View Full Version : Hoping for no honour points
TakedaTakedaTakemata
06-09-2002, 23:49
Hoping for no honour points
Why I’m hoping for a no honour points ranking system in MTW.
I have seen and believe number of good players not really wanting to take part in playing the points system.
All will have their own reason for this so I will let them say for their self if they have a mind to.
My reasons for wanting an end to it are
1st it will stop the less gifted from trying to steel their way up to the higher points and giving newer players the chance to play the game without having some no good trying to trap then into playing for honour points. (Using all the known types of cons and tricks they use for this). And putting many a person in the position of believing that this is the right way of getting honour, points by any means is OK and a way to be seen as a good player is to get as much as possible.
2nd, It will take away some of the arrogance of some players from playing newer players, in the current game this annoys a lot of people, I’m talking about friendly games for this bit, and the sort of player that says look at me I’ve got all this honour point and only play people equal to me because I’m so good. Some will say this is not true it’s more about not wanting to play the undercover players. If that is the excuse some use for not playing 100 honour names in friendless. I would say anyone any good will not care about undercover name users in a friendly they will be ready for any and all comers.
3rd it will help to stop the use of multiple names being used if you are new and not being stolen from you will find little use for more than one or two names.
4th for the truly talented not having the points thing to concern themselves with, would free them up for more tournaments and campaign type challenges and give them a chance to show of some of their talent and get real recondition for their hard work in becoming masters of the game.
5th single map use and arcade robot style of play would not be used so much, if a number of tournaments were in place and being organised by clans, and by others using numerous maps and army types. A player would be more likely to use more army and map types just to keep up with the demands of this.
MagyarKhans Cham
06-10-2002, 02:39
true but
1) friendlies makes u sloppy
2) arrogance is a virtue (or not?)
3) friendlies or not , some people will always cheat
4) points will attract challenges
5) it wont stop our Khan from having more than 1 name
TakedaTakedaTakemata
06-10-2002, 14:55
Khan
Many look to be as you and others; they can not, so will use any way to get the points and prestige that points will bring them. Those that use the other way will not be a problem for you and a number of others, but are a big problem of the game when you take a look to see what it’s doing, and the way it changes some of the newer players. Maybe I’m naive but some of the things that people will do for any scrap of honour point (not just the out and out cheat) but the other types of deception as well, I find hard to take and understand.
Also for someone who will play 100 honour with your real name in one on one, respect to you and some others big point players for it.
In lieu of an honor-points system it would make more sense to have a more supervised sort of boxing championship style ratings system.. at least it's a thought.
Matt
1 nick/cd key. I like FastCubs suggestion of subnicks in case you have a brother/sister or want to experiment with tactics.
Parent nick MagyarKhan. Subnicks contain the parent nick: MagyarKhan Subudai, MagyarKhan Djebbe, MagyarKhan Atilla. Each having its own user password.
1) friendlies makes u sloppy
It is a challenge not to be sloppy in a friendly.
2) arrogance is a virtue (or not?)
Arrogance is a sign of unawareness.
3) friendlies or not , some people will always cheat
True.
4) points will attract challenges
Points will cause newbies to be 'ignored' as you can't gain but lose points from them.
5) it wont stop our Khan from having more than 1 name
A biochip with unique DES encrypted ID in your frontal cortex will. Will be required to activate the next version of Windows OS.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Quote Originally posted by TosaInu:
1) friendlies makes u sloppy
It is a challenge not to be sloppy in a friendly.
2) arrogance is a virtue (or not?)
Arrogance is a sign of unawareness.
...
4) points will attract challenges
Points will cause newbies to be 'ignored' as you can't gain but lose points from them.
5) it wont stop our Khan from having more than 1 name
A biochip with unique DES encrypted ID in your frontal cortex will. Will be required to activate the next version of Windows OS.
[/QUOTE]
ROFLMAO
On #2... Friendlies only encourange mediocrity if the player does not play each game with equal enthusiasm. Some of us play the same whether its comp or friendly, because we do not distinguish between the two. For us, 'friendly' is just bait to attract new prey.
On #4... It will also cause undercover brothers to be ignored. How many times have I been asked to leave a comp game because my paltry 80 honor was deemed too low for those 140+ honor pigs? How many actually played me? I can count the latter on one hand. The former, I'd need some volunteers... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
On #5... ROFLMAO Multi-nicks will always be around. Why else do you think none of youz created nicks that consist of your ACTUAL names? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Quote Originally posted by TosaInu:
1 nick/cd key. I like FastCubs suggestion of subnicks in case you have a brother/sister or want to experiment with tactics.
Parent nick MagyarKhan. Subnicks contain the parent nick: MagyarKhan Subudai, MagyarKhan Djebbe, MagyarKhan Atilla. Each having its own user password.
[/QUOTE]
Yup this would solve many problems i think.I just hope they implement this? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Something else that has been suggested over and over is that there would be the possibility that INSTEAD of the usual family name members of a particular clan would have their clan name as family name...
Examples:
MagyarKhan Wolves
Terazawa Kenchikuka
TosaInu Takiyama
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Hirosito
06-11-2002, 00:34
not a bad idea but not everyone is in a clan
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Konnichiwa,
Think in options Hirosito san.
AmpMortog Hojo (Japanese list their family names first, but this system makes it easier to find nicks in the list) for those without a clan.
Takiyama Yuuki Sanada for those who prefer to list their clan.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Exactly.
Getting back to the honour number discussion - without any doubt the current honour system is to THROW away. If an official league has to be run, the developers MUST maintain it and give a helping hand.
Otherwise we must "liberalise" the honour system "market" - more space for things like the Golden Axe ladder or so. Those who play CS know what I mean...
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
MagyarKhans Cham
06-11-2002, 01:59
Quote Maybe I’m naive but some of the things that people will do for any scrap of honour point (not just the out and out cheat) but the other types of deception as well, I find hard to take and understand.[/QUOTE]
with people doing this for a single point shows real honour, more than the socalled "wearethemosthonourableclan" air/attitude some clans wear.
My Khan learned a lot when undercover playing some "honourable" veterans when they host comp games. Thats why he never joined the SHS.
My Khan is in favour of one name per CD-key as well, with a variable suffix/prefix.
Furthermore the points tells my Khan when he joins an unknown name what army to field. if someone has 130+ points he will field a stronger army than someone who has 100-120 points.
HardRock
06-11-2002, 14:44
Yes points system seems to have upset lots of players. Like the old shogun. Have points but don't show them to all.
Sjakihata
06-11-2002, 15:15
Undercover? What do you mean? To check other players, that they play honourably to all players, and not just the them whom they know as friends?
And about the point system, you should not liberalise it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Any suggestions, how exactly would you do?
Old STW:
1: 'What's your honor?'
2: 'Honor?'
1: 'Your rank...'
2: 'I Live in Holland and I'm fine, thanks, how are you?'
1: 'How many points do you have?'
2: 'I got an A today for maths, Annie only had a B...'
1: 'Your honorpoints in the STW ladder.'
2: 'Ladder?'
1: 'The competition, start your webbrowser and visit http://www.totalwar.com.'
2: 'Great! I'll go look.'
5 minutes later...
2: 'Hello? I'm there, but I can't find it.'
1: 'Hold on I'll watch for the direct url'
15 secs later
1: 'http://totalwar.ea-europe.com/Players/PlayerSearch.asp'
2: 'Ok, thanks m8.'
1 minute later.
2: 'I'm there, what should I do now?'
1: 'Type your nick in the player box and search...'
2: 'Nick, what's a nick?'
1: 'The name you are using here: 2.'
2: 'Oh, ok.'
5 minutes later.
2: 'I found it: honor: 82 :-).'
1: 'You suck'
Hirosito
06-11-2002, 16:08
there is no need for any of this, just record the wins and losses (maybe draws as well soon) in a table and that's it.
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
He he...
Let the central authority record all data, but divulge NONE. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Then, each player can opt to get Vanya's free log reader to track the bastids they have hunted down over the years. This way, you can see people's record against you.
And, those in a clan, can merge their databases to create their own small 'GWIS'-like intel sources.
It would be a brave new world...
Quote Originally posted by Hirosito:
there is no need for any of this, just record the wins and losses (maybe draws as well soon) in a table and that's it.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, yeah! And in the absence of 'honor points', some players will simply revert to counting wins.
It amounts to the same phenomena, just with a different semantic.
TakedaTakedaTakemata
06-11-2002, 23:25
Every one thanks for taking the time for posting. I know some of the things I’m saying about honour points in the current game and wanting a no honour points system in MTW, will be seen by some as the wrong way to go and that is their right. (So if they can tell me some good reasons for keeping it or ways to deal with it I think it would be useful)
What I would like to see is a better online MTW. And if some of this is not sorted out now it will have to be sorted out some time after the new game starts.
Maybe I did not explain myself well when I was talking about stealing honour points and deception, so I will try to now,
I do not have a problem with the ordinary people in the game taking part in comp games; I have done them myself and probably may well do more of them. But what I will not except is some trying to trap me with timers or other ways, or others trying to force me into a game by any means which are expectable to them, by this I mean continues goading pride rippers abuses language and any thing else they can think of to use for this just to get honour points. And if you are 100 honour which is their favourite target the happier they will be.
It’s not a question about losing honour points to some or gaining them its about being able to play the game in some sort of peace and enjoyment, If you are fool enough to play them like I have been, and they lose this will only make it worse. I will normally play anyone that will play me comp or friendly but I will not play this sort at all if I can avoid it. And so long as points are involved with no limits on these people, this sort of person will be there ready to steel abuse and crush the enjoyment of others. There will still be some in friendly games as well but hopefully they would be less. I’ve been playing the game on and of for about 8 months, so I’m not exactly new to the goings on in this game it took me more than one or two of these months to find ways of avoiding this sort of person. Which I should never of had to do in the first place.
Ignore is not the answer to some of the problems so long as multy names are available.
I like the use of more than one name myself but as Fastcub, Tosainu, Hirosito and others have talked about some changes need to be made and a limit put on the number of names available. Ignore will have real effect then.
And this might be one of the answers or arguments for keeping the points system.Fastcub obviously put a lot of thought into this and I think it would be some help to both clans and individuals.
Terazawa also made a good point that as been made by some others as well, the developers of the game could do a lot more about maintaining it and lending some sort of hand. Any safe guards they can put into the online game would be more then welcome. And some sort of easy accesses complaints system. Would also help a lot.
Vanya as said it’s better than I am able too about friendlys mixed with comps or just playing friendlys and for people not wanting to go above a 100 honour they should not be made to feel they have to do it, if they do not want to, and it would be nice if more make an effort to play them. And others stop seeing them as a source of fuel for making fun of or an easy source of honour points. If the new want to take part in comp games I think it will give some of them a lot of pleasure but no pleasure will be had from playing the steelier the cheat or the con man. So any one that would like to see them keep their trust or their enthusiasm for the game will also like to keep them away from these sort of player.
And yes Khan I am naive when it comes to damaging others for the sake of ridicule or points.
I do not understand it and well never except it.
And hopefully you have just misunderstood what I have said about getting any scrap of honour point.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khan7:
[B]In lieu of an honor-points system it would make more sense to have a more supervised sort of boxing championship style ratings system.. at least it's a thought.
This also sounds like a good idea would allow for the needs of all, maybe you could say some more on this Khan 7.
Long post I know but there is much to be said and I will not have time for a week or more to add to this or reply to anyone.
Well, if there are MANY players and M:TW will be a HUGE game...then I don't know why the ladder "market" shouldn't be "liberalised".
Anyway tho, M:TW won't be no CS...
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
HardRock
06-12-2002, 14:12
Just don't have it where all the players can see your points!
Konnichiwa,
Just don't have it where all the players can see your points!
-What's the use of that?
-Special Elite Veteran players only?
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Hirosito
06-12-2002, 20:59
yeah i don't really see the point in that either.
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
I have no probelm with the honor points. On average they show the capabilities of the player. If you see a guy with 76 HP joining your game you can be reasonably sure that he is newbie. In a similar way if a fella with 140+ joins your game you might expect some quality of play. Note, that I said that on average. Of course there are undercover vets on the one hand, and cheaters on the other hand, but IMO that is not the majority. Moreover, this is not the fault of the honor point system. This is more about cheating and multiply nicks.
Cheetah has a good point.
Too many names...I hate playing a guy with 140 honour without knowing who he is. And since they are undercover there is a lot of foul language in the foyer. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
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