View Full Version : Observation - Forget the HORDE, worry about the POPE !
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/MTW2%20General/The-Great-Padre.jpg
You either gifted him a lot of got one bitch of a pope somewhere in the line :laugh4:
Anyways, the pope has very good units once he comes out of his corner.
LOL !!! Yeah well I gifted him normal 5-10K until I got fed up with gifting. Then I just quit, could'nt care less.
I just got some beers and coasted through my chilled out Scottish Kingdom, creaming some enemies on the mainland once in a while. I just had a look at this since the armies I met raiding on the mainland were getting pathetic. So I did a toggle_fow and this is what I saw.
Mind you those are only the Middle Eastern armies, there were stacks like that in Europe -> Eastern Europe as well.
Well if your lazy subordinates won't do it you have to take matters into your onw hands :whip:
Well if your lazy subordinates won't do it you have to take matters into your onw hands :whip:
Fellow Catholics, crusade! Oh, you won't do it. Let me just do it myself, then.
Hmm, actually that's true. I did'nt go on a single Crusade. I mean I'm sitting here nice and cosy on my Island and he expect me to go down ... where ? No way padre !
Could it be that CA meant this as a practical joke.
Imagine all those hyper aggressive factions and the Pope gets to pwn them all ! Wonder if there's any "Toke" meaning behind this one.
Its weird about the Papacy. One or two times out of ten campaigns they'll go crazy taking on enemies but most of the time they never go beyond their own Rome territory. Personally, I like it when the Papacy goes on a empire building spree. It adds a whole new dynamics to the game.
darth_napo
05-31-2007, 04:20
wait, how did the mongols and timurids invade before 1200? how did you discover america before 1200?
Well spotted ! I was playing on 0.5turns/year.
You can see instructions on how to here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74279
BTW I was looking through my screenshots and I have to correct myself, I actually knew all along the Pope was doing this !
Mailman653
05-31-2007, 04:57
I wish my campaigns looked like that ha ha ha.
HAHAHA ! LOL I thought people would find MY empire funny. Well anyway that was a chilled out game. I'm going to post some more from that campaign once I can.
Heh a real challenge would be subduing the pope now!
I'd say that was a mission impossible, but some could probably do it?
Bulawayo
05-31-2007, 09:27
I really do hate when the Pope expands like this, although I still haven't seen something so extreme. I believe those Papal and Swiss Guards do help him by being very good in autocalc, so I was planning to make a hidden resource Rome in order to recruit them, but I don't know how to do it. Somebody out there maybe does?
Awesome. I have to try this myself. The Roman Empire is reborn!
I think his popiness goes crazy when he's very impure, and then he'll have borders to excommunicated or outlandish factions and his successors will join the fray because they have so much military power :laugh4:
I think part of the problem is that CA just codes the Papal States like any other faction. In 1.1 they attacked any rebel province they could get to by sea. In 1.2 it's more hit and miss. Sometimes the Pope is a good boy and sits in Rome like he's supposed to. Other times he goes nuts. In my current Portugal game, the Pope expanded to Florence, Ajjacio, and Cagliari within 10-20 turns. He's also actively attacking the Moors and will probably grab Tunis very soon. That's not a huge empire, but it's crippled Milan and Sicily, which is a shame.
They need to look back at the Senate coding in RTW and try to get back there. I dozens of campaign games, I never saw the Senate expand, not once. I understand that historically, the Pope would have loved to expand Papal States territory and become a powerful ruler in his own right, but in M2TW it just hurts gameplay way too much to have an expansionist Pope.
I think part of the problem is that CA just codes the Papal States like any other faction
Well they haven't, the Papal states have their own ai coding. With the Senate in RTW there were no rebel provinces for it to expand into so there wasn't a problem. If you gifted them a province near enemies they would expand like any other faction. In M2TW the Papacy only really expands if a faction reaby gets ex-communicated or if it takes Florence. And even if it takes Florence it won't always expand further.
Yes, but why is that? Surely it shouldn't be that difficult to simply code something that says the Papal States never attacks anyone, with the exception being that it vigorously tries to re-take Rome if it loses it.
Yes, but why is that? Surely it shouldn't be that difficult to simply code something that says the Papal States never attacks anyone, with the exception being that it vigorously tries to re-take Rome if it loses it.
Probably, but i prefer it this way. Might not be that accurate, but the possibilty of the Papal armies taking over excommunicated lands and then forging a holy empire is pretty fun.
I would agree if Catholic factions were given an AI that would actively attack the Papal States if they were at war with them. As it is, factions almost always just sit back and let themselves get pummeled because of their preference to avoid conflict with the Pope. Given a choice between re-writing the AI for all the Catholic factions and re-writing the AI for the Pope, I think it's best to stick with the minimalist approach.
Agreed. Try playing as the pope. It's very easy. Factions will attack and be excommunicated. Then they will sue for peace or be a crusade target. Once the pope has 4-5 italian provinces noone can stop him. Add to that the excellent militia units and papal guard and you have a problem.
I must admit that most of my experiences are with 1.1, so maybe he is laid back enough in 1.2?
If the pope got big once every 50 games that might be ok, but not once every 2-3.
darth_napo
05-31-2007, 14:22
nevermind, forget what I said....:wall:
That is a 1.10 game, long over.
What I find silly about this is that the Mongols, the Timurids, the Turks and others should be doing the same. Or any other faction for that matter. The fact that it's almost always the Pope obviously means something needs to be fixed, preferably with regards to other factions. It might be interesting for others to see the Pope in this glory but I'd like to see other factions as capable. It's simple, it's only because of the high end autocalc units the Pope gets which make this a strong faction. Same is for Milan. Xbows beating Chivalric Knights in auto calc.
BTW, IMHO to WTFPWNBBQ the Papacy in the game above is a PIECE OF CAKE.
NO challenge, just a long and boring tedium. Although there will be some fun battles, you are assured victory. It will be a lot of fun to fight those battles but it won't be a challenge.
I can't speak for everyone, but that's how it is for me. No brag either, just stating how it is for me.
Well I could go through all that trouble of proving it but I'm sure it's not necessary. It's much easier to beat the Papacy than to beat the Timurids or Mongols (as long as they have their initial stacks reasonably intact).
Are savegames 1.10 -> 1.20 compatible ?
I'm not gonna do it but I am tempted. If people are interested I could "fix" the savegame, make Scotland at war with all, only one territory and off you go. Might be fun as a community thing. Actually it would be fun to land one stack, and one replenishment stack in the middle of all those. That should make for some great cinematic editor worthy battles.
I did'nt find many other interesting screens from that campaign, mainly battle results and such, but here's a couple.
York is profitable with a good governor. EDIT: hit CTRL+F5 to recache the screens just changed one.
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/MTW2%20General/Scotland3.jpg
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/MTW2%20General/Scotland1.jpg
Well it'd only prove the point that the strategic AI still isn't worth a shilling :laugh4:
Yeah, big waste of time IMO.
gardibolt
05-31-2007, 19:52
What set off the Pope in my England game M/M was when Sicily attacked (and took Rome). He then went on a rampage, mostly wiping Sicily out, and then taking part of North Africa as well. When my crusaders to the Holy Land were destroyed in a storm, he sent a couple stacks and took Jerusalem himself, which meant I was in a quandary---how to fulfill my victory condition with him sitting in Jerusalem? Luckily, the Timurids took care of that issue for me just before the clock ran out, so I could beat on them with impunity.
You could code the Papal States to be inactive, I guess. Just copy the lines from the slaves (rebels) entry and set allow forced invasions to false.
Agent Smith
06-01-2007, 01:37
The funny thing is that the Pope probably has the toughest victory conditions in the entire game. He needs to control 100 regions and hold Rome. The short campaign is easier for him, though. He only has to control...80 regions...
I guess the Slaves technically have it the toughest. They need to control 100 regions...and Tenochtitlan! Their short campaign is 80 regions and...Rome?
Needless to say they both have it tough :laugh4:
WhiskeyGhost
06-01-2007, 04:03
I've been reading this topic, and was wondering.......what exactly are the popes traits?
I get the feeling that if the Pope is one of those Warmongering impure types that may be why the Papal States are so aggressive at times......has anyone tested this?:book:
Furious Mental
06-01-2007, 06:45
If you can make the Pope inactive like the rebels, does that mean you can make the rebels active like normal factions? If so, how?
I've been reading this topic, and was wondering.......what exactly are the popes traits?
I get the feeling that if the Pope is one of those Warmongering impure types that may be why the Papal States are so aggressive at times......has anyone tested this?:book:
Yeah that's my impression, too. It could be just wishful thinking though.
[QUOTE=Magraev]Agreed. Try playing as the pope. It's very easy. QUOTE]
ER i'm sorry if this is a tupid question but how do you play as the pope i've tried descr strat but it says i've been destroyed before i start.
I simply cut "papacy" from the "non-playable" section and paste it to "playable".
If that doesn't work then maybe you're playing a modded game?
yeah sorrry that was 1.0 i've tried again in 1.2 ad it works now to conquer christendom:charge:
Is there a way to make it so the Pope is ALWAYS agressive and expansive? I like to face a large power in the late game that can present a sort of challenge and fighting a superpower Pope could be fun!
Sir Robin the Brave
06-10-2007, 12:25
I've noticed this in my 1.2 portugese campaign
The pope sent a whole stack of units to go attack the moors, and stomped around italy himself!
In my danish campaign the pope took over most of Italy and some of Germany
I think the pope is more agressive in the 1.2 patch, I certainly can't remember this happening in previous patch games, though I wasnt around Italy snooping then...
ReiseReise
08-20-2007, 19:19
Interesting...
Poland conquered Russia but lost Krakow to the Danes!?!.... who only have Oslo!!?!?!?!!??? I hope they (Danes) had a nice little Baltic empire before the Pope cleaned house, because that looks rather silly.
Goaswerfraiejen
08-21-2007, 03:42
You guys are lucky. I WISH my Popes would get all expansionist on everyone's butts.
Goaswerfraiejen
08-21-2007, 03:48
Allow me to rephrase. I wish ANY FACTION AT ALL would be that aggressive in my games. Especially considering that I play them to the bitter end...
Stupid_Boy
08-28-2007, 08:58
I did'nt find many other interesting screens from that campaign, mainly battle results and such, but here's a couple.
York is profitable with a good governor. EDIT: hit CTRL+F5 to recache the screens just changed one.
OH MY GOD!!!!How do u make such profit???the most income i got from a city which i play as egypt is around 4000++ never pass 5000......i thought antioch is the richest province in MT2....now im totally wrong!!!!! how to u increase the income in a city besides those market & etc building??? and is there a easy way to increase the command of a general ?? i mean a quick way to increase a general from 0 to 6 or 7?? im so numb!!!!!
Stupid_Boy
08-28-2007, 09:01
I did'nt find many other interesting screens from that campaign, mainly battle results and such, but here's a couple.
York is profitable with a good governor. EDIT: hit CTRL+F5 to recache the screens just changed one.
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/MTW2%20General/Scotland3.jpg
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/MTW2%20General/Scotland1.jpg
OH MY GOD!!!!How do u make such profit???the most income i got from a city which i play as egypt is around 4000++ never pass 5000......i thought antioch is the richest province in MT2....now im totally wrong!!!!! how to u increase the income in a city besides those market & etc building??? and is there a easy way to increase the command of a general ?? i mean a quick way to increase a general from 0 to 6 or 7?? im so numb!!!!!
IM SO IMPRESSED!!!!!
Slightly off topic but as the HRE my victory conditions are to own Rome and 45 provinces. I'd prefer to do this without going to war with the Pope but don't get the option to buy Rome from him - do I have to go to war?
_Tristan_
08-28-2007, 09:31
Mostly yes but you might also try to finance another faction to enter war with the Pope and hope they can take Rome and buy it from them ot conquer it from them
That's a great idea, thanks!
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