TinCow
06-19-2007, 20:17
Spin-off discussion from the Fallout 3 thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1584092&postcount=199). Posted here to prevent that one from going off-topic.
Don't even get me started on the whole "Why consoles are partially to blame for the dumbing down of gaming"...
Gentlemen, start your engines!
I agree with your statement simply because you said "partially." Consoles are good for short-term gaming. Yes, their rise in popularity has increased the focus of the market on that kind of gaming, but at the same time, consoles haven't actually decreased the number of PC gamers. Consoles are actually single-handedly responsible for turning video games into an acceptable pastime for adults. Without console popularity, the video games industry would be far poorer.
While we are currently experiencing a decrease in game quality as a result, many of those console gamers will move over to PCs and/or even begin demanding more 'serious' games for the console systems themselves. In the long-run, there will probably be much heavier investment in 'smart' PC games as a result.
Pretty much all you need these days is a large chested female brandishing a gun and a sword, making a messy headshot on critter A while simultaneously decapitating critter B in some action-packed setting, swearing up a storm while doing so, with huge explosions in the background.
...
Exactly, dead on. The all encompassing absolute bottom line, profit. There was an editorial bit written not too long ago about the general state of gaming today, and how publishers will generally strive to maximize sales, and will 'dumb down'/simplify/whatever you want to call it to their games in order to try to reach the largest number of buyers. It made complete sense to me, I mean look at the market for REAL simulation games and even RPGs right now, it's pretty thin to almost non-existent. Heck look at what CA is doing with the TW series... The gist of the article was that despite this overall trend, there are still good numbers of gamers in all respective genres that would make putting together a 'niche' game a very viable prospect financially. The obvious problem is that while it would sell, it wouldn't sell say as good as Madden 2k8 or whatever, and hence why the Execs/Marketing types would do their utmost to force the product back into that generic Let's Try To Please Everyone role. Again it all makes sense to me, it'd be real nice to see someone take that to heart and take the plunge. Perhaps it's just me being obstinate and refusing to believe/accept that real RPG players and flight sim fanatics are a dying breed. :embarassed:
I think you're being a bit pessimistic here. I understand what you're saying and I definitely agree that we're seeing an upswing in the number of mega-corp video game developers who are pumping out simplified sequels rather than original content. I'm not convinced that this is a linear trend though. I've been gaming pretty much constantly from the early 80s until today, with 17-18 years of that exclusively on the PC. I've seen a lot of genres come and go and a lot of companies make it big and go bust. The only thing that seems to me to be consistent is the flux.
Startup companies emerge with fresh, new ideas and produce low-cost, quality games. They grow successful, increase in size, increase in ambition. Eventually the core team that had the 'vision' loses control as the company grows larger and less centralized. Most developers are gobbled up by a major publisher which uses them to pump out proven money-makers. Eventually the franchise is over-exploited or deteriorates in quality. The developer dissolves, and sometimes even the mega-publisher becomes defunct. (oh, Sierra, how I hate thee...)
The same boom and bust seems to happen to entire genres of gaming as well. Adventure games are the most prominent fatality in this department, but you have also pointed out the decrease in flight sims and classic style RPGs. I would toss turn-based strategy games and puzzle games into that pile as well. However, I don't think that any of these genres has permanently died. Just like with Hollywood and fashion, things disappear for a while and then suddenly burst on the market again.
I've seen plenty of genres nose-dive and then recover. DND games are the classic example. The glory days of the SSI Gold Box games sucked the DND name for all it was worth until people tired of them completely. After that developers wouldn't touch the DND name with a 10 foot stick for many years. Then Bioware brought the DND name back in a big way and once again it's a hot commodity, some good, some bad. You may dislike stuff like NWN2, but without the 'resurgence' you would never have gotten Planescape. Yet Planescape came along many years after people already thought the DND days were long gone.
Flight sims, which you previously mentioned, have come and gone from popularity almost more than anything else. They were some of the first games ever made for computers, but other than the consistent Microsoft offering, they were heavily neglected in the 1980s. When the 90s rolled around, advances in hardware spurred a huge number of combat flight sims which were then spun off into space flight sims. They were so popular that a joystick was considered an essential PC peripheral and many people even shelled out for yokes. After a good 10 year run, the gaming companies simply ran out of new ideas and the gamers were tired of the same old thing over and over again. Right now flight sims are a minor genre, but they are certainly not dead. I fully expect them to come back as a major genre once the public has had a nice, long break from them.
Even individual titles can recover after a decrease in quality. The Civilization series had serious problems after Civ 2, when the IP rights were split between three companies. Even though very decent SMAC was the 'real' successor, the market was flooded with mimics and even after the license was re-unified, Civ 3 generally disappointed. Firaxis reversed course though and pulled the Civ series out of the tailspin with Civ 4, surprising most players and critics alike. The same thing happened to Heroes of Might and Magic to a great extent.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think anything truly dies in the games industry. Genres simply become zombies, stalking the dusty CD racks of gamers until a new 'mad scientist' developer picks it up and reanimates it. It's sad to see our favorite titles and genres when they fade, but they will eventually be back and usually more glorious than ever.
Don't even get me started on the whole "Why consoles are partially to blame for the dumbing down of gaming"...
Gentlemen, start your engines!
I agree with your statement simply because you said "partially." Consoles are good for short-term gaming. Yes, their rise in popularity has increased the focus of the market on that kind of gaming, but at the same time, consoles haven't actually decreased the number of PC gamers. Consoles are actually single-handedly responsible for turning video games into an acceptable pastime for adults. Without console popularity, the video games industry would be far poorer.
While we are currently experiencing a decrease in game quality as a result, many of those console gamers will move over to PCs and/or even begin demanding more 'serious' games for the console systems themselves. In the long-run, there will probably be much heavier investment in 'smart' PC games as a result.
Pretty much all you need these days is a large chested female brandishing a gun and a sword, making a messy headshot on critter A while simultaneously decapitating critter B in some action-packed setting, swearing up a storm while doing so, with huge explosions in the background.
...
Exactly, dead on. The all encompassing absolute bottom line, profit. There was an editorial bit written not too long ago about the general state of gaming today, and how publishers will generally strive to maximize sales, and will 'dumb down'/simplify/whatever you want to call it to their games in order to try to reach the largest number of buyers. It made complete sense to me, I mean look at the market for REAL simulation games and even RPGs right now, it's pretty thin to almost non-existent. Heck look at what CA is doing with the TW series... The gist of the article was that despite this overall trend, there are still good numbers of gamers in all respective genres that would make putting together a 'niche' game a very viable prospect financially. The obvious problem is that while it would sell, it wouldn't sell say as good as Madden 2k8 or whatever, and hence why the Execs/Marketing types would do their utmost to force the product back into that generic Let's Try To Please Everyone role. Again it all makes sense to me, it'd be real nice to see someone take that to heart and take the plunge. Perhaps it's just me being obstinate and refusing to believe/accept that real RPG players and flight sim fanatics are a dying breed. :embarassed:
I think you're being a bit pessimistic here. I understand what you're saying and I definitely agree that we're seeing an upswing in the number of mega-corp video game developers who are pumping out simplified sequels rather than original content. I'm not convinced that this is a linear trend though. I've been gaming pretty much constantly from the early 80s until today, with 17-18 years of that exclusively on the PC. I've seen a lot of genres come and go and a lot of companies make it big and go bust. The only thing that seems to me to be consistent is the flux.
Startup companies emerge with fresh, new ideas and produce low-cost, quality games. They grow successful, increase in size, increase in ambition. Eventually the core team that had the 'vision' loses control as the company grows larger and less centralized. Most developers are gobbled up by a major publisher which uses them to pump out proven money-makers. Eventually the franchise is over-exploited or deteriorates in quality. The developer dissolves, and sometimes even the mega-publisher becomes defunct. (oh, Sierra, how I hate thee...)
The same boom and bust seems to happen to entire genres of gaming as well. Adventure games are the most prominent fatality in this department, but you have also pointed out the decrease in flight sims and classic style RPGs. I would toss turn-based strategy games and puzzle games into that pile as well. However, I don't think that any of these genres has permanently died. Just like with Hollywood and fashion, things disappear for a while and then suddenly burst on the market again.
I've seen plenty of genres nose-dive and then recover. DND games are the classic example. The glory days of the SSI Gold Box games sucked the DND name for all it was worth until people tired of them completely. After that developers wouldn't touch the DND name with a 10 foot stick for many years. Then Bioware brought the DND name back in a big way and once again it's a hot commodity, some good, some bad. You may dislike stuff like NWN2, but without the 'resurgence' you would never have gotten Planescape. Yet Planescape came along many years after people already thought the DND days were long gone.
Flight sims, which you previously mentioned, have come and gone from popularity almost more than anything else. They were some of the first games ever made for computers, but other than the consistent Microsoft offering, they were heavily neglected in the 1980s. When the 90s rolled around, advances in hardware spurred a huge number of combat flight sims which were then spun off into space flight sims. They were so popular that a joystick was considered an essential PC peripheral and many people even shelled out for yokes. After a good 10 year run, the gaming companies simply ran out of new ideas and the gamers were tired of the same old thing over and over again. Right now flight sims are a minor genre, but they are certainly not dead. I fully expect them to come back as a major genre once the public has had a nice, long break from them.
Even individual titles can recover after a decrease in quality. The Civilization series had serious problems after Civ 2, when the IP rights were split between three companies. Even though very decent SMAC was the 'real' successor, the market was flooded with mimics and even after the license was re-unified, Civ 3 generally disappointed. Firaxis reversed course though and pulled the Civ series out of the tailspin with Civ 4, surprising most players and critics alike. The same thing happened to Heroes of Might and Magic to a great extent.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think anything truly dies in the games industry. Genres simply become zombies, stalking the dusty CD racks of gamers until a new 'mad scientist' developer picks it up and reanimates it. It's sad to see our favorite titles and genres when they fade, but they will eventually be back and usually more glorious than ever.