Merchant Guild Headquarters Nerfs Merchants!

[Slicendice]

Has anyone noticed something peculiar about the MGHQ? Whenever I get it all the sudden my merchants have a decreased ability to acquire enemy merchants. Their probability of success goes way down and it requires a merchant of vast superiority to acquire another merchant.

What's up with that?

[FactionHeir]

Err not really. Are you sure the enemy merchants didn't just gain a few points?
Since 1.02, the difference in finance in terms of impact on CoS has been greatly increased.

[Sheogorath]

I prefer to aquire merchants the old fashioned way. With assassins.
Ah, the second oldest profession. Killing people for money.

This game needs a 'Field of Impaled Merchants' structure which can be built on ones borders. That'd keep those funny-smelling other-language speaking merchants out of my empire.
Plus my faction leader would have somewhere to lunch.

[Slicendice]

"This game needs a 'Field of Impaled Merchants' structure which can be built on ones borders. "

Worked for Count Dracula.


But seriously as soon as I get the HQ my merchants ability drops even though their acumen stays the same.

[WhiskeyGhost]

it may be adjusting for how your new merchants will get the +2 global finance. Also, there could be something about relations as well, or capitol distance (if either of those has changed, since going to war breaks off trade rights)

[FactionHeir]

it may be adjusting for how your new merchants will get the +2 global finance. Also, there could be something about relations as well, or capitol distance (if either of those has changed, since going to war breaks off trade rights)

There is no +2 global finance with the HQ. CA missed adding the MerchantsGuildMember trait's second level to the trait file.

[WhiskeyGhost]

There is no +2 global finance with the HQ. CA missed adding the MerchantsGuildMember trait's second level to the trait file.
right, my bad.

what i was trying to say it maybe the computer was cheating to make up for the bonus you were gonna have against them :laugh4:

[Kobal2fr]

There is no +2 global finance with the HQ. CA missed adding the MerchantsGuildMember trait's second level to the trait file.

I don't think that an omission. You assume that merchant guilds are supposed to work like spy ones, but they just have different benefits. Merchant guild level 1 gives trade bonus and early access to cav instead of +1 to agents, that's all.

[FactionHeir]

Not all factions get cav from Merchant's guild though, and a +1 bonus with slight increase in trade goods probably isn't as great as say +3 cav bonus or +2 bonus with weapons upgrade+6 or +15% law bonus (ability to train 2hp units) and +2 skill like assassins

[Zarky]

Merchants guild gives your cities access to cavalry (but quite crappy ones for Europeans, expects Italy) gives +10%/+20%/+30% increase to trade income (or so they say) and gives merchants increase to finance rating when recruiting, what´s so bad in them?
Actually ALL success rates have dropped since 1.0 (maybe 1.01 but i haven´t installed it, went straight to 1.02) like with Spies, with 2 skill you had like 75% or higher, now it´s around 50% change to success (without +/-security)... And if you haven´t thought it right, AI also has less changes on everything (or at least they should)
And you can´t get +2 to weapons rating even with Master swordsmiths guild, it´s just Global +1 and +1 local which doesn´t stack...
Acquisition success change depends on is the enemy merchant on trade resource or not (it really does) and his skill vs. your skill... I don´t think anything else matters...

[Slicendice]

All I know is that a 10 acumen merchant going up against a 4 acumen has a 70% chance to win. It used to be 95%.

[Kobal2fr]

Not all factions get cav from Merchant's guild though, and a +1 bonus with slight increase in trade goods probably isn't as great as say +3 cav bonus or +2 bonus with weapons upgrade+6 or +15% law bonus (ability to train 2hp units) and +2 skill like assassins

Well, some faction have easy access to the breeder guild, some have easy access to sword guild, some have their own exclusive little archer club, some have battlefield assassins... and some have great cav from the merch guild :yes:.

It's all about flavor. I'm not sure balance is really that important campaign-wise. I mean, whichever faction you're playing is overpowered by the simple fact that it's a human playing it, instead of a semi-random collection of triggers.

Oh, and besides 10% more trade is not that much per se, but coupled with huge trade provinces like Antioch, Venice or Stockholm it becomes quite significant.

[FactionHeir]

You could make the same argument for building cav at a citadel that has a knight hq (+2), tourney field (+2) and you got a horsebreeder hq (+2) and swords guild (+1) somewhere else. :p (train gold chev cav from the get go)
But yes, the game isn't completely balanced and I agree that being human already gives you a bonus. Still, for the AI it would be nice to have the 2 levels.

[Foz]

You could make the same argument for building cav at a citadel that has a knight hq (+2), tourney field (+2) and you got a horsebreeder hq (+2) and swords guild (+1) somewhere else. :p (train gold chev cav from the get go)
But yes, the game isn't completely balanced and I agree that being human already gives you a bonus. Still, for the AI it would be nice to have the 2 levels.

Won't it also benefit the human? Sure looks like it to me, in which case I fail to see the logic behind it being good for the AI to have the 2 levels. It really doesn't matter what you make the effect as long as it affects all the factions the same, and changing it doesn't seem like it could change things much since the difference will be felt by both human and AI factions. A more well-grounded reason would have to be that it is underpowered compared to other city guilds, a case which I'm not sure you can make. The combination of a normal agent bonus progression, merchant cav, and a base trade bonus seems like more extra abilities than other guilds have, and thus likely makes it too good by comparison. Of course one could suggest that the merchant cav are nearly worthless and thus simply not count that ability at all, but I doubt that's what CA did, which may be why the progression for agent bonus is set back a level.

OTOH it would be a lot more beneficial to forum discussions to have the usual progression, since we wouldn't have to keep talking about the silly merchants guild having a different bonus progression than the other agent guilds. I'm on the fence for this one, and it could sneak into my upcoming guild mod as a result. Lord knows it would be nice to have the base merchants guild do something useful instead of just give a few extra florins and some stupid cavalry...

[Kobal2fr]

The merchant cavalry is "stupid" only in the case of western christian powers who get the lance-less kind. The Italian one is almost equal to Mailed knights, the Eastern one is on par with Hobilars, and the Muslims get pure, unaldulterated Arab Cav if I'm not mistaken. That's not weak by any stretch of the word.

And besides, even the silly "lances ? We don't need no stinking lances !" western merchant cav is good enough for chasing routers, which is pretty much all you need cav for in siege defense, no ?