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Eastern heavy cavalry
Allright so I am still playing Brutii H/M and I attack Pontus. The first town I strike has a 3 units of spearmen outside the walls and the faction leader with his eastern heavy cav bodyguard.
I attack and simply send one hastati, two mercenary hoplites and my cretan archers to ram the gate. The rest of my army stays outside to prevent teh spearmen from coming in the side door and relieving the King.
After bashing in the gate, My two hoplites take position along the narrow main street, followed by the hastati and then the archers. The Enemy King led such a valiant charge that it broke the two hoplites units on after the other. I was flabbergasted! The King's unit was down by half and was still cutting through the Hastati like they were not even there. All this while under fire from the cretan archers whom I decided to withdraw after seeing what happened to the hoplites....
Now I am scared as this was only my first battle with Pontus. I hope this was only because it was the King's cav. I would hate to run into a stack which had 3 or 4 units like that...
Severous
06-06-2007, 20:25
Ive got a healthy respect for those guys. They are really powerful.
They will often throw their powerful missiles before charging. Ive even had them come outside and attack me when I was supposed to be the one attacking.
Shoot them to death with your archers beofre you move into the city. Mob them if you meet them in the open.
GeneralHankerchief
06-06-2007, 21:11
I agree with Severous's tactics.
In addition, I wonder why you're using Hastati against these people. I would hold off on further invasions until you either get Principes/Triarii or Marian Reforms and Cohorts (Cohorts are recommended). If you plan to push further into the East the Hastati just won't cut it.
Severous
06-06-2007, 21:49
Here was the crux point of my h/h Brutii battle against the might of Pontus and its Eastern generals...including King.
https://img409.imageshack.us/img409/747/brutii252s195vm.th.jpg (https://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brutii252s195vm.jpg)
It went on for ages.
No heavy infantry for me either. It was close.
I agree with Severous's tactics.
In addition, I wonder why you're using Hastati against these people. I would hold off on further invasions until you either get Principes/Triarii or Marian Reforms and Cohorts (Cohorts are recommended). If you plan to push further into the East the Hastati just won't cut it.
I do have principes they were just not used in that particular fight. When the rest of my army swept up the reinforcements, I used them to finish off the King.
I think what I will do is channel my very best units from the various fronts especially my cretan archers to the eastern front. It is only 253 so I am not going to get Marius anytime soon I will have to do with battle-hardened Principes.
I was just so surprised that a cavalry could do this to not one but two units of hoplites.
Omanes Alexandrapolites
06-07-2007, 16:14
Hi KidFury,
Don't worry! The Marius event can occur at anytime from 270BC right through to 14AD - it depends upon having a huge city, Imperial Palace, anywhere on the Italian peninsula and Scilly. Luckily, not on any dates! Hope this helps, cheers!
When fighting easterners, always try to fight them in a city rather than in the open, and always bring along some merc hoplites :)
wait... that's exactly what you did...
When fighting easterners, always try to fight them in a city rather than in the open, and always bring along some merc hoplites :)
wait... that's exactly what you did...
Now I am trying to figure out if you mean I did the right thing and just had bad luck or if that I need to fight easterners in the open and that the last thing I want is hoplites...
Stuperman
06-07-2007, 19:18
Hoplites+creatian archers work very well against the Chariots of the east. Probably just bad luck
Severous
06-07-2007, 19:52
All heavy cavalry generals will take apart lone phalanx units. Serve up two phalanx units one after the other and dont be surprised if you loose both ...especially to an enemy king.
Now if both phalanx had been in the same spot...creating a dense mass of men and spears. That probobly would have stopped the general. That is if the enemy missiles had left enough men to hold the line.
Try Eastern Mercenaries, they may be crap, but they are decent against cavalry and most importantly expendable. However this is only pre-Marius (and if you can't get enough Triarii), after Marius Auxilia fulfills that role much better.
Eastern mercenaries are very over priced. They are 600 denarii and usually die very easy vs any infantry threat.
I attack and simply send one hastati, two mercenary hoplites and my cretan archers to ram the gate. The rest of my army stays outside to prevent teh spearmen from coming in the side door and relieving the King.
Wait... What did your entire army consist of?
Eastern mercenaries are very over priced. They are 600 denarii and usually die very easy vs any infantry threat.
Wait... What did your entire army consist of?
Almost a full stack of mixed units. They met the incoming reinforcements and defeated them before going back in the city and killing the King.
Caliburn
06-12-2007, 08:49
I find that a merc hoplite army works very well in the east before the Marius thing, reinforced with enough archers and a couple of cavalry units. Take a few hoplites from Greece and the modern day Turkey, and with that force you can beat almost anything the Easterners can throw at you.
General's bodyguards and Cataphracts (even Cappadochian cavalry) are a problem, though, but that won't change ...ever.
Well,
The senate really helped me there. They gave me a mission to capture Patavium which at first I didn't want to do because I wanted to concentrate on my war in the east. I have Athens, Thessalonica and Sparta pumping out upgraded (large temple of Mars and Blacksmith) Principes and Larissa pumping out cavalry. Pergamum has just started producing archers but so far my Cretan archers are doing a superb job and careful micro has allowed me to keep these units intact.
So as I was saying, the senate sending me to Patavium was kinda crimping my style. Since I was going to move my faction leader Aulus Brutus out of Italy to my new capital of Thessalonica, I figured he might as well get some Fighting experience to at least be able to look his brothers Vibius (a 7 star general) and Amulius (a 10 star now called "Victor") in the eye. So he leaves Tarentum with some Hastati and equites and recruits mercenaries as he goes. He takes a ship to Salona and there links up with Scribonius his brother in law who has been posted there for the past 10 years.
Scrounging up units and hiring mercenaries, they manage to get together a full stack and take Segesta and patavium in 3 turns (with the help of my super spies). The senate rewards me with an exotic units.... War elephants!!!!
That in and of itself was cause for celebration but when I realized that these units at spawned at my capital which I had just moved to Thessalonica, just in time to make the latest boarding for the orient I felt an evil grin slowly spreading across my face.
The first time I tested them in battle (against unfortunate rebels who spawned near pergamum) the rout was so complete that I massacred 400 without losing a single man even though the enemy had brought plenty of missile units.
The mustering necessary for the taking of Patavium turns out to be very useful because the Germans decided to break our alliance and attack sieging both luvavum and campus Lazyges. As the Germans were rubbing their hands in expectation of the slaughter to come, 3 Roman armies (half stacks) seem to come out of the ground in and around these two cities. Scribonius makes camp off the outskirts of luvavum and Vibius leads his men in a forced march to Campus Lasyges. I send my diplomat who was received in the Enemy King's own tent.
"Thus says my Master: 'Though we seemed dead, we did but sleep'," he told them "He bids you in the name of our past friendship that before war opens its vasty jaws you should take pity of your country and of your people whiles yet my soldiers are in my command. Therefore to our best mercy give yourselves or like men proud of destruction defy us to our worst".
"An end to the fighting?" says the German "That is a good joke, some of you yet live!"
After routing the main German force at C. lazyges and bribing away a minor one, the Germans lifted the siege at Luvavum. But it is too little too late, War has begun and it shall not end until Germany is but a memory...
I hate the senate.... They tend to give me impossible missions. block this britions port. Well my navys in southern spain theres no way i could do that in 5 turns. The senate actually killed my intrest in rome when I tried them.(way after my seleucid campaing i love that hack) They outlawed my faction so I preped for total war. Then I win a major vic vs juli and now im back in the empire? NO this is total war now....How do i not have enough support to take rome? What the hells going on! Also there are only like 6 factions left. The 4 romans eygpt and sythia(not a major player) So im just getting bored.
Now I am trying to figure out if you mean I did the right thing and just had bad luck or if that I need to fight easterners in the open and that the last thing I want is hoplites...
Oh definately bad luck. If you had fought them in the open (and the AI was deciding to be remotely intelligent for once) then they would just run around you, tiring out your men, and killing them, a lot. At least in a city battle they can't outflank you and shoot into your backs, and the only place they'll be retreating to is the central plaza, where you can do much massacring... :)
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