Goidilic Hammer Units questions

[EasternScourge]

Though before you close it,I do kind of want to know where those Irish unts with the big hammers came from.Mostly because I never thought people would actually use large hammers as weapons (not that I'm doubting they existed or anything).

[abou]

Here is an old, interal post by Khelvan, who unfortunately is on hiatus.


Goidilic hammers:

Two-handed hammers have been found in numerous burials; For instance, three two-handed hammers were found in a single burial north of Wexford in Ireland. The most prolific burial was was found in the burial of a Brehon judge/druid south of Sligo, where in were found numerous other objects.

The Ulster Cycles and the Book of the Dun Cow mention the hammer as the favored weapon of the Volunts, Carrants, and Bannats. Feinachas (the Gaelic laws) also make mention of hammers, and who is allowed to use them (only those deemed champions by their chieftains; only cheiftains and higher arras may purchase or order production of hammers). The cycle Toighal mentions the usage of two-handed hammers (modified work hammers, actually) as a common method of countering armor from foreign invaders (usually Britons, with chain or bronze plate).

A few stories about Cu Chullain, including some found in the Tain, have him training with a two-handed hammer as well as a sword. He had trained to fight with it under a female teacher; it was a fairly common Goidilic weapon. The poem 'Dun da nFerg' states plainly that the hammer (both one and two-handed) was the favored weapon of devoted followers of the Dagda (as he used a large hammer). Dun da nFerg is a poem about an attack on a fortress (the fort of Ferg), beset by a number of tribes from Britain, and compares them to Gallic invaders. It mentions what weapons both sides used (and talks briefly about the 'foreigners from the south sea'; Gaul). It mentions both two-handed hammers and two-handed swords, in addition to many other weapons. Every weapon and piece of armor mentioned, we've at least found chunks of in battlefield excavations (particularly one east of Gort, south of Loughrea, near the Burren), so clearly the weapons exist. According to it, while the hammers and swords were rare, they weren't THAT rare.

[EasternScourge]

Ok,thanks.Just wanted that cleared up.

[Laundreu]

bumpin dis

Is there any more information on the Dun na nFerg? Availability in English, etc? I can't find any mention of it (or the various other cycles and Goidilic myths, legends, histories, etc listed in the thread the above quote was taken from) in my admittedly limited searches, but this is primarily due to the fact that searching for phrases in a foreign language is inherently a hit-or-miss affair. (Note: when I speak of searches I mean in academic archives, not trawling Google, which I'd trust with Celtic histories about as far as I could throw horse barehanded.)

[HFox]

I remember from previous posts a high level of interest in reading these 'cycles' ......that availability was only direct, and they weren't in a published form as most are in private collectors hands.

I remember someone mention about negotiations currently happening to make them available to a wider audience.....but I dont think this is going to happen in the short term.

Im sure someone will chime in soon with an accurate version of this.....some of which I may have remembered incorrectly. :)

[Laundreu]

I hope so. I am a student of history who is trying to focus in on Celtic stuff, only to discover that, woefully, the history programs here in the South of the United States seem ever-so-focused on the American Civil War - it is as if there is some sort of grudge or bone to pick!

Regardless it means I am limited to textual sources for my edification. If these sources are inaccessible...well. It's a terrible thing.

[Lowenklee]

In the meantime you may be well advised to make an attempt at learning a bit of Gaelic even if only for pronunciations sake. The more credible academic texts and translations of the hero cycles tended to retain the gaelic spellings for proper nouns. To this day I instinctively clench my teeth thinking about the problems I had trying to pronounce those long vowel consonent strings...especially the welsh gaelic ones:dizzy2:

Finally I relented and bought a "teach oneself Irish Gaelic" book/tape combo's. It was actually pretty fun although I'll be damned if I remember much more than slainte:laugh4:

Best of luck with the celtic studies!

[Casuir]

I'd imagine these texts are in middle or even old irish as opposed to the modern spoken version. Be a good place to start though. Some of the more well known texts are available online at http://www.ucc.ie/celt/publishd.html while the some of the original manuscripts can be seen at http://www.isos.dias.ie/english/index.html
You'd really need to be a scholar to make head or tail of them though, I've 12 years of school irish and they might as well be latin.

[Riadach]

nvm