View Full Version : CHALLENGE: MOORS vs FRANCE
RULES
VH
1.20 Vanilla
ZERO Experience upgrades
ZERO Armor upgrades
ZERO Weapon Upgrades
GRASSY PLAIN
NORMAL Unit Size
POST Battle Statistics Screenshot
POST Battle Result Screenshot
Challenge ENDS: 23:00 27/05/2007
MOORISH ARMY (PLAYER):
1 Bodyguard.
1 Christian Guard.
2 Grenadine Jinettes.
4 Camel Gunners.
4 Sudanese Gunners.
4 Handgunners.
4 Canon.
DEPLOYMENT: It is not essential but if you want it more fun/challenge deploy like this:
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/M2TW%20Army%20Compositions/Muwahid_Gunpowder_A1.png
FRENCH ARMY (VH AI):
1 BodyGuard
3 Lancers
4 Armored Sargeants
4 Dismounted Chivalric Knights
4 Musketeers
4 Serpentines
You can win ofc but the idea is just for fun. Anyone up for it ? If so go for it !
debaser144
05-22-2007, 15:45
im up for it as soon as i get my 1.2 installation running :thumbsdown: :help:
well maybe i ll give it a try in 1.1 :juggle2:
Well, I did the challenge and as you can see I nearly didn't make it.
https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5330/0000hj2.jpg
I only won because those Camel Gunners are just so damn good!
https://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1710/0001ab3.jpg
https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6281/0003jq8.jpg
That was hard! Why couldn't we use good Foot-Fighters?
This is my attempt.
Unfortunately, I made a slight mistake in the set-up and ended up two Camel Gunners short, but it didn't make a lot of difference.
https://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7360/medieval220070522164100fn4.png (https://imageshack.us)
Deployment: My opening deployment. The four cannon are in the centre supported by the infantry line consisting of alternate units of Sudanese and Handgunners. The Christians and Bodyguard Cavalry are in reserve ready for local counter attacks. Whilst one unit of Jinettes and one unit of Camel Gunners are delpoyed wide on each flank.
Battle Plan: Let the French come to me. But as soon as they are committed rush the Jinettes and Camel Gunners forward behind their flanks and take out their artillery.
Once the French artillery has been destroyed the Jinettes and Camel Gunners will close on the enemies rear and just create as much confusion and havoc they can to buy time for my infantry to shoot the enemy to hell.
https://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6969/medieval220070522164215wf7.png (https://imageshack.us)
Battle opens the first shots are fired.
https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6720/medieval220070522164730hk7.png (https://imageshack.us)
My Camel Gunners and Jinettes mix it with the enemy artillery behind the enemies rear.
https://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1236/medieval220070522165043je7.png (https://imageshack.us)
Final stages of the battle showing my Camel Gunners returning to shoot the enemy infantry in the back.
https://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7599/moorchallengeei0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Final Score. The plan worked like a charm.
Damn! forgot the statistic's screenshot, for the record I think the camel gunners had clocked up about 130 kills each.
Very nice guys ! Excellent battle debrief Didz!.
Xehh the reason is because I made up this army and found it's pretty fun to play.
If you have good swordsmen it's easy, not really a challenge.
Ok amendment to the rules, NORMAL unit size. Large unit size negates the enemy Lancer advantage.
One more thing try and deploy like this, use the two flank cavalry groups to skirmish and flank, use the Handgunner groups as reserves and flankers, Sudanese as main line, cannons so that they can enfilade (crossfire) diagonally. This will be even more challenging than having a single infantry line.
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/M2TW%20Army%20Compositions/Muwahid_Gunpowder_A1.png
Would just like to point out that france cant train musketeers, only arquebusiers.
Seeing as i hate artillery i went for using them as bait while i surrounded them with crossfire with everything else, here is the results.
http://alsn.net/battle results.jpgand as you can see here my cannons kinda died :P
http://alsn.net/battle statistics.JPG
Sorry for not using your deployment, though in essence my setup wasnt much different except for an extreme lack of synergy and cool looks ;)
Basic tactic was kill off the cavalry with the camel gunners and jinetes and then mop up all the infantry using the gunners and christian guard/bodyguard.
I tried using the cannons to kill the serpentines but as you can see the few shots they managed to fire missed :)
Excellent score ! and great tactics. Nice job !
I think you should try that deployment, it adds to the challenge, actually that is a great part of the difficulty. You'd do well, I'm sure.
Ars Moriendi
05-24-2007, 21:14
Okay, so I lost the first time I tried it :embarassed: ...
This kind of battles is the complete opposite of my usual style of play since I tend to favor heavy / slow armies and I don't think I've ever used anything with more than 30% gunpowder.
The battle quickly turned in an unmanageable mess, with lancers running circles through my gunners and everything went to hell in no time. Camel gunners were good, but not good enough to save me. So I quit like the coward I am and I revised my approach.
Second time I paused a lot more (both for tactical decisions and to take screenshots) and finally won.
Here it is, Cpt.Omar vs. Cpt.Thierry, story in screenshots :
https://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3412/1initialdeploymentuz0.jpg
https://img374.imageshack.us/img374/279/2openingmovesty4.jpg
https://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8392/3lancergunner1od3.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9174/4lancergunner2zk4.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6051/5arquebuserbc3.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6334/6lancerecounterchargeut2.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8414/7christianfleeia5.jpg
https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5090/8leftflankfm2.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1018/90xgunnersah8.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5739/92jinettesroutersbh7.jpg
https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6886/93jinetteslancersre8.jpg
https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2615/94generalfightra5.jpg
After the enemy general fled, the battle once again degenerated in a messy & confused affair, but this time, due mainly to a lot more pausing, I did a lot better.
With the french cavalry mostly gone, (and their arquebusiers too) all that was left was their heavy foot, trying to catch my skirmishing gunners only to be shot at from all sides, break, flee and get ran down by my cavalry.
End game :
https://img487.imageshack.us/img487/9493/95scoreum0.jpg
khaos83_2000
05-25-2007, 06:53
nice battle report, Ars Moriendi :2thumbsup:
Here it is, Cpt.Omar vs. Cpt.Thierry, story in screenshots :
https://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3412/1initialdeploymentuz0.jpg
End game :
https://img487.imageshack.us/img487/9493/95scoreum0.jpg
Congratulations Ars Moriendi You are the leading contender in this challenge so far. You deployed as per the setup, executed the tactics almost perfectly. Well done !
For the effort you put into that battle debrief & presentation you have an extra point, par with Didz.
Challenge ENDS: 23:00 27/05/2007.
Anyone willing to contest Ars Moriendi, using the same deployment and tactics, you have approximately 63 hours.
2nd attempts are welcome.
Next challenge will be Mongols vs a yet unknown faction.
It will be a night battle, somewhere on the Eastern steppe.
Prepare your mounts ! We ride at dusk !
Nice one Ars, loved the commentary. Our tactic's seem to be similar and produced similar results, seems to be the way to go.
a siege battle as contest could be cool as wel
I'm happy you guys are enjoying this ! Didz, you and Moriendi got the tactic right. The confusion is part of the challenge. Maybe we should do one of these every week. It's for fun, try something new and compete in POSITIVE gentlemanly spirit.
Snorky, good idea, point noted.
Hello all.
Decided to give this a try, only been playing this game a couple of weeks and never used these units before so was fun and a challenge! Lost the first time and won the second.
Deployment as per instructions.
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa231/Kovvers/Deployment.jpg
I flanked them with my camel gunners and jinettes, probably should have got more behind, but they did some good damage from the side.
What ever happened in the middle was a mess but as the dust cleared i realised i had won!
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa231/Kovvers/cleared.jpg
Victory
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa231/Kovvers/Victory.jpg
Stats
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa231/Kovvers/Stats.jpg
I did record a replay and would love some feedback because it was far from perfect i'm sure and am still learning this game!
Rapidshare
http://rapidshare.com/files/33282233/MoorsVfrench.rpy.html
Cheers.
Sinan your posts have been interesting and informative thanks allot!
Ars Moriendi
05-25-2007, 16:46
I'm glad you guys enjoyed the presentation, thanks for the feedback.
@ didz : "ended up two Camel Gunners short, but it didn't make a lot of difference"
Say what !? Two camel gunners short I would surely have lost, as only two of them will not be enough to take out the lancers, and when those guys get moving nothing stands against them. I quite honestly can't figure out how you managed to win with only two gunners. (what's the smiley for "bow in reverence" ?)
@ Alsn : "Men remaining : 666"
I sense that you, Sir, are in league with The Unclean One. Take heed : selling your soul to the devil for victory in battle will bite back someday...~;)
Hello all.
I did record a replay and would love some feedback because it was far from perfect i'm sure and am still learning this game!
There's something wrong with either the replay or my M2TW installation, since I've played it back three times, each with different results. The moors won each time, but kill numbers and battle development where quite unlike each other.
As such, I can only comment on your initial moves since they seemed constant through each playback. I assume your request for feedback means "constructive criticism" so I won't highlight what you did right, but only the one thing that I think you could have done better :
You let your camel gunners and jinettes waste precious time and even more precious ammo on the serpentines and the arquebusiers. While it eventually turned out well, if the odds were a bit more slanted against you, this waste could've been your undoing. The jinettes could easily and quickly dispatch the artillery by sword, as they're decent in mellee and fast enough to get there before serpents do much damage. The arquebusiers have a bad habit of rushing too far ahead of support - your heavy cav ought to get busy charging them (still, be wary of countercharges, see the "ouch" screenshot above).
Your mobile firepower might have been better used on the enemy heavies - camel gunners for the cavalry, since they have long range and can wipe an unit from afar, the jinettes for the foot knights - those javelins work wonders on rears of slow moving heavily armored targets.
That's it...
So , anyone knows what's wrong with Kovvers' replay playback ? Or am I the only one who's experiencing this sort of problems ?
Odd that the replay dosn't work, seems ok on my installation, perhaps we have something different in our setups.
Anyway thanks for the feedback, you're totally right, should have charged them rather than shooting em up, didn't think of that!
hisn00bness
05-28-2007, 15:56
Tried a VH battle using the suggested deployment on grassy plains.
I deployed a bit to the back of the field as to maximise the enfilade of my cannon fire. Sadly this didn't work at all; my 4 cannon units scored 20 kills between them I think. If the cannons would have actually hit anything I think I couldve beaten the score of Ars Moriendi due to causing an earlier route and thereby saving some units from being shot by arqs.
Anyway early on I moved the jinettes behind the serpentines for a charge from both flanks :
https://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5558/jinettechargenq7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
At the same time 2 units of camel gunners on each flank tried to draw off lancers.Each of them managed to lure one lancer unit away from the main formation :
https://img513.imageshack.us/img513/991/camelgunnersluringyq7.th.jpg (https://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camelgunnersluringyq7.jpg)
One unit of the lancers swiftly breaks but the other one rejoins the advance of the french line without breaking.
https://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2130/camelgunnersvslancersnt6.th.jpg (https://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camelgunnersvslancersnt6.jpg)
As the Jinettes mop up the remaining serpentine crews, the christian guard charges the ever overzaelous arquebusiers .
https://img299.imageshack.us/img299/180/jinettemoppingeo0.th.jpg (https://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jinettemoppingeo0.jpg)
https://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4980/christiancharge1hv3.th.jpg (https://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=christiancharge1hv3.jpg)
Immediately afterwards, the guard makes a tactical retrat to avoid getting WTFPWEND by the charging remaining lancer unit + General.
https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9796/cavretreatingbl1.th.jpg (https://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cavretreatingbl1.jpg)
Which are about to waltz into the sudanese gunners trap .
https://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3213/trapdg8.th.jpg (https://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trapdg8.jpg)
and sure enough ;
https://img523.imageshack.us/img523/762/harharam8.th.jpg (https://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=harharam8.jpg)
Things almost go very very wrongm when the one lancer unit that didnt break and the bastard French general change course at the last moment and charge straight into the left handgunner flank.
https://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7417/dangeroa5.th.jpg (https://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dangeroa5.jpg)
quite precarious situation indeed
https://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5815/danger2us1.th.jpg (https://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danger2us1.jpg)
Luckily my own Generalm fit as a fiddle manages to correct the situation before too many damage is done... I suppose the volley of jinettes in the back of the enemy group didnt hurt either
https://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3529/rescuebg4.th.jpg (https://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rescuebg4.jpg)
In the meanwile, my mounted and dismounted gunners managed to envelop the enemy infantry lines, of which I sadly couldnt get a decent enough comprehensive screenie... suffice it to say that the results were devastating and the following quickly ensued [ note also the strange skyline on this pic]
https://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6531/routehh1.th.jpg (https://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=routehh1.jpg)
Afterwards my General went back to Marrakesh and partied all day long .
<snip> No babes outside the babes thread </snip> ~sapi
Results ;
https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1500/battleresultoj9.th.jpg (https://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battleresultoj9.jpg)
Note the outrageous score of my rampaging Jinettes !
https://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1415/battleresult2ua3.th.jpg (https://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battleresult2ua3.jpg)
7 guys worse than Ars.... ill take peace with a nice second place. It was Great Fun and I cant wait for the next challenge.
[I sure hope that the pictures will work correctly I could try to sort it out if they dont but I havent found an EDIT POST button on these boards yet]
hisn00bness
05-28-2007, 16:07
Only doubleposting because I cant seem to find an edit button ;
it seems my dyslexia is playing tricks on me ! :dizzy2:
Ars had 677 left whilst I managed a neat 760 !
So glory be to me after all !!!!!! :2thumbsup:
Ars Moriendi
05-28-2007, 18:16
Nicely done hisn00bness !
Some convergence here : I have a "deja vu" feeling - your battle description matches almost exactly what happened on my turn - except the part where "the guard makes a tactical retrat to avoid getting WTFPWEND", it was more like "run for your lives !" in my case :).
A few notes :
1. you don't have an edit button until you graduate from junior member
2. the weird skyline - if that's a partially rendered frame, maybe checking "v-sync" in video options will prevent it from happening again
3. your general is cool and everything, but he needs better swimsuit.
hisn00bness
05-28-2007, 20:18
hehe thanks !!!
I just noticed that I'm a day late though :furious3:
I have to admit of course that I peeked at your battle report first before doing my run; I liked the approach; so I didn't really change the plan.
An alertnative approach that would require GREAT timing but could maybe get even better results would be to deploy with the camel gunners behind the sudanese. and keep fire at will off 'till the last moment ; then synchronize a massive 12 unit volley on the opposing Arquebusiers together with 4 cannon balls .... This might be enough to make a mass route if you can get a second volley of at the cavalry before it smashes into your ranks.
it's not really following the rules of the challenge though and also I think there would be a big luck factor involved given the innacuracies of cannons
EXCELLENT reports all ! I hope you enjoyed this one and it was something different for you. I've posted a new one (finally, sorry for the delay!). I think this one should be good too. Posted it in a new thread ("Challenge 2" keywords) It's Mongols vs Turks, you command an all cavalry army at night. TRY not to use pause ! Have fun !
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86757
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