Kingdom of Jerusalem

[Bohemond]

Who else thinks the Frankish Kingdom of Jerusalem (1099-1303) should have been among the playable factions? Wasn't this originally intended to be a Crusader game? To have Papacy is fine, but IMO to leave out the very state that was the focus of all Crusader activity is an omission.

If you don't understand what I mean look at a map of the era and you might see.

Kingdom of Jerusalem (and vassals):

Provinces: Edessa, Antioch, Tripoli, Palestine, (maybe Cyprus in the late campaign)

Special units: Templars, Hospitaliters

Palestine produces high honour (+1)Templar/Hospitaliter order troops.

Glorious achievements:
Hold Jerusalem, Antiochia and Edessa
Keep peace with Byzantinum
..etc

[Aelfred Magna]

The thing that, in my opinion, warrants excluding this geographic region from the list of playable factions is the fact that it was, to a large extent, a puppet of whoever installed that particular king (different for different crusades) . . . sure it was a nice title to have (and should probably BE a title that can be granted if your faction takes over Jerusalem) but I don't think it warrants a spot as a playable faction, especially with all the other claimants to a left-out spot that have already been discussed here, and on other fora (Hungary, Lithuania, etc.)

[Bohemond]

Quote Originally posted by Aelfred Magna:
.. especially with all the other claimants to a left-out spot that have already been discussed here, and on other fora (Hungary, Lithuania, etc.)[/QUOTE]

Please go to your local bookstore and compare how many books they have about Hungary/Lithuania and how many are about the Crusades. Of course Jerusalem was not a major power but Crusades were the major events between 1099 and 12xx. Crusades to the Holy Land I mean, not between neighboring countries.

I hope it can be set up as mod.



[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 07-12-2002).]

[NagatsukaShumi]

Bohemod you comment on books is pretty pointless sorry to say that. I mean do you expect books about Lithuania and Hungary to be best selling history books in England? Of coarse not, infact it's the same in those countrties too, Lithuania will have book about mtheir own history etc.

[Emp. Conralius]

wow, that made a whole lot more sense than what Bohemond said...

[Bohemond]

On second thought my remark was pretty useless and its OK for me if you say so. What I wanted to point out is that the Crusades is the most dealt with event in books about the Early Middle Ages, and the reason is that it's simply breathtaking. I could go on for hours about this topic for days, how long could you about Lithuania?

What you are telling me now is that you think the Kingdom of Jerusalem didn't justify to be playable, because it was not a very powerful Nation like the others. I agree! This country would have never existed without help from outside. But it did exist, because it got help, and a lot of it! Countless wars raged, against Syria, Turkey, Egypt, only interrupted by short treaties, the essence of Total War.

I ask you what are all the Crusaders in MTW going to do now? Will Richard Lionheart ignore Saladin and mount a Crusade against Danemark, will St.Louis sail with his troops to London instead of Damiette? I must say I'm a bit let down, because I jumped from my seat when they announced "Crusader Total War", and now Crusades are just a minor stategic twist.

About a year ago I raised the topic of the Fatimides. Everybody wiped this aside, that they were so decadent and bla, bla. Now suddenly Egypt is a playable faction and no one seems to notice. Now it seems I am the only person in this Forum who would like to fight Crusades in a historically correct way, i.e. in the Holy Land. Hard to believe.

[the Count of Flanders]

I more or less agree with you Bohemund (but I wouldn't downplay the history of Lithuania). I also want to recreate the exploits Bohemund, Tancred, Godfrey and all the counts of Flanders that went on crusade (ie all of them since 1080 upto 1310). Maybe you'd like to check out the order I am affiliated with, I will make sure the crusades (and especially the first one) will be high on our agenda.
our site: http://oooo.freewebspace.com/

[Bohemond]

Dear Robert, hopefully everybody is going to be happy because it should be possible to do a mod. I might try do it, but I have to see the game first.

And I shall say no more against Lithuania .. but hey, why on earth did they include Switzerland ;-)