CHALLENGE 2: Mongols vs Turks

[Shahed]

http://www.byzantines.net/byzcathculture/images/mongols.jpg

Greetings All !

Welcome to the 2nd custom battle challenge !

PURPOSE of this challenge is:

FUN.
Novelty.
WARgaming !.
Something challenging.
Learning something new, a new way to fight (for those who have not fought like this).
Competition, if YOU choose to compete. If you choose not to compete, just play, enjoy it & have fun.


RULES

Normal Unit Size.
VH difficulty.
Night.
Grassy plains.
Must use custom battle setup file: DOWNLOAD LINK (http://www.sendspace.com/file/7gmzxg); install to your \Medieval II Total War\custom folder.
Must deploy as instructed in deployment chart below.
Combat Groups must always operate together as one unit.
Combat Groups must always support each other.
Pause allowed but discouraged.
Must post your results, preferably in Battle Results & Battle Statistics screenshots.
Extra credit for battle after action reports with screenshots.
Any covert or overt disrespect to any player results in instant disqualification. No exceptions.
No cheating, no exploiting. Remember, if you cheat you only cheat yourself.

Challenge ends 15th June 2007 23:00 Central European Time.


DEPLOYMENT CHART
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/M2TW%20Army%20Compositions/Challenge2MongolsvsTurks.jpg

In case anyone does not know, once you have downloaded the setup file and placed it in /Medieval II Total War/custom:

Go to Single Player.
Custom Battle.
Choose map.
Choose time.
Choose difficulty.
Click Next.
Click Next.
Click the Load/Save Battle button.
Load "Challenge2_MongolsVsTurks", or double click.


Questions/Comments ? Then fire away.

Some of my personal pointers to make it fun & challenging:

DONT use pause AT ALL.
Deploy exactly as shown and keep units in a combat group in formation as long as you can.
DONT charge just because you can.
Use tact, and imagine you're playing a strategy game, not an arcade game.
Follow the deployment & tactics above.
Keep units in your groups together at all times, even when they are secure.
Use your groups in tandem, they are linked. Imagine them as weapons with a chain, all linked together.
You strike with one, pull back, strike with another.
Avoid using auto fire, unless shooting while moving.


Good luck and have fun !

[hisn00bness]

This one actually seems pretty hard to complete on first sight... given the large amount of enemy missile troops and anti-cav.

I'll give it a shot later tonight when I have time; just wanted to bump it so that more people get interested... the last challenge was kinda neat.



How the heck are we supposed to get decent screenies though without using Pause ^^

[Shahed]

LOL yeah ! It's hard without pause as it is (IMO anyway).

You're not obliged to play without pause. I suggested that because it seemed a lot harder like that. Thanks for the bump.

[khaos83_2000]

I'm not trying to be funny here but ...
imo, this will be impossible if played against 2 human players or even difficult against newbie players.

If against AI, have to take advantage of the AI flaws effectively. but still will be difficult.

Good luck and god speed to all generals.

[Ars Moriendi]

VH, no pausing, outnumbered 3-to-1, and using that deployment ???

First one to win this (honestly, no cheating) forward me your address, I'll buy you beer for the rest of your life.

NOTE : I've tried twice, got pounded into the ground by the fine mix of archers, sipahis, musketeers and quapukuls the turks presented. Sorry Sinan, this one is for the likes of Ender Wiggin...

[Shahed]

Yeah I was thinking it's hard too. I lost thrice and 4th time I thought I was getting there, will have to try again.
Well if pause helps then use it by all means. Drop difficulty to medium perhaps ?

[Ars Moriendi]

How the heck are we supposed to get decent screenies though without using Pause ^^

1. Win battle
2. Save replay
3. Playback in Cinematic Editor
4. Take screenshots at leisure

Steps 2-4 are quite easy; wish you good luck with step 1.

[Shahed]

I think it would be hard enough with only the enemy right army ? Hmm nope, then it would be too easy.
Lemme give it some thought. I think I will drop the infantry from the enemy left, then it should be hard enough.

[khaos83_2000]

I think it would be hard enough with only the enemy right army ? Hmm nope, then it would be too easy.
Lemme give it some thought. I think I will drop the infantry from the enemy left, then it should be hard enough.


i suggest start by changing all the spear units to sword units if possible, or change to lower tier spear unit.

[Joshwa]

What the heck is with that website that the picture of the horse archer came from? 'Byzantine Catholics' who like the pope?! Travesty! Pope must die!

[Slug For A Butt]

I think I've just realised the difference between people like you and me. You all think this is a reasonable ask, I've been ground into the dust trying this on medium for Gods sake, 3 times.
Good luck to you all, I've just proved myself to be quite the amateur. :shame:

[Bijo]

*snip*

A most challenging setup you put forth. I assume you expect almost-perfect heavy tactical use of the provided horse archers who only suffer very minimal casualties. If a person can defeat the AI on VH with the setup, then... ****: good job!

The fact that Grassy Plain must be selected as area only makes matters worse, as you cannot make use of any elevation at all to provide a little playground to be pragmatically used, never mind trees.

[Shahed]

I think this is too hard. I'll make some changes as soon as I have some time.

[Alsn]

Id say remove some of the "rules" will make it more of an actual challenge and less of an "act" where you have to use a single scenario which may well be impossible :P

Letting people try and come up with "their own" solution on how to deploy and fight is what defines a challenge imho.

[Alsn]

http://alsn.net/average%20defeat.jpgThis is about the best i can manage, this is with trying to the fullest with pausing all the time and not using "preset" formations. I managed another game that was classified as a "close" defeat but forgot to screenshot it(the only difference was that i managed to kill maybe 50 more enemies or so.

Basically what happens is that if i attack the "advanced" force(The one with janissary musketeers and the heavy cav) i just get pounded into the ground hella fast. The musketeers dont instarout while charged and the AI sends the heavy cav instantly to pursue my lancers all the while their missile units just keep firing after my lancers are wiped out(or when theyre attempting to retreat and recharge, those muskets hurt, bad).

The best success ive had was to deploy on the west side of the map(the tactic i used in the screenshot and the other "close" defeat) and to use my HA to tangle up the sipahis and turkomans and the lancers to simply charge and instarout their infantry(no high morale/armor infantry in this army so they basically rout as soon as they are charged). I could consistently kill that entire army sustaining about ~15-20% casualties, however what then followed was simply getting owned even more by the musketeers and heavy cav of the more advanced army.

All in all id say the "gunpowder" army would be challenging enough if one was to abide by no pause and sticking to your "battlegroups". Adding the second army and also adding strict rules as to how youre allowed to do it is just overkill.

I have faith in that if someone can figure out how to beat the gunpowder and heavy cav based army without dying with their melee cavalry they would easily be able to dispatch the less technological army without too much trouble, but im not interested in trying anymore as ill probably have nightmares of ranged units owning up my heavy cavalry in melee for the rest of my life(whos bright idea was it to equip footknights with rifles and call it balanced?! :P)