Bring back corporal punishment (for adults) !

[doc_bean]

Why did we ever abandon it ?

Looking at some of the problems the justice system has today (not sure if they apply everywhere):

-prisons are overcrowded
-keeping prisoners is expensive
-petty thieves enter a prison and leave as big criminals
-the safety of prisoners is often not guaranteed, or order is not kept to a sufficient degree (smuggling of drugs)

Now, we can solve those problems, at least partially, by bringing back corporal punishment for 'minor' crimes.

Shoplifing ? 20 lashes !
Drunk driving ? 20 lashes and you lose your permit !
Fraud ? 30 lashes and you're paying it back, or you get a lash per € missing !

Not only will this makes the justice system cheaper to maintain, it also won't make the prisoners incapable of going to work, so the economy benefits too ! And just to add an extra deterrent, we can publicly broadcast the lashings, seel the rights to Fox or something.
Of course, pedophiles, murderers and rapists we should still lock up to protect society, but think of all the small time crooks we could (cheaply) set straight !

So, what do you think ?

[Fragony]

blabla how could you sarcasm, 50 lashes :whip:

I like what that american judge does, shoplifters have to wear a 'I am a thief' shirt for example. Bring back this;

http://www.kvw-verhuur.nl/media/schandpaal.jpg

and this

http://weblogs.nrc.nl/weblog/kokenetc/wp-content/uploads/tomaat.jpg

for shame :tomato::tomato:

[Major Robert Dump]

I could go for a spanking.

[seireikhaan]

If they're convicted beyond a shadow of doubt, I'm all for roughing them up a little bit instead of jail time for minor offenses. Personally, I'd like to see drunk driving get one of the most severe punishments. I'm thinking more like 100 lashes and you lose your license.

[CountArach]

If they're convicted beyond a shadow of doubt, I'm all for roughing them up a little bit instead of jail time for minor offenses. Personally, I'd like to see drunk driving get one of the most severe punishments. I'm thinking more like 100 lashes and you lose your license.
That + Paris Hilton = Scary thoughts

[sapi]

Don't worry, there'd be a new range of lash-torn fashion spin-offs out within the week.

[Fragony]

That + Paris Hilton = Scary thoughts

Not as scary as the Paris sexdoll they wanted to make, I bet it can say daddy :fainting:

[CountArach]

Not as scary as the Paris sexdoll they wanted to make, I bet it can say daddy :fainting:
True, not much could be scarier than that.

[Lorenzo_H]

Birching!!! Birching I say!!!

I live in the last country to abolish it and hanging. The Isle of Man only dropped the death by hanging penalty and birching in the 1970s. Because of my law studies, I have met the last judge to sentence 4 people to death by hanging!

[Bijo]

Your idea, doc_bean, has merit. Naturally it would be questioned by certain entities such as "the people" and relevant authorities. If such an idea be proposed in higher circles I wonder the reactions of authorities and the people. I expect some to embrace it while rejoicing and others to oppose it in disgust.

[Soulforged]

So, what do you think ?
It won't work, the pain is temporary and the burglar or the thief will endure it with pleasure just so they can commit the crime again, also it's counter human dignity. However, against the first arguement, one could say that this could work on their first offense and they get warned that on their second offense, if it's similar to their first typical crime, they get jailed normally. This last option will bring a lot of lawyers against it, but you can still argue it...

[Husar]

It won't work, the pain is temporary and the burglar or the thief will endure it with pleasure just so they can commit the crime again
There are already people who walk in and out of prisons almost on a daily basis and I'm not talking about the guards...
Some people aren't being hurt by a prison, it's almost part of their life, but the lashes, they will hurt everytime again and again, masochists will still be put into a prison I guess.:laugh4:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Why did we ever abandon it ?

Looking at some of the problems the justice system has today (not sure if they apply everywhere):

-prisons are overcrowded
-keeping prisoners is expensive
-petty thieves enter a prison and leave as big criminals
-the safety of prisoners is often not guaranteed, or order is not kept to a sufficient degree (smuggling of drugs)

Now, we can solve those problems, at least partially, by bringing back corporal punishment for 'minor' crimes.

Shoplifing ? 20 lashes !
Drunk driving ? 20 lashes and you lose your permit !
Fraud ? 30 lashes and you're paying it back, or you get a lash per € missing !

Not only will this makes the justice system cheaper to maintain, it also won't make the prisoners incapable of going to work, so the economy benefits too ! And just to add an extra deterrent, we can publicly broadcast the lashings, seel the rights to Fox or something.
Of course, pedophiles, murderers and rapists we should still lock up to protect society, but think of all the small time crooks we could (cheaply) set straight !

So, what do you think ?
It wouldn't work well. The successful crime fighting strategy that has been employed in the today most peaceful of the European countries works to improve the self-confidence of the small-time criminals and get them out of crime, and don't work to break down the criminal even further and humiliate him/her publicly. Public violence and executions to fight crime will only increase the power and abuse thereof among judges, ministers and other influential people, cause fear of authorities and undermine democracy, and bring us back to the Dark ages. Not to mention that it would increase crime tremendously. If a broken down, poor overtaxed man does shoplifting to get food for the day gets public beating for it, what do you think he will do? I know what I would do: I would go postal

[doc_bean]

It wouldn't work well. The successful crime fighting strategy that has been employed in the today most peaceful of the European countries works to improve the self-confidence of the small-time criminals and get them out of crime, and don't work to break down the criminal even further and humiliate him/her publicly. Public violence and executions to fight crime will only increase the power and abuse thereof among judges, ministers and other influential people, cause fear of authorities and undermine democracy, and bring us back to the Dark ages. Not to mention that it would increase crime tremendously. If a broken down, poor overtaxed man does shoplifting to get food for the day gets public beating for it, what do you think he will do? I know what I would do: I would go postal

Liberal !

[Husar]

It wouldn't work well. The successful crime fighting strategy that has been employed in the today most peaceful of the European countries works to improve the self-confidence of the small-time criminals and get them out of crime
You mean they get so self-confident that they don't even fear police or prison anymore and tell right away what they've done again.


Public violence and executions to fight crime will only increase the power and abuse thereof among judges, ministers and other influential people, cause fear of authorities and undermine democracy, and bring us back to the Dark ages.
I didn't know the dark ages extended well into the renaissance...
And the first part is just a theory, our justice system today is a bit different than it was before and we're just changing the punishment, not the way you get there.


Not to mention that it would increase crime tremendously. If a broken down, poor overtaxed man does shoplifting to get food for the day gets public beating for it, what do you think he will do? I know what I would do: I would go postal
And then you'd be shot...
And sane people will then realize that staying away from crime is their best option. To support that a bit, we might not want to overtax people to the point where they cannot even afford food anymore, I also didn't think that this was the case today.

[AntiochusIII]

Oh, be a man. We all know Jean Valjean was in jail for bloody 18 years and look how well he turned out.

Lashing is for wimps. Do it the French way; that is, the French way for regicide criminals.

[CountArach]

What? Surrender to a foreign invader?

[AntiochusIII]

What? Surrender to a foreign invader?You gotta read up on the way the French treat regicide criminals. ~;)

Let's just say it involve tortures, hot pincers, burning sulfur, molten wax, lead, oil, and horses riding "outward" for dismemberment.

Real men, them French. :yes:

[Rodion Romanovich]

You mean they get so self-confident that they don't even fear police or prison anymore and tell right away what they've done again.

I don't know what planet you're from, but the small-time criminals over here don't go criminals because they feel well. They do it because they're hopeless cases that are excluded from society and community. The only criminals that go criminals because of confidence, are CEOs plundering companies and screwing shares buyers, but they tend to get away even in harsh punishment systems: in fact in those systems they are the ones handing out lashes to those who want their money back.



And then you'd be shot...

I would take care of that myself afterwards, in such a rotten system. And I'd feel like a martyr.



And sane people will then realize that staying away from crime is their best option.

Well, statistics show that plenty of people tend to get incredibly "insane" when violence/murder as a punishment is used.

If you want corporal punishment in your legal system, why don't you apply for citizenship in Saudi Arabia or Iran?

[doc_bean]

Oh, be a man. We all know Jean Valjean was in jail for bloody 18 years and look how well he turned out.

Lashing is for wimps. Do it the French way; that is, the French way for regicide criminals.

I read a description of French in the mid 20th century (it was in the book 'catch me if you can', not that i recommend it or the movie), apparently, there was no window, the place wasn't high enough to stand up straight, you got a bucket that wasn't (or rarely) changed, and food at irregular times so you couldn't tell the time of day or which day it was.

The good old days !

[AntiochusIII]

(it was in the book 'catch me if you can', not that i recommend it or the movie)Why not? I liked the movie quite a lot. Not the deepest thing ever created but highly entertaining with a suave I don't usually associate with Spielberg.

[doc_bean]

Why not? I liked the movie quite a lot. Not the deepest thing ever created but highly entertaining with a suave I don't usually associate with Spielberg.

I'm not saying it's bad, I just wouldn't recommend it, it was pretty average imo, of course, for a Spielberg movie that might be a compliment these days :laugh4:

[Husar]

If you want corporal punishment in your legal system, why don't you apply for citizenship in Saudi Arabia or Iran?
Just yesterday we talked in the chat about how the UAE have harsh punishments and a very low crime rate. I think they're a better example than Saudi Arabia or Iran. Oh and thir population is 81% foreigners so it can't be all that bad there.
And why am I always wanted to leave here? That would be just avoiding the problems, I prefer to stay and change my country for the better.


The only criminals that go criminals because of confidence, are CEOs plundering companies and screwing shares buyers, but they tend to get away even in harsh punishment systems: in fact in those systems they are the ones handing out lashes to those who want their money back.
They don't get away often in the US, but they do get away here in Germany, but that's not a question of punishment, it's a question of who is being charged with what. Otherwise you'd have to say imprisoning thieves is unfair because currently those bosses aren't imprisoned either.:dizzy2:


I don't know what planet you're from
Earth, and you?

[HoreTore]

Why limit ourselves to crimes? I say we should have it like some people want to do to kids - corporal punishment for bad morals/behavior! For example:

- Drinking beer? 20 lashes!
- Sex outside marriage? 50 lashes!
- Missed church? 30 lashes!
- Talked when not spoken to? 20 lashes!

And some special ones for the women:

- Dinner not on the table when the husband comes home? 40 lashes!
- Dust in the house? 30 lashes!
- Trying to have a life outside the house? 100 lashes!

I can't see any other way to get our society to progress. I see these things as the only way to uphold freedom. Anyone disagreeing is a freedomhating commieterrorist.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Just yesterday we talked in the chat about how the UAE have harsh punishments and a very low crime rate. I think they're a better example than Saudi Arabia or Iran. Oh and thir population is 81% foreigners so it can't be all that bad there.
And why am I always wanted to leave here? That would be just avoiding the problems, I prefer to stay and change my country for the better.


They don't get away often in the US, but they do get away here in Germany, but that's not a question of punishment, it's a question of who is being charged with what. Otherwise you'd have to say imprisoning thieves is unfair because currently those bosses aren't imprisoned either.:dizzy2:


Earth, and you?
Would you mind saying that into a video camera, and sending the tape to me? Such a tape could be the strongest anti-EU propaganda material I could ever come across!

[Soulforged]

Why limit ourselves to crimes? I say we should have it like some people want to do to kids - corporal punishment for bad morals/behavior! For example:

- Drinking beer? 20 lashes!
- Sex outside marriage? 50 lashes!
- Missed church? 30 lashes!
- Talked when not spoken to? 20 lashes!

And some special ones for the women:

- Dinner not on the table when the husband comes home? 40 lashes!
- Dust in the house? 30 lashes!
- Trying to have a life outside the house? 100 lashes!

I can't see any other way to get our society to progress. I see these things as the only way to uphold freedom. Anyone disagreeing is a freedomhating commieterrorist.
Weren't you that guy abogating for universal human rights?:inquisitive:

[HoreTore]

Weren't you that guy abogating for universal human rights?:inquisitive:

Scrap that, bring back the good old genesis.

[Husar]

Why limit ourselves to crimes? I say we should have it like some people want to do to kids - corporal punishment for bad morals/behavior! For example:

- Drinking beer? 20 lashes!
- Sex outside marriage? 50 lashes!
- Missed church? 30 lashes!
- Talked when not spoken to? 20 lashes!

And some special ones for the women:

- Dinner not on the table when the husband comes home? 40 lashes!
- Dust in the house? 30 lashes!
- Trying to have a life outside the house? 100 lashes!

I can't see any other way to get our society to progress. I see these things as the only way to uphold freedom. Anyone disagreeing is a freedomhating commieterrorist.


Scrap that, bring back the good old genesis.

I disagree, can you still not see the difference between morals and law? ~;)
See, if you do not obey the law, you get 50 lashes, if you do not obey the morals, it's 50 stones!
You know, law = lashes:whip: , morals = stones...:tomato2:



Would you mind saying that into a video camera, and sending the tape to me? Such a tape could be the strongest anti-EU propaganda material I could ever come across!

As if I would provide you with anti-EU propaganda...:sweatdrop:

[CountArach]

Anyone disagreeing is a freedomhating commieterrorist.
We prefer Communorist. We believe in an equal amount of terrorism for all.

[rory_20_uk]

The reasoning against punishment is that all people would stop committing crimes if they got enough support. Any evidence to the contrary merely shows that we aren't giving them enough support: those who kick people to death as they are bored need a youth centre for example; stabbing old ladies shows that an increase in benefits is the way forward.

It is funny that how robbing criminals of their human dignity is unthinkable (by some); that the criminals did the same to others is apparently irrelevant.

To punish both the body and the wallet is not only cheap, but punishes both rich and poor. A businessman who happily gets a £100 parking fine would blanch at 15 lashes.

~:smoking:

[doc_bean]

While i agree that it's egalitarian, there is the issue that some people have a higher threshold for pain than others. Could we measure this threshold objectively so we could administer an equal amount of 'pain' to the criminals ? Now that would be equal justice !

[Husar]

Good point doc, I have a sensitive skin so the amount of lashes I get should obviously always be halved.:laugh4:
Then again, you wouldn't get lashes as long as you're not a criminal, no?
And I'm not sure about lashes for parking, parking in the wrong place is not criminal unless it puts other people in danger(parking in a firebrigade entrance way).
I think we could gevelop a system here and propose that to the EU so they can put that into the EU constitution.:sweatdrop: :laugh4:

[HoreTore]

I think we could gevelop a system here and propose that to the EU so they can put that into the EU constitution.:sweatdrop: :laugh4:

EU constitution? Never heard of it... Or did you mean the magnificent amending treaty you wont be allowed to vote on, since it's not a constitution and you'll have to trust Blair to do what's best for you?

[Husar]

There was a constitution before and I wasn't allowed to vote on it, I don't know what I have to do with Blair though, since I'm not british, as the big flag in my signature indicates.:laugh4:
Now since they'll push that amending treaty through anyway and noone can vote on it, it would obviously be best to have that corporal punishment included somehow to make sure the evil guys cannot vote against it. See? This is good news, not bad news.:2thumbsup:

I propose that for every lie made in the voting period a politician gets 200 lashes at the end of every term.:sweatdrop: :clown:

[doc_bean]

I propose that for every lie made in the voting period a politician gets 200 lashes at the end of every term.:sweatdrop: :clown:

I've been meaning to bring the topic of 'enhanced interviewing techniques' during interviews with politicians. Can i count on your support again ?

[Bijo]

Why not have a politician's head roll instead while you are at it?