History! Historians?

[David_VI]

Hey guys, i'm back, thats if you even remember me. I posted a few times a long time ago. Got the new update and i'm back playing my friends the Casse.

Just curious about stuff unrelated to the mod.

Do you guys have historians on your team and how are they historians? I'm really interested in history, especially British ancient history, roman era and before.

The Casse can't be found online, how did you find all the info? Any books you recommend that would be interesting but not a hard read for someone whos not really the hardcore reading type, just good information, interesting!

I'm just quite interested in history and how the team go about their findings and how they came to be such people of info, studied or just really interested and read from home?
What even qualifies someone to be called a historian!?

I'm also hoping to start a band, pagan/viking epic kinda metal, but based on the history of the local area (Colchester, Romans, Boudica, Casse!) instead of the typical Scandinavian bands basing their concept on Vikings! (Nice idea i thought).... so its made me even more interested in history, tying in my two favourites together, music and history!

:)
Hope you can help and maybe have a casual chat.

David

:book:

[The_Mark]

Epic Celtic metal? Now, there's a niche.

I'd buy it :beam:

[David_VI]

Epic Celtic metal? Now, there's a niche.

I'd buy it :beam:

Sure you already have bought it, Finland is the main country for bands of that genre.. well not specifically Celtic but Epic 'battle' viking metal.
Turisas and Ensiferum for example ;) Really fun music.

Infact to make a kinda English Brit version i'd need to understand a lot more.
Did the Brits have music? what instruments did they use? Any evidence of them making instruments? Would be interesting!

I love Finland. I hope to visit it one day.

[bovi]

I have Iron by Ensiferum after hearing them at Wacken. Some cool tunes. I'll check out Turisas. Try Finntroll (http://www.finntroll.net/)too!http://forum.europabarbarorum.org/images/smilies/new2/dwarf.gif

[The_Mark]

Don't forget Teräsbetoni:

https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9471/terasbetoniid6.jpg

Christ they're bad :laugh4:

[Thaatu]

Noooooo..! Teräsbetoni....


Seriously though, everyone try Moonsorrow. That together with a Sweboz campaign and minds will blow. I have tried, and see? My mind, GONE. Simply awesome.

[abou]

I was so glad when I found Moonsorrow's work at a decent price.

Don't forget Bathory's Nordland I & II!

[David_VI]

Haha wow it seems like people are clued up on the metal world here.
I'm kinda a fan of Finntroll, gone off them, but used to be into them, seen them live n all :).

[Master_Thief]

I am seriously into Pagan metal at the moment. Not so sure about bands such as fintroll though. Search for Waylander and Mael Mordha on myspace and google. The music is slightly more serious, with fewer axes, fake blood and tunics. However its still pretty heavy , espcially Mael Mordha and both groups make full use of traditional instruments. There's also a group called Suid Akra who occasionally incline towards the pagan side of things. Also try Skyforger's new single. In fact just look at the links on Waylander's page and you'll find some decent groups. Waylander and Mael Mordha are oirish bands so they generally play celtic influenced music, which might be more what you're looking for.

[paullus]

wow, those dudes are skinny! they don't look like proper vikings at all! i mean, compare them to hagar, waaay off.

[NeoSpartan]

wow, those dudes are skinny! they don't look like proper vikings at all! i mean, compare them to hagar, waaay off.

Dang right!

Those dudes need to EAT lots of Meat and Fish, and LIFT HEAVY SH*T!!!

[-Praetor-]

they look like... starved gasaetae... or something like that...

[Watchman]

It is commonly assumed here that's part of the joke. Although I for one don't quite know for sure if they're serious, or Monty Python serious.

But camp is always funny.


they don't look like proper vikings at all!That's all good - there were no Finnish vikings to begin with. AFAIK our "going viking" was limited to Baltic piracy, as practised probably since someone figured out how to build a seaworthy boat...

[the_handsome_viking]

http://www.rusmetal.ru/vae_solis/GravelandPic.jpg

[The_Mark]

That's all good - there were no Finnish vikings to begin with. AFAIK our "going viking" was limited to Baltic piracy, as practised probably since someone figured out how to build a seaworthy boat...
As well as misguiding ships in our treacherous archipelago and scavenging the remains, but yes, that's more piracy than.. vikingeering. Some Swedish king did burn Jurmo to the ground for it, though, and that was quite a bit after the viking era.

Oh, right, this brings an old folklore to my mind. The Finnish archipelagic guides would sell bits of rope with three knots on them. Opening the first knot brought calm weather, opening the second brought good sailing winds and opening the last knot brought a storm. The catch was, if you didn't pay enough, the guide didn't tell you the order in which the knots were laid out.

[Watchman]

No, I think they engaged in fair bit of good old-fashioned strandhögg as well back in them olden days. All but looted what would become Stockholm at one point too. A fine tradition in the whole region that sort of thing, AFAIK.

The Swedes probably originally conquered some of the coastal regions just to put a stopper on that sort of maritime enterpreneurship, too, back when they started getting in on this whole "build a kingdom and introduce it to your neighbours too" act.

Had to be a lot more low-key once there was a proper state and law-enforcement around naturally, those enterpreneuring archipelago-dwellers. The punitive expedition that leveled Jurmo being a fine case in point of what happened if you became too troublesome and the Crown could spare the effort.

[David_VI]

The new Turisas album is a concept album which isn't out yet, but based on a journey to Constantinople I believe


"The album is based on a concept story which is fictional, but strongly tied to real historical persons and events. It's a journey of a group of Northmen, who travel down the East-European river route through the lands of modern day East Europe. This was an important trade route in the 9th-11th centuries and the Northmen going in this direction were called Varangians who took this route to Kiev and finally Constantinople. The album follows this journey and the songs are events that take place on the road. As much as it is a journey of these men, it is also a journey in a search for self and identity - something which the protagonist is going through throughout the story. The varying surroundings can clearly be heard on the album as it features a lot of influences from the different cultures and people our travellers would have encountered on their journey.

Personally I love it, its a great sound, fun.. uplifting too.


So No word for the EB guys on historians ? :p

[bovi]

I believe Ranika is the mastermind of the Casse. He's on an extended leave now. Someone else might be well informed too of course, but they might be busy modding.

[The_Mark]

I miss Ranika and his tendency to start gutting at whim. The next best person here would be Anthony, regarding the Celts, not the gutting, mind you.

[[EB]Demulon]

While we're on the topic of good "historic epic concept metal bands" I'm sure you'd enjoy Kamelot and Symphony X. And as mentioned, it seems the best metal bands come from Scandinavia, particularly Finland. Nightwish and Children of Bodom are great bands, while black metal (Immortal, Dimmu Borgir, Emperor) from Norway are a good listen as well. Euro music is better than N.A. music in my opinion.

[Master_Thief]

I'm in the process of listening to Turisas for the first time... not bad, a little bit too glorified for my taste though. I notice nobody has taken any notice of my suggestions, evidently you're not hard enough! :beam: If you're interested in finding out about Celtic Britain and the type of music they played etc, perhaps you could try contacting a re-enactment group. I found the following on google: http://www.vicus.org.uk/ http://www.regia.org/ (the latter isn't celtic I know but it looks good, might join myself).

[bovi]

Turisas didn't suit me very well. Maybe Battle Metal was a poor choice of album? Currently listening to Teräsbetoni's "Älä Kerro Meille" which is pretty cool except for the occasional standard 80s metal high-pitched screams.

Edit: Didn't like the rest of Teräsbetoni's album much though. Very little to distinguish them from a lot of other music, it nearly becomes generic. I think what I liked about the song is the unusual use of voice during much of it. There's some of that in some other songs too but those screams which I really detest dominate most of them.

[David_VI]

Turisas...To be honest I have Battle Metal but I never got into it, however the promo of their new album I downloaded is just amazing! I love it.

I'll have to check out some recommendations, I know all of the more mainstream metal bands listed.
I used to be a huge Power metal fan so I own all of Symphony X's except the new album which I have heard and is pretty good, although i'm slightly off Power metal ;).

I need to check that reenactment link out. I'd love to join a group like that.

[David_VI]

Bump...

Any guys from EB prepared to answer questions that I have stated before? the thread kinda just went into a musical discussion..

I'm interested in tribes around my area (Trinovantes/Cassi)? Any books? I want to know basic info on them, their religion... and gods..

Thanks sirs!

[Geoffrey S]

The closest I've got on my bookshelves is Roman Britain by Keith Branigan. It's somewhat out of your timeframe and subject matter, and probably rather dated by now, but it was an interesting read nonetheless.

[tk-421]

I'm interested in tribes around my area (Trinovantes/Cassi)? Any books? I want to know basic info on them, their religion... and gods..


Anthony would know better than me, but I think that the Casse are sort of "proto-Catuvellani". I don't know where you can find information on their religion on what not, but you'll find a lot more information if you look for Catuvellauni rather than Casse.

[LusitanianWolf]

Oh yah, you'll have to an sample of your musics!
I love Epic/Celtic/Folk/Viking/Pagan metal (Turisas, Finntroll, Koorpiklaani, InExtremo, Wintersun, etc) and I have to try some of these other bands you were talking. :2thumbsup:


And I also love history (mostly the EB time frame :2thumbsup: ) so i'm also interested about where to find more info :yes: . Expecily about Lusotannan :egypt:

[The Celt]

Eh, I can't stand Metal! Especially in a Game about ancient Celts, Romans, Germanics and whatnot. I can't really find anything on the Celts but for the Sweboz their's Hedingarna(sp?)which are one of the coolest Finno-Swedish folk bands I've ever listened to. And of course Corvus Corax, Venus Vina Musica and Cantus Buranus really spiced up my MTW2 campaigns(whenever I feel like pulling MTW2 out of the drawer when I'm not in the mood for EB.)

[blitzkrieg80]

David VI, you have take the Trial of History, aka hysterectomy and be blessed by the Pope of History in order to be considered a true "historian," but it also involves several years of pederastry and loyal "service" to history. Good luck!

[Shigawire]

Real "viking" metal by Týr - Regin Smiður (Regin the blacksmith)
It's a real old song from the Færøes, recreated with metal, it's sung in Icelandic and they wear viking armor and fight - I don't know how much more "viking" you can get. Other attempts are just dim and silly in comparison. Even so, I think the idea of "epic viking metal" a silly idea. (I say this as a Norwegian)

Enjoy :beam:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674833193636769736&q=regin+smidur&total=30&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[David_VI]

Anthony would know better than me, but I think that the Casse are sort of "proto-Catuvellani". I don't know where you can find information on their religion on what not, but you'll find a lot more information if you look for Catuvellauni rather than Casse.

Hmm I am back around here and found a message in my inbox from Anthony, very interesting too!

Still not clued up on the relation between Cassi and Trinovantes, the Trinovantes seem to be more my area of the world although the Catu had Colchester as their capital too and the Trinovantes took it? I wonder if people changed, like Catu people joined the Trinovantes..

I can't write lyrics for .. I guess i need to know a lot about these people before I can come up with some sort of conceptual story.. that would be a good start.



David VI, you have take the Trial of History, aka hysterectomy and be blessed by the Pope of History in order to be considered a true "historian," but it also involves several years of pederastry and loyal "service" to history. Good luck!

Gosh! :p :book: :book: :book: :book:

[dezzerx]

Noone mentioned Amon Amarth?

[Radier]

Amon Amarth is by far the greatest metal band!

Best song: "Amon Amarth"... :horn: :viking: :drama1:

[Maeran]

I'm interested in tribes around my area (Trinovantes/Cassi)? Any books? I want to know basic info on them, their religion... and gods..

Thanks sirs!

I've got The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles, by Ronald Hutton. My edition is from 1993 so may well have been superceded by later research.

I'm not a historian or an archaeologist (although I have always been interested in the subject, and did study a science often confused with archeology) but it seems a well balanced and solid book to me.

I have to warn you, that what it mainly contains is "we don't know." But there's plenty of archeology, just precious little record of what they actually believed. Most of what is inferred about gods and so on come from Ireland, medieval Welsh stories and mainland Gaul, so you have to be pretty optimistic to believe that the Casse actually believed in, say, Teutatis themselves. Although tribes in Gaul did.

[David_VI]

hmm.

Big scary books, i'm not much a reader, although information books I can deal with if they state information well, on demand, like I can find what I want to know :)

Are the names given to leaders and captains in EB good examples of real ancient Brit names?
Like Barae for example?

David

[David_VI]

I am bumping my YE OLDE THREAD.

Are any of the knowledgable EB team still active?
I'm back enjoying EB after getting more and more into history so even more things have become interesting and confusing now..

Cheers :)

[vartan]

I am bumping my YE OLDE THREAD.

Are any of the knowledgable EB team still active?
I'm back enjoying EB after getting more and more into history so even more things have become interesting and confusing now..

Cheers :)

How did that Casse campaign go?

[David_VI]

I have no idea it was a long time ago now. I probably took most of europe then lost interest as I do with most games! ha.

I'm hoping to start again on 1.2 though, with BI if I can get it working.

David

[vartan]

I have no idea it was a long time ago now. I probably took most of europe then lost interest as I do with most games! ha.

I'm hoping to start again on 1.2 though, with BI if I can get it working.

David

Go with the ALX AI if you care to opt out of RTW. ALX engine is newest at 1.9, while BI is 1.6, and RTW a whopping 1.5...

[David_VI]

Well I don't own Alexander and i've had no luck with EB and BI, even using the special install mod.. :(

[abou]

All questions will be answered with an EB2 preview. Sorry to keep you waiting like that, but we don't want to reveal too much before we do a preview of the British Isles. Some things change; some stay the same; regardless the team is excited with where it is going.

[Brennus]

Personally I have to throw my wieght behing Equilibrium for great folk/pagan metal. Enisferum are great though! Einherjer and Eleuvitie are pretty awesome too.

My last reply had terrible spelling, sorry. Seems there are quite a few metalheads in EB. Anyone fancy setting up a group?

[David_VI]

I love Einherjer, I saw them live at Wacken around midday, they could have been so much better live!


Anyway.
Main thing im curious over about Casse EB is Camulosadae.
Now I know Camulos wasa god of war, but Sadae must mean something?

[Brennus]

Well if it helps David IV i'm an archaeologist with a special interest in the region of the Casse so here is what I know:

The Casse (or Catuvellauni as they are more commonly known) were migrants from from continental Gaul/Gallia Belgica. The name Casse originally meant "handsome ones" but in Britain this altered by 54BC to become Catuvellauni meaning "Battle Superiors". The continental ancestors of the Casse were a tribe known as the Catalauni (my spelling is probably wrong on this one, working from memory) who were either Gauls from the Marne region (according to Harding) or Belgic immigrants (o Haigan). c.120BC-60BC the Casse adopted what is known as the Aylesford-Swarling culture, a Belgic culture first identified in the late 19th century from two burial sites of the same name. This culture is identifiable by the presence of Gallo-Belgic pedestal urns and the body being cremated and placed in a bronze gilded wooden bucket.

The Casse cannot be seperated from the Trinovantes in the archaeological record due to both tribes practicing the Aylesford-Swarling culture and their numismatic evidence overlapping. During the latter half of the 1st Century BC and early 1st Century AD the Casse appear to have championed their native identity by minting their coins with distinctly "British" symbols in direct opposition to the Atrebates (a recent Belgic arrival from Gaul). A good example of this imagery is Cunobelinus who chose to display ears of corn on his staters (representing native crops and beer)whilst the contemporary Atrebatian king (who may be Tasciovanus?) displayed the more Meditteranean vine leaf.

Based on numismatic evidence the Casse appear to have been overlords of the Cantii and Iceni and in a state of constant hostility witht he Trinovantes and later the Atrebates. Based on historical records is also appears the Silures and Ordovices later became clients of the Casse as evidenced by Caractacus leading them against the Romans in the AD 60s.

Key Books to read: Barry Cunliffe Communities in Iron Age Britain and Harding Lowland Britain During the Iron Age Creighton's study of Iron Age coinage in Southern Britain and Allens famous 1950s study of Gallo-Belgic and British coinage in the first century BC.

Key Sites: Colchester, Verulamium

Sorry I don't know what the Sadae part means.

Anyone know what the lineup is for Wacken this year?

[David_VI]

Thanks so much for that info..
I've read one book so far in my search for knowledge and inspiration in lyrics/subject matters.. "The Roman invasion of Britain" by Leonard Cottrell, which was very good considering I don't really read anything.

I remember reading via google somewhere on this forum that Camulosadae is not Camulodunon/num yet it appears near and has Camulos in the title.. so thats mainly why i'm curious as to where it is, or if its an early name for Camulodunon.
Caractacus was one of the most interesting parts when I was reading. Goto be one of the legends of Britain in that era, how he managed to escape all the time and get more people behind him.. then was handed over to Rome where he disapeared into Roman society (it would seem!)

I booked my Wacken ticket yesterday actually, the lineup is quite good, better than last year I guess!
http://www.wacken.com/en/woa2010/

[Brennus]

Ooooooh, thats a damn good lineup. Nice collection of Glam, Thrash and Folk Metal for my tastes.

[Genava]

Does nobody know Eluveitie???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eluveitie

Your Gaulish War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ise7oUz3LYk

Thousandfold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRcnO7NeVi4

Slania's Song in Gaulish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCvQWe3kZ7A

[David_VI]

Yeah Eluveitie do what they do pretty well, I saw them 2 years back supporting Ensiferum on the Paganfest tour. I haven't followed them since they lost those two awesome looking twins (bass and pipes?) that I think would look great in an EB battle!