How many men does a unit really represent?

[Takeda Shingen]

I'm curious about something and that is when you see a 60 man unit of say Archers how many men does that really represent.For example when i play Napoleonic's a Battalion of 12 figures on the game table is equal to 720 real men.I just wanted to know if this was the case here i may be wrong but i just thought i'd ask.

Michael

[ShaiHulud]

I think it's a 1 to 1 representation. Consider that the Daimyo is represented as one character.

------------------
Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[Tachikaze]

Well, it could be one-to-one, but armies were often much larger than the 1920-per-side possible in Shogun. Whether the units represent more than one unit, or each figure represents more than one man, I couldn't say.

However, Japanese armies were indeed relatively small compared to other parts of the world.

------------------
The best thing about TV is, you can turn it off!

[Shiro]

I believe Shai hit it right on the nose. 1 to 1.

Just thought I'd give a second opinion. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Seppu]

each man represents one man because each man has his on experience, way of fighting and moral and if one man represents 200 men then they must die quickly in 1 minute!! Armies can get up to 20,000 and larger (hojo attacked me with that many warriors once!), only 1920 men can be represented at once and the rest come only as reinforcements.

[ShadowKill]

yep fella's it is 1 to 1

there i had to add that in

------------------
Clan Shades
Shades (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)
You are already dead you just don't know it yet!!

[solypsist]

yep, to repeat: 1 to 1
it costs 1 koku for each man in an army, per year.

[Shiro]

That answer your question? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Alastair]

Historically, of course, the battles were much, much bigger. Consider that, in 18th century warfare, a company was made up of, on average, 200 men. A battalion was a few companies, so let's call that 6-800 men. A regiment was three battalions, so at least 1,800 men. Brigade=3,600, corps=10,000, army=50,000. Even if the armies of Japan were smaller, (which I doubt, since all men fought, artisans, peasants, nobles, everyone) the armies would still be at least 10,000 men strong.So each man in Shogun is worth, historically, ten.

P.S. I'm Ronin, and proud of it. Ronin, contrary to the ranks of this forum, were simply warriors whose master had died, and they became mercenaries (sort of). A Ronin warrior could be quite powerful.

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Yep, mercenaries may be cool, but they also tend to be poor like beggars. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif Seriously, contrary to the impression one can get from samurai movies, most rônin were a pretty miserable bunch. Being a sword-for-hire isn't easy when there are hundreds of thousands of others just like you, all on the same market... Many chose to become bandits instead.

Also, Japanese armies were really pretty small. The samurai were more a nobility than professional soldiers, as far as numbers are concerned, and thus composed a rather small percentage of the populace; even with ashigaru, the armies of even several unified daimyô rarely consisted of more than some 50,000 troops. But keep in mind that, in the early 16th century, the 20,000 man Spanish "grand army" was the terror of the entire European continent - what is considered a sizeably army can vary considerably in different times.

My opinion (here it comes, you can wake up again now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif) is that while, in the tactical battles, each man really represents one man as far as performance is concerned, the battles are scaled down on the strategic level. Thus, it's not so much a question of "how many men does a unit represent" as "how many men does an army represent".

------------------
"1. Gi: the right decision, taken with equanimity, the right attitude, the truth. When we must die, we must die. Rectitude."

[ShaiHulud]

Yah, In the movie 'The Seven Samurai' they were mostly ronin (one ashi, yes?) and all but one seemed dirt poor.

------------------
Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks