Faction??

[Saeon]

Hiya i'm about to start a new game here but i dunno which faction i sould play, i'm not new so i'm looking for a challenge although a do-able one :P if you follow me. I was thinking i'd like to play Western Europe and was wondering what peoples experiances were playing them and if they could share them?

Thanks

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It'd be great if fans got some descriptions organized about the best reasons to play as some factions and the drawbacks of playing as them too - for this kind of thing. If it was done well, we could put it up in the FAQ as a "I'm new - which faction should I play?" type entry.

You guys all play it more than the team gets to anyway after all! :laugh4:

[Saeon]

lol that would be very helpful though i'm not that new :P. I'm just interested in a bit of a challenge to keep me sane during my exams

[Moros]

None of the western factions are really a challenge. Tough Lustonnan migth become difficult if the carthies get strong and aggresive while your empire isn't build up yet. However during my Luso. campaign they didn't attack me. When I was strong enough I kicked them out. Didn't play much further tough. However I think most westerbfactions are fairly easy. The real difficult ones are in the east.

[Saeon]

I see well what would you say we're the most challenging factions then :P i am think that Hellion looks pretty tough??? I prefer to start out with smaller factions personally 1 to 3 towns is enough to start with for me :P

[Spendios]

Try Baktria you get 3 provinces to start, rich provinces and a very cool units roster.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Hayasdan and Pontos are great too if you want a challenge. They are among the toughest in the game outside of the nomads.

[Saeon]

Are the normads hard to play i dunno why i never had them down as that tough???

[Ignopotens]

I like the Getai myself, only 1 territory to start, long buildup, but before long you can whip the Greeks' collective asses

[Saeon]

lmao sounds fun :P what sort of troops do they use, i played Romanii for a long time and the organised legions have begun to bore me a bit :P i'd reli luv to play something with a bit of an off-beat tactic needed, Skimishers, Archers or even Phalanxes i supppose spring to mind.

I dunno much about these eastern factions at all myself :P historically i'm a westerner :P

[Pharnakes]

Surely the Casey are hardly what you would call easy? Although I suppose once you've taken half a doven settlements there is little that can oppose you. But then I find that is the same with any faction.

[Redmeth]

The nomads are tough to start but offer some unique feelings in fights and having to conquer all that land. And to integrate the locals in your armies.
Check this for my posts of a Sauromatae campaign:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=129
And check out the unofficial mod sections for some money scripts and the mercenary recruitment script by mlp071 and maybe the victory conditions by JMRC (if you play with BI).
These things really help against the stack-spawning of AS and/or Baktria and/or Ptolemies, the game is still tough don't worry (especially on VH).
The Getai are very cool and I'm fond of them (biased :beam:) but I'm waiting on 1.0 to play an epic campaign with them.
I played a campaign with the Casse, very cool units especially after the first reform but it was quick I was victorious in 212.

[Saeon]

lol i don't have any mods and i don't use BI either just typical upgrade to the vanilla :P i always take a challenge stratigy is something i'm not that bad at :P. What is playing Pontos like???

[Ignopotens]

what sort of troops do they use?

With the Getai, I use a mixture of slingers, skirmishers, drapanai (falx-wielders), with some Skythian cavalry, and unit or 2 of Getai light phalanxes

what I like best about them is that their non-phalanx units can almost universally outfight any comparative unit in a melee, hell the falx-wielders can take out just about any cavalry in a melee, and almost all their units are good at hiding in woods

Just don't expect to get any heavy cavalry or heavily armored infantry

[Pharnakes]

Thorakitai stratikoi? Taxeis triabloii? and you can of course get the Galatikoi Kuarthoroi in Tylis with a type 4. Tarabostes also are at least a cut above medium cavalry, I would say.

[EasternScourge]

Well (in an attempt to do what Teleklos said),here are (in my view) the pros and cons of playing as the Sabeans

Pro-Sitting in the middle of supposedly nowhere allows some breathing space and slow development,similar to how the Casse are stuck on the British Isles.The faction has potential to get strong,especially if you can get to Africa and pick up the Ethiopian troops.Also,the unit roster,while small, is pretty different from other factions (who else has a roster made up of lots of skirmisher units?).Overall it is a fun and different faction,if you can survive the beginning.

Cons-It takes awhile for the economy to get going,and your going to go into debt.Next,the factional unit roster is real small compared to other factions, though it is slightly balanced by the African unts you can recruit.
Enemy wise,its tough.The Red Sea has some tough rebel fleets that really put a damp on invasion plans into Africa.Also,you got the Grey,Silver,whatever you want to call Death as your next door neighbor.Add the Ptolemai (SP?),and your expansion plans involving some serious fighting.But don't fret.Do it right,it isn't to hard.

[Saeon]

Cool i understand what you say i am at the moment deciding between the Sabaeans, Pontos or Koinen Hellion

[Ignopotens]

Thorakitai stratikoi? Taxeis triabloii? and you can of course get the Galatikoi Kuarthoroi in Tylis with a type 4. Tarabostes also are at least a cut above medium cavalry, I would say.

I think what I meant to say was "much if any"

I haven't played much in the late game yet, so I'm not that familiar with the use/availability of their higher level units

[Saeon]

So has anyone got anything to say on either Pontos or Koinen Hellion??

[Pharnakes]

Phalanxes ar e under powered and overpriced for the koinon, imho. Especialy as regards armour and secondary attack. And in pure numbers as wel, of course.

[mlp071]

If you looking for best mix of units, then go for Makedons. Hippeis Thessalikoi owns all other cavalry around there, phalanxs are toughest ones and generaly you get great mix of units. They do get best cavalry and infantry around.

Plus as bonus you get to destroy KH in beggining(same as Alexander Makedon), which is a quite enjoyment.

You have so many options with them. Offensive army, they got units for that. Defensive army, they got that. You can basicaly have 3-4 elite armies with all different units they get down the road.

In my campaign i was fielding all regional Gaul army recruited in Tylis and Singidunum on Balkans , All HA army around Black Sea and regular Makedon "hammer and anvil" army in Hellenic areas.And , none of them was weak.

That was in 208 BC though , so could take time.

Other then that i liked Casse units (nasty guys with 2h hammers and 2h swords are really rockin). No good cavalry till 220BC though. :2thumbsup:

[Pharnakes]

Makedon's hardly exactly a challange though ,is it?

[mlp071]

Nah , they are not, other then financial hole that they got at start.Was reffering to best units composition.

Majority of factions is not to much of challenge anyways,due to stupid AI, except steppe factions and Sabeans.

[Pharnakes]

Yeah, but especialy not Makedon.

[mlp071]

Yeah, but especialy not Makedon.

I found it same for all hellenic factions.I had same results with Epyros and KH.

Thats why you have house rules for playing, to make it more of a challenge.:yes:

[EasternScourge]

Nah , they are not, other then financial hole that they got at start.Was reffering to best units composition.

Majority of factions is not to much of challenge anyways,due to stupid AI, except steppe factions and Sabeans.
Well,he did say he wanted a challenge.So go for the Sabeans.But KH is fun too.I had a campaign with them once.It went pretty well.But it eventually got a bit on the easy side.Athens alone probably made the same amount of money my entire Sabean kingdom made every turn.

Besides,I haven't seen too many people getting excited over the Sabeans.Does anyone play as them other than me and The Errant?~:confused:

[Griever14206]

I am in the middle of a Sabean campaign at the moment. It is definetly interesting. I've conquered nearly the entire Arabian Peninsula, and have been constantly changing alliances with the AS and Ptolemaiois. The Persian portion of Seluekia is always poorly protected (it is nearly devoid of threats) and although I can't spare the troops to properly garrisson the large cities, I like to take them, enslave, and then destroy everything I can. Gives a real feeling of being a desert raider.

Oh, and the Sabean Citizen Calvary rock.

[mlp071]

Well,he did say he wanted a challenge.So go for the Sabeans.But KH is fun too.I had a campaign with them once.It went pretty well.But it eventually got a bit on the easy side.Athens alone probably made the same amount of money my entire Sabean kingdom made every turn.

Besides,I haven't seen too many people getting excited over the Sabeans.Does anyone play as them other than me and The Errant?~:confused:

Yeah that was my thing also. All 3 Greek based factions are fun, but they tend to get easy fairly fast.From my personal expirience, i found KH easiest(economy rocks), then Maks and Epyrotes afterwards.

I am curently trying Sauromatae, and thats load of fun. You are broke no matter what you do , hehe.I believe Sabeans are in same position.

i would say:

- real challenge : Steppe Factions and Saba

- decent challenge : Gauls factions, Lusotannan, and maybe somewhat Casse (early years)

- fairly enjoyable ride : everyone else

Never tried Seleukids though.It must be fun everyone going against you and half of your lands are rebelling.

[LusitanianWolf]

Besides,I haven't seen too many people getting excited over the Sabeans.Does anyone play as them other than me and The Errant?
Sabeans are pretty cool!!!! I have played an little with them and I've love it... I just want too see more new units to them as I love to have where to chose (even if I have regionals). Too bad I can play more until I have my new pc...

About Pontos they seem to be quite chalenging and maybe more than Saba at least at the very begining. It was one of the first nations I've tryed (after take an look at Lusitanians, of course) and while I was fighting hard to keep an insignificant positive economy at same time that an little levy army I got myself overruned from an Selek stack made from lots of phalanxs and two units wild naked crazy fanatics... I didnt had an chance. But at that time I didnt understand nothing of EB and I didnt had played RTW for more than an year... I'll have to try later with my new game experience.

I've played an little more with Lusotannan, Romanii and Epiros and I've found all them to be quite fun and, even if not dificult, chalenging at least for an long time retired and now reenlisted veteran ( like coort evocata :clown: )...

I never had played with gaul factions but arent they chalenging too? I mean you have the other gauls, sweboz, lusotannan, romani and Casse all around and no strategic place to start. Its an small place with lots of people around.....

[The Errant]

I am in the middle of a Sabean campaign at the moment. It is definetly interesting. I've conquered nearly the entire Arabian Peninsula, and have been constantly changing alliances with the AS and Ptolemaiois. The Persian portion of Seluekia is always poorly protected (it is nearly devoid of threats) and although I can't spare the troops to properly garrisson the large cities, I like to take them, enslave, and then destroy everything I can. Gives a real feeling of being a desert raider.

Oh, and the Sabean Citizen Calvary rock.

Someone else is a fan of those I see. Granted the Citizen Cavalry are the most expensive Medium Cavalry around. But they are also the best. Even better than Thrakioi Prodromoi.

I like the Sabaeans for their unique challenge (limited economics and restricted units). They are a great faction to teach a player about tactics.

Of the Greek factions my personal favorite is Epeiros. Mostly cause of the elephants and Chaonion Agema. They also get most of the same reagionals that Makedon gets, with the exception of Thrakioi Peltastai and Taxeis Triballoi.

I played Casse during my money script testing. Interesting barbarian faction. Greatest starting position. In my later games I simply bribed the surrounding Eleutheroi settlements into submission. No other faction are as well placed with no enemies coming on to you.

The Carthies are another great faction. They have wonderful factional troops and great Iberian reagionals. And the money to hire almost any interesting merc they encounter.

I recently started playing the Pahlava as part of the beta testing progress. It has tought me new respect for foot archers. Everybody knows that with even a couple of HA you can destroy much larger enemy stacks.
During a rebellion of Kiat I got a nice stack of Persian archers and a few Dahae raiders. That stack has so far taken something like 8 Seleukid settlements and a lot of their mercenary field armies to the grave in different parts of Persia.
My economy sucks and I'm constantly going into debt. But with just this single stack and the dregs of my starting army, I've been kicking the Seleukids out of most of their eastern holdings.

The hardest challenge are the Steppe factions. Mostly due to their downright lousy economy. But with the units they have. They can totally thrash civilized factions with their starting armies.

The second hardest challenge comes with factions like Saba and Pontos. Pontos is worse with their friendly neighbor already present next door. Saba atleast has breathing space with the desert between them.

The rest are of varying degrees between downright easy to moderatly challenging.

[Saeon]

Personally i luv the idea of playing a campaign with Sabaeans because they luk unique and challenging i'd lik to see some more units for them though, only just to add some different steps to the army more than anything. So i was planning to wait to see with these guys (as someone has said i believe) :P. I mostly just want to break from the Romans as i play them a lot and win with them a lot :P.

So i was thinking of Pontus or Koinen Hellenon like i said, Pontus certainly luks more challenging but what would people say about KH just to play it i mean you have your enermy right next to?

[Pharnakes]

Again, with Pontus I am waiting, the next build will see them with a decent generals body guard, and the revised regionlas can only be of benifit to a faction like Pontus. Koinon is fun though and the roster is pretty much complete (although they also are getting a revised GB next release).

[Intrepid Adventurer]

Hi all - I'm new here. (:

Am I only one loving the Romani? I didn't finish the original RTW, because I found this mod, but man these Romans are cool. I'm a sucker for heavy infantry anyway.

And I'm prolly a noob, but I play on VH/VH and nothing is easy for me, so enough of a challenge there...

[Redmeth]

The recommended difficulty is VH/M for an extra challenge with a strong faction like the Romani you can go for VH/H. VH/VH is where the Gaesatae will give you nightmares.

[Saeon]

lol since the recommended setting is VH/M no wonder it's a challenge :P. Romanii are great Heavy Infintry much better than anything going in my opinion. My problem is i've played them so much i need a change :D so i'm thinking something Greek or one of the Successor Armies at the moment Pontus most probably (a lot harder than Romanii).

[Veris]

Vh battle just isn't fun. Surrounding invincible units that never rout might be challenging but takes out a lot of the point in battles. Playing with weaker units/factions is much better if you want battles to be a challenge.

Brief note on successor armies for the following explanations:

The A.I does not know how to use cavalry/light infantry/reserves properly so successor armies have real ease in winning battles by using the phalanx to hold the line, elite infantry to plug gaps, and heavy cavalry and light infantry to create and exploit the glaring weakness's the A.I usually presents. This makes the Successor armies extremely easy to use, since there is no need for elaborate strategems ala Gaugamela to open a weak point for the decisive cavalry charge rather you just need to trot over to the flank or behind once the lines have engaged and charge away.

A Brief faction overview:

Casse: Isolated and a smaller selection of military with chariot/heavy infantry emphasis. A few choices in being able to ignore the rest of the world as long as you like or try to make a quick inroads in Gaul, Iberia, or Germania.

Arverni/Aedui: Position forces them in non-stop wars and being basically surrounded by enemies making the Gaul's adventure quite action packed though somewhat dependent on the A.I rather than your own choices. Infantry emphasis, with great reform units that come at quite reasonable times.

Sweboz: Easy start position lets you expand in a multitude of ways, since only enemy are the free states for quite a long time (especially east). Not particularly great of a military; the main focus is on several heavy infantry offensive units.

Luso: Mediocre start position, with you having a big potential debt yet 3 capable armies in the beginning. You can choose to conquer the free provinces or go right for Carthage, or even disband and build up economically. Imo one of the best armies in the game, with an early emphasis on light troops that are very capable in ambushes to a very flexible later army with excellent heavy shock infantry, decent line infantry (they tend to break somewhat quickly though), as well as good cavalry (lancerai are great for charging and Luso elite mediums have decent charge and excellent melee attack). They also have access to Balearic slingers.

Rome: Rather easy start position, since you have more than enough military to subdue Tarentum and there are no other immediate threats. A good amount of choices make the start position pretty interesting. A reasonable economy, especially if you go for the Mediterranean, as well as several ways to proceed. As per history, they have a very easy to use military that becomes top of the line as the game progresses, at least infantry-wise. Only problem is that current reform times will take forever to get unless you're willing to put in lots of time (since turns in a large empire take very long, getting to 125 is a slow and painful process).

Macedon: A tough start with two hostile neighbors on you but once they're taken care of you are in great shape. Have multiple choices of approach, whether north, then northwest/northeast, over to Italy, or into Asia Minor, or all of them! Very strong military, with the three main military differences from the successors being the reformed phalanx, the agrianes, and the thessalians (the latter two with Epirus).

Epirus: Several possibilities at the start and a tough situation if you choose to go for Italy and Greece at once. Excellent regional units and the elephants, while slightly underpowered for the cost, are still very strong against the unprepared A.I. Standard successor military otherwise.

KH: Pretty easy start position but limited in choices, at least until Greece is conquered. Military is somewhat efficient but hardly spectacular. An economic powerhouse from the start.

Pontus: A nasty start position gives them little time to prepare for the Seleucid menace and has a difficult time holding them off. Their military is mostly a successor type but has some good Galatian regionals and terrible bodyguards in exchange for the many elite units that the successors get (Chalkaspidai have very good stats iirc). Economy can be good, once, if, they can get going. An amusing strategy to try with them would be to play normally until the seleucids arrive, then pack your bags and migrate to the northern Black Sea area, living in safety and isolation with a multitude of ways to progress.

Getai: Very similar to the Sweboz, they start in complete isolation and can proceed with their campaign in many different ways. Drapanai are excellent, cost efficient shock infantry and form the core of their armies. The Thracian troops they get access too are kind of nice and unlike a lot of other barbarians their pre-reform cavalry doesn't suck. Overall the military feels restricted though.

Carthage: Probably the best economy in the game. You have three distinct choices of approach (Iberia, Italy, or eastern Africa). A nice mixed military, somewhat successor like but with excellent regionals (Iberians and Balearics particularly) as well as African elephants. An easy to play faction and quite fun as well.

Ptolemaics: A strong early start and an intensive war with the Seleucids give them little choice of where to proceed for a while. Typical successor military, though their elite phalanx really sucks afaik. Some decent regionals and possibility of fighting the Saba and Carthage along with the AS can make them interesting.

AS: Most time intensive faction there is with long turns happening from the start. Good if you like managing your empire and spending lots of time on logistics. Having to fight many enemies at once can be fun though. Arguably the best successor military, with the biggest selection of units.

Saba: Interesting start position that gives them several good choices (Egypt, Arabia, and India, or all three!) Few military choices and overall mediocre units makes their battles quite interesting and unique from the other factions. Definitely no walk in the park and good fun to play. The military is a double edged sword, with there being few choices within it, making it dull over time, but forces innovation and skill in battle with your limited means.

Bactria: Pretty easy start position, with the steppe factions being too poor to really do anything for awhile and having the prosperous Indian provinces up for grabs. Reasonable choices for expansion, though the war with the Seleucids will come sooner or later and can't be ignored, especially if you conquer anything of their provinces. Long distances could be an annoyance though. Typical successor military with elephants and of course the Bactrion Agema.

Parthia: Lots of Cataphract variations. More building choices than other steppe factions. Run into the same terrible economy as does Saka and Sauro but they can alleviate this somewhat with quick expansion southwards. Some choices, for they can go east into Bactria and India or south into Seleucia, or if you're insane, conquer the Steppe. Typical Steppe military, with some interesting cataphracts but pretty basic in general.

Sauro: Imo the most uninteresting faction but still worth a shot. Their economy is Steppe terrible until you would expand into the Black Sea area or further south. Military feels basic and doesn't contain the later flavor that the other Steppe factions have. However, they do get good regional access once they expand away from the Steppe which can make things more interesting. Start position gives you seemingly many options, which is the best thing they have going for them.

Hai: Starting position could be good but is crippled due to the forced, and potentially fast war with the relentless Seleucids. While you can expand in any direction, the steppe provinces are vastly unprofitable and can soak up too much manpower that you might need to fight the AS. At best, the Black Sea Kingdoms are up for grabs and you have several choices of how to proceed once you've split the Seleucid Empire in two. Economically they are better off than the other steppe peoples. (I don't think classifying them as steppe is correct but they are kind of a mix) The military is mostly cavalry orientated, though the infantry can be somewhat decent both as sieging and as a stable line in battle.

Saka: Starting in the corner of the world is kind of interesting, unfortunately the choices are rather limited. You can either pursue a steppe empire (very impractical and hard. i've done it; you have to make due with a tiny army for a long time and your only real defense is to give up land till your small force can take care of an invasion) or follow historic expansion and take on Bactria and later India. Typical steppe military, with great bodyguards, but the Indo-Greek later units are excellent and give their armies quite a flavor.

Rough Tiers of difficulty (high to low):

Pontus, Saba

Sauro, Parthia, Saka, Hai

Luso, Aedui, Arverni

All successors (Hardest successor probably AS due to internal problems, easiest probably Ptolemaics cause of economy) Getai

KH, Casse, Sweboz

Rome, Carthage

[mlp071]

Excellent evaluation, Veris.

I cannot agree more with all you wrote. It's nice to see that someone classified KH and Sweboz as they are, as very easy:2thumbsup:

[EasternScourge]

Thats a real good evaluation.Maybe find a way to get that stickied to solve questions like the one asked at the beginning.

[Redmeth]

Sauro: Imo the most uninteresting faction. Their economy is Steppe terrible until you would expand into the Black Sea area or further south. Military feels basic and doesn't contain the later flavor that the other Steppe factions have. Start position gives you seemingly many options, which is the one thing they have going for them.



I'd like to say that this is not true. Their factional units may mostly cavalry but you get access to many types of nobles, their factional foot units are only a few but you get access to many types of regionals through the allied governments.
Mixing Drapanai and Komatai with HA's is a great unit mix plus you have to adapt to the type of enemy.
The economy is very poor at the start but once you take Crimeea and move into Hayasdan lands the mines will help.
I enjoyed my Sauromatae campaign more than my Casse campaign which after the very interesting first 30 years it became a grind to push the Sweboz east and stop the Romans from crossing into Gaul near Massilia.
So they really are interesting, I think none of the EB factions are uninteresting. Maybe some are just too alike (Aedui, Arvernii; Sucessors, Maks, KH, Epeiros)

[Saeon]

Thanks for all the advices it's been very helpful, i will start a Pontic Campaign taking on the big AS kinda amuses me :P. A lot seems to be based on earily actions to, i was thinking of paying them a small tribute to "buy" a little more time. Is this a good stratigy cause i'm more of a builder i don't move quickly :D guess i'm like an old man really :P.

So is this a gd way to go, and should i keep my army to start with and take the city north of mine or should i disband a build up trade etc???

[Veris]

I'd like to say that this is not true. Their factional units may mostly cavalry but you get access to many types of nobles, their factional foot units are only a few but you get access to many types of regionals through the allied governments.
Mixing Drapanai and Komatai with HA's is a great unit mix plus you have to adapt to the type of enemy.
The economy is very poor at the start but once you take Crimeea and move into Hayasdan lands the mines will help.
I enjoyed my Sauromatae campaign more than my Casse campaign which after the very interesting first 30 years it became a grind to push the Sweboz east and stop the Romans from crossing into Gaul near Massilia.
So they really are interesting, I think none of the EB factions are uninteresting. Maybe some are just too alike (Aedui, Arvernii; Sucessors, Maks, KH, Epeiros)


I was under the impression that the Sauromatae did not get much regional access to infantry; my mistake then, I shall fix that.

I didn't really see that much purpose to the different types of noble cavalry, since they were rather similar in role and a few were just better. Plus, I know Saka does, and I think Parthia should too, get access to those cavalry as well, or at least some of them, which makes the Sauro less unique.

My main problem with them was that there seemed little reason to choose them over the other Steppe factions aside from their start location having no immediate enemies. Getting good regional infantry alleviates this somewhat, but I still don't think they compare favorably with the other Steppe factions. Have you played them? What were you thoughts on them?

I think every other faction is unique enough to be worth a playthrough, with the exception of both of the Gauls, since they are really too similar to play both, at least in succession. The three Greeks are quite unique imo. The KH is far different from the other two in military and they start out in an easier position, though one that gives less choices initially. The Mak/Epirote military has a number of key differences, and their start is unique enough, with one having to fight a two front war in Greece and the other starting with Pyrrhus and potentially being able to fight in Greece and Italy.

[Beefy187]

My favourite would be Casse so far. Except im having trouble invading the main land. Just quick question though. Do Casse have access to the mighty Gaesatae? Ill really love to have those in my army. If not does Lusotannia have access?

Thanks

[Pharnakes]

No, Arvernii, Aedui and Qarthadastim only.

[Redmeth]

No they don't have access to Gaesatae but don't worry the Casse have their champions (after the first reform) Calawre, Milnaht, Kluddargos plus the great Goidilic units in Ireland.
The Lusitans have the Didoskatelii (sp?) the Vascii heavy infantry that are the equivalent of tanks.