Pay your electricity bill....or die!

[InsaneApache]

What with immigrants clasping onto fishing nets for dear life and terminally ill people being used for entertainment, I thought that mankind had reached a low. Nope not a bit of it.


A gravely ill New Zealand mother of five died after her oxygen machine stopped when the power company cut off her electricity over a £62 outstanding bill.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1860248.ece

Speechless. :shame:

[Don Corleone]

Hmm, sounds like that contractor should be brought before the local magistrate for homicide by means of depraved indifference (or whatever that statute is called in New Zealand). It doesn't sound like the son should be parading around publicly either... why didn't he call the ambulance or some other authority when the power first was cut instead of waiting for his mother to pass out due to oxygen deprivation (never a good thing, unless you're a dumb kid playing dangerous games).

[Kralizec]

Wasn't there a case in the USA where a hospital disconnected a woman from a heart-lung machine (causing death) because she couldn't pay the bill?

That was a while after the Schiavo case.

[Grey_Fox]

Manslaughter at least.

[Goofball]

Wasn't there a case in the USA where a hospital disconnected a woman from a heart-lung machine (causing death) because she couldn't pay the bill?

That was a while after the Schiavo case.

Yep. There was a thread about it in here at the time. I believe it took place in Texas.

[Odin]

from the article:
The family of Folole Muliaga said that a contractor from Mercury Energy stood in front of the 44-year-old nursery teacher after he cut the power supply and, with the alarm of her oxygen machine sounding, said that he was only doing his job.

This is what got me the most on the article, there is a human factor to the company its not just some guy working at a power grid. Someone actually went to the house and shut it off with knowledge of the circumstances.

I dont know, i've delivered bad financial news to people before, but have always attempted to be humane and flexable as possible, this is a pretty ugly story man.

:thumbsdown:

[doc_bean]

Manslaughter at least.

So, by extension, are we all responsible for the children in Africa starving because we don't invest more in foregin aid ?

[Don Corleone]

So, by extension, are we all responsible for the children in Africa starving because we don't invest more in foregin aid ?

You are. I'm safe, cause I've sponsored a couple of the buggers. Nice knowing ya, chief... :ballchain::bobby2:

[Husar]

So, by extension, are we all responsible for the children in Africa starving because we don't invest more in foregin aid ?
I never really cut off their food supply and I'm not in the food business either.
Isn't it so that the food producers prefer to throw away tons of food to keep the prices stable? And yes, I do oppose that, but I didn't plant a bomb in a supermarket yet.:dizzy2:

[Banquo's Ghost]

The family of Folole Muliaga said that a contractor from Mercury Energy stood in front of the 44-year-old nursery teacher after he cut the power supply and, with the alarm of her oxygen machine sounding, said that he was only doing his job.

If that is true, then it is murder.

When a doctor deliberately unplugs a patient from life support without a court order, it is usually treated with the utmost severity. Likewise this case. Certainly the company should be liable too, but the "only following orders" defence has long been discredited.

If this is allowed, then euthanasia becomes very simple. Just "forget" to pay granny's bills and presto!

Appalling.

[Soulforged]

So, by extension, are we all responsible for the children in Africa starving because we don't invest more in foregin aid ?
The cases are pretty different. In the first one you're liable in the second you're not, simply because in the first one you can and you should avoid it, while in the second you're not legally obliged to do so.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I dont know about where you live but here In New York it against the law for the power company to turn of the juice to anyone on life support for non payment.

[doc_bean]

The cases are pretty different. In the first one you're liable in the second you're not, simply because in the first one you can and you should avoid it, while in the second you're not legally obliged to do so.

The power company was obviously not legally obliged to keep providing power, otherwise they wouldn't have turned it off...

[Soulforged]

The power company was obviously not legally obliged to keep providing power, otherwise they wouldn't have turned it off...
Exactly what Gawain said. They're obliged not by a contract or law, but they can't murder another human being... The logic is very simple, by principle you should not harm another human being. The obligation derives from the principle.

EDIT: In any case are you implying that they were legally allowed to cut their service knowing of the person's condition?

[doc_bean]

Exactly what Gawain said. They're obliged not by a contract or law, but they can't murder another human being... The logic is very simple, by principle you should not harm another human being. The obligation derives from the principle.

We could all save lives if we donated all our money to charity, or even just he budget we use for our 'entertainment', does that make us all murderers ? Where do you draw the line ?

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what the compnay has done, but I find the outrage somewhat over the top (except for that directed at the guy pulling the plug, that's just harsh.)

[InsaneApache]

We could all save lives if we donated all our money to charity, or even just he budget we use for our 'entertainment', does that make us all murderers ? Where do you draw the line ?

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what the compnay has done, but I find the outrage somewhat over the top (except for that directed at the guy pulling the plug, that's just harsh.)

Good grief. :shame:

[Fragony]

this is :dizzy2:

come to think of it, don't these things have charged batteries in case of a power faillure? I think this is a hoax.

[doc_bean]

Good grief. :shame:

Hey, I'm on a libertarian trip !

For the record, I would say that a limited amount of free electricty, payed for with taxes, for all would be the ideal solution. Energy used above this amount can be taxed higher so you get a double benefit for society :2thumbsup:

Damn, now i'm a socialist...

[Ja'chyra]

I'm not sure I believe this either, or at least I don't think it's the whole story.


Exactly what Gawain said. They're obliged not by a contract or law, but they can't murder another human being... The logic is very simple, by principle you should not harm another human being. The obligation derives from the principle

They didn't harm, they allowed to be harmed which is a completely different thing.

[HoreTore]

They didn't harm, they allowed to be harmed which is a completely different thing.

Yes, about as different as allowing a gun to shoot just by pressing the trigger...

[Ja'chyra]

Yes, about as different as allowing a gun to shoot just by pressing the trigger...

No. About as different as shooting someone or allowing someone else to shoot them or not giving help after they'd been shot, see the difference?

[HoreTore]

No. About as different as shooting someone or allowing someone else to shoot them or not giving help after they'd been shot, see the difference?

You're saying that this is like shooting someone, and then not helping the shot person? Well, so then you agree that the power company should burn for this? It's the shot that is against the law, not just the "letting them bleed"-part. They cut the power(pulled the trigger), so they should be arrested for murder, right?

Also, I don't know how this is other places, but at least here, not helping a person in need is considered a very serious crime.

[Fragony]

Well pulling the plug killed her. And that is what he did he pulled the plug.

[Zaknafien]

Actually, the fact that she cant breathe naturally killed her. All he did was turn off the electricity they were stealing at that point from the company, which resulted in a machine losing its power. naturally she would have died ages ago im sure.

just playing devil's advocate here.

[Ja'chyra]

You're saying that this is like shooting someone, and then not helping the shot person? Well, so then you agree that the power company should burn for this? It's the shot that is against the law, not just the "letting them bleed"-part. They cut the power(pulled the trigger), so they should be arrested for murder, right?

Also, I don't know how this is other places, but at least here, not helping a person in need is considered a very serious crime.

No I'm saying that shooting someone is the same as killing them and causing harm, whereas not helping someone who has been shot is equivalent of switching her power off as you don't directly harm them but your actions could lead to harm.

[Cronos Impera]

This is the consequence of capitalism...resources turning on those who control them. This is wht happens when you have a Orwelian Capitalistic System...you become a worthless drone. Prosperity turns on us and our life.
This is obscene, and happens many times in Romania too (cancer patients going in the streets on hunger strike because a goddamned liberal Health Minister doesn't see the point of having more funds for free Anti-cancer drugs and wastes money on decorating his office and buying a new car).
When key sectors of the economy end in private hands all things go to hell.If that company was state-owned the worker would have thaught twice about turning off the power-source To the pit with capitalism for this obscene crime. Capitalism once again shows its dark side.
Also, Fraggony if that breather apparatus was an old model like they still use in some places it doesn't come with a backup energy system.

[InsaneApache]

I was wondering when the 'capitalists' were going to get the blame. Do they still wear top hats? :inquisitive:

More like a 'jobsworth' attitude to me.

[Fragony]

This is the consequence of capitalism...resources turning on those who control them.

My guess would be that it was just an extremily stupid employee.

[HoreTore]

Actually, the fact that she cant breathe naturally killed her. All he did was turn off the electricity they were stealing at that point from the company, which resulted in a machine losing its power. naturally she would have died ages ago im sure.

just playing devil's advocate here.

Well, if I cut out both your kidneys and then close the wound, you would die naturally from blood poisoning.

[Zaknafien]

Right, but no one caused her to not be able to breathe. for all we know she caused it herself by smoking.

[InsaneApache]

:fishing:

[Soulforged]

No. About as different as shooting someone or allowing someone else to shoot them or not giving help after they'd been shot, see the difference?
Incorrect. Electricity has no will of its own...

EDIT: And even if that were the case, the company is guilty by ommision. They're guilty of murder if they knew of the person's condition and they're guilty of manslaughter if they didn't but didn't take the necessary precautions before cutting the electricity, like sending a note to her assistant...

[Incongruous]

Well it is true, there has been alot of coverage over here. Basically all is as the family has said. The Mercury energy guy cut the power with knowledge of the teachers condition. But that he stood iver here like some evil bad guy? C'mon, I cannot believe that.
Also, that the hospital was contacted so late? Odd.
To add insult to injury, later when the funeral was held at the home, the company still did not re-connect the power (even when victim support informed them of the funeral) leaving the family to grieve in the dark. What's worse is that it is a sub company owned by the govt.:no:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

They didn't harm, they allowed to be harmed which is a completely different thing.
Certainly this is a case of at least deprived indifference. In this state they would be brought up on manslaughter charges.


Exactly what Gawain said. They're obliged not by a contract or law, but they can't murder another human being.
It is against the law here. They cant do it and if they do even if no one dies their in deep trouble. You register that you have life support in your home with the state and the local power authority. No way they can turn you off without serious consequences.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Why didn't the family just pay her bill for her? I'm sure they could have found the money somehow.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Maybe they didnt like her.

[Incongruous]

Why didn't the family just pay her bill for her? I'm sure they could have found the money somehow.

Ok they did not have the money, the motehr was ill (could not work) and the father was taking time off work but was slowly paying it back.

[Soulforged]

EDIT: Never mind, just a legal mistake, you're right Gawain, the obligation comes from the law.

[Duke of Gloucester]

So, by extension, are we all responsible for the children in Africa starving because we don't invest more in foregin aid ?

A very old question (see Gen 4:9).