Blu-Ray disc VS HD Disc

[The Spartan (Returns)]

i need an idiot's explanation to the blu-ray disc, is it better than the HD disc, and how it works. one highlight for me of getting the PS3 is it uses blu-ray. so when i play a PS3 game (or any game even PS2) is the picure HD no matter what tv i use? or do i have to use specific tv ? or how does it work?

thanks.

[lars573]

For an HD signal you need and HDTV no matter what. PS2 games aren't upscaled. The biggest difference between the two is storage capacity. A single layer of Blu-ray has 10 gigs more space than HD-DVD. Picture is about the same.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And dont buy either until the industry makes up its mind or you may well get screwed if you pick the loser. Even if its better.

Unless you have money to burn.

[sapi]

Don't buy either blu-ray or hd-dvd movies until one has gained market supremacy unless you want to experience a repeat of the betamax debacle.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Don't buy either blu-ray or hd-dvd movies until one has gained market supremacy unless you want to experience a repeat of the betamax debacle.

Didnt I just say that :furious3:

And yes Beta was far better.

[Kuni]

wait until a clear winner emerges before you commit to either blu-ray or hd-dvd's!

~D ~D ~D

(sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Xiahou]

I'd put my money on HD-DVD if I was going to bet. Personally though, I'm not interested in either at this time.

Most of us don't have the equipment to fully utilize what standard DVDs are capable of- why would I want or need a new format? All it does for most of us is just implement more draconian copy protection measures than we enjoy with current DVDs. :shrug:

[sapi]

I'd put my money on HD-DVD if I was going to bet. Personally though, I'm not interested in either at this time.I hear that the pr0n industry is behind it :dodgy: Apparently that's important ~:)



Most of us don't have the equipment to fully utilize what standard DVDs are capable of- why would I want or need a new format?Well, sitting here on a 22" monitor running at 1680x1050 (or roughly 250% of dvd resolution) I could use higher quality movies, for sure.

TVs, though, which are quite low in resolution compared to computer screens, won't see much of a difference, except at the high end.

[Husar]

There's a new LG drive that can read both formats and burn Blu-Rays. It alsop reads DVDs and CDs I think(not sure about burning them) and costs around 1200$ or so...:juggle2:

[Lemur]

I'm pretty darn happy with my setup, which is a DIVX-compatible line-doubling DVD player feeding into a 720P monitor. Why I need anything better is unclear to me.

[sapi]

@Lemur - to take this off topic for a moment, will a divx compatible player also play xvid?

[Lemur]

@Lemur - to take this off topic for a moment, will a divx compatible player also play xvid?
Mine will. My brother brought a different model, and it does as well. My impression is that the DIVX-compatible DVD players will support all of the major related codecs.

It's the cat's pajamas.


(Lemur, I can't find whether ripping DVDs in the manner you suggest is legal or not, so to err on the side of caution, I've deleted that part of your post. Feel free to correct me if you have the info - Beirut)

[Bob the Insane]

Well I picked up the HD-DVD drive to go with my 360 so I have taken the plunge (I do have an HDTV before anyone asks :laugh4: )...

Picture is really nice on the HD-DVD movies, but it is better to aviod the older movies as then have been upscaled and where not really HD...

It is amazing how much of a repeat of history this... VHS and Betamax (Betamax being Sony and the technically better format) vs HD-DVD and BlueRay (BlueRay again Sony and technically better with the addition of HD sound)... Will Sony price themselves out of the market again, we shall see... Sticking it is the PS3 may well prove to be a deciding factor as most PS2 owners will eventually make the switch at some point...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It is amazing how much of a repeat of history this... VHS and Betamax (Betamax being Sony and the technically better format) vs HD-DVD and BlueRay (BlueRay again Sony and technically better with the addition of HD sound)... Will Sony price themselves out of the market again, we shall see... Sticking it is the PS3 may well prove to be a deciding factor as most PS2 owners will eventually make the switch at some point...

Thats not quite what happened. In fact Sony invented both Beta and VHS but seeing that VHS was inferior sold the rights to Panasonic. Problem for one thing was that VHS could record or play for a longer period. The other is that more software companies went with VHS. Remember when Beta came out there were no movies, or video stores. People bought them to use like Tivos to record shows at home and watch them later. That all came later.
I remember we were the first video store on long island. It started because we owned the Oyster Bay Theater and my little brother who was 16 at the time was into beta
As soon as movies started to come out on them he started buying them. Something people dont realise today is those movies averaged $100 to 120$ apiece to buy. Anyway after he had collected around 20 or so he started renting them out of the ticket booth while he sold tickets. All the money he made went towards buying more videos. After a while the entire lobby was filled with videos and they were making more money of that than the theater so they sodd it and moved into the shopping center next door. You paid 50 dollars to join and you got squat except the right to rent. We had only Beta until VHS came out and then had one side of the store for each. What a pain in the butt that was.

[Stuperman]

IIRC with the newest firmware PS3's do upscale ps2 games to HD, but without an HDTV it's moot. from what I've read blu-ray looks like it's winning right now, but toshiba just said that all future laptops will have a hd-dvd player inside, so wait and see.

[Bob the Insane]

Thats not quite what happened.

Thanks for the correction... Very interesting...

What did you do with all the Beta cassettes in the end??

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Still have a few and some machines. Sold off most of them long ago. The best format is still Laser Disc IMO. Sort of another tale of two formats.

[Lemur]

(Lemur, I can't find whether ripping DVDs in the manner you suggest is legal or not, so to err on the side of caution, I've deleted that part of your post. Feel free to correct me if you have the info - Beirut)
At the moment, what I'm doing for my kids is legal in the U.S.A. You are allowed to make backups of DVDs you own, to use in a manner you see fit. So when I rip Little Mermaid and Finding Nemo to Xvid for convenient playback, I'm in the clear.

However, in time this may become verboten (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2148802,00.asp):


A proposed amendment to the current copy protection license governing DVDs would completely ban all DVD backups, and prevent DVD playback without the DVD disk being present inside the drive.

The proposed amendment was made public in a letter sent by Michael Malcolm, the chief executive of Kaleidescape, a DVD jukebox company which successfully defeated a suit by the DVD Copy Control Association (DVD CCA) this past March. The proposed amendment is scheduled for a vote on Wednesday, according to Malcolm.

Hmm, doing a little more digging (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5128652-1.html), it appears that U.S. law contradicts itself on this issue. Fair Use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use) indicates that we, as consumers, have a right to backup legally owned media. The DMCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA), however, makes it a crime to break the encryption on a DVD. So if I'm reading this right, I am okay having a backup of Spirited Away, but I break the law by decrypting the disk. Freaky.


The ability to create copies of the media you've purchased for personal use is a long-accepted facet of the fair-use doctrine in U.S. copyright law (at least, it used to be). However, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) states that it's illegal to break the CSS copy-protection mechanism employed by most commercial DVD movies. What does that mean? Most fair-use advocates say that the policy directly contradicts U.S. copyright law, but the DMCA seems to indicate that you cannot make a copy of a commercial DVD, even for personal use, and you certainly cannot give a copied DVD to anyone or watch copied DVD files on your computer. We assume that fair use will eventually catch up and be established as a safety valve for consumers (which has been the pattern with previous technologies, such as VHS), but for now, the territory is still uncertain and a bit dangerous.

The new motto for intellectual property law in the U.S.A. should be Walt Whitman's: "Do I contradict myself? Then I contradict myself. I am large, and contain multitudes."

[Husar]

Seriously, if I buy a DVD, I do with it what I want as long as I keep it private and for myself, if they want to criminalize me for that and ruin my life that way, just go ahead, I may never get a job and rely on the state then.:laugh4:
Then again, I don't usually make copies since it's way too complicated, at least with freeware.
Last time I tried to get Black Hawk Down onto my cellphone I had to try at least ten freeware programs, rip it once, then convert it from one format to something WMP could read and then the space on my cellphone didn't suffice...
And try to find rippers and converters that don't have watermarks unless you pay...
Maybe I'm just not good enough in that respect, but if I can copy all my CDs to my cellphone with WMP, why can't I copy my DVD movies as well? It just doesn't make sense...:wall:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And try to find rippers and converters that don't have watermarks unless you pay...
Maybe I'm just not good enough in that respect, but if I can copy all my CDs to my cellphone with WMP, why can't I copy my DVD movies as well? It just doesn't make sense.

I have no problem copying anything on disc. But Im afraid sharing this knowledge is against org rules :laugh4:

[Blodrast]

stuff about making backups of DVDs you own

We've had this conversation several times in here, Lemur. I remember well 'cause I argued a lot with Xiahou about it. ~D
Yes, it is currently illegal in the US to make a copy of a DVD you own, precisely because the DMCA forbids circumventing ANY sort of encryption or copy-protection mechanism.

I'm surprised you don't remember the discussion(s), since you took part as well. Then again, maybe my posts about that were just ignored. :juggle2:

We're not arguing the morality or absurdity of it, just the legality of it. Yes, it is stupid and silly, and of course nobody is going to prosecute you for that, but it is still illegal, according to the law.

IIRC, they ammended this in 2007 (or late 2006), giving a bit more leeway to libraries, I think. But this part stayed in the DMCA.

Oh, and Beirut, a very similar DMCA-like law is coming to Canada pretty soon, too (well, relatively speaking - when the Parliament resumes its work after the summer holidays, of course). So far it's just a bill, and likely won't be approved before the summer holidays (if they haven't even started already). :thumbsdown:

[Lemur]

Then again, maybe my posts about that were just ignored. :juggle2:
Whoa, whoa, it's a little early in the morning for that sort of thing, isn't it?

I do recall the discussions, but I don't recall them being conclusive. It seems to be that having an immaculately conceived copy of a film you already own would be legal.

I find the current situation beyond silly, and I can't wait for things to change. Can't stand people telling me how I can or cannot use things I already own in my own home. Fair Use FTW!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Yes, it is currently illegal in the US to make a copy of a DVD you own,

I dont think so. Its illegal to distribute it. Also what about those that are not encrypted.

[Lemur]

That's an easy one. If you own an unencrypted DVD, making a backup is 100% legal, no ambiguity.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That's an easy one. If you own an unencrypted DVD, making a backup is 100% legal, no ambiguity.

Cool so if I go to the city and buy a copy thats already been broken I can make all the copies I like:laugh4:

Can anyone site me this law. I make copies of every dvd I own and put the originals away. In fact I was told by a detective that as long as you remove all trademarks from a movie you can even sell it and theres no way they cant convict you of anything.

[Lemur]

Can anyone site me this law.
The DVD-specific clause is contained in the DMCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA), also known as Contender For Stupidest Law Ever Written, or NAMBLA.

I make copies of every dvd I own and put the originals away. In fact I was told by a detective that as long as you remove all trademarks from a movie you can even sell it and theres no way they cant convict you of anything.
Selling or distributing a ripped work is also clear-cut: It's illegal. (Although there is the so-called "Mix Tape Exception," which I'm not going to get into.) Your detective friend may believe that no prosecution will be successful, but that doesn't mean you're within the bounds of the law.

Given that disks are a physical medium, one prone to scratches and degradation, I think it's absurd that anyone is trying to make it fully illegal to make backups. Fight piracy all you like, sir, but keep your filthy hands off my legally owned media. In the privacy of my own home, with media I legally purchased, I can do as I like, so long as I don't start fires or start distributing.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You will never be arrested for having 1 copy of your own DVDs unless their after you for something bigger. It wont stand up in court if you push it. You may have to go to SCOTUS and have very deep pockets however :laugh4:

I was just in court. I sell real dvds and I had some boot legs I had just picked up off some chinese guy in my car. I was in a barber shop getting a hair cut and seeing if any of them wanted to buy any dvds. All of a sudden like 10 detectives roll in . It seems one of them(my sons friend) was selling steriods their and they came to check all their licenses and case the joint. They saw my movies and of course think Im a bootlegger. They start ripping open my product and after about 5 I say hey. Your ruining my stuff. I say theres no bootlegs in their their all legal. So now they want to know where i got them. I tell them from my brothers store. They go well wheres you car. At the time I had no license so I said I dont have a car. They say well how did you get here. I said my bro dropped me off. Well they look on 1 of the dvds and see the stores name and number and give it a call. The manager answers and they ask if he sells me movies. He says sure, They ask is his brother there. He puts him. They say did you drop your bro off. He says no. Now their pissed cause I lied to them and they didnt bust any body. They keep asking me where my car is and I keep saying I dont have one. I tell them i have more than one bro. Whats his #. Hes on the road :laugh4: He dont have a cell phone. They search me and find my keys and say do we have to try every car out there. Was only 3 :wall:

They go you got any boot legs in there. I go maybe 5 or 10. They see I have like 700 dvds in my car and I give them the 10 I bought. They friggin arrested me LOL. Then they charge me the 350 bucks I have in my pocket for bail and let me go. Good thing they didnt search me and find my weed. A lawyer tells me he can beat the case but it costs more than its worth. A 500 dollar fine. So i plead guilty. Another case of blind justice.

[AntiochusIII]

:laugh4: Nice story Gawain.

Ah well the real r0x05z pirates kind of do it in the privacy of their own homes...but that's not something to be discussed on the Org. Good and halfway not really bad people (landlubbers) usually suffers from the law more often than the eye-patched ones.

About the topic...the war is inconclusive IMO. HD got the pr0n, but pr0n power isn't what it used to be since everyone can get free porn off the net. Sony dominates Japan and get more studio support in Hollywood, but Toshiba is fighting back...

I don't care really. I'm still walking around without an iPod, what do I care about some future generation format war?

[Blodrast]

Whoa, whoa, it's a little early in the morning for that sort of thing, isn't it?

Nah, I'm never up in the morning.
And I don't drink coffee. ~D



I do recall the discussions, but I don't recall them being conclusive. It seems to be that having an immaculately conceived copy of a film you already own would be legal.

Well, I'll give you that the DMCA is anything but coherent ~D, but on this one there's no argument: it clearly states that it is illegal to circumvent any protection (without special dispensation for "silly" or really straightforward-to-circumvent cases).

Also, unless you made the movie yourself (i.e., home video), it is not going to be immaculate - if you buy a dvd, it will have FBI stuff, a bunch of "piracy is evil" propaganda, etc. You cannot duplicate that.



I find the current situation beyond silly, and I can't wait for things to change. Can't stand people telling me how I can or cannot use things I already own in my own home. Fair Use FTW!

I agree with you. There is hope, EFF and other groups do make a difference. The sheer arrogance and stupidity of the big industry also helps a lot.
For some good news, as you may already know, more are ditching DRM. That's a step in the right direction, at least.


A bit more on immaculate copies: the studios have been bragging a lot lately about watermarking and how that's gonna be the be-all end-all solution to all their troubles (in other words, like all the other copy protection schemes that were broken).
So you may get a hold of a copy that looks ok, but can be traced back to its source through the watermarking it contains (thus being proof of the fact that you may have acquired it illegally).
It is also possible that the watermarking has already been removed. ~D

Gawain: just like Lemur pointed out, neither of us said you're gonna get arrested/charged for making copies of your own DVDs. The discussion was whether it is legal to do so.

Also, Gawain, you're right: the RIAA/MPAA etc have been mostly counting on intimidation - most people settle and choose not to go to court. Of those who do go to court, there were quite a few resounding successes, where the **AA had been caught with their pants down, either for using illegal procedure (counting on the ignorance of people), or not having any actual solid proof of the "crime". But, like I said, most people choose not to go to court - and yes, like you said, you need deep pockets to stand a chance against their money machines and their armies of lawyers.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Also, unless you made the movie yourself (i.e., home video), it is not going to be immaculate - if you buy a dvd, it will have FBI stuff, a bunch of "piracy is evil" propaganda, etc. You cannot duplicate that.


I wonder just how much money the government collects because their fines are lower than the lawyer fees needed to fight them in court. Might be a good though for a back room thread.

(Ummmmmm... no - Beirut)

[Beirut]

You may discuss the why but please refrain from the how.

In matters of "piracy" we will, in bovine obedience to the gods of copyright, moo on the side of caution.

Thanks.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

You may discuss the why but please refrain from the how.


Did I say how there? If so sorry.

[Beirut]

Did I say how there?

Not really how, but you did mention doing things that are verbotten.

As I said, we must moo on the side of caution in these matters.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Damn I wish I could remember what I posted :laugh4: