khwarizmian cavalry ???

[Cheetah]

I just visted the totalwar.com site and saw that there will be khwarizmian cavalry in the game. Does this imply that there will be a Khwarizmian empire as well? How big is the map? Will the map include the regions east to the Caspian see and Transoxania (i.e the historical location of the Khwarizmian empire)? If not what does the khwarizmian cavalry supposed to do?

[Vlad The Impaler]

well..as far as i know about ..the corect spell is "Khwarezmian"
they were heavy cavaly in persian tradition ;they were used as mercenaries in the muslin states and were replaced later by the turkish ghulams;
about fully armoured ..well i think that arab horses had never the size or strenght to carry a fully armoured horseman,as the knights from west;

[Orda Khan]

Surely not Cheetah, this would be Asia. However Jalal ad-Din wandered around the Afghan Persia area for a while following the destruction of Khwarizm by Chingiz Khan.I would not worry about the spelling as languages do not translate literally.
If we have these in MTW then we may as well include the Khmers, the Sioux and the Maoris and call it GTW. Global Total War.....Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Vanya]

Quote Originally posted by Orda Khan:
...and call it GTW. Global Total War...[/QUOTE]


GAH! GTW! You mean "Gah! Total War", right?

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

[Hirosito]

lol, yeah it seems the khmYFGIo....(oh please) cavalary will be in the services of the byzantinians

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Cheetah]

Lol, Vlad, this is the thrid variation of spelling I have seen. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif At totalwar they spell it as "khwarazmian", in the book I have it is spelled "khwarizmian" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif never mind ...

Khwarizmians under byzantian service? And what are the hobilars for? I thought that the hobilars are the byzantian cavalry. BTW, I've never heard that Jalal ad-Din ventured as far as the Byzantium. I thought that he only pilaged Armenia, of course, only after the mongols had defeated the armenian army.

The most annoying thing IMO that while we have these fancy unit types you cannot play with the biggest empire (mongols), the best cavalry (mongols), the strongest middle-european kingdom (Hungary) and the best european cavalry (hungarian IMO http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ). GRRR http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif

[Vlad The Impaler]

well..the k****** or whatever will be byzantines too? i thought the byzantine heavy cavalry will be the Kathapaktroi ( damn names!!! --Orda u are right about spelling http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )
and the hoblars byzantine too?
i doubt it;
about mongols ..they were the biggest empire only in medieval times Cheetah; the biggest emipire of all times was the British Empire;
i`m sure will be a patch with mongols so dont worry
as about Hungary i share ur opinion that they must be in this game;

[Orda Khan]

which brings us back to the faction choices. Pretty disappointing.........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Nelson]

I think the factions are fine. And we did just get the Mongol Invasion.

I for one won't miss the Mongols. They were not a threat to the bulk of Europe for very long. This game covers 400 years. The Golden Horde was a brief albeit severe thunder storm that blew back east.

[Krasturak]

Krast is looking forward to employing his Evil Army of Horse-riding mercenaries.

Call them what you want, Krast knows better ...

They are Tarranakian Horsemen.

[Hirosito]

yeah sorry it is the hobilars. i got confused (who can blame me). well the turks have a seperate faction what about them?

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Hirosito]

just checked again: the hobilars are scouts so it is possible. the khwarazmian are heavyly armoured so....

Q: was the byzantine empire islamic at the time?

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Orda Khan]

Not until defeated by Ottoman Turks.
Fall of Constantinople in 1453
.........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Vanya]

And don't forget the Varangian Guard, the Byzantine's fiercest warriors. They were Norse mercenaries. The locals referred to them as "white devils" for their ferocity in battle.

Clearly, this should be the elite Byzantine unit.

[Hirosito]

well the khwaramzian cav is an islamic unit if the byzantines weren't islamic they don't have them.

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Edwin]

>And don't forget the Varangian Guard, the >Byzantine's fiercest warriors. They were >Norse mercenaries. The locals referred to >them as "white devils" for their ferocity >in battle.
>Clearly, this should be the elite Byzantine >unit.


Yea I think the "Norse men" should be in the game, actually the vikings that arrived in byzantine was swedish vikings that sailed and carried their boats throu russia, and then down to Byzantine.

There actually exists runestones in sweden in memorial of a viking that died in Byzantine, the stone was bought and raised by his brother, I think.

[Cheetah]

Hirosito, I agree with you, the khwarizmians should have nothing to do with the byzantine empire. But definitely they have nothing to do with the Almohads or with the Turks either. So, where do they belong? Just a fancy unit type? Anyone any idea?

[Khan7]

Well, they made it sound as if they fought for the Muslim peeps. And, considering that the Near East area has a loong history of heavily armored cavalry (they had the first true cataphracts, fighting Alexander the Great and the Romans etc.).. it makes total sense.

They're in that area. It would probably be appropriate if they were one of those province-specific thingers, like maybe from Bactria (I think that's one of the Persian provinces with the Cataphracts, may be wrong).

Matt

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[Hulegu]

Yep there was a lasting tradition of heavily-armoured cavalry in Central Asia, lasting well into the time of the Mongol Conquest and beyond into the days of Tamerlane. I do hope they're in the game, as I am fascinated by heavily armoured cavalry and would love to play Total War in the Near East and Central Asia. And I don't know what the horses thought about it, but some, at least, were fully armoured. Whether the lamellar armour, traditionally used in the region, was lighter than western types I would have to check.
Byzantine heavy cavalry - perhaps a more complex subject. Exactly what a cataphract was and how a clibinarius or klibanophoros differed has been a matter of debate, leaving aside questions of changes over time. It was in the ninth or tenth century that they were re-introduced to Byzantine armies, and it has been suggested that they were, at the very least, rare after Manzikert (1071). Nevertheless, happily the preview pics of unit types in include a Byz. cataphract and if it resembles what will actually be in the game it may just be the first really convincing-looking cataphract in a computer game!