Real life picture of RTW Cataphracts!!!

[Intranetusa]

Real life picture of RTW Cataphracts!!!

Real
https://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6038/ancient1pic3ql3.jpg

vs RTW
http://www.twcenter.net/pics/layout/clan/parthians.jpg (http://www.twcenter.net/pics/layout/clan/parthians.jpg)

[bovi]

Nevermind.

[Reverend Joe]

All righty. Can we see a real-life picture of an EB kataphract now?

[Thaatu]

Looks like a parade cataphract to me. Depends on what you call "real"...

[Pharnakes]

I have to admit that I can't actualy see what is so bad it.

[bovi]

The "real" picture does not have horse armour. I must confess I first thought he meant EB cataphracts, but I see now it's RTW. So the camel cataphracts could actually be such in the game, it's been so long since I played vanilla I can't even remember if they were there.

[Wolfman]

http://antika.avonet.cz/upload.cs/d/de56cc44_b_0_cataphract.jpg
EB cataphract.

http://www.itsadventuresouthwest.co.uk/main/en/images/activity_snaps/act_TANK.jpg
RTW cataphract

[HFox]

Lol

[mAIOR]

I think rtw catas are more like this:
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/elep_1.jpg
:)

[NeoSpartan]

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/parthians/images/parthian_cataphracts.jpg
EB cataphract.

http://www.itsadventuresouthwest.co.uk/main/en/images/activity_snaps/act_TANK.jpg
RTW cataphract

I don't get it...

[Wolfman]

Perfect mAIOR!

[Sakkura]

That city in the background doesn't look completely "real" to me.

[Wolfman]

It looks like a painting. It probably a stage

[Watchman]

Later on "cataphract" could also mean simply an armoured cavalryman, not necessarily on a barded horse. "Clibanarius" got equally vague pretty fast by what I know of it, although it usually signified heavier equipement.

Anyway, the problem with the vanilla RTW catas was that they were from something like very late Parthian or early Sassanid times, ie. nearly half a millenia out of date for RTW...

I'd peg the gear in the first pic of the OP to be essentially Migration Period or thereabouts chronology-wise; weren't helmets of that design popular around that time ?

[atheotes]

katatanks from RTW :dizzy2: :furious3: :help: :wall: What a nightmare!!!

[Imperator]

So what exactly is the point of this thread? To suggest RTW was secretly really accurate? I think not. Even if the cataphracts DID look like that (which I doubt, since that picture looks pretty fishy to me) we can agree they weren't bright purple and were NOT ancient Rohirrim.

[Pharnakes]

Were the cataphracts in vannila overpowered or something?

[Watchman]

I remember wiping out the two or so Parthia starts with by luring them into the pikes of those cruddy levy phalangites and then just repeatedly charging their derrieres with FamiCav (the early-campaign light model too), so not really. The bow-and-mace BI Clibas were way nastier.

[mAIOR]

I agree those guys were my eastern nightmare. I could take hords easilly (AS
really I don't know why they sent 8 stacks to my ambush in a row). RTW were strong but you could get rid of them easilly (I prefered Urban cohorts with cretan archers armies)... But, in the hands of a skilled player they were deadly!


Cheers...

[Krusader]

I've seen the RTW vanilla cataphract of a illustration done on Late Roman cataphracts in some triumph.

Ahh here it was:
http://img38.picoodle.com/img/img38/8/6/19/t_OspreyLateRm_7954b0e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img38&img=/8/6/19/f_OspreyLateRm_7954b0e.jpg)

[NeoSpartan]

....

Anyway, the problem with the vanilla RTW catas was that they were from something like very late Parthian or early Sassanid times, ie. nearly half a millenia out of date for RTW...
....

Now that explains it....

[Beefy187]

i remember i used to have like 2 stacks of pure cataphract army as seleucids

smashed soo many Scipii armies in Africa

[russia almighty]

Wolf your link leads directly to the main website , not the actual page.

[Wolfman]

strange. It was working before. I'll see what I can do.

Edit: Try it now. The address changed thats why the link wasn't working

[russia almighty]

Speaking of vanilla katatank stories I have steam rolled even phalanx pikemen with a head on charge .

[Lowenklee]

Well, ignoring the issue of it's accuracy, it's a beautiful picture. What city is that in the backround, is this from a film?

[Reverend Joe]

Why the hell would you even bother putting someone that heavily armored on a completely unarmored horse?

"Well, I could aim for the freakin' tank, or I could aim for the soft pile of unarmored flesh he's riding on... Hmm, decisions, decisions..." :wall:

[Wolfman]

I haven't heard it put any better Reverend Gonzo ( chuckles )

[antiochus epiphanes]

http://www.itsadventuresouthwest.co.uk/main/en/images/activity_snaps/act_TANK.jpg
RTW cataphract
thats a british abbot self propelled howitzer. not exactly a tank.it mounts a 105mm howitzer.
and what mAIOR posted is a german elephant tank destroyer.



















sorry im a tankophile:clown:

[Wolfman]

I'm thinking of changing it from that to mAIOR posted. A panzer. And get away from me you pervert:clown:

[NeoSpartan]

thats a british abbot self propelled howitzer. not exactly a tank.it mounts a 105mm howitzer.
and what mAIOR posted is a german elephant tank destroyer.



















sorry im a tankophile:clown:

HEY!! there ain't nothing wrong with being a tankophile :yes:

I knew the 1st pic was some type of artillery but didn't know which one, I though of the Paladin but it didn't look like it. The second I knew it was German from WWII, but was undecided in between an anti-tank or tank, but defenitely NOT artillery.

so... THANKS FOR THE INFO antiochus epiphanes!!!!!!!! :2thumbsup: You have cleared my doubts.

[Watchman]

Why the hell would you even bother putting someone that heavily armored on a completely unarmored horse?Why did most armoured cavalry throughout history ride completely unarmoured horses, and do quite well ? :dizzy2:

[bovi]

Seems to me you would either want to have light armour for mobility or heavy armour all over for extreme protection and punch.

My guess would be that with limited funds, you rather wanted yourself to survive than your horse. You can also still fight on foot if your horse dies unless you get caught under. Watchman, would you like to answer your own question, please?

[Watchman]

Far as I know, it's largely because horses are big animals and can be surprisingly difficult to take down - certainly rather more so than humans. The beasts have been recorded making spirited attempts at running even after having one leg taken off by a cannonball. Also one gets the impression that for one reason or another the focus of enemy attacks was normally the rider - dunno why really. Never been in a cavalry fight myself so I don't know the specific tactical dynamics involved. Aiming specifically at the horse was for one reason or another apparently somewhat unusual (not counting of course infantry spearmen "setting" to receive a charge - they normally put their spear-points on the level of the animals' chest). My guess would be partly the sheer difficulty of actually inflicting serious injury on a big well-muscles animal with its rider interfering at every opportunity; certainly one would expect armour for at least the rather exposed head and neck of the horse to have very soon appeared in some form, even very light, in near-universal use among shock cavalry if the beasts were vulnerable that way.

This manifestly failed to happen though, and while horse barding was certainly quite useful in many ways (albeit problematic in others) it obviously was in no way necessary for stellarly effective cavalry action.

[Pharnakes]

On the other hand, incidents like the morning of the battle of balaclava, when Cambell and was it 200 highlanders held off 2000 heavy russian horse by firing at the horses, and creating a "wall of death" which the horses behind would trip over...

[mAIOR]

Well, I decided to post the Ferdinand tank destroyer because it's 200mm armor on the front (RTW catraphact heavy armor) and the 88mm L71 main gun (RTW catraphact attack value)...



Cheers...

[The Persian Cataphract]

Well, ignoring the issue of it's accuracy, it's a beautiful picture. What city is that in the backround, is this from a film?

This is a promotional picture of Roger Koupelian's "The Fugitive prince", of a Sassanid cavalry with a reconstructed Ctesiphon in the background. The documentary was supposed to be filmed in New Zealand. The project, at least publically, hasn't been updated for years.

have a look here:
http://www.invaderdigital.com (http://www.invaderdigital.com/#)

http://www.fugitivestudios.com/fugitive_trailer.html

[Watchman]

On the other hand, incidents like the morning of the battle of balaclava, when Cambell and was it 200 highlanders held off 2000 heavy russian horse by firing at the horses, and creating a "wall of death" which the horses behind would trip over...Horses, being large and squishy and rather incapable of using shields and weapons to ward them off, always had bit of a problem with incoming missiles (guns have the added factor of major psychological impact). Hardly a coincidence the first horse-armours turned up on the bow-saturaded steppe and among the bow-toting chariot warriors of Middle East, no ?

But I figured the main question concerned hand-to-hand fighting. Anyway, it wasn't before the advent of massed infantry musketry that stopping a heavy cavalry charge by "weight of fire" alone was really viable (and even then there had damn better be pikes or bayonets for backup) - it was sometimes managed with bows, but that was always an exceptional achievement and more a testament to the stellar quality of archers involved than anything else. Against truly well-armoured cavalry you could usually pretty much forget about even trying, and instead hope to pester them enough their squadron lost cohesion.

[Intranetusa]

^ I thought the reason they didn't attack horses was because they either wanted to capture the horse for personal use or didn't want to kill the animal.
???

[Watchman]

That may have been a consideration in some times and places, but I rather suspect it wasn't anything to bet the farm on.

[blank]

I want a real life picture of the flaming pigs