walls shooting arrows?

[vyanvotts]

i may have been seeing things but in the demo i noticed that it wasnt just the arrow towers shooting arrows but it looked like the wooden walls and wooden gates were too, has anyone else noticed this or was it just my imagination, this would be very silly if it were true.

also on the demo i noticed that when you knocked down a wooden wall and it fell on some peasents and killed like 20, but the stone wall didnt seem to do this, neone else notice this?

[UglyJun]

yes i too noticed the shooting Walls? the towers are suposed to fire arrows i guees,but the walls???

[Orda Khan]

No1....No
No2....Yes
.............Orda

------------------
" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[The Black Ship]

Murder holes http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Does it have a barbican?

[Khan7]

Yes I too have witnessed the deadly falling walls.. quite impressive. However artillery itself does not seem to have much effect on even tightly packed, stationary troops.. which of course is not right, though I suppose it had to be this way for a number of reasons, which I will enumerate:

(1) MTW Artillery has about a gagillion times the firing rate as their actual historical models.

(2) MTW Artillery can be used on the battlefield to demolish walls with lightning speed, so they have to be balanced. One of the ways to achieve the balance is to limit effectiveness for other purposes.

Ah well.. it's what we've got.. it's an improvement.. but I think that the ways yet that they have to go is definitely due to a lack of obvious innovation, rather than the usual excuses-- lack of technology, lack of time.

Matt

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Quote Originally posted by Khan7:
Yes I too have witnessed the deadly falling walls.. quite impressive. However artillery itself does not seem to have much effect on even tightly packed, stationary troops.. which of course is not right, though I suppose it had to be this way for a number of reasons, which I will enumerate:

(1) MTW Artillery has about a gagillion times the firing rate as their actual historical models.

(2) MTW Artillery can be used on the battlefield to demolish walls with lightning speed, so they have to be balanced. One of the ways to achieve the balance is to limit effectiveness for other purposes.

Ah well.. it's what we've got.. it's an improvement.. but I think that the ways yet that they have to go is definitely due to a lack of obvious innovation, rather than the usual excuses-- lack of technology, lack of time.

Matt[/QUOTE]

What artillery are you guys using/talking about?

Demi Culverins and Culverins are deadly against massed ranks of troops - again i wonder if this is a difference between the demo and the version I played.....

[vyanvotts]

Quote Originally posted by UglyJun:
yes i too noticed the shooting Walls? the towers are suposed to fire arrows i guees,but the walls??? [/QUOTE]

yeah it fires like one arrow at a time, its silly bcause at lest that it is possible for somone to be inside the arrow tower, but on the ramparts of the wall there is no one there, and it looks stupid an arrow coming from no where, at least they could put men on there?

[DrNo]

Vyanvotts,
It's a good idea but I think putting men on walls etc.. would then lead to why can't I shoot that man with my archers? Or where's the stairs to get to him with my melee units?
Or even why can't I move my archers on top of the wall?

Anyone played Stonghold?
It does the siege thing quite well but that's all the game is, no major land battles like STW/MTW.

Combining the 2 games would be great but wether the engine of MTW could accomodate it
is the problem.

I figure if there is something like the arrows coming from walls then pretend there is a man up there and he has ninja hiding skills http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
A Trebuchet will soon sort him out http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif


On the artillery firing rate as anyone found anywhere to mod the range etc.. of ranged weapons in the demo?
I have done a search and come up with nothing. The Ship stats include range in the units file, but it would be nice to be able to customise artillery and archers to create additional units or to balance effectivness.
Here's hoping the neccessary will be in the full game.

[vyanvotts]

Quote Originally posted by DrNo:

Anyone played Stonghold?
It does the siege thing quite well but that's all the game is, no major land battles like STW/MTW.
[/QUOTE]

hell yea i have stronghold, it rules lol the one problem with that was the men had life bars and i hate games with life bars, its unrealistic. also i dont think there was enough men on the maps, and maps were to small.

one problem with what DrNo said about having to imagine men on the walls is whats the point of having arrow towers if theres "imaginary" men on the walls already. also if you wanted to succesfully assult a castle instead of just taking out the arrow towers you have to take out all the walls aswell to stop yourself being hit.

[Sjakihata]

Does those walls/towers run out of arrows, like normal archers?

[DrNo]

Vyanvotts I was replying to your idea of having a graphic of a man on the wall more than the actual idea of walls firing.

Are you sure the arrows came from the walls and not from the towers behind or even the keep? They have great range.
I moved my units up to the pallisade wall and then they were not getting hit, so I assumed it was just the towers that fired.

I think an experiment is in order. Take out just the towers and see if you are still getting hit etc..
With the accuracy of the artillery taking out just the towers might be a problem.

I'll give it a go and see what happens and let you know.

[vyanvotts]

im sure the walls were firing, i saw arrows coming directly out of the wall and when i knocked down the wall they suddenly stopped. they were hitting my nearest treb and i targeted that wall and as soon as it was gone my treb was not getting hit

[DrNo]

Well just did my experiment, set up 8 catapults around the Castle in Antioch battle and took out all the towers including the ones on the keep.
Then took out the keep as well.
Then took out the 3 buildings.

Guess what still getting arrow fire from all around the castle perimeter and it wasn't from the actual archers.

So Vyanvotts you are dead right on arrows from walls.
We shall just have to assume those invisible ninja's are up there.
Arrow towers will be able to fire further(I guess) and give more power to a castle so that's the reason for having them.


I am glad this subject came up as I don't think I would ever have played this battle again. But now I have and the siege effects are truly great.
The way the towers crack as they fall and the impacts on them. Zoom right in on a tower and you will see what I mean.

I also had catapults set up firing directly opposite one another, this lead to stray shots landing at my own troops feet. The way the rocks bounce is great. You get about 3 or 4 good bounces out of them and earth flung towards the camera.

Did take a few friendly fire casualties!

[vyanvotts]

i knew i wasnt imagining it. i got to try editing some maps myself, is it complicated?

btw i never knew you could zoom in? how do you zoom in? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

[DrNo]

When I said zoom in I meant move the camera right over the top of a tower rather than watch from distance.

We can't actually change the maps yet.
Editing your army composition is easy though, just go into either the historical or tutorial battle folders and edit the files with Notepad.

[vyanvotts]

i managed to edit it and add a few more trebs but i cant seem to understand the positions, im just guessing where there going. and they usally end up in wrong place

[UglyJun]

Quote Originally posted by DrNo:
Editing your army composition is easy though, just go into either the historical or tutorial battle folders and edit the files with Notepad.

[/QUOTE]

sorry i can't see any battle folder or historical folder in the demo at all, or any file to edit stats? plz enlighten me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[DrNo]

Jun, happy to oblige

Path to files is:

\Total War\Medieval - Total War (Demo Version)\Battle\batinit\Historical Battles\Jaffa

And for Tuttorials look in here:
\Total War\Medieval - Total War (Demo Version)\Battle\batinit\Tutorial

Edit the bdf and adf file with Notepad.

Vyanvotts, if you are talking about the antioch_practice, think of the x,y axis then turn them through 90 degrees of what you thought. In the original battle the castle is to the east of your position.

Try this for some fun catapult play, replace your 2 catapults and 2 trebs with these:


UnitStart::"catapult1"

InitialLeaderName::"Etienne de Bourbon"
IsGeneral::true
//Position:: 14163 23100
Position:: 22000 20000
Direction::1
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

UnitStart::"catapult2"

InitialLeaderName::"Gaston Sorel"
IsGeneral::true
//Position:: 14009 24350
Position:: 22500 19000
Direction::1
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

UnitStart::"catapult3"

InitialLeaderName::"Etienne de Bourbon"
IsGeneral::true
//Position:: 14163 23100
Position:: 27000 20000
Direction::1
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

UnitStart::"catapult4"

InitialLeaderName::"Gaston Sorel"
IsGeneral::true
//Position:: 14009 24350
Position:: 28000 20000
Direction::1
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

UnitStart::"trebuchet1"

InitialLeaderName::"Antoine de Bourbon"
IsGeneral::true
//Position:: 15750 31900
//Position:: 15500 31650
Position:: 23000 32000
Direction::180
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

UnitStart::"trebuchet2"

InitialLeaderName::"Jean Sorel"
IsGeneral::false
//Position:: 16500 32650
Position:: 23500 32000
Direction::180
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::


UnitStart::"trebuchet3"

InitialLeaderName::"Antoine de Bourbon"
IsGeneral::true
//Position:: 15750 31900
//Position:: 15500 31650
Position:: 30000 31000
Direction::225
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

UnitStart::"trebuchet4"

InitialLeaderName::"Jean Sorel"
IsGeneral::false
//Position:: 16500 32650
Position:: 30000 32000
Direction::225
GeneralRank::1
LeaderHonour::10 //?????
UnitMon::1 //?????
TroopType::catapultcrew
TroopNum::40
TroopHonour::8
Columns::10
CurveRadius::0
FormationType::FORMATION_CLOSE
//MeleeMode::ENGAGE_AT_WILL
//FatigueLevel::FRESH //?????
HoldPosition::true //????
UnitEnd::

[Kraellin]

90 degrees which way, drno?

K.


------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[UglyJun]

i got the demo of Yas and there is no ---\Battle\batinit\Historical Battles\Jaffa---
in the Medieval folder http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif looks like i got to download the real thing when it comes out tomorrow?
i unzipped demo into new folder is that the prob?

[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 06-25-2002).]

[vyanvotts]

thanx for that drno i tried it and it was good but the catupults were to close to the castle and they all got arrowed to death http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif need to be further away

[This message has been edited by vyanvotts (edited 06-25-2002).]

[DrNo]

vyanvotts, I put them close to ensure I could hit everything and upped the men to 40 to keep all cats firing while taking casualties.

The key is not to target the towers nearest the catapults as for some reason they just plain miss at short range, get a crossfire action going and all the towers will be down before you lose all the men.

Jun, does your demo work?

[vyanvotts]

yeah i nocticed that it completely misses sum of the towers, its werid. but it was pretty cool with all the stones going every where

[vyanvotts]

lol, just changed the castle seige map so i was the defender and didnt change anything else about it just that, very hard keeping ur men safe from catupults, i won the mission but only with 33 men left! very difficult with big balls comin at ya from all angles hehe

[UglyJun]

yes, i dont know why http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif with the missing folders and all???

[DrNo]

Jun those files must be there somewhere,
do a search for *.bdf or *.adf

[UglyJun]

dohh i found them!!! i had 2 folders of medievil got confused http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif hehehe
thx for your help, going to try out the edit now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Fast Death]

It won't let me save as an adf... keeps warning me that it will save it as a text file.... even when I type in the extension.

????

[Emp. Conralius]

what's up with the mosques and shacks "shrinking" once bombarded?!

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
what's up with the mosques and shacks "shrinking" once bombarded?![/QUOTE]

I would assume that is them going from say 'legendary' -> 'famous' in building stature... would be better modeled if it was an array of buildings... but that may make it hard to deal with the damage if you take out the inital structure first rather then the latest add on.

[DrNo]

FastDeath, did you associate the file types adf and bdf with Notepad before opening.

This might solve the problem, also try the save as option.