The inside word

[RageMonsta]

Well maybe if this D D person has gone we may get somebody who is going to tell us something that is not already available concerning the game.

It would be a great idea for CA to send some kind of copy of the game to Erado/Tosa/Magyar etc for testing....and then we could have a review without bias.

NOT A CHANCE...why..because 99% of the Org. folk are 100% dedicated to TW...we no doubt found things that even the developers did not know...faults etc....better systems...and for sure they dont want the (small worthless end of the market) likes of us to 'throw a spanner in the works'...this I understand..they got kids to feed.

I have a better idea why dont we find a 'freelance' writer..maybe this writer will bring his ball out to play....but be careful if we dont play the game by his rules he will take that ball home..noooooo!

we had all just got to look forward to the way it bounces.....not that we havent seen a ball bounce before....but this one is special.....it bounces with a semi proffessional style..so we must respect this BALL.....but the has gone...kill the hater of the ball!

hmmm no sense in this thread...

then again we all read things but we dont all see the words the same way.

I doubt it Monsta. After what happened to Darkmoor I doubt CA/Activision will find it inspiring to give a copy to anyone here.

This is just shameful and I am really sad about this. Driving off such an informative person, the ONLY one we had for such a stupid thing like marketing strategies and core markets and shit n' stuff. As if the normal player gives a flying damn about it. We just want more previews and more information about the new game and as site admin here I want ORG to have more credibility and be bigger and better. But some don't want that apparently, they prefer arguing. I am doubting about the love for the game of some of us here.

And btw, thank you really. You should be ashamed, you not only did harm to Total War but mostly to ORG. It's real love eh...
------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 07-16-2002).]

[Vanya]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[MizuKokami]

i'm just wondering if ca is so stupid that they don't know how to maximize profits.

[Stephen Hummell]

So your saying he left cause of pressure from upper players who don't want anybody getting info before the game comes out.

[RageMonsta]

During DD's early posts Monsta noticed a pattern..being the type of person who likes to question issues (the key to life is knowing the answers)...and it being a better 'forum' if at times we do have some form of 'arguement' (aslong as constructive)....Monsta read replies by the now famed DD....and ask...yes ASKED..was he in some way connected to the games promotional team...

He seemed to know an awful lot about the game considering he had just appeared on the scene...nobody demanded or insulted (although Monsta has his way of 'speaking' during these little exchanges)...DD gave answer...but people began to think...and right they are/were to do so.

Now this is not wrong...and the reason came about because everytime somebody put forward a question that seem slightly towards critism DD answered with what seemed very much like promotional hype..(habits of a 'freelance' writer?)

Not saying that this was his intent but..it did seem that way to Monsta...so a question was put forward....and couple of people claimed Monsta was wrong (which is fine...purpose of forum is to air views...or so it seems)....

but some 'respected'/'veteran' members of the Org. echoed Monsta's feelings/thoughts..maybe because they re-read the threads or were thinking the same..or because we have had a couple of years of bad relations with CA/EA?

Anyway...it is not a 'sin' to question or ask...and when somebody is to be writing about the game we play (on a fan site may I add)we would be better to ask who this person is and what they do....after all they are in many ways representing the ideals and thoughts of the 'fan'.

Sometimes people forget that the Org. exist because the fans choose to come here..fine work is done by the Org imps...but without the likes of Krast/Tosa/Magayar/Vanya et al the Org will not continue....so like the worker in the factory..the Org. offers us a service (like a wage) but without our visits (workers labour) the Org. (workplace) ceases to operate.

So when somebody..Mr DD comes from out of nowhere and offers us gifts...for nothing we are correct to question...because it is not often we see anybody do something for nothing....even the staff here gain something ..if only status within the TW world...or just some form of hobby.

Now a strange thing happened....a well respected and hard working member of the TW world made a comment....something more associated with myself...shall we say blunt...but not offensive....and our bringer of gifts/gems replied in anger and took his ball home....for some reason my name was mentioned 4 times during the now closed thread...which is fine...Monsta is never one to shun a little promotion.....but anyway...

It seems so many people are hyped up about MTW that if there is even a suggestion that it may not be perfect (partially due to the over rated MI/WE)the offender gets slammed as ..childish/harming the game/ignorant etc...

This is a forum..on a fan site..a forum is 'free press'....or is it.

I seem to remember that before the launch of MI/WE many threads and posts were removed from the .com forum..and placed into a 'rants' forum....even when another game was mentioned this happened...as a result alot of the on-line players stopped using the forum...why are threads removed?

Now unless there is foul language or abuse/flame there should never be a reason to silence a voice...then the point of the forum is removed....if somebody answers this in a manner not fit for public viewing then remove that post....but let people have their say.

We may all be wrong (or right depending) the game may well be the best thing to ever happen...but we will soon see those defending come running back screaming if things go wrong....as for DD...he may be great for us...but for gods sake stop acting like junkies after a fix.....his list of what he could not tell us was twice what he could and not alot did he cover that we cannot find elsewhere.....and do you really want a review that comes over 100% + for the game..because not once did he seem to critisize..no offence DD before you strike me down with your superior writing skills http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

said my bit.tis my right.right or wrong.

what else would you expect?

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by MizuKokami:
i'm just wondering if ca is so stupid that they don't know how to maximize profits.[/QUOTE]

Based on that comment: 'He's one of them!'

I don't think CA are stupid at all. In fact I think they are having a hard time making the game stupid enough so the general market will buy the game. Unfortunately the general market is actually smarter then perceived. The stupidity is in relying on marketers who like slogans and snappy phrases to do the marketing on a game that is in-depth, requires thought and isn't over faster then they have sex.

'my god I havn't finished this in like 20 minutes'

'make it easier for me to see things through my funky shades, I need brighter colours'

'Hey here in southern cal we don't have seasons and when I went to southern spain they didn't either, I thought this game was based on realism, chuck that idea of seasons or we can't market it on the realism angle'

'I saw Prince of Thieves and when I saw those old crumbly crappy old castles I know they can't be that structural strong as they didn't use concrete but just stones, so to be realistic I want to see the catapults chew through them'

'I'm taking a few months off lets unload the work on an independent freelance reviewer, 'Don't worry the fans will be nice to you and they won't confuse you with us''.

[RageMonsta]

It seems that you can get your 'fix' at DD's site..nice to see he uses info gained from the on-line (lower end of the market players) during his review..strange really considering the person who work months (yes months) to try and solve this issue (guns) was a person he insulted...maybe the org should promote over at gamesdomain..up that hit counter for the add men a little!

DD's hours of experience are something to be proud of.

[Puzz3D]

Tera,

You don't build credibility with the players by allowing a biased review to be posted at the org, and it was made quite clear that any criticisms of this biased review were not welcome. Most of Darkmoor's "I want to muzzle you" posts have been edited so you don't see the pattern of beratement and marginalization in them, but you can still see how I'm a sado chimp among other things who should see a doctor, and be banned in the "perspectives of opinion" thread. He came into two threads about the seasons using those debating tactics. Those threads were a reaction to what Michael DePlatter said in the chat at Gamespy, not something Darkmoor said. He also didn't like the response he got at the official com forum, and that had nothing to do with me. He's got good information, but he sure is carrying a lot of baggage along with it. He can come back without fear of me dissagreeing with anything he says because I won't be posting at the org anymore.

[LittleGrizzly]

anybody who helped drive D_D away i have a problem with doesnt mean ill randomly insult them but he had good knowledge of the game and thats enuf to satsify me

[RageMonsta]

Oh so somebody else noticed..

does anybody remember the Emperors new clothes story?....did you not see how naked he was?

I always said if TW was in one room instead of via the net it would be more fun...DD says 'you chimp'...and strangley enough its him seeing the doctor!...oh what I wouldnt give for a TW convention....St Johns Ambulance would be hard worked.... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

[MizuKokami]

since i haven't read all the posts that d_d made on mtw, i need to ask, did he ever speak ill of the game?

[RageMonsta]

Grizz it is amazing we could even breath without DD.. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

Puzz (we use for the sake of those unaware) you cannot go ..there is not many of us left to fight off the 'drug' crazed fiends http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif

[RageMonsta]

Koka...whoever you are (shhh they will think we planned this http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ) an answer to your question with a question-

Did Tyson manage the distance with Lewis?

your answer is?

[LittleGrizzly]

Quote Originally posted by RageMonsta:
[B]Grizz it is amazing we could even breath without DD.. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif[B][/QUOTE]

heh ok whatever he gave good info and was gonna write a preview i really dont see ur problem!

[MizuKokami]

i must confess monsta, whoever you are(hehe), i didn't see the fight, tho i heard it didn't go well for tyson, (tho i am sure he will get an earful for it), but i would guess, the answer was no?

[MizuKokami]

i have no problem with darkmoore, i have a problem with how puzz has been treated in favor of darkmoore. this past year, puzz has been a wealth of knowledge, that most, if not all, have benifitted from. he makes a comment that bothers everyones favorite new prima donna, and suddenly he's scum? i don't understand this. could someone please explain this to me, as you would a child?

[RageMonsta]

problem..

ok lets say Monsta came here and wrote in proper king's english and not monstonain... and wrote with some 'inside' knowledge..

When questioned about the game..due to the passion of our fantastic players of TW. I say 'Indeed o people of the computer worldness of Total Warryness' (proper english like)...'I have played said yonder game and with my vastness of experiences I can give you..the peoples of Total Worldly War the insiders word'.

Eager passionate players listen.....and trust me...I mean no harm...but alas my news is grave...'O game of Total Medievalness is sh*t'....devasted many turn away...and take up exercise or read a book.or some such waste of time...and do not depart with their hard earned corn....

Nobody asked who Monsta reviewer was....and it turned out he was eviiiiiillllllll (nearly as evil as evil tosa) spy for EA..'MUHAHAHA CA will never survive without us'...some ignored the proper english speaking...but sadly the damahe was done...


and I just forgot what you said in your post grizz...oh well off the practise my King's Englishness.

[LittleGrizzly]

well i dont care what ya though he gave great info!

also on insulting puzz i said people should stop doing this if ya check as he is a nice friendly person

[RageMonsta]

funny really...the review at DD's site could be cut and pasted here....did he decide not to right his review here before or after he finished that one?...would it have changed from that one....did he get 100x more visits to his page (oh and now the MTW forum there) since his stint at the Org...maybe he will come back and tells us...or has he done his bit for the good of us all..the saint!

Isnt Joan of Arc a saint?.....think they got it right when they lit the bonfire http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[LittleGrizzly]

lol there really is no reasoning with ya

[RageMonsta]

grizz would you like to join me in a pyramid money scheme?...all you do is invest $100 dollars (give it to me) then you go and find 10 people who will invest $100 to you...and like magic you profit $900.

[MizuKokami]

reason is a pyramind scheme?

[Erado San]

So all we have is a lot of people jumping to conclusions, me included perhaps...

One thing before anything else, D_D is not a member of CA, or I must be very mistaken.

Look, whatever happened has happened, ok? Somehow a guy who had the best information we have had so far has gone, and that is a shame.

Puzz, it's too easy the way you put it. D_D got some heavy flak over his defense of de Platers revelation about the yearly turns. Yet his defense was not that unreasonable. It cold well be that that's just his opinion and the way he presented it rubbed you the wrong way because of your disappointment over those yearly turns. You, and others, I have no intention of pickin on anybody in particular, gave him a rough ride which he did not really deserve.

But, to walk away like he did is just as much a mistake, although I can understand it. I sometimes get some stick for my opinions/views on certain things too, and that doesn't help my enthusiasm either. But I don't run away from the majority because of the stupidity of the minority, so to speak. And I ask you to do the same, Puzz. Whatever you do I won't respect you and your achievements for this community any less, But I am sure I speak for that majority when I say you're still as much appreciated as before.

Interesting suggestion, Monsta... me doing an unbiased review... problem is that I may stumble upon some things that I like and others don't, now when I defend my opinion what will happen then? Oh who cares, I get flamed regularly enough and hardly notice anymore http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Let's all lighten up and get on with things. No use letting things ike this get the better of usm right?

[LittleGrizzly]

monsta plz if ur gonna argue speak english

[Papewaio]

Monsta in this pyramid scheme can we use heads instead?

I would like to try the naked headless chiefs latest recipe for Gah!, but it requires at least 10 heads.

So if I trade you the headless horsemens head who do I then get the other heads from?

Gah! Gnish! Gnash!

[MizuKokami]

i'm not touching the head thing.

oh, and grizz, concerning reason, i've seen too many people follow after things that they have accepted without questioning. i find it unreasonable to accept the word of a person who has nothing but good to say of a thing almost to good to be true. he had no, "i like this, but...". an unbiased review would have a but, which is not to be confused with an a**. so as for reason, (throw hands in air in frustration), i find it highly unreasonable to accept all he has to say.

oh... erado san, i'm done, sorry for the continued....(would you call it fighting?)

[This message has been edited by MizuKokami (edited 07-17-2002).]

[RageMonsta]

Groupies give away head!

Erado...he did have some info..but can we understand why he offered a review to the Org and also release one on another site before hand?....would he have done anything different here?

From the reaction he got from the 'groupies'...the 'please dont leave we have no life crowd'...he must have added at least x1000 plus hits to his page 'over there'....like I wrote before..nobody does anything for nothing...and he did seem to have a habit of telling us what we wanted to hear and what had already been written....his departure made things seem even worse...a critic (shall we say) who cannot take criticism!

It seems that so many hopes are left in the hands of CA et al....I just hope they deliver because it has become very scary some of the attitudes in the forum....it seems that life depends on how good this game will be....sad on reflection.

Sorry Monsta is not one of the 'Shiney Happy People'...put the Shiney people over there and the Happy people over there...because I belong to the 'angry till pleased...and witnessed the greatness of a game..SP and MP people who like to question the experts when they try and speak for us all'.......plus I would like to join the 'clique' that was mentioned elsewhere in this forum who 'bully' others into our way of thinking ...the 'circle' as it has been known to be called!

grizz...do you buy everything people try and sell you?.with age you will read the small print..or you may just be taking home alot of tartan paint!

[MizuKokami]

oh, one last thing. WOW!!!!! a string of posts without mithrandir http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif(yet)

[LittleGrizzly]

Monsta him being insulted + causing him 2 leave the forum got him 1000x more hits umm so he got someone to insult him on purpose ?!

also plz return we have no life crowd
lol people wanted him to return as he had info why did they have no life cause thier dedicated to shogun and wanted to now lots bout M:TW but hmm wouldnt that include every1 here ?!

[RageMonsta]

Did he give anything that was not given elsewhere?

And the 'have no life' comment is justified when you read posts saying 'where has D D gone he was the best'...really.

He wasnt insulted...infact he opened his mouth first...maybe I insulted him...dunno.

And think of it this way..how many from here would have bothered the visits 'gods' web page if he had not gained a splattering of 'groupies' who he fed bits of a fix till they became addicted to his wares?

'Dear Org..i the freeleance writer will grant you a review of the forthcoming game...your hard work will be rewarded by my exclusive review and your patrons will orgasm at the revelations i will deliver to them...btw...you can also read it at gamesdomain..oh....and after hmmm at least 300 hours of non stop play i have found not one simgle fault with the game..it is perfection beyond measure....so your exclusive review will contain info already available but unlike those mere mortals i will post some threads in your forum and seem almost human...'

I am begining to enjoy this..hope he comes back!...but 'does a dead bird fall out of the nest'?

[RageMonsta]

i have also given up sleep....

[MizuKokami]

boy monsta, am i ever glad your on my side http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[LittleGrizzly]

Quote Originally posted by RageMonsta:
[B]'Dear Org..i the freeleance writer will grant you a review of the forthcoming game...your hard work will be rewarded by my exclusive review and your patrons will orgasm at the revelations i will deliver to them...btw...you can also read it at gamesdomain..oh....and after hmmm at least 300 hours of non stop play i have found not one simgle fault with the game..it is perfection beyond measure....so your exclusive review will contain info already available but unlike those mere mortals i will post some threads in your forum and seem almost human...'
B][/QUOTE]

hmm now thats real mature aint it

[Papewaio]

Monsta the other site is his site. And by the looks of it he didn't start updating it until he got so insulted by us (me included I think) that started posting there what he was going to post here.

Puzz though is getting attacked rather unjustly by too many junkies. Puzz please come back!

[Grifman]

Monsta, you keep saying DD is giving info on the game that is already available on the net - and I say you don't have any idea what you are talking about. He's currently giving an in depth description of his Engliah campaign, just started a Byzantine campaign, and plans to start a Muslim campaign. I've seen stuff I've not seen on the web, and I've read most previews. He's got stuff on how heirs work, how vices and virtues work, how crusades work, how mercenaries are hired, etc. Detail stuff that is not would not be covered in a preview type article.

Of course ad hominen attacks are much easier than going with the facts . . .

Grifman

[barocca]

knowledge is power, and power begets groupies http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Grifman]

Ignorance is bliss, and some people are in heaven.

(Two can play the witty aphorism game . . . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )

Grifman

[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 07-17-2002).]

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by RageMonsta:
Did he give anything that was not given elsewhere?

And the 'have no life' comment is justified when you read posts saying 'where has D D gone he was the best'...really.

He wasnt insulted...infact he opened his mouth first...maybe I insulted him...dunno.

And think of it this way..how many from here would have bothered the visits 'gods' web page if he had not gained a splattering of 'groupies' who he fed bits of a fix till they became addicted to his wares?

'Dear Org..i the freeleance writer will grant you a review of the forthcoming game...your hard work will be rewarded by my exclusive review and your patrons will orgasm at the revelations i will deliver to them...btw...you can also read it at gamesdomain..oh....and after hmmm at least 300 hours of non stop play i have found not one simgle fault with the game..it is perfection beyond measure....so your exclusive review will contain info already available but unlike those mere mortals i will post some threads in your forum and seem almost human...'

I am begining to enjoy this..hope he comes back!...but 'does a dead bird fall out of the nest'?[/QUOTE]

I think you will find he was a writer at Gamesdomain and that he has recently been made redundant.

Also by his posts he has badly injured his back which along with redundancy would make him rather irratable.

So given more time and not tied to Gamesdomain he was hoping to give us a preview of MTW.

This was misconstrued as a marketing ploy from CA. Given CA's past record I don't think they could mastermind that level of marketing slight of hand (CA developers are great at battlefield Tactics but CA marketing hasn't been upto the same level).

Now after being insulted and insultive D_D is now posting the review at his own site.


Puzz3D and a few of us are not happy with the changes made in MTW by CA. I think it was wrong of us to insult D_D, just as I think it was wrong of D_D to insult us. Kids in sandpits throwing sand end up with saw eyes.

Now the mature thing to do would be to shake hands and agree to disagree.

Now for the rest of you guys jumping up and down on Puzz3D back off or I will get sardonic with you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif. Because if MTW does need tweaking we will need the likes of Puzz3D to do this for us.

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Grifman:
Ignorance is bliss, and some people are in heaven.

(Two can play the witty aphorism game . . . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )

Grifman

[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 07-17-2002).][/QUOTE]

&

Quote Originally posted by Grifman:

I don't care who Putz is, there's no room for rudeness. Darkmor has been very open and forthcoming, answering questions, writing very long descriptions. Too bad some people haven't learned how to act like adults instead of children. Maybe Putz will grow up some day.
Grifman)[/QUOTE]

Well to help lift the veil of some of your ignorance Puzz3D (not Putz as you so rudely put it) is one of the leaders in helping with the game mechanics and getting the patches balanced. Also with your one eyed attitude you glibly skimmed over the fact that they were niggling each other. It wasn't as if D_D was a damsel in distress and Puzz3D was a troll.

Both D_D and Puzz3D are worthwhile contributors. Both of them flew off the handle. And both of them have gone off to sulk.

Please try and be more courteous and less biased in your assessment of the situation.

[Nobunaga0611]

Seriously I haven't been around here even a fraction of the time as most of you, but I really didn't understand why people were starting to insult him, as well as Puzz. If someone has info on something, and its info that you want, why not listen to it? And yeah he may have said a thing or two to some people that didn't like it, but he was getting flak the whole time. Besides which, how many people in this very thread just insulted someone else, and got insulted, only to not take it seriously. But when he does it, its a big deal. Not really. Now who do we have around that actually has a beta version of the game to ask questions to? Not D_D, thats for sure. And I wanna know more! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[LittleGrizzly]

look as ive said in other posts and as said by umm 2 posts ago forgot who said it puzz does not deserve to be attacked but neither does darkmoor neither off them should off.

i really like yuuki or as he's more commanly known puzz hes a helpful friendly person devoted to the total war seris and improving it but still can not understand y he insulted him but anyone who insults puzz on this forum i dont like.

in conclusion yes, he insulted darkmoor but no he doesnt deserve to be insulted im annoyed as anyone but will not insult him as he has done much for community!

[Aelfred Magna]

I for one am a relative newbie to the forums dedicated to M:TW . . . however, once I discovered the .org, the main reason I came here was to find out details about the game which I did not already know, and could not discover anywhere else (reviews, etc.) The main source of such information, thus far, has been D_D, and now in order to find that information I've been going to his site (although, of course, I'm still coming here because the .org still has a lot to offer. I was out of town the day this whole thing blew up, but the one thing I'd like to point out is that, on the issue D_D got flamed the most over (both here and at the .com) - that is, the issue of seasons vs. years, he DID say, at the very start of his analysis of this issue, that he WAS IN FAVOR OF SEASONAL TURNS and felt that the way CA made MTW was a step backwards (not the actions one would expect from a member of CA's marketing team) . . . only then did he go on to explain why the game was still a step up from anything else out there, and why those who simply adopted the attitude of "no seasons, then I'm not gonna buy the game" were speaking too soon. I think the .org has lost a very valuable resource, and that we (collectively - including myself - as I blame everybody who took part in what became a petty squabble over an aspect of the game that ain't gonna change at this point) have only managed to discredit the .org and the community as a whole. We seem to forget, I think, that we've harried, insulted, and ultimately chased off the only person here (at least as far as I know) who has had any exposure AT ALL to the full version of the game. Sure I can understand why he's biased in favor of it . . . HE'S PLAYED IT!!!

Can any of the rest of us say the same thing? If there's any who can, please step up and share your experiences with those of us who would like to know more about the game (if you aren't afraid of getting flamed off the stage, after what we've done over the last couple days). Otherwise, give the guy a break!

[mizuYari]

OK, lynch mob is over or is it not?

Let's close this thread http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

"To speak up is to admit ignorant." -- Lao-Tzu said.

"I wish I am as ignorant as Lao-Tzu" -- MizuYari said.

[Erado San]

Taking the words right out of my mouth, Yari.

We know where everybody stands now. Whether this was all necessary, well, you can decide that for yourself.

Let's get on with things.

Furthermore: To Puzz and Darkmoor both: Feel free to stay away from the .org if that's how you feel. I think it's overreacting though, even though I can understand it. I'd like to keep both of you around, for your contributions are considered valuable to this community by the vast majority here.

Chill out and Have Fun!

Closed.

[Grifman]

Quote Originally posted by Papewaio: Well to help lift the veil of some of your ignorance Puzz3D (not Putz as you so rudely put it) is one of the leaders in helping with the game mechanics and getting the patches balanced.[/QUOTE]

Ah, you presume too much - I already knew of Puzz's contributions - which are frankly irrelevant. His contributions towards the game do not in any way serve to excuse or justify his actions. I really don't care what he has done if he is acting rudely. So perhaps you shouldn't assume what I know or do not know http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Quote Also with your one eyed attitude you glibly skimmed over the fact that they were niggling each other. It wasn't as if D_D was a damsel in distress and Puzz3D was a troll.[/QUOTE]

Again, how do you know I gibly skimmed over anything? Reading my mind? Stalking me on the web seeing what posts I read? I just called it as I saw it - you may disagree with my assessment, but don't presume to read my mind - or know how many eyes I have http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.

Quote
Please try and be more courteous and less biased in your assessment of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Ah, have you called for Puzz to be courteous? Perhaps I missed that post. When Puzz acts like an adult, I will be glad to treat him like an adult.

Grifman