PAKISTAN: Enough is Enough !

[Shahed]

I really don't have much to say about this but am very frustrated that the "government" is still unable to control the country and cannot even enforce the law. Religious extremists are defying federal authority across the country, even inside the capital itself, abducting people who they claim are "immoral". Holding so called Islamic trials. They are taking the law into their own hands. They hope for a Taliban state.

The long term solution is education. The religious school system was supposed to have been cleared of extremists, what a joke. It is the law that you cannot preach religious extremism, so go and enforce the damm law. In the short term the military has to crack down hard, the situation is completely out of hand.

The law has to be enforced, by all means necessary.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6264338.stm

[Petrus]

I suppose this needs confirmation, but it looks like it's even funnier :

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSISL18833720070703


Call for suicide attacks issued at Pakistani mosque

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Radical Islamists inside a mosque surrounded by Pakistani
security forces issued a call over a loudspeaker on Tuesday for their followers
to begin suicide bomb attacks.

Gunfire had erupted earlier following clashes between paramilitary troops
and students at Lal Masjid, or Red Mosque, in the capital Islamabad. One
trooper was killed and two students died later from wounds.

"We had asked to stop the firing 10 minutes ago, but as the firing continues
we are calling for suicide attacks," said the message broadcast from inside
the mosque's compound.

[HoreTore]

That's whats called the beginning of a revolution/civil war.

Anyway, I can't say that I support the current dictator with a straight face. That people want him overthrown is no surprise.

[Sir Moody]

true but the problem is they seemto want to put an even more fundamental state in its place :dizzy2:

[English assassin]

Sorry to sound world weary, but the fact that nuclear state Pakistan has a SERIOUS issue with religious extremists isn't news?

People fixate on Iran or Afghanistan, but this is the one that should make you fill your trousers.

Heaven knows what the asnwer is to this one. AFAIK Pakistanis really don't have any very legitimate reason to be annoyed with the west (Iran, I cut a bit of slack over the Iran Iraq war and Operation Ajax, Afghanistan is just a basket case and has been for centuries, but Pakistan? Beats me. I'm willing to be reminded if I have forgotten anything.)

[InsaneApache]

Kashmir. It's all the UK's fault.

[Louis VI the Fat]

but Pakistan? Beats me. Tsk, EA. Pakistan is in the frontline of the global war against Islam. India fights the Muslims in Kashmir, and brutaly represses its own 200 million Mulsims at home, the Americans have started the encirclement in Afghanistan and will attack Iran soon to complete it. Meanwhile, that covert kaffir Musharaf is a puppet of the Americans, destroying Pakistan from the inside out, and selling out to the Americans all those that are willing to withstand the Great Satan. The little Satan, the former oppressor, the weak and morally bankrupt Britain, feels fit to insult its Asian Muslims at home. For this they must pay.

That Pakistan, a devout Muslim nation, is witheld the worldly riches it deserves for being such a devout nation, is unbearable. This zionist grip on the world, of which Palestine is only the physical expression, must be broken. May Allah bring death and destruction on them and their servants for seven generations!

[English assassin]

Tsk, EA. Pakistan is in the frontline of the global war against Islam. India fights the Muslims in Kashmir, and brutaly represses its own 200 million Mulsims at home, the Americans have started the encirclement in Afghanistan and will attack Iran soon to complete it. Meanwhile, that covert kaffir Musharaf is a puppet of the Americans, destroying Pakistan from the inside out, and selling out to the Americans all those that are willing to withstand the Great Satan. The little Satan, the former oppressor, the weak and morally bankrupt Britain, feels fit to insult its Asian Muslims at home. For this they must pay.

That Pakistan, a devout Muslim nation, is witheld the worldly riches it deserves for being such a devout nation, is unbearable. This zionist grip on the world, of which Palestine is only the physical expression, must be broken. May Allah bring death and destruction on them and their servants for seven generations!


Yeah...I guess.

Oh, what the hell, where is Curtis LeMay when you need him?

[Tristuskhan]

Tsk, EA. Pakistan is in the frontline of the global war against Islam. India fights the Muslims in Kashmir, and brutaly represses its own 200 million Mulsims at home, the Americans have started the encirclement in Afghanistan and will attack Iran soon to complete it. Meanwhile, that covert kaffir Musharaf is a puppet of the Americans, destroying Pakistan from the inside out, and selling out to the Americans all those that are willing to withstand the Great Satan. The little Satan, the former oppressor, the weak and morally bankrupt Britain, feels fit to insult its Asian Muslims at home. For this they must pay.

That Pakistan, a devout Muslim nation, is witheld the worldly riches it deserves for being such a devout nation, is unbearable. This zionist grip on the world, of which Palestine is only the physical expression, must be broken. May Allah bring death and destruction on them and their servants for seven generations!

Obviously logical enough for an illiterate Pakistani, alas!

[doc_bean]

This isn't exactly new to me. The war between the 'Red Mosque' and the government has been going on for at least a few months now.

[PanzerJaeger]

Tsk, EA. Pakistan is in the frontline of the global war against Islam. India fights the Muslims in Kashmir, and brutaly represses its own 200 million Mulsims at home, the Americans have started the encirclement in Afghanistan and will attack Iran soon to complete it. Meanwhile, that covert kaffir Musharaf is a puppet of the Americans, destroying Pakistan from the inside out, and selling out to the Americans all those that are willing to withstand the Great Satan. The little Satan, the former oppressor, the weak and morally bankrupt Britain, feels fit to insult its Asian Muslims at home. For this they must pay.

That Pakistan, a devout Muslim nation, is witheld the worldly riches it deserves for being such a devout nation, is unbearable. This zionist grip on the world, of which Palestine is only the physical expression, must be broken. May Allah bring death and destruction on them and their servants for seven generations!


Well done. How many mosques have those very words been spoken in around the world? :no:

[Navaros]

true but the problem is they seemto want to put an even more fundamental state in its place :dizzy2:

Why is that a problem? :dizzy2:

If those in power in Pakistan weren't trying to impose immorality on it's society, then the devout Muslims in Pakistan wouldn't have any reason to be upset.

I recall some months ago articles being posted about changes in Pakistan laws that are starting to lead it to become a "free sex" society which is something that is against Muslim values, and rightly so. Things like this inspire moral men to rise up and take a stand for their morality and keep their society dignified, which is admirable of them.

The problem actually lays squarely with the powers that be of Pakistan trying to turn Pakistan into a carbon copy of "Western society", aka an immoral cesspool.

[Tribesman]

I really don't have much to say about this but am very frustrated that the "government" is still unable to control the country and cannot even enforce the law.
Still unable ? I has never been able and will never be able , neither has any of the regimes or empires that came before it .

The law has to be enforced, by all means necessary.

Due to the multi faceted nature of Pakistans problems , and the fractured loyalties of its military and politicians , by all means necessary do you mean that Pakistan should nuke itself ?


That's whats called the beginning of a revolution/civil war.

To add to the already existing civil wars in the country .


Anyhow ,time for some refreshments , a slice of fruitcake anyone ?


I recall some months ago articles being posted about changes in Pakistan laws that are starting to lead it to become a "free sex" society which is something that is against Muslim values, and rightly so. Things like this inspire moral men to rise up and take a stand for their morality and keep their society dignified, which is admirable of them.


Now then Navaros , give us a good laugh .
Which laws regarding "sex" were being changed .

[PanzerJaeger]

I recall some months ago articles being posted about changes in Pakistan laws that are starting to lead it to become a "free sex" society which is something that is against Muslim values, and rightly so. Things like this inspire moral men to rise up and take a stand for their morality and keep their society dignified, which is admirable of them.



Hell ya! Moral muslims around the world should stand up for their rights to beat, circumcise, torture, and kill their women whenever they feel the need!

Honestly, do the teachings of Jesus in which you believe so strongly support burying a woman alive for being raped?

I get the whole "all religions must come together to fight secularism" crap, but are these the type of people you want to reach out to and support?

EDIT: Removed execution picture. BG

[Geoffrey S]

It reminds me of Iran before the revolution, only this time with nukes.

[Ice]

It reminds me of Iran before the revolution, only this time with nukes.

Is anyone else worried this country has nuclear weapons?

[Tribesman]

Is anyone else worried this country has nuclear weapons?well obviously , especially with the current governments record on proliferation and support of terrorism .
But hey they are allies now and get lots of nice military aid to keep the locals down , the funny thing is though that keeping the locals down tends to upset the locals ever so slightly and they get up in larger numbers .

[Watchman]

Aren't the northen mountains on the border of Afghanistan (which if I understand correctly is a formality the locals pay no heed to) pretty much a cult haven ? I saw it mentioned somewhere the Wahhabis managed to establish an outlier there way back in the early 1800s before the Ottomans stamped them flat back home in Arabia, and that eventually developed into what spawned the Taleban and such.

And mountain tribes were never easy for anyone to rule at the best of times.

[Shaka_Khan]

Unfortunately, the more countries that we try to attack or be allies with, the more enemies we make.

[Del Arroyo]

The Saudi, Salafist approach to morals is wrong, wrong, and a thousand times wrong. God willing it will be eliminated off the face of this earth. I for one am willing to die fighting it.

As long as they stay out of the Americas, though, we will have someplace to come home to. The Salafi organizations currently in the US are passive enough for the moment, and can be tolerated as long as they stay that way. If they try to start a Jihad over here, rest assured that folks over here will finish it.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I read a BBC article predicting Musharrif will get more public support for cracking down on the Red Mosque. Hopefully, after this confrontation is over, he can get rid of other pockets of extremism.

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Unless and until Pakistan/Afghanistan and other like locales choose to eschew warlordism/tribalism, such problems will continue.

Tribes:

Can you suggest a strategy that might work better? You clearly are saying that our support of the current dictator who is oppressing folks is likely to degenerate and backfire on us (which I admit is a significant possibility). Failure to support such a leader, however, guarantees such a possibility. So where is our "better option?" I do not detect any popular opposition movements led by any Gandhi-like or King-like leaders who would represent a true change. Am I missing someone?

[Tribesman]

I read a BBC article predicting Musharrif will get more public support for cracking down on the Red Mosque. Hopefully, after this confrontation is over, he can get rid of other pockets of extremism.

You miss the complications entirely Rabbit , it is not popular support that keeps him in power so much as the support he has from the extremists in the army and intelligence branches , they brought him to power and they can kick him out again . Thats why his window dreesing attempts in waziristan came to nothing and he dare not do anything at all about Jammu and Kashmir .
He may well be a puppet dictator but there are many different people pulling the strings .

[Tribesman]

Seamus , just read your post . I can't reply now as it will be a long and complicated one and I am very drunk .
Wil attempt it tomorrow .

[Pannonian]

Unless and until Pakistan/Afghanistan and other like locales choose to eschew warlordism/tribalism, such problems will continue.

Tribes:

Can you suggest a strategy that might work better? You clearly are saying that our support of the current dictator who is oppressing folks is likely to degenerate and backfire on us (which I admit is a significant possibility). Failure to support such a leader, however, guarantees such a possibility. So where is our "better option?" I do not detect any popular opposition movements led by any Gandhi-like or King-like leaders who would represent a true change. Am I missing someone?
There's a chap with a tribal background (Pathan), was born into the ruling class, and is a devout Muslim. He also has a pro-western outlook, being Oxford-educated and an ardent Anglophile. Unfortunately, unlike Ranjitsinhji, Imran Khan has shown no sign of making it big in politics, though we can always hope.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Seamus , just read your post . I can't reply now as it will be a long and complicated one and I am very drunk .
Wil attempt it tomorrow .

Fair enough. Enjoy your drunk. Back in my drinking days, I used to have a bit of a lark by laying down, watching the room spin, and then mentally concentrating to make the spin go the other direction. Good fun.

[lars573]

Is anyone else worried this country has nuclear weapons?
Why would I (or you) be? They are all short range and pointed at India. Add in that while India could turn Pakistan into a glowing crater, Pakistan can't respond in kind. I've seen a diagram, from a Nat-Geo article about India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir, of the nuke coverage of both nations (in short they can both lay waste an area about the size of Pakistan). India can exterminate Pakistan if it choose to. No MAD in their case, just PAD (Pakistan's assured destruction).

Now before you say it I will.

But what if an Iranian style revolution happens, and a group of radical Muslims end up with their fingers on a nuclear trigger?
To that I say. Do you really think India will let that happen? As they would probably be on the recieving end of many bad tidings that an Islamic revolution in Pakistan would produce.