Three Questions for Darkmoor Dragon

[Father Jack]

Hi,

I've got three questions I'm hoping Darkmoor Dragon would be able to answer.

1. Can AI controlled countries 'cheat' when playing at Expert level ? In Shogun the AI factions were able to go into koku debt and build troops and buildings with koku they didn't actually have.

2. Will it be possible to have siege battles with human opponents over the internet ?

3. Will it be possible to control more than 16 units (including siege units) when besieging a castle ? I know that this subject has been raised by other forum members, but it would be great to have a definative answer. From what I have heard it seems 16 units (including siege units) is still going to be the maximum.

It seems strange that the developers won't take into account the fact that to assault a big stronghold, an army would have to be around three times bigger than the defenders. Without being able to have a full 16 regular units, it will make attacking an opponent (human or AI) who has 8+ units inside a well fortified castle, too difficult.

It would be great if siege units were classed differently to normal units and you got some additional seperate slots for them when besieging a castle.

Many thanks

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

1) No - they got rid of the need for the AI to cheat (apparently)

2) Yup - played some of these and they're good fun. with 4 players the second defender comes on as "reinforcements" to lift the seige - great fun.

3) 16 units maximum at anyone time yes, but the code for withdrawing and reinforcements is much better - so if you want to retire worn out units of used up artillery then its far better...

balancing on the MP side of this was ongoing at the time i was there... exactly "how" to balance that issue out being something they hadn't resolved at the time... but as we saw from laying - the defender has a big advantage, and one that varies depending on the map and castle type/size... so something "dynamic" is required.

[JRock]

Sometimes when play balance is tough to decide, the easiest solution is to allow the players to choose from a couple options. Having something in the setup screen that allows the players to select the maximum number of units for Attackers and Defenders would work. Sort of like how the koku selections in S:TW worked only also allow the players to limit the number of units as well.
That way not only can you make the siege easier or harder, it can also help balance players - if someone is new to the game, limit the other player to a couple less units to help balance the game a little until the new player gets a hang of the game.

Trust me, if there's one thing you can never have enough of, it's options for the players to determine for multiplayer games. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif


Darkmoor_Dragon: I'd be very interested to know if CA is aware of the siege units issue we've discussed here and at the official M:TW forum about the siege soldiers not being able to fill in at another siege weapon. Are they going to fix that, so when one team is out of ammo, they can go help another team that is undermanned and can't fire?

[Emp. Conralius]

Darkmoor, could you please describe everything about Constantinople? As far as the game goes that is. Does Byzantium crumble if it's conquered? Can you siege the city itself?

[theforce]

The Byzantium was in the heart of the empire. If they manage to get that then u are probably dead.
The city should be huged and very hard to get l think. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif


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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

Is this true Darkmoor?

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Byzantium is really no different to any other "castle/city" - none of which are rendered... its a very wealthy province mind you - very very with good trade routes, oh, and it starts off pretty well developed, i think its minimum size is as a citadel (or castle maybe).

JRock - re the seige stuff, yes they are aware - i asked them about it on friday - hoping to get an answer by next week.

[Emp. Conralius]

Ki dissaponited about Constan., but great news none the less Darkmoor! One question though: what about the Danish Housecarls? If you are familiar with them, could you give me a nice-sized description?

[Hirosito]

i didn't expect certain cities to be especially rendetred it would prolly be too much work. but i think that taking the capital of any country will be crippling to that nation

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Kraellin]

jrock,

you're absolutely right about options and multi games. the simplest way to adjust balance is thru koku/gold in the multi setup. the host would have the option to make this balanced or lopsided and lopsided by how much. you could also do it like you said, by limiting the number of units, but then the guy in the castle with 10k gold but only 8 units, let's say, has 8 very strong units, plus the castle. so, he's still going to be pretty strong.

best overall, of course, is to be able to limit both gold and numbers and even types of units. natuarally, as a player then, you'd better keep your eyes open for the guy that tries to slip in options that you werent expecting, but hey, that's the player's responsibility.

what i'm curious about in multi, as well as some of the other things mentioned, is can the defender, within the castle, have siege engines also and can he build castle fortifications during setup and how will that be done if it is possible.

oh, and could you ask them how water is being done now? water in the earlier tw's was pretty, um, underdeveloped in scope. would be hard to build a moat, for example. and that of course brings up drawbridges and portcullises. are they going to have those?

edit: oh, and one other thing i'm quite curious about for multi, are they going to allow for free for alls (ffa)? teams are fun, but would be great to have an ffa once in a while too with up to 8 players.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[This message has been edited by Kraellin (edited 07-07-2002).]

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

The defender will have access to *siege engine towers* a bit like the *archer towers* in the demo. As for motts, i think so but i'm not sure.

If Darkmoor reads this, i'm sure he can give us the right info, that is if he can be pulled away of the complete working Med TW he is playing with, ahem sorry, working with http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.

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La vie est un don.

[Emp. Conralius]

I wonder if the Houscarls will be heavily armored and resist (for the most part) missile fire. I liked the comment Prodigy made about how the Housecarls are like the No-Dachi from Shogun. Being very offensive shock troops, but do poorly defensivly.

[Wavesword]

The greek empire split up a bit after the Latins captured Constantinople in the 4th crusade, but they did eventually capture it back.

[Emp. Conralius]

yep, the Latin Empire of Constantinople started around the 11th century.

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Quote Originally posted by Sir Kuma of The Org:
The defender will have access to *siege engine towers* a bit like the *archer towers* in the demo. As for motts, i think so but i'm not sure.

If Darkmoor reads this, i'm sure he can give us the right info, that is if he can be pulled away of the complete working Med TW he is playing with, ahem sorry, working with http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.

[/QUOTE]

Whilst at CA we were playing 4 player seiges (2 attack, 2 defend) - bascically at that stage no balancing had been done on the maps or on the MP setup for that sort of MP game... so it was a good little test-session for CA also...

Then you only got to choose the map (and at the time if you didnt know the map name had a castle then you didnt even necessarily get a castle) - so it was very raw.

What was obvious was that:

a) there had to be some method of relating the castle type on the map to the amount of florins the defender got - a fortress with gun towers and every upgrade is a far bigger advantage than a Motte with no towers (and so one would presume the defender got less florins)

b) some system of choosing not just the map but the castle -type would be "ideal" but with the huge range/variation allready available would it be feasible.

c) should the castle-type (and its inherent advantages therein) also affect "defender2" - who comes on as reinforcements to "lift the seige" - or should they get the same florins as each of the two attackers?


Summary: What i really liked was the potential variation in the MP game because of all this... its not just a stand-up fight... does defender 1 also go for seige artillery in defence hoping that def2 gets there in time? Does he go for troops to keep any breaches defended?

its a lot more varied than STW MP that's for sure... and (heres a little tit-bit 4 ya) where there are MP competitions and the "winning battle will be recorded and hosted on the officials ites so that others can download and replay them" it should prove rather fun for us all to see "who's the best" at the (nother titbit) "multiple different types of MP games that will be available".

(evil aint I?)

PS: Bottom line "then" was: CA knew it needed balancing and exactly "how to do so" was one of the "topic de jour" (or summit like that).

PPS: as players you never get to control where the towers shoot - nope (well ya didn't then anyway - good thing is that towers dont run out of ammo though)

[vyanvotts]

maybe somones answered this already....but how would the attacker get around the motts? are they even in the game?

[MagyarKhans Cham]

think monsta will check these posters names... :o)

[JRock]

When you guys say "motte" "mott" etc, you mean "moat" right?

Anyway, I just hope CA gives the player as many chooseable and variable options as possible. It makes for more game longevity and variety and makes it easier to get a game how you want it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Stephen Hummell]

Emp. Con., Housecarls weild axes and were used by the saxons not danes which was a few years before and should not even be in the game. But if they are they will be shock troops.

[Kraellin]

darkmoor,

it sounds like CA may be trying to fix conditions again. please tell them NOT to. there is no need to fix the castle size to the amount of gold in the game or even on one side. just stick options in multi that allow US to fix these things; variable gold, variable units, variable castle sizes and so on.

also, what about my post about water in the game?

and we already know they're doing various game modes, except i havent seen anything about an ffa mode (free for all).

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[theforce]

Bah. Kraellin history is a powerful tool to learn from. U saw what happent with MI right?
The game got in a lack of a better word screewed up cause players and modders changed the stats. While u worked hard for the stat files l don't want fans messing around with stats.


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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

[Emp. Conralius]

Stephen Hummel what you said was true, ut in MTW the Housecarles are a unique unit of the Danes!

[Emp. Conralius]

That is true Hummel, but in MTW the Housecarles are a unique unit of the Danes. I was refering to the game, not history. But your right, it should be more accurate in that respect.

[Emp. Conralius]

sorry I posted my preivious posts 2X. the d**m flood system set me up!

[Father Jack]

Darkmoor,

Thanks a lot for the response - must be a real pain answering all these questions.

Just one more lot from me, and then I won't bother you again. You mentioned that the code for withdrawing and reinforcements is much better, so you can retire worn out units of used up artillery.

How is this possible when all siege units are non-moveable on the battlefield after they have been deployed ?

Also it has been mentioned that damage to walls get repaired automatically if an assault is not made by the attacking force on the turn that they did the damage. If siege units are non-moveable and wall damage gets repaired, how can you ever retire your siege weapons and bring on more men while the wall are down ?

I know I'm probably missing something obvious, but I can't see it.

Cheers

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

hehe yeah - obvious if you've played it - not so obvious if not ;-)

You "withdraw" the MEN, the seige engines stay put. Once the unit of "men" are off the map you can bring on new ones.

The improvements in reinforcements comes in 2 (3ish) aspects:

1) there is a Rally Flag you can place which tells reinforcements where to go to after they enter the map (useful as you dont then have to "Micromanage" them and if the battle moves on you can move the flag.

2) you can call in new units one by one, rather than en-mass or automajically

3) (damn cant remember nu 3 - oops)

[Puzz3D]

theforce,

You don't think online play in v1.00 is bad? That is Creative Assembly's stat. Everything after that is player made or player suggested changes. Players screwed up the game? Without the v1.02 patch online MI would be dead now. Attendance in the foyer was already dropping after the game had been out for only 3 months.

You don't want players to have choices. Maybe there should be only one map as well. Lets say a nice fair one: IRONING BOARD! Then you can have fun by yourself in the foyer. You want gameplay put into a straight jacket.

Your post is without a doubt the least informed one you have ever made, and throws your credibility into question.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Kraellin]

theforce,

you do remember how we/mi was before 1.02, right? every battle fought to the last man and super super ashi that couldnt be beat and mongol heavy cav that could walk over everything, and a bugged fatigue/run/walk on every unit...you do remember the original, yes?

i do understand about the potential for modding to screw things up. i also understand the potential for modding making things better (at least in our view).

and darkmoor, are you avoiding my questions or just not seeing them?

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Emp. Conralius]

I know how you feel Krealin...

[Emp. Conralius]

From a historical standpoint, the Knights Templar (my favorite Order) shouldn't be available in the late era. In the early 12th century their Grand Master Jaques de Molay was burned at he stake by the French king Phillip. As well as most of the head figure of the Order. Evidently, this crippled the Order and most turned to the Knights Hospitaler.

[Bohemond]

Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
In the early 12th century their Grand Master Jaques de Molay was burned at he stake by the French king Phillip.[/QUOTE]

True, but 1314 is the correct year.

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Quote Originally posted by Kraellin:
theforce,

and darkmoor, are you avoiding my questions or just not seeing them?

[/QUOTE]

Sorry Krae - just missed it.

No - there arent any water features other than the odd lake and river. (there weren't i should say - don't believe they had plans to add em either)

[i think its another one of those "that;d be nice - but does it make is a "seige sim" rather than an "assault game"? - my opinion/quetion there btw]

Ffa (as in LMS) and CTF, KOTH are all in. (I also enquired about "greasy pig" or "catch the pigeon" but i don't think they were too sure about my sanity at that point) ;-)

[Emp. Conralius]

Bohemond,
When you say 12th century, it means that your talking about the 1300's! Thats why we live in the 21st century, even though it's 2002.

[Prodigy]

Emp. Conralius,
You have got it wrong, 12th Century is 1100-1199, 1314 is 14th Century.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

Prodigy, then how are we livin in the 21st century if it's 2002?

[Stephen Hummell]

Emp.Con, 21st century started in 2000. just like 14th century is the in the 1300's!!!

Prodigy's right

[This message has been edited by Stephen Hummell (edited 07-09-2002).]

[Emp. Conralius]

Darkmoor, is the Golden Horde available in the Custom Battle?

[Emp. Conralius]

ohhhhhhh i see now Prodigy! I couldn't understand what you were saying at first. Thanx Hummel for clearin that up!

[Emp. Conralius]

but I was right about the 21st century stuff!

[Papewaio]

Almost correct Emperor, if you want to get truly technical about the Gregorian Calender the last year of a century ends in two zero's and a millennium ends in three zero's.

So the the last year of the 20th century is 2000 (thats why its called the 20th century).

The first year of the 21st century is logically then 2001. As is the first year of the third millennium.

Not many people understand that and very few recognise that the first year of the Gregorian calender is 1 AD and hence the first century ends at 100AD.

[Prodigy]

Calander or no calander, my real point was that Grand Master Jaques de Molay could not have died before he was born.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Emp. Conralius]

We know that Prodigy. I was the one who brought that up. It was ust that I messed up the whole 12th century stuff. And I did get that 21st century stuff right! Lets go back to the topic, and kill tis nonsense.

[Kraellin]

thanks darkmoor.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Prodigy]

Darkmoor,
How does plagues and Black Death work in the game? Do any other disasters resembel STW or are they totally different?

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

i really dont know - im not sure the effects of plague/bd are in the version ive got - the pop up comes from time to time but it doesnt seem to have any effect.

there are still earthquakes, famines and floods as in stw.

[Emp. Conralius]

from what I hear the Black Death has been confirmed.

[Stephen Hummell]

I believe the Turks will be the most powerful faction in the game. All around a good faction. All though the Mongols may kill them off. Anyway I believe MTW will be one of the best games of the year. Can't think of a question though. Oh well.

Long live the Hives.

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
from what I hear the Black Death has been confirmed.[/QUOTE]


er.. yup - just said it was "IN there" - just wasn't sure what it did if anything in the build i have.

Or do you mean a "case of black death has been confirmed"?

In which case get a long long way away from there!

[Emp. Conralius]

No Darkmoor, I was saying that the black death will be in the game, it has been confirmed. I don't know where you got all that other stuff from.

[Emp. Conralius]

The mongls are powerful, no doubt, but they are, by no means at all invincible. A good general with some descent forces could take down the Horde with no real problem. Though, I'de imagine on the battlefield, they are very tricky and very clever.

[JRock]

Quote Originally posted by Kraellin:
darkmoor,

it sounds like CA may be trying to fix conditions again. please tell them NOT to. there is no need to fix the castle size to the amount of gold in the game or even on one side. just stick options in multi that allow US to fix these things; variable gold, variable units, variable castle sizes and so on.[/QUOTE]


YES.

Also, Darkmoor - any word on if they will fix the siege troops so they can fill in the ranks at siege engines with not enough men left to fire?

[DrNo]

Darkmoor, from what I read the Plague/Black Death will reduce your population, and therefore the amount of money you get from a region.

Guess to check you would have to keep track of income per province and see if it goes down at any stage.

[Aelfred Magna]

Darkmoor, earlier in this string you were speaking of bodies of water . . . I'm just curious - will any units be able to ford shallow rivers, lakes, etc? or are they just there as obstacles, and must bridges be used to get across? Also, if the answer is "yes, they CAN be forded" do heavily armored troops such as Kataphraktoi receive any sort of penalty for doing so (I'd think that fully armored Knights with fully armored horses would find fording a river a bad, BAD thing to attempt.)

. . . just curious :-)

[Black Douglas I]

Darkmoor Dragon - How have you found the yearly turns??? How long would it take to march from Wessex to the holy land for example? Please don't say 20 years.

Cheers

[Black Douglas I]

Darkmoor Dragon - How have you found the yearly turns??? How long would it take to march from Wessex to the holy land for example? Please don't say 20 years.

Cheers