View Full Version : CAN YOU FIGHT IN BATTLE?
bruteztrausen
05-31-2002, 01:33
CAN YOU FIGHT IN FIRST PERSON IN BATTLE? IT WOULD BE EXCITING
Erado San
05-31-2002, 02:25
No you can't.
Stop using all caps. All over the net in forums and boards it is considered like shouting and cursing.
Mithrandir
05-31-2002, 02:31
LOL, it's true...
and it's so damn funny...
really, step away from your pc...
shouting ,being offended beause someone writes in caps hehe funny http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
The Black Ship
06-01-2002, 09:08
For a while when they kept saying things about "individual character development" I thought they might do some first person fighting (like in Sea Dogs), but it appears it'll be more like Tropico's "pick from our list of traits/vices".
It would have been interesting to say the least to gain "Honour" or "Skill" for your King by slashing some AI driven automaton.
Capital letters are meant to highlight stuff. Typing in all caps is like using a highlighter then highlighting everything. It's a very big eyesore.
On to the post, I hate first-person view because it makes me dizzy. We already have too many games like that and too few strategic games. Unless they make it so that you won't be able to benefit much from that, it just reduces strategy and increases the twitch part of the game.
Hirosito
06-01-2002, 21:53
the very old game pirates had a mode where you fought the opposing captain when boarding their ship. i really liked that. but i agree it should be an option. it would be cool the take the role of the ninja (assasin) when trying to murder someone yourself
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
u have to admit,it would be very cool,think about kessin,or dynastiy warriors!
Dionysus9
06-04-2002, 22:58
Dynasty warriors is a fun arcade-style game...but (to me) it's only fun for awhile because eventually you are just mindlessly slaughtering foes with no real tactical or strategic opportunities for greatness. It's just a glorified Double-Dragon with very little thinking required to do well.
Total War (in my mind) is so centered around tactics and strategy that the introduction of arcade elements might detract from the generally unique theme/feel of the game.
Total War is the first computer wargame to really capture the dynamics of tactical combat, and I think the developers should be careful not to "dilute" their success by reverting to the age-old arcade format.
That being said, I'm for as many options as possible. It would be kinda cool if you could at least watch from your Kensai taisho's 1st person perspective, or maybe order him to attack individual soldier's in an enemy unit (hey, you-- you killed my last ninja, now prepare to DIE!)
Or even better! Incorporate the face-off aspect of Pirates by way of a pre-battle challenge. You could challenge an opposing general to a 1 on 1 duel while your armies stand by at the ready. The loser's army would have its morale lowered as usual.
spiffy_scimitar
06-04-2002, 23:59
Eh.
First, think feasability. The sprites dont hold up well from incredibly close, and the rapid angle changes inherent in a first person perspective would do bad things to the animation quality. It would be like playing the original Doom but worse, since the TW sprites are made to be seen small and amongst thousands, not from close.
Next, although I have been hankering for a FPS melee based game where you wade into an opposing army, backed by your fellows, this isnt the focus of the TW series, as it would be impossible to command strategy while hacking it out. Unless you predetermine the strategy beforehand (a la Legion) and it simply plays out.. but the impact a lone soldier could have in a battle this size would be negligable anyhow.
An FPH&S (hack and slash) for melee would be great done like Morrowind, which has very nice hand to hand and archery combat. The problem is that detailed characters require so much rendering that no machine could handle scores of combatants, at least for now.
spiffy_scimitar
06-05-2002, 20:29
I've never played Morrowind, so I couldnt comment on the combat system. However, it would be great if someone could make a melee based game where swordplay and weapon skills could be accurately depicted. Thief has been the closest thing so far, where you had to slash, parry and block effectively, and you were fragile enough that more than 2 adversaries would almost always get the best of you.
An FPH@S a la TW would be very unsatisfying if all you did was hit the sword swing button and everything in range would crumple (like most knife or clubbing weapons in all FPS games).
theforce
06-05-2002, 20:44
Is my dream for like Totalwar 10 :P
A huge online multiplayer game. Around 1000 men at each side fighting from first person http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif It should be wicked :P
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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
It's hard to have realistic elements in swordfighting in games because they are not really exciting. It's basically who swings the sword the fastest. The only chance to save yourself is getting out of the way. You can't block a sword with your sword because your opponents momentum will imbed your own sword into your body, unless you swing at the same time, which needs psychic powers to see coming. Also, even katanas, which are generally considered the best swords ever, break after a few slashes.
spiffy_scimitar
06-07-2002, 19:26
Andrew, it's also a question of what swords you're using. A huge claymore would indeed be difficult to block, and a katana, being so light, is lightning fast amd hard to anticipate.
However, look at the art of fencing; battles can strech on for hours between individual opponents.
I think it would be very possible to make a good game sword fighting system. Even Jedi knight2 had some promising ideas. Things would just need to be adapted to provide a quick yet strategical approach instead of simple hack and slash.
Hirosito
06-07-2002, 22:57
no no individual combat only on assasination missions
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Yes, you can make a good fighting system but you can't do it in a realistic way and that is the point of my argument. Before guns became mainstream and made armor obsolete, light swords like rapiers and sabers were not used in large scale battles like in medieval.
Two-handed swords like the katana (my cousin who stuies iaido says they wield it two-handed) and claymore and probably even longswords are impossible to block with a sword. You can only either deflect the sword away from you or move out of the way.
There was an American archeologist or historian who visited Japanese battlefields after they reopened to foreigners. He noticed that many samurai died while having their own sword embedded in their helmet while still holding their sword. That's why you shouldn't block a sword using your own sword.
BlackWatch McKenna
06-08-2002, 04:14
I think it would be hard to program a FP Sword Battle.
As for he who swings hardest and fastest being the winner:
I use that theory against the Kendo Masters at my dojo. These guys are like 50, 60, 70, and super-sensei is like 88 or something - a breeze would blow him over.
They dont even bother swinging hard or fast. I take a few swipes at them - they parry, move aside, and tap me for 3 points or so. I mean - they move in freakin' slow motion ...
I love watching guys with equal talent spar in class. I can't really explain it - its surreal. Lots of parries - lots of manuevering - lots of just "looking at the other guys soul" - lots of shinai (swords) swinging around.
Know how you see samurai going at it in the movies and you say "it cant be like that in real life" ... well, when I see those same movies, I think, "I could totally see that happening."
// black
You must be using either light swords or non-real ones because you can't do that in real life with large swords like a katana. Remember that momentum is mass*velocity and velocity is acceleration*time. If you swing before they do and their reflexes aren't very fast and you are much bigger than they are, there is no way in hell they can block a real katana or longsword. Also, these swords break when you swing them strong enough.
The only possible way is to hit the sword at its side so that it is deflected or to move out of the way fast enough. My cousin's sensei descended from Takeda retainers so he knows Japanese history. A lot of the stuff in films are just popular myth. Most of the stuff they teach in many martial arts classes doesn't work in real battles with real weapons because of the different physics involved.
If you read 'the way of the daimyo' it tells you that because the katana is made up of so many levels that it will not break when many good european swords would.
It was very rare for one to break.
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"A warriors death in battle should be bloody"
That's not true. Even the strongest ones break after a few uses unless it is made up of diamond. Iron alloys simply cannot withstand that much. Sure, it is more powerful than European swords but the description in way of the daimyo is somewhat exagerrated. It's like saying that the Mongol army is as numerous as the sand in the seashore.
Also, not all samurai can afford to have a very powerful katana.
It also says that eveb the weakest ones had 200 folds of metal, it is hard to break 200 swords in one go.
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"A warriors death in battle should be bloody"
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