another slap in the face

[Kraellin]

ok. CA, turn your heads and dont look at this one. you guys have been great. however, your partners have screwed up again.

it absolutely amazes me how badly this community has been snubbed by DT. the latest example being the demo release. here we've got folks running around trying to get copies from possibly somewhat illicit means because ostensibly DT was too greedy to simply release it thru activision or .com to the community as a whole, as is normally done. instead they give a very local magazine exclusive rights, no doubt at a nice profit to DT, to release this in a very local market, once again snubbing the community as a whole for the sake of the bottom line.

i find this disappointing at best. i find it remarkable that a community that has supported this line of games thru sales, ideas, beta testing, and just plain interest, is treated so poorly by the source company.

CA has, even through ill-aimed flames, continued to attempt to help this community out. DT, on the other hand, has continued to snub this group through no communication and now once agains pulls this PR blunder of almost completely ignoring those who've been their staunchest supporters, instead courting magazines, conventions, and other marketing gimmicks.

and likewise, another promise went to the winds. we heard a while back that mr de plater was going to utilize the 1.02 beta testers to test the m:tw demo. this also seems to have fallen into the cracks, now that we see an actual demo released. just another bad pr move, similar to the promised online campaign that never happened.

a number of you know me. i dont generally rabble-rouse, flame or chronically whine. i help out in various forums where i can and no doubt i'll still buy the game when it comes out. i'm not calling for a boycott or anything as silly as that. in fact, the only thing i'm asking here is that DT improve it's pr a bit somehow. how, is up to them. this is not directed to CA, Activision or anyone but the copywrite holders, Dreamtime. come on guys, get it together.

you're producing a pretty good game, but why piss off your market in the process? the first rule of business is deliver what you promise. the corollary, of course, is dont promise what you cant deliver. some were delivered a 'free' demo (free, if you bought the magazine, which isnt really free now, is it). i've yet to receive my 'free' copy.

the worst thing is, this post will no doubt simply be ignored...just another pissing in the wind post...amazing.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[dagdriver]

Just about what I was thinking (although not in so many words)....

[Stephen Hummell]

nice said kraellin.

[This message has been edited by Stephen Hummell (edited 06-19-2002).]

[ZenWarrior]

Kraellin, i totally agree with you mate. The thing is it is a good idea to release the demo via a mag to enable people without decent internet connections to try it out. But to actually snub the shogun community in general and the majority of people who bought the previous game(s) from all around the WORLD is a joke.

[Dom]

Well, there are some developers or producers that do pay attention to their customers (like Oleg in IL2, he is organising a real time chat sessions with fans!!!) and some who don't.

To tell the truth, I do not see a reason why anyone should pay attention to the community the size of Shogun, cuz it mostly consists of junkies who will by next product anyway.

Magasines, PC Gamer specifically, has provided the game with wide publicity, Strategy gamer has featured MTW on its cover a while ago with a lot of insight and other mags follow their suit.

Now as to the question of someone having the "right" to expect all those nice things because they like the game or play it a lot.... nah, you are owed nothing, and that was debated extensively on many gaming forums.

And all the "marketing gimmicks" will only benefit the community and if the price at which they come is delayed Demo then so be it, because then the mags will dedicate more pages to it and more new players will come, much more than the "community" promotion ever could.

Basically, the formula is that the only thing you deserve is what comes with the box and on the condition that it comes with. If you decide to do anything extra, you do it for yourself and your own pleasure, however altruistic it can be.

Shogun, however brilliant game it was has underperformed in sales, so now they must do their best to market it any way they can.

Asking for the game makers to pay homage to the fans is naive, it only works the other way.

Regards, Ryurik

[CeltiberoSkullXIII]

WELL SAYED KRAELLIN! kick their ass!

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"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!" http://gifanimados.ya.com/terror/calaveras_banderas/flag_wht_blkbns_clr.gif

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Hmmm...

Well magazines reach a wider audiience than specific internet sites, they also bypass the problems associated with downloading large files over crappy connections (for example only 4% of the UK has broadband).

Next its worth remembering that it often really (and quite seriously) just comes down to being in the right place at the right time - expect to see numerous other magazines with the demo as their respective publication dates come out - and always bear in mind that amgazine deadlines for content are a long way before print - so the staggering of publication dates (For marketing reasons) means that it can appear that one mag gets it before another - though this isnt always the case in reality.

Now, if you want to be really cynical, who is most likely to buy the game? Fans on these types of specialist sites? Of course they are so who are the prime targets for the PR guys? The assured market or the mass markets who didn't play SHogun but they want to play Medieval?

Its not a deliberate slur, rather sensible marketing, PC gamer fell lucky this time around and it might help sell some mags - good for them I guess... in the meantime what will the internet community get?

Hmm - well perhaps a more up-too date demo with more content or better graphics? Who knows.

( I wouldn't call PC Gamer [UK} a local magazine btw - its the UKs largest selling gaming magazine [and it sells into Europe too] - essentially though I guess you are feeling how most of the UK, Europe and Rest of the WOrld, feel when most US companies release their final games to the US market weeks or even months before worldwide... and of course they then say "You can always order it from the US".

It's an imperfect world. /em shrugs.

[MagyarKhans Cham]

people should know that if people refer to mags or mag that they intent to talk about a magazine and not our Great Khan http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


Krealin is right. There is no problem in releasing teh game by a magazine but be sure its available on many spots oin the world and not a local shop in the ehart of england.

[RageMonsta]

I dont see the problem..just hoped down to the local Tesco and there it was...waiting...saying ..AT LAST YOU HAVE SOMETHING BEFORE AMERICA AND EUROPE.....waited a day to play it..laughed about our poor relations over seas....had one go and then threw it in the bin....just because i know you crave it so bad.....

During my glee I realised that MI/WE came out a few days (week?box mess up) b4 in USA and no doubt MTW will also....so the glee will soon pass over to you....gits

[clink]

Quote Originally posted by Dom:
Well, there are some developers or producers that do pay attention to their customers (like Oleg in IL2, he is organising a real time chat sessions with fans!!!) and some who don't.
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You so right on that. I have been playing IL2 alot,in fact its all Iv been playing lately. Oleg even comes out to Hyper Lobey and dog fights on line with the community. He has listened to people who have posted accurate data on air craft,research it and incorperated it in the FM. In fact there was an online discussion with Oleg just today where members of the comminity could ask him questions and rummars about IL2.

Nothin like a kick in the nuts my dear old dad used to say.


Regards, Ryurik [/QUOTE]



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TeuTonic

Stransky-Grab your MP-40 and I'll take you where the Iron crosses grow row on row.
Steiner...

[Obake]

There have been few enough issues that I've chimed in on over the last few months (actually none now that I think of it....damn block on the firewall at work), but in this instance I feel the need to step up and stand with Krae!

I don't harbor any envy to the Brits and other Europeans because the got the demo first. What irks me about the situation is that it wasn't distributed to all markets simultaneously. I voiced the same opinion when Mongols was released. It was a poor decision to release the add-on in Europe a MONTH after it was released here in North America, and then it was delayed a week to boot!

I am well aware that release schedules are not determined by Creative Assembly, they just build the game! The driving force are the producers and as Kraellin says, that's Dreamtime Interactive.

I won't even pretend to know the details of whatever back room business deal DI came up with to grant PC Gamer UK an exclusive first distribution, but it was pretty sad to see it happen nonetheless!

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Obake

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

[johnmcd]

If there wasn't the net you wouldn't even know the demo was out anywhere. You'll get it soon, its not something to get worked up about. A little patience.

[Sjakihata]

"If there wasn't the net you wouldn't even know the demo was out anywhere."

- LoL

[Orda Khan]

Lol, Monsta
..........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[johnmcd]

Quote Originally posted by Sjakihata Akechi:
"If there wasn't the net you wouldn't even know the demo was out anywhere."

- LoL[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't. I don't see the problem. The net allows things to be released simultaneously, it doens't mandate it, they don't even need to realse a demo, be grateful for what you get, not bitter for what you don't - the game is still coming even the demo's delivery isn't exactly to your liking.