KotR Out of character thread VI

[AussieGiant]

AG, Leopold is the son, Arnold is the grandson of Henrich. :P

Spot!!

Changing now.

[OverKnight]

My battle report is up.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1570533&postcount=87

I came very close to defeat let me tell you. Uphill against 5 heavy lancers and 14 archer units! :hide:

[econ21]

Well fought Overknight. :bow: And well written too.

BTW - can you remind me, what was the eventual story on your patch? was your copy of the game from direct2drive and have they provided a patch (or did you have to buy a boxed copy).

[FactionHeir]

I think he ended up getting a boxed copy, did post something like that in one of the older OOC threads

[econ21]

Thanks, that figures - I asked because the staff are still fielding queries from frustrated direct2drive customers.

[Kagemusha]

Exellent battle Overknight!Im kind of sad that the mongols are gone,atleast the first wawe,but then my character is safe and sound in the Reich,so it easy for me to be sad on loss of the mongols,when i dont have to face them myself.:clown:

[Stuperman]

Impressive Victory indeed, Phyyrus would be proud ~;)

in all seriousness I'm not sure I could have done it.

[StoneCold]

Econ or anyone, why are we trying to take Edessa for? I thought it was 1 territory for each house and 1 for the Imperial? With Adana, Antioch, Aleppo, Acre and Damascus, you guys should be done. So what was the point again? With Aleppo, there is a nice river crossing to defend but not with Edessa.

[FactionHeir]

To fulfill CA 9.1

[StoneCold]

I know it is to fulfill CA 9.1. But why was that place included in CA 9.1 in the first place? It doesn't make sense and I don't think historically the crusade even own that area.

[FactionHeir]

Actually the first crusade split after Antioch and a small party took Edessa historically.

[gibsonsg91921]

is there still 2nd and third waves of mongols or did we own them too hard?

[Stuperman]

AFAIK there is a 2nd and third wave that are bigger/meaner I think Ganghis (sp) even shows up.

[gibsonsg91921]

but what i was wondering is that it says faction destroyed - are they not coming or does the faction come back to life?

[StoneCold]

The faction destroyed means only the first wave was destroyed. From what I read, each wave you destroyed will have another announcement of a faction destroyed being displayed.

[FactionHeir]

Well, if you manage to get all three waves onto your territory before striking out against them, you'll only get one faction destroyed message. Basically Mongols reemerge after a while as in wave 2.

[Stig]

I think we should allow them to build an empire, would be fun

[flyd]

I think we should allow them to build an empire, would be fun

I really don't think they'll need our permission!

[econ21]

I know it is to fulfill CA 9.1. But why was that place included in CA 9.1 in the first place? It doesn't make sense and I don't think historically the crusade even own that area.

Well, you may recall the draft constitution did not mention Edessa. That was because, cough, I did not know it existed. :embarassed: When a spy revealed it during my Chancellorship, I had a rethink.

In historical terms, as factionheir said, it was part of the crusader kingdoms.

In gameplay terms, if we take it, we basically remove the Egyptians north of the Jerusalem (they still hold Baghdad, but that's faraway). I thought it sort of tidies things up - Turks in the north; Egyptians in the south.

I would strongly advocate we do not raid and take the remainng Muslim settlements - especially Gaza and the Turkish lands. Let them keep building up infrastructure and spawning armies so we are under continual pressure from a rising Islam. This is purely OOC, so we keep a challenge (same reason I don't want us to keep taking French territories).


I think we should allow them to build an empire, would be fun.

Interesting idea. Together with factionheir's two half strength armies and the "leave the Muslims alone" injunction, perhaps we can slowly strangle Outremer? So that next time, the Mongols get entrenched. Perhaps there should be an anti-Outremer faction in the Diet that tries to starve it of resources? We may already have a leader in Jonas. Historically, when did crusading die out? Isn't there some in game date when crusades become impossible or at least crusading mercs become unavailable?

I'm just thinking of things to do. As I said before, I think we are at a tipping point. We could either press on and finish the game. Or perhaps we should pull back a little, weaken ourselves and create new challenges. It depends what kind of experience people want. If they would find it frustrating to just hold the line and keep battling off AI hordes, we should press on. Personally, I am quite attracted to turtling - we have very lively OOC thread and seem to be developing the stories and roleplaying quite, so perhaps we can keep the game fun despite not making progress on the campaign map?

I suggest people take up OOC views on this, then find a way to rationalise them in character and we decide it through the usual in-character edicts, Chancellorship elections and charter amendments. I don't think there is much need to argue it all out OOC - when we did that with the crusade to Jersualem, it broke the immersion for some people and we lost something from the experienced.

[Stig]

I'm for an anti-crusading faction

Jonas seems to be a good person to be in it. And I'll gladly make Ansehelm the number two.
However with 3 or 4 it still doesn't have enough power to get the edicts through.


Günther von Kastilien seems a good candidate with his 2 Piety (hell the whole house of Franconia seems up for the job). And there are quite some low piety Swabians.

[FactionHeir]

I think after the second crusade failed, morale was quite low in terms of forming the third one. While the third one did end up being formed and led, it too, too failed and that was pretty much the last time western europe listened to a pope calling a crusade.
Considering we have yet to fail a single crusade....

As for mercenaries, all crusading mercenaries we can hire at this time will cease at 1300. That includes Crusader knights, Crusader sergeants, Great cross.
Religious fanatics and pilgrims will remain in the pool. Flagellants become available for a while until 1370.
1300 is a breaking point for a lot of common mercenaries such as Frankish knights and merc crossbows, which get replaced by modern versions, such as mercenary (german) knights and merc pasive crossbows. Merc (german) knights are actually worse than Frankish knights in terms of morale and stats and speed.
Around 1300, we'll also start seeing the gunpowder age mercs and pikes.

[Northnovas]

I'm just thinking of things to do. As I said before, I think we are at a tipping point. We could either press on and finish the game. Or perhaps we should pull back a little, weaken ourselves and create new challenges. It depends what kind of experience people want. If they would find it frustrating to just hold the line and keep battling off AI hordes, we should press on. Personally, I am quite attracted to turtling - we have very lively OOC thread and seem to be developing the stories and roleplaying quite, so perhaps we can keep the game fun despite not making progress on the campaign map?

That could be interesting for the young generals left out there. The glory gone and now stuck to defend some barren land fighting to survive and the homeland doesn't see the need to assist a priority. Interesting!?

[econ21]

It might be interesting to compare Outremer's revenue and costs. I guess potentially, it may be lucrative. But if not, requiring it to be roughly self-sufficient could be one way of constraining things over there. Upgrading fortresses soon gets expensive.

I know we decided against decentralising budgets in the HRE trial under Lucjan, but perhaps something simpler could be done just for this case.

[FactionHeir]

While our capital is in Rome, income in Outremer won't be too high due to distance penalty. Also, Rome is actually quite close to Palermo which has several of the resources normally found only in outremer, leading to our merchants not getting too high of an income from those over there.

[Stuperman]

Has the distance penalty gone up since 1.0? I remember in my 1st scottish campaign my crusader kingdoms only had a distance penalty of 35% ( I figured it would have been 80% like in RTW). I always figured it was 'scaled' to acommidate the americas, and as such the middle east wasn't as hard to maintian.

[econ21]

Not sure if anything has changed since 1.0, but there was some Citadel research showing that distance penalties in M2TW were half those of RTW so 35% compared to 80% sounds about right.

[OverKnight]

BTW - can you remind me, what was the eventual story on your patch? was your copy of the game from direct2drive and have they provided a patch (or did you have to buy a boxed copy).

I caved in and bought a hard copy. I checked d2d's site and they still don't have a patch up. Considering the size and complexity of the patch, I'm not optimistic that it'll be implemented soon.

Of course if I knew what I was doing I'd have bought a hard copy in the first place.

[TinCow]

It might be interesting to compare Outremer's revenue and costs. I guess potentially, it may be lucrative. But if not, requiring it to be roughly self-sufficient could be one way of constraining things over there. Upgrading fortresses soon gets expensive.

I know we decided against decentralising budgets in the HRE trial under Lucjan, but perhaps something simpler could be done just for this case.

Here's a simple solution:

Charter Amendment X.X: The Kingdom of Outremer may not spend more than 10,000 florins per turn total on construction and recruitment of soldiers, ships, agents, and mercenaries. If the Kingdom of Outremer spends 5,000 florins or less on a turn, on the next turn only it may spend 15,000 florins. If the Kingdom of Outremer spends nothing on a turn, on the next turn only it may spend 20,000 florins. Expenditures in excess of this amount may be approved by a simple majority vote of the Diet.

That limits expenditures, allows for 'savings' for expensive projects, and doesn't require any complex math. If it's too much or too little, just change the numbers. (I have no idea how much we're making at the moment, just threw out random easy to use numbers.)

[FactionHeir]

I suppose the thing is that as we progress in the game, buildings become increasingly expensive. Consider building an armoury for instance. That alone costs 9600. Similarly upgrading to citadel/huge city.
I'd probably say it would be a better idea to limit military expenditure there to a certain amount. Like no more than 5k upkeep a turn:
DFK upkeep: 220
GB upkeep (as well as most cav): 250

Forgot which file it was but paying us costs too (i.e. the character)

[econ21]

More positively, with Outremer going into defensive mode, the first wave of Mongols stomped and fears about our over-expanding in Europe, we need to start thinking about some "glorious achievements" or something to aim for next.

Just brain storming:

1) Armed merchant/missionary expedition to Timbucktu.
2) Punitive raid on a faraway Russian city as pay back for Thorn
3) Establishing a holding on the west coast of Europe, to set us up for America (we can wait on this one).
4) Interfering in some wars between our allies and enemies, as we did at Constantinople.
5) Topping that obnoxious Danish Prince who wanted to kill his dad and got his crusade to attack us.
6) Some chevauchée style raids on our long term enemies - try to defeat their armies in the field, but leave their settlements alone.
7) Maybe some cultural goals to make the economy tighter for a bit: e.g. a cathedral in every city? (would require a CA, I guess).
8) A charm offensive to try to turn an enemy into an ally (again, would make the economy tighter).

I'd also encourge players to look at their character's traits and retinue, to figure out some personal goals (e.g. Lothar seems to be collecting scalps or something). Or, if the traits etc are no help, just dream up something.

Again, it may be best for immersion if we don't debate or even announce these things publically OOC, but work for them in character or via PMs.

[FactionHeir]

1) I can make arrangements for that this term still since the BHA will soon be en route to the Milanese
2) Could work. FHA is almost back to full strength.
3) Might be a while
4) I have sent Jobst to help the English against Danes/France
5) I can send up Welf Courcy if you like
6) Hmm interesting. But that would slow down the game a lot, not in terms of progress but in terms of OOC because you'd have too many battles a turn and need to get all players to fight them
7) I've been doing something like that and also law buildings
8) Will be difficult/impossible with our current reputation


Another few ideas could be when we get a less pious emperor + chancellor (maybe Jobst) and he decided to break relations with the pope and end up gifting all of outremer to papal states so they defend themselves. Eventually when the next mongol waves come in and take a papal city, we can declare a crusade on it.

[OverKnight]

Interesting ideas. . .

I agree, we should set some goals for ourselves, privately, that we should try to accomplish IC. This will increase RP, add some intrigue to the game and ensure that no one has a full picture of what's going on.

If we wanted to achieve more traditional TW goals, paint the map black for instance, we could, but that's what single player games are for.

[econ21]

I'm not saying you should do any, let alone all, of that, factionheir. You're having a pretty lively chancellorship as it is. It is more like ideas for the future. I think it would be good to use the Diet sessions to propose such ideas and agree glory goals. The Diet is rather quiet, so it would be good to channel things through there.

It sounds like our reputation is becoming a constraint on diplomacy. What can we do to raise it? And what should we avoid to stop it falling further?

I have this post from you in the Citadel FAQ:


Always occupy cities and release/random prisoners. Thats really the main thing.
Never attack a neutral or an ally and if you agree to something in diplomacy, keep to it.

That's really all that is needed to keep it up. Doing that lets me stay between very reliable to trustworthy, but TBH its not really worth the effort as it seem to have a very minor impact on diplomacy only. people still want half your empire for a ceasefire.

Is that still your take on things?


Another few ideas could be when we get a less pious emperor + chancellor (maybe Jobst) and he decided to break relations with the pope and end up gifting all of outremer to papal states so they defend themselves. Eventually when the next mongol waves come in and take a papal city, we can declare a crusade on it.

I think Warluster has retained quite a lot of freedom for when he becomes Emperor. The way he has role-played Jobst means I can't predict what he will do. Could be interesting. Especially with that pagan magician in his retinue... :eyebrows:

[StoneCold]

OK, what happen to you updating the house maps? :P

FH, I read that the reputation thing has a lot to do with chivalry, that if you release POW and just occupy cities, your reputation will improve? That might be difficult to implement in RP sake, so our reputation will just keep going down?

[FactionHeir]

econ: Pretty much the same as before, so that post is still correct. As per 1.02 though, having a good reputation is worth it if you want to pursue diplomacy.
You could add though that as per 1.02, being allied also gives a boost to reputation.

Its quite difficult to achieve this as StoneCold says as we tend to sack every settlement we come across and sometimes exterminate. Part of the reason is RP, the other is that we do lack a lot of florins for construction by having so many armies and goals. Also, in vanilla 1.02 and before, the change in reputation is minute when you perform said action so basically your first 40 or so turns decide what reputation you end up on.
In my SP games, I have modded the responsible file to increase the effect of each action, so that there is a point to doing them in the mid term and not only in the very long term and made simply being at war with someone no longer drag down your reputation.

[OverKnight]

OK, what happen to you updating the house maps? :P


Gee, I didn't realize that people missed my MSpaint projects. I've been a bit too busy as a historian to return to my cartography. :laugh4:

Seriously, 1228 is beginning to rival 1154 as the most documented year. Which is a good thing.

Edit: Also, the house maps haven't changed much. Lose a few, gain a few. . .

[econ21]

I would like to see less sacking - sacking is like playing on an easier difficulty level; lots of cash and eases public order problems. If it hits reputation too, that's another reason to curtail it. Maybe I'll propose a CA to limit it - it would create some interesting player interactions if dreadful generals insist on sacking. I doubt such a CA would pass though - you lot seem a pretty hardnosed bunch, heads in baskets, an' all.

On the scarce florins, I get the impression you have gone more for the guns rather than the butter in your Chancellorship. Under Henry, I had enough florins to continually build in every settlement worth building in from about the second turn on. I guess the armies for Outremer sucked up a lot of cash in your first half term.


Also, in vanilla 1.02 and before, the change in reputation is minute when you perform said action so basically your first 40 or so turns decide what reputation you end up on.

I'm not quite understanding this. Are you saying that lots of minute changes in the first 40 turns add up and so the odd good deed later does not matter? Because presumably lots of good deeds in the next 40 turns could reverse it. Or am I missing something?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Might not be able to play my battle in time. Is there anyone else in the stack that can fight for me? I figure we can justify this in-character as Conrad pulling the ol' switcheroo - he's already done it once.

[FactionHeir]

Well yes, your good deeds could reverse it in 40 later, but actually more than 40, because the further time advances, the less major incidents happen and you will already be suffering under the trigger lowering your rep for being at war for 40 turns. (note it reduces rep for every faction you are at war with except slave, so at war with 3 factions, take triple hit)

As for not having florins for buildings, I am actually aiming to build something in every settlement, plus since 10 turns passed, buildings get more expensive and cities develop. For example a turn starts with 30k during your chancellorship, you could build say 8 buildings. I can only build some 3-5 buildings in comparison.

[FactionHeir]

Fredericus could fight it if you don't want to, since his avatar is also sieging. In that case i'll upload 1228-7a

[OverKnight]

Before you do that FH, you might want to stick all the avatars in the army that will attack the city. That way all the avatars will get the nifty Crusaders attributes. Just a suggestion.

I took the same approach when taking Jerusalem.

[Warluster]

Quick Note: We're nearly on a new OOC thread.

How many OOC threads did you get through for the WotS game?

[FactionHeir]

Woulda loved to OK but avatars were already badly stretched for MP plus Fredericus already having been in the ZoC of Damascus and thus immovable.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, you have my permission to autoresolve (kinda anticlimatic, but I can't do anything about it). I'll actually fight the battle and write a report when I have time if you choose to have Conrad command.

[StoneCold]

FH, you can just seige it and wait another turn to move everyone into position, right?

[FactionHeir]

I could, but there isn't really a point other than to boost the characters OOCly as everything is in position.

Will autoresolve and let you know GH if FLYdude doesn't post in say 1hr, since he has read my PM.

[flyd]

Well, I was off playing the battle. Shall we officially count the result and proceed? The reinforcing avatars did indeed not receive crusade traits.

[econ21]

I could, but there isn't really a point other than to boost the characters OOCly as everything is in position.

I think we should try to maximise the number of player controlled battles, as they are much more fun for players than autoresolves. Presumably FLYdude could fight the battle manually if given the usual 48 hours grace? He's very reliable. I think you said desertion won't be a problem as we are in the target province. But it is your call.


Will autoresolve and let you know GH if FLYdude doesn't post in say 1hr, since he has read my PM.

Regardless, please could you have Elberhard moved to be part of the attacking stack? It might make a man of him yet. He's already marked as on crusade and has lots of MP. As Overknight said, I think we should get as many crusading generals in on the kill as we can - those end of crusade bonuses are massive. (Forget the historical army rules this once.) I'd be inclined to take an extra turn and make sure all the crusaders are in on the kill (exempting Otto and Henry, as they have been there, done that and got the t-shirt).

[econ21]

FLYdude - can you be persuaded to do it again after factionheir waits a turn? :eyebrows:

It does seem a terrible waste to drag all those avatars across Europe on the crusade and only one (relatively) old duffer gets rewarded.

[flyd]

Not a problem.

[FactionHeir]

:fainting:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

[OverKnight]

Nice write up FLYdude. :2thumbsup:

I feel kinda of sorry for that Egyptian commander, I think he got mauled by Henry and ransomed (?) only to make his way to Damascus to be immediatley besieged by the Mongols and then us. Poor bastard.

[flyd]

Bah, I don't feel sorry for him. Damn coward! I've no idea why he just sat there at the end, but I guess it made for an interesting ending. He was plenty active the first time I fought the battle, and died bravely in combat.

Speaking of bravery... Karl Zirn, contrary to what you said in the Diet thread, did not perform any acts of bravery. The way the battle ended up being set up, I was able to keep the generals out of the way a bit. I was forced to use them the first time I fought the battle, though, and Karl Zirn had, uh... too much bravery to later be named the Count of Damascus. Austria came very close to getting into avatar trouble again. Lucky we were greedy for more traits.

[OverKnight]

Ah. . .well, I really can't promote him by saying, "Karl Zirn, even though he sat on his arse eating schnitzel rather than fight at Damascus, will be made Count of that city because he's the only Austrian left in the Holy Land."


I'm glad we got greedy, Austria isn't fecund enough to throw avatars away.

[FactionHeir]

I think that was the best joke I heard in a while OK

Good fight FLYdude

[McIwoo]

Hello everyone,

I would like to ask permission to join this PBM in the service of the House of Bavaria as it doesn't seem overcrowded and fairly active.

I'm playing total war games since Shogun but I only recently arrived in the org community. I hope I'll be able to join you and have some fun.

[FactionHeir]

Sure, go ahead and pick an avatar (Page 1, Chancellor Governor Reports)

[Northnovas]

Ah. . .well, I really can't promote him by saying, "Karl Zirn, even though he sat on his arse eating schnitzel rather than fight at Damascus, will be made Count of that city because he's the only Austrian left in the Holy Land."


I'm glad we got greedy, Austria isn't fecund enough to throw avatars away.

That makes the title a little hollow under the circumstances with the whole Crusading thing.
Well there has always been some pity towards the House for lack of fruitful avatars. I would hope that would be the case and not from a lack of intellegence.

[Stig]

Thorn under siege?

Bring it on you Russian (?) :daisy: :whip:

[FactionHeir]

Polish. And its like 2 crossbows.
Only reason they dared is because Gunther and Peter are slightly south of Thorn to combine up (can't let Peter go up on his own because there was a large Polish army nearby)

[gibsonsg91921]

lol lemme at em!
im afraid henry's next and god dang siegfried von kastilien is going to be the prince and no one even controls him! and it would have been me if he hadnt come of age before henry died

lol

[Stig]

Heh, if it's the same Polish army as we've seen before I think the garrison should be able to take them on. Don't know tho, as we haven't seen the replay yet.

[FactionHeir]

Alright guys, I got 4 battles coming up, first come first serve:
Total clock counting from now: 72 hours

TinCow: Lothar Steffen+1 Teutonic regiment+Budapest garrison vs Hungarian army

Ignoramus: Ulrich Hümmel+Adana garrison vs Turks

Dutch_guy: Günther von Kastilien+FHA+Peter von Kastilien+2 peasant archer regiments vs Poles

Xdeathfire: Friedrich Scherer+SHA vs French army

Stig: Ansehelm von Kastilien+Thorn garrison vs Poles

Stig: Ansehelm von Kastilien vs Poles outside Thorn

Make sure you got fixes installed properly before fighting
First file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-2.rar [Currently in posession of Stig]

Second file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-3.zip [Currently in posession of Stig]

Third file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4.zip

[gibsonsg91921]

whos the new king of outremer? ulrich von hummel?

[FactionHeir]

Conrad Salier.

[gibsonsg91921]

wait so whats the deal with ulrich being "prinz of antioch" if he doesnt inherit outremer?

[FactionHeir]

I think Hümmel was reassigned as Count of Adana.

[econ21]

Welcome, McIwoo: I've updated the playlist in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors Reports thread to include two spare Bavarian avatars: Markus and Matthias Steffen. You are welcome to take your pick. Overknight is welcome too, if he wants to stay in the House of Bavaria (as most players seem to want to stay in their old House when reincarnated).

In the light of what gibson91921 has said about the succession, what is going on? Siegfried von Kastilien is so young and far away from Prinz Jobst in the family tree, I can't make sense of it. It seems random (perverse, even).

But we have to make do. Any one without an avatar or with an aging avatar want to pick up or reserve Siegfried? I'd prefer the Emperor/Prinzes to go to long-stayers who we know can be relied upon to stick with the PBM. Right now we have Ituralde and Overknight without avatars - would either of you consider switching House to pick up Siegfried? Alternatively, we might reserve Siegried for FLYdude as Fredericus is getting on a bit. I am sure any of those three players would do a great job as Emperor.

I could pick up Siegfried when Henry pops off, but I was starting to get attached (or resigned!) to the idea of Elberhard and anyway that would make it a bit of deja vu for everyone, so a fresh face might be best.

[FactionHeir]

Who becomes Prince is quite unreliable and even varies from turn to turn. It might even be that its not Siegfried. Remember when I ran the test and got it to be Peter? (Siegfried was of age by then too)
My more recent tests two turns ago designated Fredericus as Prince.

[gibsonsg91921]

wow
i think at this point, optimally, it would be arnold of austria

hes the grandson of heinrich, and sigismund's cousin who is the father of jobst. he is younger than jobst. he's a duke, royal born, yada yada yada.

[Stig]

Aye, it all depends on what you do, not even on turns. It's almost random. If I move a diplomat to Place A it might be Jack, but would I have moved it to Place B it might be George, that's how random it is.

[econ21]

OK, thanks factionheir and Stig. Forget what I said. We'll deal with the succession when it happens.

[Stig]

FH, why don't we sally out of Thorn, even if that other Polish army aids, 3 groups on knights should easely win. The FHA will be busy, as there's another Polish army coming it's way.

[FactionHeir]

I'm planning to have Peter or Günther drive the Poles away at Thorn after the first battle. More important to get Peter knighted first. Both of them at at full MP.

Scratch that, I just realized Ansehelm is inside Thorn. You want to fight them now? Just pick the save and let me know.

[Stig]

Aye I'm willing to fight it more or less now

[FactionHeir]

OK, updating posts.

[Stig]

I didn't do well
I lost 1 man

edit: savefile uploaded

[FactionHeir]

Well done :)

PM me the post battle screen please or post it somewhere

[Stig]

I don't really feel this battle even deserves a battle report, so here's the screen:
https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/the_Stig_/Forumite%20Battle%20Result/0060.jpg

I released the prisoners, as Ansehelm is a good man (sides crossbowmen militia is :daisy: anyway).
Oh, and before I forgot, Ansehelm gained 1 command, but I clicked the wrong button so that message is gone.

[FactionHeir]

Would you happen to be up to the task of attacking the Poles slightly outside Thorn with your force while noone else is having a go at their battles? (if so, please reply and also let me know the pre-battle odds for that battle)

[Stig]

That all depends on what the battle odds are (tho it should be an easy win anyway). I'm not doing anything now, so I'll take a look.

[gibsonsg91921]

hey FH ooc i think ur a swell chancellor but IC im going to hate u ok?:laugh4:

[Stig]

Heh, those Poles retreat if you attack them. So I moved in again, and the battle odds are 10:3

[FactionHeir]

Meh, I'll give you some therapy ICly then. Yanno, brainwash and stuff.

[FactionHeir]

Have at em Stig. Noting down that you are in posession of the save

[edit]
Btw, make sure you only attack them with 2 units of knights (so 1 GB and 1 cav unit). 3 is illegal :wink2:

[Stig]

Righto, even then it should still be easy.

Btw, I take it I can move all the men back into Thorn after the battle. Can I recruit some mercenaries on the way back (I've seen a dangerous looking Russian army at our borders, and it can siege Thorn next turn). Taking that in mind I suggest Thorn recruits as much as it can.
Edit: the bloody Poles refused to pay the ransom, damned.
That'll be a tough siege next turn, I bet ya.

Can I move Ansehelm back into Thorn?


And again I'm getting worse and worse:
https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/the_Stig_/Forumite%20Battle%20Result/0064.jpg

[FactionHeir]

I'll be fixing up recruitment at the end of turn. Will keep additional garrison for Thorn in mind, but I already have a large force en route to reinforce the FHA from Staufen.

[Stig]

Oh, and btw, Ansehelm gained a loyalty in that battle

[FactionHeir]

Heh, you might just gain more influence in future votes if you keep that up ~:)

Let me know the new odds please though and when you upload the save

[Stig]

Which odds?
I fought the battle (screenie above edited in) as the odds were 10:3

[FactionHeir]

Ah, I thought the 10:3 were when you had all three cav units in your stack.

[Stig]

They were the same with 3 cav and 2 cav

Savefile uploaded, Ansehelm back in Thorn. As Thorn would otherwise seriously lack defence (15 Mailed Knights, erhhh)

[gibsonsg91921]

o man, i'm in for it now

[StoneCold]

Ya, I notice that in an argument in the diet, it is almost impossible to back down gracefully... :P

[FactionHeir]

Is that why you don't participate? :)

[gibsonsg91921]

I just love arguing though. When I was Maximillian von Tyrolia, the merchant, I warned against the Kaiser's pagan ways. When I was Ehrhart von Mahren (im trying to not act like i was Ehrhart in my present argument but its hard), I argued with King Otto about something or other. And now, I argue with the Chancellor and eldest son of the Emperor. I dont choose many smart people lol.

Btw, like most Franconians, Péter's piety is less than the standard three, thus i ridicule the Pope.

like i said, hans, nothing personal. i just like to raise a ruckus - the diet needs the activity it brings about neways

[FactionHeir]

You might ridicule the pope, but in the end you'd have to agree that none of the "silly strong believers from other nations" (ridicule the other factions' piety) would dare attack the pope, so having Durazzo in the pope's hands is perfect :D

Btw I'd strongly suggest you get Peter out of the argument before he makes a fool of himself. I mean really. Now he's making up wild conspiracy stories and ends up learning that everyone else was involved in drawing up the plans. I almost feel sorry....almost ~:)

[gibsonsg91921]

yeah im thinkin of stopping soon

conspiracy theories? i was just saying that if that was your plans all along to give it away, then your plans are crap lol

edit: now my own brother is against me, out of character. i stink haha

2edit: "the death of ehrhart has affected me personally" i thought that was a clever, subtle joke.

[StoneCold]

FH, yes, that's one reason. haha. Also I am never a very good RP, never could immerse myself as the character, so for me it is more fun to watch from the sideline... ahahha

[gibsonsg91921]

well now, hows that for kick-starting the Diet?

i think i was noble in defeat, eventually

edit - geez! 600 replies in this topic since may 27th!

[FactionHeir]

Psst econ might lock it if you say that so loud! :dancinglock:

StoneCold: You could still play just as a general without much debate. Someone who just fights and keeps mostly out of politics.

[gibsonsg91921]

debatings the most fun part - planning ur arguments, rallying support, admitting that it was you who shot JFK

[StoneCold]

Yes, we do alot of background disccusion here instead of in the diet I guess... :P

Btw, FH, if you are going to give up Sofia, where in God's name are you building a leather tanner there then, wasting resources... :P Regarding playing, I also don't have the game and a system that can play it, haha...

Ya, think econ might be locking this thread soon, over the 20 page limit now. :P

[FactionHeir]

I didn't say we were giving up Sofia, did I? I mean I'm even training our very first regiment of Gothic knights there at the moment and it now has a swordsmith guild :D

[edit]
Besides, I have a bad feeling that the Byzantines might be backstabbing us soon after they take Thessalonica.

[StoneCold]

Oh... I thought the plan was to give it up... :P now we just make the border longer... haha, oh well...

[Stig]

Well we certainly should stop conquering now, otherwise we win this game to quickly ... unless there's an option to continue playing after taking 50 provinces.

[StoneCold]

Btw, what happen to the french crusade? Is anyone or army moving up there to shadow it?

[gibsonsg91921]

none of my old avatars died at sofia, so i dont care as much except that we have gothic knights and a swordsmiths guild. what a waste that would be lol

[StoneCold]

With the pope, I am now wondering is that enough to trigger the expansionist pope... :P I guess that also depends on the character of the pope?

[gibsonsg91921]

we should keep playing until we conquer the world!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, but then it won't be fun. We need to be challenged for as long as we can.

[Stig]

With the pope, I am now wondering is that enough to trigger the expansionist pope... :P I guess that also depends on the character of the pope?
I currently have a campaign going myself with Spain (and for my standards I'm doing pretty well). The pope has loads of Italy in that one, and is the strongest military power. He has Rome, Genoa, Florence, Bologna, Naples, Ajaccio and Cagliari.


Yeah, but then it won't be fun. We need to be challenged for as long as we can.
Aye, that's why I suggest giving Paris to France and Sofia to the Byzantines.
For Paris I believe it was in no edict that it could be taken, sides we sorta killed France of by taking it.

[FactionHeir]

The scripts force the pope not to attack factions that are catholic and non excommunicated. So they do get rather active if around excommed catholics.
And yes, there is an option to allow playing after winning. We are at ~32 settlements at the moment though, so still 13 off.
The French are being shadowed by an assassin and I got reinforcements coming from the west.

[gibsonsg91921]

Yeah, but then it won't be fun. We need to be challenged for as long as we can.

well we can make it harder on ourselves internally, with politcal strife. when the 4 houses get bigger we can establish new ones. new kingdoms like outremer, political parties, etc. thats what i go for whenever i gripe in the diet. timurids will be a pain, mongols are coming still, black death, america

we need more arguments. me and FH went on for 18 replies if u include GH's as well.

[econ21]

Page 21 and about the mid-term of factionheir's term - time for a new thread.