Unique Unit! Who gets what?

[Emp. Conralius]

I've been wondering what MTW has to present as far as units unique to a faction.

[vyanvotts]

english = longbowmen!

[theforce]

There must be special units for all factions but some factions are gonna excel in the navy etc so things can vary.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[vyanvotts]

the english will excel in the navy area

[Emp. Conralius]

Really this topic is for faction's uniqaue units we dont know!

[vyanvotts]

then if we dont know them how will we know them to write them? in a ideal world we can only write the ones we know.? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Emp. Conralius]

vyanvotts, we are here to humor each other with guesses as to what the faction's unique units may be! And to discuss why or why not these humorments may be true. Not to just say things we already know.

[vyanvotts]

Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
Really this topic is for faction's uniqaue units we dont know![/QUOTE]

the word "know" in there must have confused me then

[Emp. Conralius]

ok...but it said "don't know." No big deal

[Papewaio]

We actually do know by looking in the unit files for instance:
Ruler ID troop advantage
Label
Some Leaders are given discounts on various troops or buildings.

Region ID troop advantage
Label or Integer
Some regions provide discounts on troops or buildings.

Faction Association
Labels
Unit availability to factions; either ALL_FACTIONS or FACTION_ONE, FACTION_TWO, etc; this has been treated as a second level filter and REQUIRES the building filter to be checked for an accurate list of who can raise what (such as might be needed for custom battles!)

Looking at this Wales has a discount on Longbows and England is the only faction that can buy them.

Some ships can are cheaper in some zones and to some factions;

Dhow: TUNISIA(cheaper province), Factions; ALMOHAD, EGYPTIAN, TURKISH, GOLDEN_HORDE

Dromon: Factions; BYZANTINE, ITALIAN, PAPIST, SICILIAN
Longboat: DANISH (faction gets a discount),DENMARK (province gets a discount)Factions; DANISH, NOVGOROD

etc

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

English = longbow + BILLMEN (Why does everyone forget the billmen - they are great!)

Ireland = kerns and gallowglass
Scotland = highland clansmen
Danes = vikings
Byzants = Trebizond archers (plus better one with trebizond the province)
Oh danes also get longboats to start with - really nasty as they get produced quickly and arent at all bad in anything but deep sea areas... which reminds me that the egyptians (or is it almohads) get the first deep sea ships (so they can bypass and invade via ireland before you can defend in the north sea..hmm)
Swiss get swiss-armoured-pikement (of course)
Germans - gothic knights
blimey - lots and lots really - i forget who, what and where.. turcomon horse archers, various byzants (Oh byzantium infantry are superb btw) - desert archers (egypt) - saharan cavalry (great light horse archers in the hot areas - nothing gets em and they can fight a bit also).. nubian spearmen, bulgarian bandits (bulgarian province speciality only i think)


bascially wait for the game - in any one full campaign its unlikel you'll see em all so dont worry about having to know each and everyone intimately.

[Emp. Conralius]

Darkmoor, you got your s**t together, don't you?

[Emp. Conralius]

I agree Papewaoi, the Billmen are great, it's just their name throws you off.

[Emp. Conralius]

I don't think the Gothic Knights are exclusive to the HRE/Germans, Imyself battled a French horde of Gothic Knights. As a matter of fact, they smashed right through my chain of Feaudal Men-At-Arms!

[Dark Phoenix]

Arent the UU linked to provinces that you control? Say if you control Wales you get Longbowman.

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"DP is correct" - Shiro

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We may have years, we may have hours,
but sooner or later, we push up flowers

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Not always "specifically" DP.

eg Longbows. The ENglish faction get to build these "anywhere" they have the appropriate facilities (master bowyer or is it bowyer's guild?), however, Welsh longbowmen are cheaper to build and better.

So if you build longbow facilities in wales you get cheaper better longbows - but that wont stop the english producing longbows in, say, Rhodes if you build the facilities.

On the other hand if you capture the archery facilities in Constantinople you will NOT get to produce Trebizond Archers (the byzantine speciality archer) - but if yo capture Trebizond (the province) you can in THAT province ONLY.

And, alternatively, some units can only ever be produced in one province no matter what you build or who you are (Though you may be able to pick some up as mercenaries).

[Nelson]

That all sounds excellent Darkmoor.

[Hirosito]

it really does but it's not bulgarian bandits it's bulgarian brigands

[theforce]

Hmmm longbows sound fearsom man. I don't wanna know what happens when they are placed correctly and the enemy army has 3 or 4 of these units.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

Lets not forget about the Billmen! DarkMoor, how do the Byzantine Infantry and Kataphratoi turn out?

[Mithrandir]

uhm.. they run out of arrows and get slain ?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

I'm definately going to like the longbwmen http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

(closest to an Elf in the game...)

[Stephen Hummell]

gendarmes, French unique unit. What are they?

[theforce]

The special units of the Byzantines will be those archers he refered to and there should be a unit with (ugro pur) or liquid fire as u say in English http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
That stopped dead many attempts to storm the citie's walls and it was also used by their navy.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

theforce, i think your refering to Trebezond Archers. Mithandir, Billmen aren't archers! They're a form of a spear unit, I've used them before.

[Emp. Conralius]

Any guesses to what Genarms are?

[Emp. Conralius]

Gendarmes are high-quality militia cavalry, raised in the growing towns. They often have superb equipment and, unlike most part-time soldiers, are rather disciplined. The Gendarmes lack the dashing bravery and valour of real knights. Wealthy French provinces can excel at producing Gendarmes, thanks to their growing regional pride."}

[Stephen Hummell]

What the hell are the Russian, Polish and italian unique unit.

[theforce]

Russian special unit is "crazy Ivan" These guys drink too much vodka and rush with no fear! :P

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

lol thfroce! The Russians will probably have a form of peasent cavalry calld the Cossacks. Although they are peasents, they're superb horsemen. Aww...who cares about Poland, I don't know why they're in the game. They should be non-playable, and Hungary should be playable! Italians will probably get some navy stuff, and a lot of technilogically andvnced stuff like Genoese Crossbows.

[Emp. Conralius]

I have nothin against Poland, it's just that the idea of them being a major faction a Medieval war game ususally brings up the question of: "What the hell did they do?" Thats all.

[Prodigy]

Emp. Conralius

Russian unique unit is Boyar (nobility). Cossaks did not exist yet.

I have been going through demo files and found out that yes Novgorod and "russia" will have the same banner: light blue with yellow double-headed eagle.

I found that yes Templars and Hospitallers are only availible to Catholic fraction. And the only way for the king of non-Catholic fraction to obtaine is to have a Catholic rebelion (civil war) and join that side. Keep in mind that certain province or country will have a certain amount of each religion in it.

I also found out that the most expensive land units will be Gothic Khight and Janissary Heavy Infantry, and most expensive navy units will be Carrak (Aragonese) and Gungalley. But expensive doesnt mean they will be the best units around. However, judging from the stats the best unit in the comparison with their price will be Late Royal Khights and Late Royal Ghulam khights. The cheapest land unit will be as expected Peasants, navy unit --- Dhow (Tunisian). and yes Italians will have many navy advantages.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

Prodigy does his homework. But Cossakcs did exist around the mid-1400's.

[Prodigy]

I looked again at the demo and found one mistalke in my previous statement: the most expensive land unit is Lancer (1100 Flourins for 40 Lancers). And it pays. They have great attack, melee, defense and armour. The rest.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

I think the best Factions are England, Byzantium, and Turks. England has a pretty defendable homeland and have a well army. As do the Byzantines, who start off with a decent amount of land as well as an influence bonus and in Anotolia, can buy mercenaries at a cheaper price. Whereas the Turks get bonuses on their siege cannons and have lots of powerful infantry.

[Prodigy]

Also Bysantines have advantages (like Imagawa Clan) in spying and assasination.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Prodigy]

Emp. Conralius

The earliest document records of Cossacks date from 1490 when they fought in campaigns against the Turks and successfully conquered the Turkish fortress of Ochakov.
During the years 1534-49, the renowned Prince Dmitri Veshnevetskiy built a fortress on the island of Khortitsa where he placed a Cossack garrison that initiated the famous Zaporizhzhia Sitch. This eventually became known the world over as the Cossack Repudlic.


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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Prodigy]

And the game ends in 1453. So......

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Bohemond]

Quote Originally posted by Darkmoor_Dragon:
On the other hand if you capture the archery facilities in Constantinople you will NOT get to produce Trebizond Archers (the byzantine speciality archer) - but if yo capture Trebizond (the province) you can in THAT province ONLY.
[/QUOTE]

Darkmoor, is it confirmed that you can really build other factions units under these conditions? That would be great! It might even become a strategic option to capture a certain province when you are drooling for a special unit.

To Emp_Conradius : Poland was in fact one of the major Christian Nations of the Middle Ages. They christianized many other eastern nations like Lithuania, and Polish troops were the decisive factor in the defeat of the Turks during the famous siege of Vienna (don't know the exact year, but around 1680). I think it is 100% correct that they were included!!

[Hirosito]

i agree poland was very large as well ( much bigger than nowadays) and was always a major player in catholic terms. the current pope is polish

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Bohemond]

Are there no Poles around?
(I had expected an outcry.)

[Zacharat Hennataga]

im just guessing, but from what i know about history, id imagine that they would look something like this
English=Yeomen(Longbowmen)
French=Gendarmes(Nobles)
Holy Roman Empire=Landsknechts(HeavyInfantry)
Spain=Reiters(Conquestadors)
Papal States=Swiss Guardsmen
Poland=Pancernis
Russia=Druzyniks(Heavy Cavalry)
Byzantium=Klibanophoros or Varangian Guards
Turkey=Janissaries
Egypt=Mamelukes
Denmark=Vikings
Scots=Highlanders
Hungary=Hussars
Persia=War Elephants
Almohad=Turcomans

[Zacharat Hennataga]

and god knows what else for the who knows how many other "rebel" factions

[Dark Phoenix]

Well Special K is on sabatical otherwise he would of used his "special" influence and got him banned. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"DP is correct" - Shiro

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We may have years, we may have hours,
but sooner or later, we push up flowers

[Emp. Conralius]

I agree, but Poland isn't exactly the first faction you're going to pick. Hungary should be a playable faction more so than the Poles. I tink CA had to make something fill the void of eastern Europe. No doubt they were a major power, but come on!

[Emp. Conralius]

I know we discussed this earlier, but who gets the Huscarl unit? Wasn't it the Danes? AOE2's inaccuracy led me off!

[Mithrandir]

Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
theforce, i think your refering to Trebezond Archers. Mithandir, Billmen aren't archers! They're a form of a spear unit, I've used them before.[/QUOTE]

I wasnt replying to you, it was in response to the post above yours,about the longbowmen...

[Emp. Conralius]

Sorry man, no problem...

[Mithrandir]

no probs.

What special unit will the Netherlands get ?

They really should include this great *cough* *cough* country in the game...

well at least the Dutch navy was the best and strongest there was..at one point it was stronger then the British,Spanish and French navy combined..I'll have to look it up when (it didnt last long either http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif).

[Bohemond]

I think it was the 17th Century :-)

[Mithrandir]

I think so too, but I think that was the golden century for the whole of Europe..

anywayz I'll check it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Bohemond]

We're going a bit OT here but I also find this a very interesting period.
I believe books state that in the 17th century the Low Countries owned around 20.000 ships, more than all other seapowers together. Mostly traders, however, while England, France and Spain had a couple of huge battleships.

[LordTed]

I couldn't hype this up more if I had a brass band http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Emp. Conralius]

Are the Huscarls in the game? I believe they were supposed to be Danish. AOE2 messed me up good.

[theforce]

Also each faction might have it's own siege engines or defencive weapons.
By watching Joah of The Arch there were some things l have never seen before in a film.
First of all the castle wasn't that big but there were some awesome defences.
First of all there was the pit around the walls. Now there were some huge round things in the walls and l said wtf!! Now the British throwed huge balls that came down the holes and through that hole killing the entire line of French standing behind that.
Also those who managed to get to the walls faces some sort of spinning ball with spikes. There was some mechanism that spinned it really fast just above the walls!!!
Wicked stuff.
Also Byzantines shall have liquid fire and other nations other thinks.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

Ya mean Greek Fire?

[Emp. Conralius]

Philip IV of France, sorely in need of money, charged the Templars with heresy and immorality (1307). They were arrested and put on trial, and confessions were extracted by torture. Similar attacks were mounted against the order in Spain and England, and Pope Clement V, after initially opposing the trials, suppressed the Knights Templar by papal bull at the Council of Vienne in 1312. When the grand master, Jacques de Molay, and other leaders of the Templars retracted their forced confessions and declared their innocence and the innocence of the order, Philip had them burned at the stake in Paris on Mar. 18, 1314. In Germany the Templar were also widely accepted, but after the forming of the Teutonic Order,the Templar went on to decline. As far as Germay goes that is...See Prodigy the Templars were in Spain, England, France, and Germany.

[Emp. Conralius]

The German Templars were mainly based out of Regensburg.

[Prodigy]

Yes, there will be Huskarls. They are called "Housecarls". They will be Danish (or Norwegian, can't remember).


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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

In AOE2 Houscarls carried broad sword and a round shield. Is this innacurate, or will it aslo be in MTW?

[Prodigy]

I dont think AOE2 made a mistake, after all the game did not have Danish and Norwegian fractions, and Goth came from Scandinavian Penninsulla (Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark).

In the game Housecarle will be availible to Danish and Novgorod. Its home province is Norway. It is a shock unit but very weak defensively. Its skills remindes me of No-dachi but with the shield.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

Geese, I wish I could play the actual game like you guys! Prodigy, how do the Housecarls appear? Are they welldone?

[Emp. Conralius]

and I don't mean cooking...

[Prodigy]

I dont have the beta, but I know some who does. I have seen the game but from observers place. That "greedy jackass" doesn't let any one play. But I understand him totally.

And the information about Housecrle I found mostly in the demo file.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

thanx anyway!

[theforce]

Emp. Conralius the name of the invension in Greek was "ugro pur" which means liquid fire. It was invented by Kanilikos.


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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

ya, but I'm just saying it's more so known as Greek Fire.

[comish]

the polish were quite powerful in the days of gustavus adolphus (i thikn that was his name). they made the north sea a polish lake and ruled most of scandanavia. they also defeated russia a number of times during the reign of, damn i cant remember his name. unfortunately gustavus's heirs werent quite up to his standards and their empire disintegrated rather quickly. so they were quite the power in the late middle ages and early renaissance, perhaps the astute gamer can help them to a more permanent position of power

[Bohemond]

Poland ruler of Scandinavia? Please be a bit more precise this is absolutely new to me.

Or do you mean Gustavus Adolphus the Swedish King? (the one that died during the battle of Ingolstadt during the 30years-war)

[Emp. Conralius]

So your saying the Poles were basically like the Huns? After one great military ruler dies, like Attila, the dead monarch's heirs are weak and cause the empire to implode.

[Vanya]

Poland historically had the Winged Hussars. Too bad they are not in the game (I don't think).

I think Hessian Cavalry would be a nice inclusion. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Bohemond]

Quote Originally posted by Vanya:
I think Hessian Cavalry would be a nice inclusion. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]

Can you explain? Hessia is a small county in southern Germany.

[Emp. Conralius]

But the game has so many other types of cav. Basically, the Hessian cav. would just be a mix of Horse Archers and Hobilars.

[Kraxis]

I think I have to add something conserning the Housecarls.

They were Saxon, from Saxony in Germany. At those days it was larger and of course didn't have borders (I can just imagine the little boy living outside Saxony: "But I wan't to be a Housecarl!"). So while there might have been a few Danish Housecarls they were certainly not Danish on a whole.
Btw, didn't the AOE2 Huskarl carry a round shield and an AXE? Much like the Housecarls at Hastings.

Gathered from the files it seems the Housecarls will not be the No-Dachi equivalent unit of MTW. They will form closed ranks with their shields that few can break. Seems more Naginata-like to me.

The Goths are three seperate people: Ostrogoths and Visigoths (the guys that ruined Rome) and the Goths from Gothland an island off the Swedish coast.
The Goths in AOE2 were the remnants of the Ostrogoths (the Visigoths had become Italians and Spanish), living in the lands of the Angles and in Saxony.

[Hirosito]

i thought we were talking about music

[Emp. Conralius]

Kraxis,
The Houscarles from AOE2 had round shields and SWORDS. Though you're facts are somewhat accurate, the anes will be having the Houscarles in MTW. I say your facts are somewhat accurate because the Visigoths became the Spanish and Portugese, wheras the Ostrogoths became Italians.

[Bohemond]

I'm not absolutely sure about this but from a linguistic point of view Housecarles or Hauskarls should be available to all Germanic factions (Saxons (English), Normans, Danes, Germans etc.) House or Haus obviously means house while carl or Kerl stands for man or even bloke. The term implies that they were kinsmen that were always around (in the house).

[Emp. Conralius]

When I saw the unit descriptions, I only saw 1 Italian unique unit! What's with that?! Once I get the game I plan to beat it (at 1st) 3X. One Islamic Faction (Turks), one Western European Faction (England or Italy) and one Eastern European Faction (Byzantium).

[fubi]

HouseCarls were saxon warriors and the english used them to good effect at the battle of hastings
id forgotten wether or not they were the men who made a wall of shields or the men with a double-handed axe but from what ive seen in this thread id say they were the shield guys.
just Saxon troops in medium armour that would form a line with their round sheilds.
they were defensive units but i think they carried swords.

[Stephen Hummell]

AXES!!! The HOUSECARLS HAD BIG ASS AXES!!!

[Kraxis]

At Hasting they did both.
Forming a shieldwall while using big battleaxes, though not twohanders obviously.

Emp. yeah you are right.

[Emp. Conralius]

Housecarls are one of the units I'm excited to play as....thats all.

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

Quote Originally posted by Stephen Hummell:
AXES!!! The HOUSECARLS HAD BIG ASS AXES!!![/QUOTE]


Please don't shout you woke up my daughter!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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La vie est un don.