Stupid siege AI!

[ryanwigginton]

Ok, I've just about had it with MIITW. Two things (and I noticed there not on the first page of the 1.3 wishlist page)...

1. I have 20 odd retinue longbowmen (exhausted and shaken) charge 3 mongolian archers, they kill 2 in the initial charge, there's one left but, they ALL brake and run away. I spend ages coaxing large tired mobs of men into attacking obviously inferior forces but because there a little tired they run all the way back to the centre of the citadel. So then... I have to bring them all the way back to try again and it goes on... (sigh, how tedious):thumbsdown:

2. I spent 2 hours in a battle this afternoon. Mainly because I get attacked by a large force that, once it's had it's arse kicked decides to sit outside the walls and do nothing, except maybe hold a set of ladders, or stand next to a battering ram. But my own guys are too tired and shaken to clear them off. I can't press esc because that means I lose. He attacked me. If he's not gonna finish me, surely I should win.:yes:

For me the siege AI/battle AI also, is the biggest issue with this game. :wall: I was considering throwing it out the window except I notice there's possibilty of a 1.3. But COME ON, this is more than six months after release and there's still SERIOUS issues.

And on a seperate point, how frustrating are horse archers?! :furious3: Could they ALL really outrun other cavalry while firing aimed shots at the same time? WOW!

There's my gripe. And I was impressed with 1.2 until today. By the way, can anyone recommend a good mod that would fix these issues I've mentioned? -I'll give it a try.

[crpcarrot]

my advice is throw the game away. i doubt anything other than the passive AI will will be changed in 1.3 from the list of gripes u have.

of your gripes the only valid one is the passive AI bug but in my exp it happens so rarely that its not really a reason to get so fustrated.

the affect of tiredness is way too little if u have units that are tired and shaken the last thing u do i charge them at anything even inferior troops. firt you give them some support so they improve thier morale. tiredness affect not only morale but fighitng affectiveness as well.

horsearchers are a apin but thats what they are ment to be develop a strategy to beat them if u dont have the correct units to beat them dont get into a battle with them. you cant blame a unit for doing what its supposed to be doing.

[ryanwigginton]

It is annoying when you lose the one region (Gaza) you have in the east because of a bug, and now have to send another army by boat there from Spain/France. And I completely disagree 20 exhausted shaken men should never run from one man. It's comical if anything, but not realistic, sorry. And I hate using the auto-outcome because often when I know I could win easily, the game decides I should lose.

Another thing... this is the 4th episode in this series of games. How can they NOT get such crucial things right when they've been doing it for so long?? :inquisitive:

[Agent Smith]

My advice is to always leave the battle timer on. If you don't like having it on, it can be turned on and off at the game menu when you hit esc at the campaign map. You can even do this when you are at the screen describing the battle with the two generals. That way, if he attacks you and just sits there, turn up the speed to 6x and let him lose. There is no reason for you to have to sally out when he is assaulting.

That's the only advice I can give.

[ryanwigginton]

My advice is to always leave the battle timer on. If you don't like having it on, it can be turned on and off at the game menu when you hit esc at the campaign map. You can even do this when you are at the screen describing the battle with the two generals. That way, if he attacks you and just sits there, turn up the speed to 6x and let him lose. There is no reason for you to have to sally out when he is assaulting.

That's the only advice I can give.

I wasn't aware I could do that. I'll give it a go.

"20 exhausted shaken men should never run from one man" -unless of course it's Dr. Banner.

[TinCow]

Just for amusement, not commentary on gameplay quality:

I had your situation in reverse last week. I had 20 wavering, exhausted Sudanese tribesmen near the town square of Timbuktu, while the rest of my army was off dealing with other problems. A single routing Moorish Sudanese tribesmen managed to avoid capture and reached the town square, where he rallied. He single handedly charged the 20 man unit I had just outside the square. He killed one man in the charge and the rest broke and fled the battle. I was highly amused. Perhaps he was in a berserk frenzy, like your Mongolian.

[crpcarrot]

i actually tasted the other side of the battle timer being on a couple of nights ago i was attacking a citadel which was lightly garrisioned but still i didnt have any cannons so it was mickey mouse game of gettting my ladders and rams wihtout losing my too many of my vetrans. anyhow to make a long story short i ran out of time when i was at the square with a bout 1min 20 seconds gone and about 5 enemy men left lol next turn i just blew the walls away.

i know the morale issue is unrealistic but changing it will affect the game in different ways and make it much less of a challenge than it already is(or isnt). the way the game machanics in MTW worked once a unit routs once it takes very little for it to drop back to routing again. add the fact that mongols units are like 3 siver chevrons plus generals dread makes it a bit of an extreme example. its worse when a whole battle line just turns and runs when a mongol general charges into them.

you shouldnt be fighting with routing troops so much. i dont know if theres any faq on morale modifyers here but as a guide

neagtive morale caused by
units under missle fire
losing a lot of men fast
flanks unprotected
being attacked in flanks rear
being outnumbered
high dread enemy general in close proximity

thats all i can think of right now i hope others will add to tis and correct any mistakes most of this is assuming they caried things forward from MTW

also in addition in MTW exhausted units got a -5 to attack and defence penalty while slowing their movements down to a crawl. in M2 they still seem to be able to run as fast and i dont know what the hit is to attack and defence and i dont know if there is a morale penalty as well.
but as a general rule i wont fight with tired units lettng them stand a round for abit gets them rested enough to fight again.

[CMcMahon]

I got my ass kicked yesterday (which doesn't happen often, I assure you) when a quarter stack (3 Jannissary heavies, 2 turkomans, 1 ballista) I had sieging Gaza got beaten by a half stack (1 general, 2 militia archers, 2 catapults which didn't get used, and 3 ballistas) simply because I killed their ballistas in such a way as to trap half of my Jannissaries between a building wall and the ballista. I charge all my troops in, expected to beat the crap out of their general, and end up getting destroyed because half my guys couldn't figure out how to back up, take two steps to the right, and then charge in. Poor pathfinding, I suppose.

[hoof]

One hint: Exhausted men can recover to "Fresh". It takes a while, but they'll get there. I found this out once because I attacked someone, then found all my guys at the bottom of a huge hill. I climbed the hill, found my men exhausted, and waited. Sure enough, at 3x speed, they recovered in about 10 minutes of real-world time. Made the battle much easier.

Thus, I suggest next time you run into this problem, put your men somewhere safe, and wait until they hit "fresh" status. This will maximize your chance to overcome the enemy who is just sitting there. Of course, they'll be fresh as well, so this might not help in all circumstances.

[phonicsmonkey]

yes, I've used this too - climb a hill, stand 100m from the enemy waiting for the men to refresh themselves.

"erm, sorry to bother you old bean but would you mind awfully asking your chaps just to hold off for ten minutes or so which we catch our breath? thanks, you are kind"