanced game, but in the end, I just don't find the gameplay in this type of RTS games very interesting.

[sapi]

Well, since SC was the first RTS I played, my opinion on it's a bit biased.

Amazing that I put up with playing it on N64 though :grin2:

[Tran]

Except that there's no defense against a wired-up Korean zergrushing you. kekeke
You mean this?

https://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6909/misczergrushtr8.jpg

[Kekvit Irae]

https://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g83/mr_wizard_album/ZergRush.jpg

[sapi]

:laugh4:

There are counters to a zerg rush, though, if you know it's coming ~;)

[Meneldil]

Hilarious

[Komutan]

SC2... meh. When I played SC I completed the Terran campaign and most of the Zerg campaign and got so bored I proceeded to cheat my way through the rest of the game just so I could see all the cutscenes. I tried my hand at Brood Wars and thought was better done in terms of mission design but it was still pretty dull and I wound up using the cheats just so I could see its cutscenes as well. In the end I was so glad I borrowed SC and Brood Wars from a friend and didn't spend my own money on it. For me the high points of those games were the Terran campaigns and those glorious cutscenes.




What made Starcraft such a big success is the multiplayer part. The campaign was nothing exceptional.

In fact, I can tell that for most of the RTS games. To truly enjoy them, you have to play them in multiplayer mode.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Zerg rush? GET TO THE BUNKERS!

[Gregoshi]

Pah! Rushing is for the technology challenged. My friends and I were turtlers extrordinair! We could tech up as much as we wanted. One 2v2 game, in fact, developed into a World War I style blood bath that lasted nearly 2 hours. Both sides exhausted their resources and then their units. Things were so desperate we even had an SCV vs Probe battle. The second hour was mostly a waste of time because my partner and I wouldn't say "draw". We played sniper: my observer would find targets for his queen to broodling. :laugh4: It was great fun. Alas, we eventually came to our senses and declared a draw after the enemy Terran floated his buildings out over water where we could no longer attack them. Stupid floating buildings. :laugh4:

[darkragnar]

^Then u must be playing the Imperial Guard in Dawn of War , if you like WWI style tactics.

[Blodrast]

Weeell, I held back from the initial impulse I had to post in this thread in the beginning, and it's prolly better that I did so.
I'm not sure why there are so many negative/pessimistic posts for the first part of the thread. I think we'd all have to admit Blizzard know what they're doing, and they've had absolutely smashing success with their games. No need to remind you how many people still play SC (and we're not even counting South Korea ~D), just check out the Diablo 2 players on bnet (over half a million last I checked) - and we're talking games that are 7 and 10 years old here...
As for WoW, it's by far the most successful MMO - that's gotta mean something (although I never played it, and I don't intend to).

As already mentioned, SC had (has) some excellent features: great balance, significantly different races, even the storyline (I, for one, really liked it). And I hugely enjoyed the campaigns.
There's excellent humor in their games, too, and the cinematics are nothing short of brilliant. The ones from SC and Diablo2 are by far, by far the best cinematics I've ever seen in any game. Bar none. The SC are generally humorous, and the D2 ones are surprisingly creepy/suspense-inducing. Achieving that with a 3-minute clip is amazing, imo.

Having seen the screenshots, I'm not overly excited at the new graphics. A bit over the board for my taste, but perhaps it just takes some getting used to.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as the balance is as good as in SC1, and they maintain a decent storyline, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

However, do keep in mind that this is a significantly different team than the one that designed the original SC and/or D2. A lot of those folks left Blizzard (North), so we'll see how big of an impact that has on the quality of the games.

[Abokasee]

https://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g83/mr_wizard_album/ZergRush.jpg


DAM BEAT ME TO IT!!!

[Navaros]

These new RTS games like CoH or Dawn of War seems vastly superior to the old Starcraft/Command and Conquer style

I strongly disagree with this. The Dawn of War hype advertised it as "revolutionizing RTS games with it's resource collection system". But it didn't. Going around having to cap points all over the map, then having to manually micro a peon worker around to each of those points, and keep watching them like a hawk constantly simply so you are able to start building on them right when enough of the resources become available, is an extremely cumbersome, wearing, and worst of all, vastly unfun gameplay mechanic. The aggravation of which is compounded immensely once one has under his belt hundreds of games of putting up with this agony anew each time a new game starts.

The old style of "build resource collectors and let them collect" whilst you focus on building a base, army, and microing the combat units of said army, is a much superior design.

[Lehesu]

Well, that's certainly an opinion that you are entitled to. I, however, find that resourece "points" create a context to the conflict. In real warfare, certain areas become of great tactical or strategic importance for a variety of reasons. Most RTS fail to convey this. The resource system in CoH and DoW makes certain points of the map valuable and focuses the combat at those points. Thus, you have dramatic moments like holding of an enemy attack in a town square, kinds of situations that normally happen in warfare but don't happen in games unless the resource system dictates it.

[Grey_Fox]

Fights over resource patches develop all the time in RTS games. An enemy might have laid claim to it and you have to take it over, or he's sent troops to kill your miner and you have to beat them off and the like, from games such as C&C to Homeworld.

CoH is the same thing wrapped up differently - you don't harvest resources to buy troops and buildings, you just get 'points' which allow you to get more troops.

[Komutan]

I strongly disagree with this. The Dawn of War hype advertised it as "revolutionizing RTS games with it's resource collection system". But it didn't. Going around having to cap points all over the map, then having to manually micro a peon worker around to each of those points, and keep watching them like a hawk constantly simply so you are able to start building on them right when enough of the resources become available, is an extremely cumbersome, wearing, and worst of all, vastly unfun gameplay mechanic.


But you have to do this and more in old style RTS games too. You have to constantly build workers, take expansions and watch them against any attacks(such as a a reaver drop in the midddle of your workers).

The DOW style games take out just the "building workers"part. And as a result you can concentrate on your army and battle more.

[sapi]

How can DoW and CoH be considered 'revolutionary' when they had #*#*#*#* restrictions on where you could build your base that could never be changed!?

[Navaros]

But you have to do this and more in old style RTS games too. You have to constantly build workers, take expansions and watch them against any attacks(such as a a reaver drop in the midddle of your workers).

The DoW style games take out just the "building workers"part. And as a result you can concentrate on your army and battle more.

You definitely do have to build peon workers in DoW and micro them to every freakin' point on the map and constantly be babysitting them. Building and microing workers in DoW is probably the most cumbersome and aggravating worker gameplay RTS mechanic ever designed. True that in "old style" RTS'es you have to defend your workers, no doubt. But you get to do that that via microing combat-effective units to defend them instead of spending much of your time microing the workers themselves.

The difference is in old style RTS games you dont have to manually micro your workers all across the map constantly and then do nothing but waiting and watching them (feels like watching grass grow!) til your resource income hits the specified number to fortify a resource point; when you can then start building with that worker. Only to then have to repeat the whole process again several times per game --- like you do in DoW. And of course if you need "new" workers in DoW because the one you had ready got killed, you have to micro the new ones starting from way back at your central base. Whereas in old style RTS games getting a new worker from the base to resources is not so much of a pain since they are much more closeby. DoW is the RTS King of constant, necessary peon worker micro-mangement. Which detracts a lot from and sucks away a ton of legitmate, fun gameplay time that could have come from micro-managing combat-effective units.

Of course, it seemed among the majority of DoW players they set their games with unlimited resources right off the bat and therefore bypassed all those annoyances - and the entire "resource collection & being limited by the resources you have" aspect of the game. Which of course, were not the settings that game was designed around or balanced for. I would think the annoying "constantly micro a peon worker to every point on the map in DoW" gameplay was a factor in determining that preference among most players.

I am curious how the other DoW players in this thread found microing the peon workers in the described ways to be fun?

Also agree that holding critical points is vital to every RTS, DoW was no different and didn't bring anything new to the table whatsoever in this regard.

[doc_bean]

I've got to agree with Navaros here, the main weakness of DOW is building listening posts, they should be entirely optional imo, and not grant additional resources, just defense.

[Crandaeolon]

I also agree that the DoW/CoH style resource gathering mechanic is a bit contrived, and especially in DoW the building and managing of listening posts gets old real fast. CoH is better in this regard, you actually need to prioritise - more listening posts is not always better, since manpower comes in at a much more constant rate than in DoW. And thankfully there's no need to upgrade your listening posts constantly.

CoH's basebuilding is nicely streamlined, and that's a good thing in my opinion. Extensive basebuilding is not a very good mechanic in terrain-grabbing/skirmish games. The more strategic gameplay of TA/SupCom accommodates basebuilding better, since you can have very powerful base defenses without degenerating to turtling too much.

And what's this about not micromanaging workers in Starcraft? Pretty much all base and resource management takes a lot of microing, and the "waiting to get resources to build more" -bit is definitely not absent in SC, quite the opposite actually. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing though, it's effective use of your "attention" resource. ~;p

[Komutan]

Lets say you are playing Protosss in Starcraft.

For each fully functional expansion base:

1- You send a worker to the spot to build a nexus and wait for the nexus to finish before you can start producing workers there.

2- You build an assimilator and a few photon cannons and pylons.

3- You make around 20 workers(assuming it is a standart resource spot) and send each of them to work yourself(giving resource nodes as rally points does not work in SC).

4- You constantly watch your expansions against an attack that can't be handled by your few defensive structures.

Now, how is this less micro intensive than sending your workers(of which you can't have more than 4) to make a single listening post on each resource point in DOW and COH? Mind you, the captured points generate resources even without building a listening post on them. The function of workers in COH/DOW is building, not resource collecting.

[sapi]

Less micro? You're building a base, in your example! In DoW/CoH, you've got to do that much work to secure the equivalent of a single mineral point...


The function of workers in COH/DOW is building, not resource collecting.Why, then, are there arbitary limits on base location?

[TinCow]

I think both the SC/C&C style resource collecting system and the DoW/CoH system are interesting and worth more exploration by the games industry. My main problem with the DoW system was that it was impossible to defend every point at once and enemies could simply bypass any point they wanted and capture and use one in your rear. CoH was a huge improvement on this flaw, IMO, because it really requires you to take territory in a logical and continuous fashion, if you actually want to keep it. This is far more realistic than the rush to see who has the most efficient build technique.

In addition, I really dislike the limited resources aspect of the SC/C&C system. Finite resources only encourage the rush strategy, which is one of the most pointless and least fun methods of game playing out there. Who wants to play a game of Risk where the game is won or lost by a first turn blitz? Ug...

Unlimited resources that require strategic defense and attack decisions, combined with tactical placement of units and structures, is the best way to achieve a truly exciting strategy game. If there's one thing the DoW/CoH system has show us, it is that there is plenty of room for new ideas on how to approach RTS mechanics. Hopefully development will continue to innovate, even if the innovations are not always in the right direction.

[Tran]

Rise of Nations is the best, no doubt about it :bow:

[Motep]

Hmm...I might actually like this one...

[phred]

I enjoyed the Battle Realms system of resource gathering. You had two infinite resources: rice and water - and you told your peasants to collect rice or collect water, and you could also tell them to water the rice to make it grow back faster.
You could also automate the training of units, which was the biggest plus of their system. If I'm micromanaging a battle, I don't want to have keep going back to the base, clicking on a building, and then clicking on a train unit icon.

I haven't played DoW or CoH so I don't know how those compare.

[TevashSzat]

Having unlimited resource access however helps to turtle alot better. Granted, if you are turtling, your enemies will probably have higher resource collection rates, but you have no fear of having resources run out. The SC and C&C style makes it harder for turtlers since you must expand by mid game or you will be out of resources hence encouraging battles out in the land instead of just having one player siege the other's main base as the besieged player frantically stalls as they get out an uber army

[TinCow]

I don't think the best way to deter turtling is through resource management though. I think that could be accomplished by changing gameplay in other ways.

[sapi]

While we're on systems of resource gathering, I think that Supreme Commander's got it just about right. Both resources - mass and power - can be generated anywhere on the map, as long as you have the infrastructure. However, capturing mass points is critical in the early game, as they take far less power (1 power unit per mass unit rather than 40 for the stand alone ones).

Add in synergies with buildings (construction cost is reduced when you're near resources; shields take less to power etc) and it's pretty well balanced for both offender and defender...

[Komutan]

Why, then, are there arbitary limits on base location?

Why are there arbitrary limits on the range or damage of a unit?

Limiting things serves to add strategical depth to a game.

In DOW/COH, production times are relatively fast, so you don't need to make more than one building of a type to produce your army anyway(in SC I sometimes built 16 gateways). So the only thing the location of your buildings effects is that your units need some time to reach the front lines. And this brings just another tactical aspect to the game. For example Eldar can teleport their troops, which gives them an advantage. Or in COH, fast light vehicles are very good counters against enemy units harassing your resource nodes.

I think you are taking a wrong approach to DOW/COH. They are not about building bases, but about controlling your army.

[Lehesu]

Don't most skirmish games start you off with a pre-set HQ building equivalent? I don't see CoH any more restrictive in this sense, especially since the maps are generally too small and packed with stuff (an advantage over other RTS, right there) to fit a base anywhere else.

[sapi]

I think you are taking a wrong approach to DOW/COH. They are not about building bases, but about controlling your army.That may be so, but I find it immensely frustrating not to be able to set up defences where I want, and operate from the best location possible, simply because the game decides that that's not where my HQ is and thus I wouldn't have 'supply lines'. Never mind that I had the supply drop ability :laugh4:

[darkragnar]

That may be so, but I find it immensely frustrating not to be able to set up defences where I want, and operate from the best location possible, simply because the game decides that that's not where my HQ is and thus I wouldn't have 'supply lines'. Never mind that I had the supply drop ability :laugh4:

That might be true for CoH ,dont know , but i dont know if you've played DoW recently because u can place turrents anywhere you want in the map , and im pretty sure you can place Imperial Guard Barracks/Bunkers also anywhere in the map.

Dow is a Revolutionary game , its suppose to be a RTS with minimal unit dynamics , other than shoot, move die and standing , but in DoW every single unit in a squad feels like its alive with its range of animations plus the Close Combat Dynamics are also excellent and they havnt been implimented like that in anygame where each unit has a variety of finishing moves and such.
https://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9708/relic00085kt5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Plus the details spent on each unit is just amazing to behold, i could easily just watch the game play by it self and imagine it being part of a Hollywood movie with all the stuff thats going on, the developers even went to the extent of putting facial features into Human units/ala Imperial Guard , u can just watch them die and see the pain on written on there face.

And that's the sort of thing u expect form a FPS not from an RTS with 100's of units on screen.

[sapi]

Yeah - DoW wasn't *that* bad - if it had had a half decent campaign (in the original) and a MP mode not 3/4 filled with scout rushing, I might have persevered :grin2:

[Tran]

Hmm...

**looking at the picture**

Why did those guys shoot at each others?

[darkragnar]

Yeah - DoW wasn't *that* bad - if it had had a half decent campaign (in the original) and a MP mode not 3/4 filled with scout rushing, I might have persevered :grin2:

things have change a lot since that time, in fact things started to change with the first couple of patches back 2 years ago mate scout rushes have been crubbed a long long time back.

Im assuming you havnt played Dark Crusade because you wound harbor such a view against dawn of war..the campaign is fantastic they turned it into a total war style Campaign map with 7 Completely different army's duking it out on 1 planet , the balancing is pretty much perfect for some people now, though not for a Space Marine player like me, bums have toned down the space marines too much in my opinion , but other than that its all ok.


Hmm...

**looking at the picture**

Why did those guys shoot at each others?

The Guys on the Left Are Loyal Imperial Guards and the ones on the right are Traitor Guardsmen (...well there mostly on the right,...big melee and all) the 24th Kronos Liberators regiment are the Loyal IG's while the 101th Vandalonian Liberators have tunred traitor and shunned the Emepeors light opting to fight along side vile Orks and ..may the emperor curse them...Chaos Space Marines.

My Guys the Loyal Guardsmen are bringing holy retribution to these traitorous scums.

Once the two regiments were the same but one cannot imagine the thought of these traitors as our brothers;so thats why the similarity's in equipment and clothing.



Or Alternatively I accidentally choose the same color scheme for the enemy imperial guards as my own side...it was a 3v3 battle with IG,Space Marine, Space Marine on my side and Ork,Imperial Guard and Chaos Space Marines on the other. Im not sure if you can see this but the enemy imperial guards have the 101th , there regiment number, on there shoulder , while my guys have the 24th written on theirs.
https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/286/relic00058cx4.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

This Screen shot was taken just before battle was joined.
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/200/relic00084te7.th.jpg (https://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relic00084te7.jpg)

[Tran]

Hmm...looking at those pictures for a while make me think whether the game was influenced by Warcraft 3. They both looked similiar.

[darkragnar]

Hmm...looking at those pictures for a while make me think whether the game was influenced by Warcraft 3. They both looked similiar.

Ah...mate the Warhammer universe has been around for 20 years now and its set in the year 40,000. While you can roughly compare the Warhammer (note the absence of 40,000; thats a whole other universe filled with Fantasy creatures like dwarfs ,ORK's, Elves etc etc u get the picture) universe with warcraft but thats because Blizzard wanted to Do a Warhammer game but they didnt get permission from the Creators of the Warhammer universe so they did there own spin on that universe, same with Starcraft they wanted to make a game based on the 40k universe but they didnt get permission again so they created their starcraft IP, Blizzard acknowledges that they borrowed certain concepts from the WH40k universe, like the Zergs , they are a spin off of the Tyranids from the WH40k universe, and the Terran Marines power armor is a bit like 40k's Space Marines.
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9157/relic01932vu5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
So infact you should be saying Warcraft 3 looks influenced by Warhammer, althought i cannot imaigne how DoW and WH40K look like warcraft 3.

[sapi]

Quite a few of the race thingies are similar between 40k and WC3, to be sure :yes:

@darkranger - please use [ex] tags to hide images - those are almost stretching my screen so I shudder to think what they're doing to others :grin2:

[doc_bean]

things have change a lot since that time, in fact things started to change with the first couple of patches back 2 years ago mate scout rushes have been crubbed a long long time back.


I'm not sure I like the constant rebalancing though. The unit caps (on a type of unit) feel too restrictive and added just for balance instead of making balance come 'natural'. I don't care for the new version fo infiltration either, it makes those with early infiltration (Tau) too powerful since their recon units can hit anything without fear of retalliation.
And the chaos marines still suck against vehicles.




Im assuming you havnt played Dark Crusade because you wound harbor such a view against dawn of war..the campaign is fantastic they turned it into a total war style Campaign map with 7 Completely different army's duking it out on 1 planet , the balancing is pretty much perfect for some people now, though not for a Space Marine player like me, bums have toned down the space marines too much in my opinion , but other than that its all ok.


I've started a few campaigns and certainly the early missions feel too easy. The strategic layer is a nice touch, but nothing like STW/MTW offered. Still, I believe this kind of campaign is the way forward for DoW (and CoH ?).

[TB666]

That may be so, but I find it immensely frustrating not to be able to set up defences where I want, and operate from the best location possible, simply because the game decides that that's not where my HQ is and thus I wouldn't have 'supply lines'. Never mind that I had the supply drop ability :laugh4:
Well I think all defensive buildings you can build anywhere as long as you control the area.
Base buildings however require the HQ nearby.

[doc_bean]

Some starcraft 2 footage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30MBljXxg3M&eurl=http://www.blizzplanet.com/news/1440/)

All I can say is it looks 'nice'. I fear this game game is just going to be a graphical update of an arguably outdated game.

EDIT: after tseeing this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJDFw4TGWmo&mode=related&search=) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TR7nGISEfc&mode=related&search=) the game might prove to be interesting after all.

[TevashSzat]

After watching some youtube videos about starcraft 2, I noticed that the SC2 version of the photon cannon seem to be able to teleport around the base making it essentially a mobile defender. That seems like it is a rather poor ability in terms of balance as it allows turtlers to concentrate his defences in any area of their base that is being attacked and reducing most damage unless their opponents does a massive assault on multiple sites around the base.

[doc_bean]

After watching some youtube videos about starcraft 2, I noticed that the SC2 version of the photon cannon seem to be able to teleport around the base making it essentially a mobile defender. That seems like it is a rather poor ability in terms of balance as it allows turtlers to concentrate his defences in any area of their base that is being attacked and reducing most damage unless their opponents does a massive assault on multiple sites around the base.

Some untis (well only Protos units so far) are able to teleport or have teleport-like abilities (jump packs !) so this would balance out I guess.

[TevashSzat]

I know that, but from a story viewpoint, I can only see the protoss being able to move their stationary defences which would instantly turn them into more of a turtling race.

[sapi]

I know that, but from a story viewpoint, I can only see the protoss being able to move their stationary defences which would instantly turn them into more of a turtling race.
Well, story wise, isn't that because they've kinda been forced to turtle while running by constant invasions? ~;)


Some untis (well only Protos units so far) are able to teleport or have teleport-like abilities (jump packs !) so this would balance out I guess.Makes the protoss better? I'm all for it :grin2:

[LeftEyeNine]

Now that there are only 3-4 days to the release, isn't it about time we've revived this thread ?

You can start downloading now and activate the game when it's officially released, Starcraft2.com says. Battle.net account required to do so.

Edit: They also announce that the digital activation date is slightly later than that for the boxed version.

[Krusader]

My Collectors Edition should be shipped today. That is unless Activision threatens the retailer I ordered from some more. Rumour mill (guildmate in my brother's WoW guild who works at retailer) says Activision sent a letter stating that all SC2 retail copies should be sent out the 27th, not a second before. Otherwise said retailer would not be allowed to sell Cataclysm and Diablo 3. Funnily enough, I've seen enough adverts for buying Starcraft 2 digital download, directly from (Activision) Blizzard and which can be pre-loaded. Luckily the retailer I ordered my CEs from will still be sending them today, as every other game retailer in Norway is doing the same.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

They also aren't sending out review copies to reviewers, which seems like a questionable move. Not that any review was going to affect sales, of course.

[Meneldil]

That's not true. My magazine got its copy two days ago.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Sorry, I mis-typed. They won't allow reviews to be posted before launch. (Still questionable in my book)

sauce (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/07/23/no-starcraft-2-reviews-before-lunch/)

[Meneldil]

Now we can agree. It's more than questionable indeed, but barely surprising. What I wonder now, is what would happen if they just posted a news stating that they're not going to review SC2 because Blizzard didn't allow them to.
I'm pretty sure it would create quite some outrage among the readers.

[LeftEyeNine]

Finished downloading the installer (~7 GBs) which says you can't do anything before 27th of the month.

[LeftEyeNine]

Just purchased an EU region key for Starcraft 2 via gamersloot.net without any problems and activated it over BNet.

I'm not a Starcraft pro, not a fan at all, however, I'd like to be a part of some Tworg-ish community if we could found one.

[pevergreen]

I'm waiting on verdict from friends on possibilities of custom maps and bnet 2.0.

I also play on an iniviation only australian PVPGN for Warcraft 3, so if that starts to support SC2, I'll be more likely to play.

[Beskar]

Tactics wont seem to be much different, same old zerg rush, different graphics.

Definitely not the case. They filled the map full of "n00b protection" which basically screws over Zerg and buffs Terrans. I have to try to break through 10000 'rocks' to get near the terran base (packed full of supply depots) while they just jetpack in mine.

[LeftEyeNine]

Frickin' entertaining so far. I never felt it was already midnight having played a couple of campaign missions.

Awesome graphics, btw.

[Ice]

Game is awesome. I never knew that single player would have so many more units than multiplayer. I have to say that the firebat is easily my favorite unit after the reinforced armor and upped flame throwers.

"mmm smells like victory". I'm about 10 missions through and love it!

To all who read this thread, PLEASE BUY THIS GAME.

[TinCow]

I haven't had much time to play yet, but HOLY :daisy: this is the most polished game I've ever seen. There are so many little features and details everywhere, that it's hard to believe this game is real. It feels like Blizzard finished the actual game about 4 years ago and spent every single day since then adding on extra bells and whistles to make it even more detailed and entertaining. This is the exact opposite of a game that has been rushed out the door. This feels like a game that had absolutely no release deadline and was simply worked on until it was finished in every possible way. This is the epitome of a focus on quality above all else. I am amazed at how solid this game feels. It could well be the single most 'complete' game OOB that there has ever been. (Keeping in mind I'm about 5-6 missions through the SP campaign.)

[LeftEyeNine]

Counting every other minute for the work hours to finish. Harg harg harg.

[Scienter]

I've only played 2 missions so far, but they were awesome. It sucks that I'm at work, I'd much rather go home and play. *grump*

[pevergreen]

I haven't had much time to play yet, but HOLY :daisy: this is the most polished game I've ever seen. There are so many little features and details everywhere, that it's hard to believe this game is real. It feels like Blizzard finished the actual game about 4 years ago and spent every single day since then adding on extra bells and whistles to make it even more detailed and entertaining. This is the exact opposite of a game that has been rushed out the door. This feels like a game that had absolutely no release deadline and was simply worked on until it was finished in every possible way. This is the epitome of a focus on quality above all else. I am amazed at how solid this game feels. It could well be the single most 'complete' game OOB that there has ever been. (Keeping in mind I'm about 5-6 missions through the SP campaign.)

IMO this is a trademark of Blizzard. They'll release it when its good enough to be released.

Apparently theres a Raiden-esque game in the rpg area (unit upgrades, talk to people etc) called The Lost Viking. :laugh4:

*Pulls out his Lost Vikings floppy disks*

[Meneldil]

IMO this is a trademark of Blizzard. They'll release it when its good enough to be released.

Apparently theres a Raiden-esque game in the rpg area (unit upgrades, talk to people etc) called The Lost Viking. :laugh4:

*Pulls out his Lost Vikings floppy disks*

At the risk of sounding yet again like a WoW fanboy, there's a reason why WoW is a huge success when most other MMO's just fall into oblivion. I dislike many of Blizzard's policies, but their games are just on a different level.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I was going to say something like "I can't wait until it's on sale on Steam" but apparently it's not on Steam at all. >:|

[Beskar]

I doubt it ever will be. Though it doesn't really need to be. Blizzard has one of the best support and you can download your games at any time from Battle.net.

The only people which would benefit with Blizzard on Steam is Steam.

Anyone seen all the Easter Eggs yet? though some are pretty obvious, like the Dancing Night Elf in the Cantina. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftC_0Y9npKU)

[Meneldil]

There's no point in putting SC2 on Steam when Blizzard has its own distribution plateform. It'd be like handing free money to Valve.

[pevergreen]

I don't think I'll buy a Blizzard game until Warcraft 4.

Uncle Lothar wants you!

[Ice]

The ending pissed me off... kind of.


I really wanted to see Raynor or anyone really put in a bullet in Kerrigan's head. That evil b**** is responsible for so much misery. In addition, I kind of liked Thycus, the meathead, and wanted to see him live. I do realize though that keeping her alive was smart because the game basically tells you that she will be able to stop the end of the world.

Good game though.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I doubt it ever will be. Though it doesn't really need to be. Blizzard has one of the best support and you can download your games at any time from Battle.net.

The only people which would benefit with Blizzard on Steam is Steam.

Anyone seen all the Easter Eggs yet? though some are pretty obvious, like the Dancing Night Elf in the Cantina. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftC_0Y9npKU)


There's no point in putting SC2 on Steam when Blizzard has its own distribution plateform. It'd be like handing free money to Valve.

Yeah but will Blizzard ever discount SC2?

[Gregoshi]

I'm crushed. I thought my machine met the projected minimum specs when I checked a few months ago. It does not. Now I have to figure out how to scrap together some money for a new PC. Oh the pain of it all. :drama1:

[Beskar]

Yeah but will Blizzard ever discount SC2?

Get it off Amazon when it goes cheap.


I'm crushed. I thought my machine met the projected minimum specs when I checked a few months ago. It does not. Now I have to figure out how to scrap together some money for a new PC. Oh the pain of it all. :drama1:

Congratulations on Modship.

[Xiahou]

Looks like a good game, but from what I've read of it's DRM, I'll have to pass. :sweatdrop:

Someone correct me if I got this wrong...
You must be online even for single-player and there is no LAN play? I heard something about an "offline mode" that allows you to play for a few days without signing on before expiring.... :shame:

[Crazed Rabbit]

How long is the campaign? I've heard the single player is only 8 hours or so, which is really short for $60.

CR

[Meneldil]

Looks like a good game, but from what I've read of it's DRM, I'll have to pass. :sweatdrop:

Someone correct me if I got this wrong...
You must be online even for single-player and there is no LAN play? I heard something about an "offline mode" that allows you to play for a few days without signing on before expiring.... :shame:

You have to be online if you want your achievements to be recorded on the bnet servers. If you don't, you can play all the same, except your achievements won't count.

There's no LAN play yes. Sucks :(

[Beskar]

How long is the campaign? I've heard the single player is only 8 hours or so, which is really short for $60.

CR

It is 8 hours if you speed run, knowing exactly what to do and where, in order to get an achievement. Average mission is 30 minutes long and there are about 28-9 of them. Then again, Starcraft has mainly been about the multiplayer. If you include that, depending on how you like the game, you could be playing it for years.

[pevergreen]

LAN play is being implemented in a patch, they've said that.

Finally found out the amount of stuff you can do with Galaxy Editor...if the custom map thing gets going, its going to be huge.

[Xiahou]

LAN play is being implemented in a patch, they've said that.Link? That would fly in the face of everything they've stated on the subject up to this point. I've heard some mutterings about a tournament edition, but nothing that would be available to the public.

[Beskar]

The region lock was disappointing. While I have many European friends, it means I am unable to play a match with any "Worldies".

I can understand the whole "lag" issue, about connecting to random strangers across the globe, but when it is a friend, you don't care about those things as much. They should have region restricted quick matches, etc, while allowing you to play with friends some anywhere in Custom Match types or something.

[pevergreen]

Apparently Asia/Oceania aren't region locked. :laugh4:

Xiahou:

http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/06/24/blizzard-no-professional-lan-version-of-starcraft-ii-but/


However, Blizzard did give this statement concerning StarCraft II and its use in pro tournaments: "We will be addressing StarCraft II tournament functionality in a post launch patch to the game, soon after ship. This patch will include features to address the needs of location-based pro tournaments, but we have not discussed any specifics about tournament support beyond that." So while there may not be LAN support for launch it sounds like Blizzard is trying to create some kind of solution to help with big LAN events.

Ok, maybe my memory was a bit hazy? :sweatdrop:

[Beskar]

Apparently Asia/Oceania aren't region locked. :laugh4:

It is locked to two severs. North America and South East Asia. Mainly due to the problems for English speaking Aussie/New Zealand, who otherwise would only be playing against Korean's, etc, who don't type English and how many Aussies/New Zealanders play on North American servers on WOW.

[LeftEyeNine]

ATI releases a hotfix beta driver set (http://support.amd.com/us/Pages/AMDSupportHub.aspx)that enables you to set AA for Starcraft 2 via Catalyst Control Center.

First time screw-up in campaign: Gathering Terrazine.

[Beskar]

I mainly used Thor's in that mission, but those Protoss beamy cannons were annoyings since they are outside a Thor's Anti Air range.

[LeftEyeNine]

I mainly used Thor's in that mission, but those Protoss beamy cannons were annoyings since they are outside a Thor's Anti Air range.


Pumped Goliaths. Strengthened base with 6 missile turrets and 3 perdition turrets. Apart from easily succeeding the main mission, the side quest turned out to be child's play as well.

I left the last canister picker SVC right next to the command center so that I could freely roam whole map and sweep anything I come across with about 30 Goliaths I had.

Oh boy, they have an impenetrable base at the top of the map, whole army torn into pieces despite finishing off an army of equivalent numbers, the Protoss base was swarming with ships. Anyway, still a success.

[Ice]

ATI releases a hotfix beta driver set (http://support.amd.com/us/Pages/AMDSupportHub.aspx)that enables you to set AA for Starcraft 2 via Catalyst Control Center.

First time screw-up in campaign: Gathering Terrazine.

I basically did you what did, but added some marines, marauders, and firebats into the mix. You really only need a siege tank, a bunker full of marines, and 2 missile turrets to guard your base.

[LeftEyeNine]

Well maybe I'm an idiot but the campaing seems to be designed so that the unit introduced with the relevant mission works out alone. Yeah it does. I passed it all to that point that way, and even the mission where those "transformer" units are met for the first time. I mean I pump only the units introduced, nothing else, if not so less to be insignificant, and get the mission accomplished.

[Beskar]

Just redid the level, if you kill all the protess on it, you get an achievement called "you're so crazy!" which comes under feat of strength

[Sjakihata]

Anyone up for some 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 or coop? Add me, Name: Skafsgaard, code: 220

[Risasi]

I felt like playing some real short PvP matches and hadn't fired up SC2 for a few months, so I figured I'd go win or lose for a little bit.
I can't even get the d@&n thing started. This stupid game has been patching itself for the past 23 minutes and says it has 13 more to go. Thank you Blizzard. Just imagine if I wanted to fire up just to continue my single player game. Feh, between this and getting homered by the platinum users I always end up playing is it any wonder I have started to turn my back on the click-fest online MP experience. Not another dime from me...

As for my take on SC2 (when I can play it). Nicer graphics, otherwise it's just like playing SC1.

I'm going to bed...

---

P.S. I now have a copy of Rome Total War and Medieval 2 Total War. I fully intend to ingratiate my PvP recreation online and playing LAN games with my friends. I am done wasting my time with the latest semi-brainless RTS fodder offered. Hopefully this community stays strong and CA doesn't screw up a good thing trying to be like the others.
I'd rather play a good game of chess or stratego than the likes of SC2 again...

[pevergreen]

You realise there have been some patches since you last played, and to play online you need to be up to date?

No offence, but if you're losing to plat you aren't too good. Anyone outside of high diamond/master league is bad at the game.

Obviously RTS is not your cup of tea. SC2 is one of the most balanced games.

[Risasi]

You realise there have been some patches since you last played, and to play online you need to be up to date?
Yes, I do. But an option to download or not would have been nice. Not some draconian rollercoaster that I was stuck on for a shade over 45 minutes...if I'd known and had the option I would have just played vs AI.



No offence, but if you're losing to plat you aren't too good. Anyone outside of high diamond/master league is bad at the game.
Yes, I know I'm not too good at the game. That's why I ended up getting ranked bronze I believe. Honestly I think I've only played two dozen games so far.
I was going to play a quick game or two to brush up a little bit. My criticism is that even when I do play I end up playing these much higher ranked players than I should be playing. Their little game matching that was touted so highly has been a piece of fail for me.



Obviously RTS is not your cup of tea. SC2 is one of the most balanced games.
I'm pretty good at Rise of Nations, but yes, I agree that SC2 is probably not my cup of tea. I am finding more and more that this style of play is just not holding my interest. I'm getting too old now. There is no way I can get my APM high enough to be competitive. Their system doesn't match me up well with others at my play level. So this isn't a fun game for me. I also find it disgusting that I can't even give away my license now. I have other friends who would snatch it up in a heartbeat.

Anyway, no I am not offended by what you have said. I was just giving you my point of view and you were doing the same.
I recently re-discovered the TW series after a 10 year hiatus. Firing up an ongoing campaign for 20 minutes when I have some free time at night has much more lasting appeal to me. I feel like I'm doing something. Not just playing one faceless build order battle after another.
Being able to play TW MP battles is just icing on the cake.

[pevergreen]

First off, about the matchmaking system.

It needs to play you against higher level players to see if you should be moved up. Its not matching you against anyone it shouldnt be, the system works fine.

SC2 has a much lower APM than SC1. I never played SC1 (warcraft 2 player) but apm of up to 500-600 was the top, over 300 was required to be even decent.

SC2 apm can be 150 and still be world class. But yeah, it gets harder as you get older, thats why the top koreans are under 20.

[Risasi]

Well, no big deal to me. I guess I don't just want to work so hard to have that much "fun". :martass:

I would find it interesting to see the demographics of who is playing SC2. It's been over a decade since the old one came out. A friend of mine is now 42 and I'm only a few years younger than him. He can't play multiplayer. In fact he never could play SC1 competitively and was resigned to playing mostly AI or co-op.
He now had five sons and they all like to play together. He definitely could use my license.

It will be a curious thing to see what my age group plays as they grow older.

Anyway, I wrote Blizzard support. To see about transfer of license to this friend of mine. I'll give them credit for that, it does seem like they will let me transfer my account/license to him. So thumbs up to them from me. At least they aren't as draconian as I thought they were.

[pevergreen]

Anyway, I wrote Blizzard support. To see about transfer of license to this friend of mine. I'll give them credit for that, it does seem like they will let me transfer my account/license to him. So thumbs up to them from me. At least they aren't as draconian as I thought they were.

Yeah, thats slightly surprising to me.

Seeing as you either have to beg them or buy a new copy if you move out of the regions. And region specific pricing...