Year based turns are cool!

[Dom]

Well, I seen all the fuss around this topic and do not want to dig up old threads, however I think that they just might get it right on this one.

When I was designing my campaign, I came across the same dilemma - setting the basic time unit. And I haven't heard of the CA plans back then.

It was, for however short, working fine. I do not know how CA will make it but what we had was a situation where the Damio sets the set of commands for the upcoming year and then these commands are played out against those set by another damio.

This way allowed IMPROVED strategic thinking and the nessesity for tying up the troops on the defensive duties was much greater plus the unpredictability of the opponents actions. Therefore offensive was quite risky, but if timed properly, it brought success. (To Blue Side http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif unfortunately )

Shoggy just doesn't have that realistic touch about its campaign. It is sad, but no matter how many times I won the campaign, and no matter how many ways I tried to play it, it all was the same. Military campaigning was unreasonably dull, (admittedly very well compensated by the battles)

What made shoggy replayable - maps and different start points, plus some special provinces and the urge to get yourself a general of the highest honour possible.

IMHO, turns in MTW are going to be NOTHING like the turns that we got used to in STW. The ammount of info from CA is appalingly little, but nevertheless lets wait and see what comes out of it, alright?

Regards. Ryurik

[A Nerd]

I strongly feel, and wish that the turns took less time...mainly because in the original STW some of the fun was gaining honor for your generals primarely, but also for ninja and the like...now, seeing that the sequel will deal with vices and virtures and game pieces that think far more for themselves than any of our samurai did, I think it is a shame to waste thier lives and abilitites with such short years...I would love to have a 32 victory general and bring him up to 64...I would love to make him a saint or a devil at the same time...however, if while Im doing this I click and click and clilck to build a castle and I find 50 years have passed and the chap is dead...I will become somewhat discouraged...adding to my own set of vices...which isn't as much fun...

[Dom]

Well, DD has posted somewhere that it takes you about 20-40 minutes to go through ONE years preparation. So you will not be (hopefuly) click-building castles, instead you will be micromanaging your resources and men as a true general should.

Ryurik

[Mithrandir]

well ,there IS the option to autobuild buildings and troops so that should cut back a bit on the time...my only Q is ,what happens when the 400 year run out?

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Mithrandir Poster of usefull information and entertaining posts (http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/dl2/full.cgi?spamsong.wav)

[Dom]

Dunno... prolly some curtains will come down, some stats of your rule displayed, a few cannon salutes in your honour and..... an invitation to beat your record?

Regards, Ryurik

[Mithrandir]

hmm doesnt sound very inviting...but I started a new thread on this.

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[A Nerd]

He also said that a year takes so long because all the other factions have to make their moves...therefore in 400 years when the game had ended you've watched the other factions move and produce more than you have done yourself...I want every year to be nit picked and well thought out and I want four bloody seasons to do it! HA HA...now, also this will bring longevity to my kingdom and give my pieces longer lives so I can get to know and shape them more compasionately...making them more like living breathing people in a quasi real world that makes obious steps forward and specific advances depending on what I do...I feel they choices and advances in the game will pale if the important players are dying before there time./..

[Nobunaga0611]

I think that the generals don't actually die that quick. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the age of your king and heirs that progresses? I mean in Shogun, your generals could live the whole 120 years, or however long you played.

Quote Originally posted by Darkmoor_Dragon:
Kings/Generals. Kings and princes die - generals "dont". Yes they do die fairly frequently but this is a far more "dynastic" game than STW, its also one where your king is not a daimyo. You simply cannot have your king leading every battle for a number of reasons:

1) too many battles per turn
2) Take him too far from the homelands and you'll get a civil war
3) and conversely - you want him to die reasonably young so that his heirs are young enough to sire new heirs. (tactical/strategic useage of marriages and your heirs is important)

[/QUOTE]

So I believe he meant that yeah, your generals can be killed obviously, but they don't die because of age. That at least is a very good thing.

[This message has been edited by Nobunaga0611 (edited 07-18-2002).]

[Kraxis]

I copied this from the .com when I asked him there if people wouldn't die off too soon:

Quote In my last game Prince John died at 101 - he had won around 47 battles, was utterly dreaded and had more vices than you can probably think of, let alone name.

His "brothers" - who weren't in line for inheritence also become "royal blood" generals don't forget - and unless you assassinate them (or they get killed) they don't die off (they're considered a royal line and may well raise their ugly heds in a civil war or such - but they dont die off as they are a "family line" - same with normal generals but without the royal links [unless you marry a daughter to one])

So this whole "theme" of "Oh my god they only live 20 years and they never get to fight" is simply misinformation and assumption.[/QUOTE]

The middle paragraph is just something I though was worth having in, not really related to the issue.
So we can make some generals/heirs/kings/sultans really evil.
So while it might not be like in Shogun where I managed to get Kenshin up to 122 (was gunning for the elusive Rank 8) we can still get some fun out of them.

[This message has been edited by Kraxis (edited 07-18-2002).]

[Rokkaku]

well, I got shingen to rank 9, I wish I could remember what it says, or was it rank eight...

[A Nerd]

That is indeed impressive...rank 9...still I would prefer my soldiers and generals aging like the family line as long as the years were shortened...seasons or months...if not I cannot complain...

[Kraxis]

Well it was Rank 8 since there wasn't a Rank 9, the game stopped recording wins at 255 wins. And you need 256 wins to get Rank 9.

It says that this general is the equal of Sun Tzu, something along that line.

[Black Douglas I]

I don't think yearly turns will turn out too bad providing you can move more than 1 province. For example in your own territory you should be able to move several provinces a turn. It shouldn't take 5 or 6 years to travel across your land, that really will age your generals.

Does anybody know if CA have changed the 1 province move a turn thing?????

[Dom]

Well, I see that the core of the argument for the season-based turns is the ability of adding qualities to your general.

To this I can only say that CA promised a lot of character management with impressive depth on the subject, so this should not really be a problem.

Trying to get as high rank as possible for your damio can be fun, but I can live without it

Anything else?

Regards, Ryurik