View Full Version : Perspective on opinions
Darkmoor_Dragon
07-15-2002, 19:37
Now that i have some time to write - being "sans PC" (until a new MB arrives) this post is long overdue. It's a post on "my perspective" for MTW and is relevant to anybody who reads any of my posts or previews on the game.
I've been writing on games for about 6 years now, a lot of MMOG stuff, some guides and i've ven been contracted to help on a couple of games in different areas (nothing for CA though), writing for both sites and print magazines (and newspapers) - all as a "freelancer" and a "second job".
I originally just wrote for Gamesdomain as their policy on writing reviews/previews was far superior to the "general" magazines or sites... mainly they actually played the games before reviewing - and i mean played them heavily - not blast up a review after 10 hours or a quick demo from a PR rep.
One thing i learned from GDR was that a review is far different to a preview and that both are for a "general audience". You're writing for "everyone" so the two extremes (hardcore and newbies) will always find fault with it (lack of "knowledge" and too intimate a "knowledge").
So any review or preview is always going to raise questions... but this doesnt change the aim of it - to pass over how, and this is important, the reviewer personally feels about the game.
Because, at the the end of the day, its all just personal opinion, different play styles, past experiences and especially "preconceptions".
I also learnt that games companies get the same "extremes" flak for very much the same reasons and especially the "wants" are often different and more foten at cross purposes.
And that's a lot of what MTW will show us all.
CA really have looked long and hard at the feedback from STW... they've both stated this and proven it. What they've done about it is another matter though - and again, one of perspective.
That "feedback" hasn't come frm one forum, or two, but dozens, thousands of emails and hundreds of personal contacts - so its far more varied than any one site.
Sat in the middle of this are the residents here at .org, to a degree very much representative of a "hardcore" and very much representative of the MP side of the game. But int erms of the %age of end-users? As with any forum its a tiny tiny fraction of te final users, even now in the biggest games out there you would bbe pushed to get 5% of people responding on a central official board or the most popular fan board.
We are a tiny few who care enough to argue about these things.
So who is the game aimed at?
My impression is that CA really want to expand their market. They don't want to sideline the TW series as a "wargame" (it isnt) or an "RTS" (it isnt that either) or a "strategy game" (it isnt simply that either)... and one of TWs problems is that the type of game it is doesn't have a "good label".
Now expansion of a amrket means making your product more appealing to new buyers whilst not disenfranchsing old buyers..and will always be a fine line to walk.
As many have stated here this is where "options" come into play - especially in "modes" of play. What we can't forget is that the smaller "our representation" in the market the less chance of that "Mode of play" being a core element.
The previewers/reviewers perspective on this is very different to the gamers. We (I) look at the core game as the "essential" game and this forms the core basis for whether it works or is good/bad. Anything over and above that is an additional feature that starts to earn the bonus-points and changes good->great.
This is really important to understand, because wherever a small community cries out for something that is a global change they are "ine ffect" calling for a change to the core game and something that may affect the core market, the "average" gamer - all those people who never post, but do play.
"What's good for the goose isn't (necessarily) good for the gander".
But what if...
The reviewer is a hardcore gamer also? Well if he's writing for the general market he/she has to drop their hardcore views and standpoint. Its as simple as that - the reader wont understand or if they did, wouldn't agree with that perspective in anycase.
And if they write for the hardcore audience...
It's no longer a review or preview on the core game, but on a niche opinion of what isnt in the core game or "should be in it"... it's essentially a review of soemthing completely different.
All of which, of course, is a bit of a dilemma, and one which most folks avoid by sticking wholesale to "generalised reviews/previews".
And this is relevant to .org why?
Couple of reasons:
1) Lurkers - i think you'll find a lot of lurkers at .org who've never really posted, but after the official site its the next best known.
2) The audience is getting bigger. Quite simply TW is a bigger game now than it was with STW...and this will impact .org.
What this ultimately means is that the range of opinion may well change, not that .org doesn't have a good range right now..but for a long time it was a ahven for the MP gamers involved in the badly supported MP side of STW.
Activision/Gamespy and MTW will change this I expect.
I digress:
So the point here is my persepctive - which is on the whole directed towards the core game for the core audience... or too put it another way "I wouldn't read my own reviews if I wanted the lowdown on MTW for my gaming perspective".
So (and stealing Terra's thunder here) I;ve "volunteered" to do a detailed preview of MTW, with personal screenshots (which has been ok'd) for .org.
Its gonna be long... probably very long and it won't cover everything, because the game is just too big (so ill hit maybe one or two factions mainly). It will also be written from my perspective on how i like to play and on what isnt the final version.
That's important - the game isn't finished and the rate of change is still high. I can't stress this enough, but want to put it here, so that i don't need to put it in the preview.
It's also going to be "entirely fresh" - mainly as i lost my main PC and have to replay everything i had previously done, and that's going to take time, I'd run up over 90 hours on my last Early English campaign and was only at the middle of the 1300's.
What I can't cover:
MP - because i've nobody to MP against! But i will add waht i gleaned from the visit to CA and MP games there...plus any new info from Activision/CA/Gamespy.
Every faction: Simply too big a job.
Every Era: Ditto
Every building: Ditto
(You get the point probably)
What I will do:
Detailed info on Crusades/Jihads: how they work and a walkthrough of an in-game one with screenshots.
Battle-map changes: Detailed info on the GUI and new elements in the battle portions of the game, the controls, reinforcements, allied actions, artillery, mount/dismount etc etc
Campaign: Examples of the importance of trade, titles, tech-tree paths and build times, faction start positions and resources (one or two only), the "move sequence", politics, special units, V&Vs (Vices & Virtues), the RPG element and longevity of genrals/kings/princes and effects on gameplay.
Game Walkthrough:
Follow one faction from Early Period toward end-game so you yourselves can get a feel for expansion, building times, moves, strategy and how the AI behaves (or not).
and hopefully:
This will give you all a foundation for "judging" what the game is likely to be like - the ultimate aim of any preview really... and saves me typing everything out here half a dozen times.
Just remember:
Don't shoot the messenger, my opinion is my opinion and whatever all of us say or do, its CA's game... if "you" ("we" / the gamer) want to influence it and the series follow-ups the best way is always "considered opinion and dicussion"... not "off the cuff rants".
Hopefully you'll be better placed to do this and more importantly dispell some of the misinformation that's come out from the various demo-files and urban legend... though it may also prove some - such is the life of a games reviewer.
(And finally a big thanks to Terra and .ORG for being able to [and wanting to] host it.)
NB: no dates yet as currently my PC is in ruins. Terra - i've also lost all my email access so have had to set up from scratch on this PC, (i.e. i've not got your email addy anymore)
BarryNoDachi
07-15-2002, 20:00
i pass the message on darkmoor, and get tera to mail you asap http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
i am also interested to see if your gonna come to MP when it finally comes out to show us what you got http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
[This message has been edited by BarryNoDachi (edited 07-15-2002).]
I'm stunned that Terazawa is allowing you to use the org as a marketing tool for the game. This is a player's site. Post to your so called "core" market somewhere else.
Thank you so much Darkmoor.
------------------
tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
------------------
Darkmoor_Dragon
07-15-2002, 20:25
Puzz - you have serious issues, you should see a doctor.
BarryNoDachi - i got my butt kicked last time i tried (long time ago) - will be there for MTW though, adsl and a better pc makes a difference, back then it was 28k modem and 3 fps
(my excuse and im sticking to it)
Darkmoor_Dragon
07-15-2002, 20:43
Puzz - i went and thought about it and..
Well - maybe you're right.
Sorry folks. Going to cancel that preview and stop posting here. Its obviously not somewhere im welcome and folks like Puzz think i work for CA anyway just because they're too lazy to find out about me or even dare to ask.
I'll be contactable at my own website and maybe ill add an MTW section to it whilst ive nothing else to do - ah the joys of being redundant and crippled... time a plenty and nothing to do with it.
is DD joking?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Erado San
07-15-2002, 21:08
Puzz... thanks mate. We have seen the reason why CA staff won't post here illustrated very well.
D_D... do that personal review for the rest of us. Don't let a minority spoil it for so many, please. And, for something different... please e-mail me at erado_san@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Erado San (edited 07-15-2002).]
NNNOOoooooooooooooooooooooo..........!!!!
PUZZ !!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
------------------
PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO
Trousermonkey
07-15-2002, 21:52
Please,
I'd like to see the preview.
Tm
DD, dunno if you're still lurking but,
Pleeeeeeeeease could you do that review for us? I'm sure the vast majority of us diehard fans are very interested in hearing your perspective on the game.
If you are set on not doing it here i'd kinda understand as you have taken a fair bit of flak, which should have been aimed at CA if anyone (sadly messenger shooting seems to be an all too common passtime for some http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif ). But even if thats the case could you at least let us know when and where it is, if you do still do it, either by starting a topic here or at .com (or both).
I think most folks, at both sites, have been very grateful for the time you have taken to answer our questions, (time which you could after all have spent playing the game), and i hope that you've picked up on this from the number of times that phrases such as 'thanks DD' have appeared in posts over the last few weeks!
the Count of Flanders
07-15-2002, 22:24
I'd really like to see the preview too!
Darkmoor, I’d like to know as much as you care to tell us about the game and so I encourage you to stay. I can tell opinion from fact. Opinions I consider, facts are facts. Both are welcome. Puzz and some others are perhaps too close to Shogun having worked on modifying it so much. All their work is into the dumpster when Medieval shows up. They are primarily online players and for reasons you mentioned you haven’t addressed that aspect of the game. I can assure you that the SP campaign is of little import to some patrons here. They see only confusion and the loss of the “comprehensible and elegant” (but none the less pilloried) norm that one OB for all factions provided. I believe that is what lies at the heart of his disillusionment, that and a sense of being ignored by CA when he believes he deserves better. I think his expectations along those lines are unreasonable but, hey, that’s his call to believe what he likes. He’s a good egg and deserves some slack cutting. OK, some major slack in this case.
Sorry, Puzz, but Monsta was nothing if not rude when Darkmoor arrived. He exhibited behavior that becomes all too common in forums of long standing, where a member of some notoriety comes to believe he speaks for all (or at least his clique), expects and gets validation from an amen chorus and is somehow above and beyond the norms of good conduct. Big post counts, clan rank or lots of online wins does not excuse poor manners toward new patrons. Ever. I would have said something at the time but waited to see how Darkmoor would react. He ignored Monsta like a fart in church which was the classy thing to do and so obviated any need to say more about it. What if Darkmoor were from CA? So what? Again, I know market speak when I hear it.
What really matters here is the veracity of what Darkmoor has told us. Who else has anything for us? His opinions of the game can be discerned and challenged but it’s the information that is worthwhile. He has been very responsive. He even acknowledges the org as a place where the “hard core” live. Isn’t that what we want? Info for the hard core players?
mizuYari
07-15-2002, 22:55
Well, Puzz3D is perhaps a bit frustrated by recent events. Hope it will be cured soon. BTW, the server is up. See you there Yuuki.
MizuYari
Emp. Conralius
07-15-2002, 23:57
hhhhhhhmmmmmmm.....
Mithrandir
07-16-2002, 01:15
bit sad that you cant take a little critisism, or maybe you're just fishing for compliments http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif.J/k. dont want to suck up, but do continue, if you really quit because of one tiny post it'd be a bit sad...
------------------
untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul
Darkmoor_Dragon
07-16-2002, 02:09
Ciriticism? Criticism I can deal with - but needless grief I don't need.
I've spent dozens of hours replying to posts and dont need to waste my time with paranoid tossers like Puzz who don't really want to really find out about anything - but just want to spout crap because they find it a) amusing and b) that someone knows more than them about the game as intimidating.
I've got enough grief dealing with a broken back and being made redundant without getting even mildly irritated by the likes of sados like that - i'd rather avoid the ORG entirely and move to where i can ban such chimps (my own forums that oddly enough are not part of CA eh Puzz?).
No offences guys - some great folks on these forums (some very good folks who do know a lot) but the overall attitude they give out is one of "If you haven't been here for years and have more than x hundred posts - Fook-off we dont want to know you"
Most amazingly for a TW forum anybody who likes the damn game is apparently a CA representative trying to market the game.. although WHY the hell CA would waste time or effort on 0.001% of their end market I have no idea at all.
No doubt Puzz will fill you all in as to why and fill you in on any new info and changes.
Anybody who wants to know anything about the actual game however is welcome to use my forums and follow the updates i'll now add to my own site...
because I like the game, like the series and like the work being done at CA, i may not agree with it all, but at least I can discuss it there with actual gamers without being harassed by assinine plonkers.
I've got enough grief on my plate atm without the likes of Puzz adding to it in anyway shape or form.
http://www.fourbelowzero.com/games/strategy/MTW/index.htm for general page
http://www.fourbelowzero.com/games/strategy/MTW/campaign/english.htm for english campaign.
http://www.fourbelowzero.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=14 for forums
mizuYari
07-16-2002, 02:27
Now, we may lose both of you ;(
MizuYari
Konnichiwa DarkMoor Dragon,
I know Puzz for a lot of years.
What you claim in your post is simply far from the truth.
Look at what you just posted and ask yourself this question: 'Am also I guilty here?'
And don't tell me that this was in reaction to what Puzz posted, we had a discussion like we have had many here at the org. It was your attitude 'I played it, I know and only I'.
No offences guys - some great folks on these forums (some very good folks who do know a lot) but the overall attitude they give out is one of "If you haven't been here for years and have more than x hundred posts - Fook-off we dont want to know you"
That impression is wrong. But what may be true is that you won't find all org people 'listening' to you because you played the built and you know it all. And that is not because you're new.
Voice your opinion but let us voice ours. Mind you that you're also just a patron here, just like Puzz, Wart and me.
------------------
Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
The Scourge
07-16-2002, 03:00
The English campaign was a great read.Left the mouth watering I can\t get into the other pages.Dam it!
Mithrandir
07-16-2002, 03:50
oh crap....
"please dont leave DmD"... now tell us more http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif. But I must agree...I think anyone under a certain amount of posts is just a crapy human being and should be ashamed of himself (click signature http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif).
Anywayz,if you've got the game, could you please post some screenshots, or alternativl mail em to me and I'll host&post em if you cant/dont feel like it...
------------------
Just aded another post :D
Mithrandir Poster of usefull information and entertaining posts (http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/dl2/full.cgi?spamsong.wav)
MagyarKhans Cham
07-16-2002, 04:04
GALLOP GALLOP GALLOP GALLOP GALLOP GALLOP GALLOP HAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLTTTT
I know my Khan is suspiocious about the hyping types of guys around here. The old garde (patrons) have faced many illusions of promisses. Many know that Target is my main buddy, mostly based on his bravery.
Darkmoor did a good thing in here, showing his face, posting numerous posts with unequalled lengths and even the content of the posts was appreciated by the most. So he is free to move around as well but he should know is closely watched by the Everlurking Wolf.
Furthermore, darkmoor is referring to a 0.001% market. I think this is way to low. As u stated many people come here, look around (as i do with other games as well) and check if the game is nice, buggy, being modded and got a lot of enthousiastic people around. They only llok around and not post cuz they dont want to be confronted with a registering of their name to make a single posts. Especially not if what they read answers all teh questions they have.
It would be wise of CA to post regeurly in here, being flamed or not. Cus the many people just keeping an eye on teh forums will also look if teh game is being supported by teh developers.
oops i have to go, GALLOP{ GALLOP
Mithrandir
07-16-2002, 04:10
Why would they bother to post in this forum anyway? it is a small part of the people as mentioned before ,and I think the figure of 0.001 is quite close to the truth.
My point is ,everybody in here is already going to buy the game, except some misguided souls which will burn it...
------------------
Just aded another post :D
Mithrandir Poster of usefull information and entertaining posts (http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/dl2/full.cgi?spamsong.wav)
Erado San
07-16-2002, 04:38
Having been a volunteer in this community for two years, and having been the subject of a similar disrespectful treatment on a number of occasions, I can only say that the behaviour of the handful of people who have chased Darkmoor Dragon away does not belong in the forum of a game that has honour and chivalry as important ingredients.
The insinuations made at the expense of Darkmoor Dragon are simply disgusting. If anybody can be the judge of that it is me. Simply because as a volunteer nobody has been flamed more in this community than myself. And I can tell you this:
You try to be nice. You try to do something for the peeps. And then you get this treatment. Well... it STINKS!!!
So what you don't agree with him. Does that justify the behaviour towards Darkmoor Dragon as we have seen over the past few days? We finally have one reliable source of information and this is what he gets?
A very small minority should seriously consider whether the fact that they just don't agree on an issue justifies their behaviour, which has cost the majority a welcome source of information.
On account of this majority...
Thank you very, very much.
[This message has been edited by Erado San (edited 07-15-2002).]
Darkmoor - I can't say I really have ever talked to you, yet I do want to take this time and thank you for everything you have done for the community. I have read every single (well...almost http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif) of your posts and have found them amazingly informative. I beg of you to stay and continue to help this community.
This preview would be allow us not to wait in the dark like we waited for MI but to have some nice hard facts. Thanks again!
------------------
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
—Samuel Johnson
[This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 07-15-2002).]
Too many paranoid egos!! ....grow up!
Anyone who thinks that they are something special because they have XXX posts, were number X on the online ranking, have XXX title etc etc ....are.. well deluded.
In real life (including here) you have to earn respect. IMHO, that kind of respect comes when one has a noble character, the best evidence of which is self-less acts for the benefit of others i.e exhibited by Erado, Darkmoor
Well said Erado. You have proven your character time and time again. (*salute'e*)
Cheers
------------------
PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO
vyanvotts
07-16-2002, 06:04
i completely agree, i have read many of DD's posts and he has even answered many of my questions that others couldnt, he was/is a very reliable source.
its a shame that others cant see this. he is only trying to offer some insight into the the game and thats what he gets for it.
brilliant.
i have a few more questions that id like to ask maybe PUZZ could answer them for me. or am i not worthy of PUZZ's time becuase my post count isnt high enough?
LittleGrizzly
07-16-2002, 06:34
look guys lets calm down shall we all be adult about this.
ok puzz is a nice friendly helpful guy darkmoor dragon ditto.
why did puzz say this umm i truly dont now.... maybe he could tell us.
i dont understand his reasoning maybe or maybe not an apology is in order.
ok puzz never said he disrespected him cause he aint very good at game or aint got x amount of posts so drop those points!
mizuYari
07-16-2002, 06:38
I must point out that bring in the post count is sort of cheap too, dont you think? Did Puzz3D said anything about "You listen to me, I have a high post count"?
You may say I am sticking out for my clansmate, but if you think that was not personal attack and inuendo, then think again.
Anyways, as I said, frustration was running high since:
1. It seems the servers are down for many days (I heard previous time it was down for almost a week);
2. The realization that the MP play is not a strategically important enough for support.
MizuYari
LittleGrizzly
07-16-2002, 06:41
Quote Originally posted by LittleGrizzly:
ok puzz never said he disrespected him cause he aint very good at game or aint got x amount of posts so drop those points![/QUOTE]
i agree
I think that was a generalisation and not strictly directed at Puzz...well that was my intent anyways.
So, can we now get back to discussing MTW?
Cheers
------------------
PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO
LittleGrizzly
07-16-2002, 09:03
well most of us can but without that very much appreciated info from Darkmoor plz plz come back
I don't care who Putz is, there's no room for rudeness. Darkmor has been very open and forthcoming, answering questions, writing very long descriptions. Too bad some people haven't learned how to act like adults instead of children. Maybe Putz will grow up some day.
Grifman
LittleGrizzly
07-16-2002, 09:43
grifman btw its puzz not putz
Yeah, I know . . .
Grifman
What did I miss?
Quote
Originally posted by Darkmoor_Dragon
-----------------------------------
Originally posted by Puzz3D:
Nelson,
Your kidding, right? Monsta was right.
-----------------------------------
[/qoute]
Go away Puzz and do your homework... or get back to watching "conspiracy theory". Your speciality assinine behaviour is precisely the sort of thing that would drive people away.
If you've got something to say at least have the bottle to say it straight - without hiding behind innuendo....
otherwise "morsus mihi"
Have I missed something?
1. Puzz exihibits incredulity at an accident,
2. Darkmoor insults Puzz,
3. Puzz ignores insult, but queries Tera's reasons for hosting what will basically be an advertisement. Also notes comments in Darkmoor's post that the org is not representative of Shogun players.
4. Darkmoor chucks a wobbly and leaves.
what did I miss here?
Sir Kuma of The Org
07-16-2002, 10:16
Bye, Bye, exclusive preview about Med TW posted at the org. Bye, bye, info about the Med TW right here in our forum.
Back to the old bitching about CA etc... not giving us any info. Back to the desperate searches on the web to find some scraps of info on the game.
Talk about shooting yourself on a foot... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif
Guys, some of your posts really frightened me.
Am i to understand that the changes done to the forums (going Medieval) is part of an evil ploy combined with the STW server being down, to move people away from STW to MTW?
Am i to understand that Darkmoor Dragon WAS an evil henchmen sent by CA to brainwash us, the pure, the only bearers of STW truth?
Wow... (Speachless)
------------------
La vie est un don.
Papewaio
07-16-2002, 10:17
Actually there is an upside with the links, take some time at look at Darkmoor Dragons website. Most impressive information, simple and easy to use layout, elegant and plenty of good screenshots and links.
BTW D_D I hope my posts didn't offend you. I am the Black Sheep of the Forum http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif Apologies if I had offended you at some point. This site does have a few who get under each others skin, the nice thing is we get to see quite a few polar match ups and as long as the discussion aims at the information and not each other at least the audience learns a few things on the way. Nor is it a monochrome site of genuflecting hicks, more like a spectrum of fairly stiff necked individuals who have there opinions and are not easily placated.
We are fanatical and somewhat paranoid here as well. No one blinks an eye lid about Vanya's or Krastkurks posts so that sort of proves my points. And if you read somethings posted by Khan7, Idaho, Wavesword, Jag, Soly etc you will see quite a range of opinions. Just don't expect everyone to be socialable... I think to many have been prepping for MTW by reading Machi's book and have taken it on board to deeply http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif.
I don't like seasons (removal) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif but I see that as either ignorance on my part or foresight, and I see you as the explorer on our behalf not the maker of the terrain. I do value your opinion and the opinion of other posters here. That is why I have stated I will wait to see what the general consensus is on the game before commiting money and time to it.
Hope your back gets better.
-------
Code for Life:
100 TW = 1
101 PLAY TW FOR 63072000 seconds
102 TW = TW + 1
103 GOTO 101
[This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 07-16-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
I'm stunned that Terazawa is allowing you to use the org as a marketing tool for the game. This is a player's site. Post to your so called "core" market somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
Puzz you made wrong here.
To be clear I am not a fan of DD's "I have played the game and you haven't" attitude and I find some of his post a little patronizing.
But I can still appreciate the time and effort he invested to bring us updates and info about the game. And as he said that was just his personal opinion. Accusing him of posting his review as a marketing strategy for the game was very insulting. He deserved better.
On the other side I feel that DD simply overreacted. Annoying as Puzz' post was I still think that DD overreacted.
Let's not make this a bigger issue. One of the things that made TW.org such an outstanding place was the mature and friendly environment. If such environment is lost then this place won't be any better than a Quake's Webboard http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
[This message has been edited by Choco (edited 07-16-2002).]
Sir Kuma of The Org
07-16-2002, 10:35
Quote Originally posted by barocca:
[B]
...but queries Tera's reasons for hosting what will basically be an advertisement...
B][/QUOTE]
Nevermind Tera. I am the one who agreed to Darkmoors proposal a few weeks ago when he sent me an E-Mail asking me what type of info-questions he could ask on our behalf when he met with the game devs. Darkmoor came back to me with the idea of a preview aimed at the org clientele a few days ago.
So you see i am also an evil CA rep, and after taking control of the forums admins seat, i was planning to take control of the world, but my evil plans we're foiled.
Yes everything that Darkmoor posted here was hype, he did not give us any useful info (So imagine how a full preview with pics would have been-plain advertisement wall to wall) and we only wanted to brainwash
you in buying this game.
Ca is paying me in Geisha's and we the staff members of the org control the STW game server MUahahahahahahahaha. I am the one that brought it down.
And i will do it again, just in spite.
[This message has been edited by Sir Kuma of The Org (edited 07-16-2002).]
Darkmoor mentioned that the org and it's patrons are not a 'core' market.
Darkmoor offered to write an SP review of the game.
Puzz simply mentioned that the Org is a players domain, and Puzz considered the content of Darkmoor's document could be described as marketing,
yet Darkmoor already said the Org and it's patrons are not CA's core market!
Perhaps Puzz took offence at Darkmoor basically labelling the patrons of the Org irrelevent to CA's Marketing Strategy, this combined with the possibility of Darkmoor's document being "marketing" aimed at the SP market, produced a conumdrum,
whuch Puzz stated clearly.
In a previoud thread Darkmoor insulted Puzz for reasons that totally escape me, as I posted earlier in this thread.
Darkmoor ended his Second Tirade at Puzz with
the comment "Morsus Mihi"
Roughly Translated Bite Me
where has Puzz been Insulting?
The only insults i see being thrown around are coming FROM Darkmoor and aimed squarely AT Puzz
i ask again,
Where has Puzz been insulting to Darkmoor?
[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 07-16-2002).]
ALSO
just to dispel flaming BEFORE it begins
i was interested in Darkmoor's offer, and would have loved to see it,
but this has become WRONGLY a pick on Puzz thread
Dark Phoenix
07-16-2002, 10:56
It really is a shame when such good posters are forced off a site coz a few peeps dont agree with his opnion, this forum really has gone downhill from when I first joined probably why I have withdrawn to the OTF.
------------------
"DP is correct" - Shiro
-----------------------
We may have years, we may have hours,
but sooner or later, we push up flowers
Papewaio
07-16-2002, 10:59
For future reference Emperor Kuma;
http://members.tripod.com/%7Emrpuzuzu/plan.html
May I suggest this selection http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif;
Your objective is simple: Total War Domination
Your motive is a little bit more complex: Sadistic Pleasure
Stage One:
To begin your plan, you must first Seduce a Games Reporter. This will cause the world to sit up and take notice, stunned by your arrival. Who is this Sadistic Fiend? Where did they come from? And why do they look so good as an Intelligence Transferred into a Computer?
Stage Two:
Next, you will Seize control of the Internet. This will cause countless hordes of Computer Programmers and totalwar.org patrons to flock to you, begging to do your every bidding. Your name will become synonymous with MTW, as lesser men whisper your name in terror.
Stage Three:
Finally, you will Reveal to the World your CA Takeover, bringing about Something That's Total War. This will all be done from a Medieval Castle, an excellent choice if we might say. These three deeds will herald the end, and the citizens of this planet will have no choice but to elect you their new god.
Trust us, it'll all come together in the end.
----
Can I be Mini-me Kuma?
this thread is going nowhere, helping no one, close it. 4get about the whole thing. show us whatever interesting info there is to be shown, and we'll play like mad online MTW with DD, Yuuki, Monsta, Kuma, etc.. and enjoy every bit of it.
Gah!
------------------
tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
------------------
Gregoshi
07-16-2002, 11:50
DP is correct.
------------------
Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon
oZoNeLaYeR
07-16-2002, 12:09
hmmm no post from Puzz... is he afraid?
thx you puzz... we've lost the only source.
GROW UP!
one more thing. without marketing, this game simply wont sell, without sales, no money. no money means no TW...
barocca...
Understand the man, he came here to inform us. Almost at once he got picked on for saying his oppinions on a game he alone has played. He gave lots of info we NEVER would have gotten hold of and still there was recentment from some.
How would you feel if you offered to give an exclusive preview, and was basically told off with the comment that you were not wanted:
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
Post to your so called "core" market somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
Puzz said I don't want to see you.
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
I'm stunned that Terazawa is allowing you to use the org as a marketing tool for the game.[/QUOTE]
Marketing? He was doing us a personal favour, that would certainly make me sad if anybody responded that way to me.
So Puzz wasn't calling him names, but lets be real he was either angry or insane, I believe the first.
Barocca it was this post that was insulting:
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
I'm stunned that Terazawa is allowing you to use the org as a marketing tool for the game. This is a player's site. Post to your so called "core" market somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
It's not name calling but it is offensive to someone who has spent alot of time posting information and not hype, for the benefit of all who are interested in buying and playing the game.
I think it's best of Puzz and DD give each other a big hug and say sorry and we get on with discsussing the game.
Puzz, you want to make the first move?
Right anyone want to talk about seasons http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Kraxis, sorry I covered the same thing as you but I seem to be having trouble or at least the board(maybe) is having trouble showing recent posts on threads.
Tried refreshing and it dosn't help, it seems to take about 10 minutes for a post to register on the end of the thread.
Only seem to have happened in last couple of days.
Anyone else getting same problem?
Blimey this one worked straight away http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif
[This message has been edited by DrNo (edited 07-16-2002).]
Same problem here, I actually didn't see my own post, as well as other of my own posts just now.
Funny to see how we more than agree. Basically use the same words.
Catiline
07-16-2002, 15:00
The boardis sometimes grumpy, try exiting the browser and starting it again, or repeated refreshing, time to practice that Ctrl+R reflex.
A general observation:
This thread isn't exactly an edifying sight gentlemen. We are, I believe, in the business of discussing MTW. Bitching, of which there seems to be much recently both here and in STW is not a constructive outlet. IMO we should be hugely grateful to Darkmoor for the information he has provided us with, regardless off whatever you may think of his motives for being here. Would we know these things without him? No.
I for one consider myself grown up enough to make my own judgements about the quality and source of any inforamtion proffered here. I'm not alone in that I'm sure.
------------------
Timeo hominem unius libri
read Darkmoors post VERY carefully,
now read it again.
If I had to analyse it for an assignment on hidden meanings it reads thus
I asked CA about various issues raised here and was told that the opinions to be found here are not those of CA's intended core market.
I, however, agree with some of those issues.
but not all, but that is a matter of personal choice.
I believe the game does not have all of the 'options' I would like it to have.
He then offers US a look at some of the features of campaign play, for those of us who may be interested.
(ME! - definately ME)
Puzz took offence at being told the org's opinions are not 'core',
and over-reacted,
Darkmoor (in my opinion) also over-reacted,
but then he may be totally frustrated at some of us who are NOT reading between the lines. - after all there is so much D_D WANTS to tell us, but he's not allowed...
After all you don't think CA just telephoned Darkmoor for a casual chat and just happened to mention that the org is not a 'core market target' for Medieval?
do you?
The only reason they would tell him is He asked them something, an issue raised by someone here, and theresponse was
The Org is not 'core'!
Puzz got his hackles up,
and D_D gave in to frustration.
The ORG = Not Core Target Audience!
and after all the work the ORG has done to keep the game alive...
This is so bad, we all love Total War but we're hindering its growth, probably unconcsiously. Darkmoor is not a CA marketing sletje but even if he was...what is so wrong with that? But he isn't. I think Yuuki said the morale of the story himself.
Quote
I'm stunned that Terazawa is allowing you to use the org as a marketing tool for the game.[/QUOTE]
Maybe this is shameless but I love Total War and if the ORG can help Total War to grow and prospour I am MORE than glad to help it. If your love for Total War is like mine than I don't know what the heck are you trying to say here.
Darkmoor is probably right. ORG is visited by many since on all sites its rated as the "best Total War fansite". Most old hardcore players post on these forums...and new players come too, and will continue to do so. But CA want to aim further...sites like GameSpot, GameSpy, IGN etc have big thousands of visitors and it's not a surprise they get the beta versions and exclusive previews, demos and news.
DarkMoor's preview on ORG would also help the site itself. ORG is quite ignored by CA in terms of previews etc...I believe Darkmoor's preview would be a perfect advertisment for the site and for Total War. It can even convince CA to support us more, why not?
Finally, a note on Yuuki. I know Yuuki for a long time and he is one of the most hard working members of the community. I really don't understand the fuss he's making on this preview, we all love Total War and if I can help then I will be glad to do so.
Mail in the box Darkmoor, please see it.
------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
I like game demo. I like to read preview and review and I read lots of them. Will these so called "marketing tools" make me buy the game? Not always.
To Darkmoor Dragon,
I've read the two campaign overview on the other site. I like it and I want more. I like to read more about some of the details you offered in the first post that you posted here.
Konnichiwa,
Quoted by Erado
the forum of a game that has honour and chivalry as important ingredients.
Exactely, and DarkMoor-Dragon is just a patron here as well.
Some posts have been edited here, but do you really think Puzz would just post this for nothing?
I feel DarkMoors latest post is very insulting and offensive. He voices it very clear there: no chivalry at all.
Many of the patrons won't see it or just overlook it because DarkMoor gives us so many info about the game that nothing else matters; we were running a normal discussion and his attitude was: 'I played it I know'.
Quoted by Catiline (edit; sorry Shiro and Catiline :-)
I for one consider myself grown up enough to make my own judgements about the quality and source of any inforamtion proffered here. I'm not alone in that I'm sure.
Agree, that was our impression too: that we were able to judge about things.
About anyone is jumping on Puzz now, DarkMoor is no saint and neither am I.
------------------
Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
[This message has been edited by TosaInu (edited 07-16-2002).]
Catiline
07-16-2002, 17:22
That quote's from me actually, not Shiro
------------------
Timeo hominem unius libri
No one really knows that there are actually two of us. We always get lumped together. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
My spelling is much better though. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
------------------
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
—Samuel Johnson
Erado San
07-16-2002, 18:42
OK, I think this has got to stop now, before we all get paranoid.
Facts:
1 - Darkmoor is an independant reviewer, not related to CA in any way.
2 - Darkmoor has permission by CA to post information here.
3 - We are not CORE, since our number is too small for that (I estimate about 0.2% of the projected sales figure is represented here). This was not something Darkmoor said because CA told him so. How do I know this? I use my braincell and my common sense.
4 - Darkmoor posted a lot of useful information.
5 - Michael de Plater revealed in a chat that the turns are now on a yearly basis.
6 - A number of people are not happy with this and have responded to that in several threads, included those of Darkmoor
7 - Darkmoor argues that it is too early for them to make those assumptions, since there is a lot more happening in the strategy part than those people can know, simply because they have not seen it yet, and he has.
8 - A number of people have since treated Darkmoor with disrespect. In a number of threads, both here and at the .com forum.
9 - Darkmoor has asked on a number of occasions what these people mean by their insinuations. None have been daring enough just to speak out their suspicions.
10- As a result, Darkmoor has decided he does not deserve this attitude and decided to pack up and go.
-------------------------------------------
In this context, it is of no significance who is right or wrong. Years? Seasons? I don't care dick!
Darkmoor has been a wealthy source of information and now he has gone. Some people should think about whether this was worth it. After all, the only thing that was going on was a difference of opinion. People can disagree. Does that deserve disrespect? Does that justify the insinuations that Darkmoor is a pawn of CA? I don't think so.
People make mistakes. I make mistakes. I think Darkmoor makes a mistake to leave, as that only is a loss to a majority caused by a minority. Puzz made a mistake in the way he addressed Darkmoor. So did Monsta. So did Tosa. So did JRock. Barocca in his last post added to the CA-Darkmoor conspiracy, which does not even exist. And probably some others made mistakes too.
We all should learn from this that it is ok to agree or disagree on a subject. But never should this lead to situations like this. Because, no matter how you look at this, the departure of Darkmoor is a loss to us all.
I now close this thread, because this has gone far enough. No more paranoia please. This is about a game we all should enjoy, or if you don't like it or some features, then that is ok too. But don't lose respect for those that mean well. They don't deserve that.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.