View Full Version : Michael Moore loses it and attacks CNN
Gawain of Orkeny
07-13-2007, 02:35
This guy just cant take criticism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKoN40K7mA)
O'Reilly to M. Moore: Try That With Me, Traitor; CNN... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5m0WPC_Sg4)
Bill O'Reilly and Michael Moore. Now that would be worth watching, especially if they were given chainsaws. I wonder which man would be the bigger coward? Hard to say.
Why you hate Michael Moore?
GeneralHankerchief
07-13-2007, 03:06
Why you hate Michael Moore?
Why do you hate freedom?
Bill O'Reilly and Michael Moore. Now that would be worth watching, especially if they were given chainsaws. I wonder which man would be the bigger coward? Hard to say.
They "debated" around the last presidential election iirc- no chainsaws though. :shame:
As I remember it, it was disappointing all around with both looking, unsurprisingly, like twits.
I hate that Fox news guy just as much as I hate Moore, damn right-wing facisimmo. That guy infuriates me all those things he mentioned are basic human rights, but a government should be centralist, with aspects of the right and left not purely one side or the other.
Why do you hate freedom?
Because I suffer from Boredom.
Gawain of Orkeny
07-13-2007, 05:03
I hate that Fox news guy just as much as I hate Moore, damn right-wing facisimmo. That guy infuriates me all those things he mentioned are basic human rights,
You hate most Americans then. Bill is a bit rightwing but hes far from some right wing nut job. I would imagine he pretty much represents whats the opinion of most Americans on this matter. We dont want it thank you very much.
We dont want it thank you very much.
Then I respect your opinion(s).
But it's ridiculous to claim that passing public health will lead to more Socialist measures, that's just propaganda scare tactics. Personally I like the dodgy system we have here. The Public Health doesn't cover everything, but it makes it a lot less. Like when I bought glasses I saved AU$150 of AU$700; or when I go to the dentist save AU$75-100 of AU$300-350; or when my mother had dental surgery she saved between AU$250-500 of AU$2000-2500. Here the government promotes getting Private Health Insurance as well, so if you combine the two you can save a fair amount of the costs.
You hate most Americans then. Bill is a bit rightwing but hes far from some right wing nut job. I would imagine he pretty much represents whats the opinion of most Americans on this matter. We dont want it thank you very much.
Gawain, if I ever catch you using the words "Bill O'Reilly," "represent" and "America" in the same sentence again, I'm going to wash your mouth out with soap.
Samurai Waki
07-13-2007, 07:10
Bill O'Reilly represents the vast Right Wing audience that watches Bill O'Reilly.
Gawain of Orkeny
07-13-2007, 07:16
Gawain, if I ever catch you using the words "Bill O'Reilly," "represent" and "America" in the same sentence again, I'm going to wash your mouth out with soap.
n. Bill is a bit rightwing but hes far from some right wing nut job. I would imagine he pretty much represents whats the opinion of most Americans on this matter. We dont want it thank you very much.:laugh4:
Ever hear his position on the war?
n. Bill is a bit rightwing but hes far from some right wing nut job. I would imagine he pretty much represents whats the opinion of most Americans on this matter. We dont want it thank you very much.:laugh4:
Ever hear his position on the war?
I'd definitely classify O'Reilly as more of a right of center populist. He calls himself a "traditionalist" which I suppose fits ok.
Regardless, he's no conservative. How can you tell? Because whenever he highlights a problem, he more often than not looks to the government and lawmakers to provide a fix via new legislation/regulation. Not a conservative trait.
He does have a huge audience, but I don't have much use for him. :shrug:
Adrian II
07-13-2007, 11:17
I haven't watched the clips and I don't care. I can guess what's happening. A debate about a different health care system in the U.S. is being killed by corporate media.
It's the same with Al Gore's views. The guy is ridiculed so the subject doesn't have to be discussed. Audiences fall for this every time. Good night.
AntiochusIII
07-13-2007, 12:28
I would imagine he pretty much represents whats the opinion of most Americans on this matter.Oh God, there's a living Bill O RLY fan. Next you'll tell me you agree with Ann Coulter, right, right!?
*scarred for life*
I like my nanny state. :shrug:
Also Adrian, this reminds me of Dr. Rath, here's a promo video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-Y73Xd4dbE&mode=related&search=) if you don't know him. Claims that we could cure cancer but the pharmaceutical companies keep people sick to earn more money, sounds somewhat similar to Michael Moore in some respects. Of course he is taken apart in the media and after a boy who he claimed to have healed died, there was more controvercy. I personally don't know who's right, I'm no expert on that topic, like usual, they both seem to have good points.:shrug:
KukriKhan
07-13-2007, 13:39
Anyone taking a shot at Wolf "I just read wut dey put in front of me" Blitzer, gets thumbs-up from me, even hysterical docu-dramatists.
And it's pretty funny seeing Fox showing CNN clips. Massive media conspiracy indeed.
There will be no change in the American health care system. If there will be it will be minor and petty.
Oh God, there's a living Bill O RLY fan. Next you'll tell me you agree with Ann Coulter, right, right!?
YA RLY!*
As for the censored censor that is Coulter, I simply ignore her, same with Michael Moore. I can't stand to listen to people like that, where the message might be something I even agree with, but it's delivered in such a condescending, rude, sensationalist, idiotic manner that it's not worth the time and brain cells it'd take to listen to them. Indeed half the message is not just the content but the context in which it's delivered, which more than a few people here in the backroom could stand to learn a lesson on that.
:balloon2:
* I don't watch Willyburger's show, just jumped at the joke. :beam:
Gawain of Orkeny
07-13-2007, 15:19
Oh God, there's a living Bill O RLY fan. Next you'll tell me you agree with Ann Coulter, right, right!?
Im not an O'Reilly fan. Hes too far left for me.
I'd definitely classify O'Reilly as more of a right of center populist. He calls himself a "traditionalist" which I suppose fits ok.
Yup and Im not saying he echoes most people on everything but he does on this topic.
Don Corleone
07-13-2007, 15:26
Adrian, you might have a point about stifling debate, but isn't Michael Moore himself doing the same thing? Why do we have to have one of two options forced upon us? Germany and Japan employ a system that offers some state support but could not be considered a true 'universal health care' in the British or French sense. Why aren't we allowed to consider option "C"?
Whenever he highlights a problem, he more often than not looks to the government and lawmakers to provide a fix via new legislation/regulation. Not a conservative trait.
Which "conservatives" are we talking about here? 'Cause the ones I know all love their big-government debt machine, just so long as they're in charge. Reagan? Big government spending. Bush I? Big government spending. Bush II? Biggest government spending of all time.
Who are these "conservatives" you speak of, and where do we find them?
Don Corleone
07-13-2007, 16:00
Who are these "conservatives" you speak of, and where do we find them?
~:wave:
Gawain of Orkeny
07-13-2007, 18:05
Reagan? Big government spending.
Brought on by the democratic congress. in order to fund his military projects he had to agree to huge pork barrel projects. And still managed to bring the economy back.
Originally Posted by Lemur
Who are these "conservatives" you speak of, and where do we find them?::holiday2:
Im not an O'Reilly fan. Hes too far left for me.
Now that's a new one.
Cataphract_Of_The_City
07-13-2007, 19:46
If O' Reilly represents America all I have to say is: "Nice meeting you, see you on the other side".
It's the same with Al Gore's views. The guy is ridiculed so the subject doesn't have to be discussed. Audiences fall for this every time. Good night.
Moore and Gore only have themselves to blame. When reality of the situation isn't sexy enough or scary enough they simply resort to distortion, exaggeration and outright lies. I don't think either of them are interested in a dialogue- they're trying to force everyone to their position with intimidation and scare tactics.
I haven't watched the clips and I don't care. I can guess what's happening. A debate about a different health care system in the U.S. is being killed by corporate media.You might be surprised then. In the CNN clip, it's nothing but Moore blathering on with disjointed points in inane babble- generally sounding like the lunatic he is.
PanzerJaeger
07-13-2007, 20:27
I haven't watched the clips and I don't care.
I can't be bothered to familiarize myself with the subject of the discussion, but I'll do you a favor and tell you whats really going on anyway.
~:rolleyes:
Gregoshi
07-13-2007, 20:36
Moore, Gore, O'Reilly, Rush, etc are messengers bigger than the message, which is a shame when they have a worthwhile message. Their snotty, know-it-all and condesending personalities overshadow and destroy the validity of the message.
Adrian II
07-13-2007, 20:37
I can't be bothered to familiarize myself with the subject of the discussion, but I'll do you a favor and tell you whats really going on anyway.
~:rolleyes:No, I made an educated guess. So far nothing has belied my guess. It's all about that horrible slob with the five o 'clock shade and his antagonists Mr B. and Mr O', not about the subject of his movie (which I have seen).
So there, you young whippersnapper. :yes:
Don Corleone
07-13-2007, 20:54
No, I made an educated guess. So far nothing has belied my guess. It's all about that horrible slob with the five o 'clock shade and his antagonists Mr B. and Mr O', not about the subject of his movie (which I have seen).
So there, you young whippersnapper. :yes:
Actually, Dr. Gupta was making the point that Moore had made a good movie and he didn't need to resort to the hyperbole, exaggeration and unsupported assertions he engaged in. He's right. Moore is right, we have a big mess with our health care system. But why does it have to be black and white? Why is that Moore and others get to frame the discussion as "if you agree the US health care system isn't optimized, then you must agree to immediately enact full universal health care with complete government oversight"? And yes, that is the way he's framing the discussion. No discussion of in-between answers. Where's Germany and Italy or other countries that have achieved great results with something less than a complete government takeover?
PanzerJaeger
07-13-2007, 21:29
No, I made an educated guess. So far nothing has belied my guess. It's all about that horrible slob with the five o 'clock shade and his antagonists Mr B. and Mr O', not about the subject of his movie (which I have seen).
So there, you young whippersnapper. :yes:
I never said you weren't a good guesser. :beam:
Gawain of Orkeny
07-13-2007, 22:52
No, I made an educated guess. So far nothing has belied my guess.
If you bothered watching the clip it would.
So there, you young whippersnapper. :beam:
Geoffrey S
07-14-2007, 00:33
Nope, he agrees with what the clip shows: that the hyperbole damages the debate, and that people like Moore and O'Reilly aren't helping one bit. A good guess indeed.
Adrian II
07-14-2007, 15:39
Nope, he agrees with what the clip shows: that the hyperbole damages the debate, and that people like Moore and O'Reilly aren't helping one bit. A good guess indeed.Yeah, the way in which so many political topics are narrowed down to personality clashes in today's mainstream media really annoys me. On the substance, the funny thing is I tend to agree (as a non-American outsider, let it be said) more or less with Michael Moore despite his whining and hypocrisy. And his movies are very well made, it has to be said. Whereas I disagree strongly with Al Gore because he is a demagogue who gets his facts wrong, not because he built a 200 gallon jacuzzi for his dog or whatever the indictment was. And by the way Gore's movie sucks horribly. Yikes, what a waste of time that was - if it hadn't been my job to cover it, I would have walked off after ten minutes and left Mr Gore (who was present at the Dutch premier) standing there.
Goofball
07-16-2007, 15:53
Cool, this thread has a little bit of everything in it: healthcare, conservatism, Reagan saving the economy, MM, Bill O'Idiot...
Just the kind of "sampler" thread I needed to get my feet wet again after being away for so long.
Thanks guys...
:coffeenews:
Banquo's Ghost
07-16-2007, 15:58
Just the kind of "sampler" thread I needed to get my feet wet again after being away for so long.
You've been missed. Welcome back. ~:wave:
PanzerJaeger
07-16-2007, 17:44
You've been missed. Welcome back. ~:wave:
Most definitely. ~:cheers:
Kommodus
07-16-2007, 18:00
Meh. I read CNN's response to Michael Moore's attacks, and it looks like they were just quibbling about some details. CNN by-and-large agreed with Moore's chief points; they just criticized him for fudging a few facts (which didn't even have much bearing on his arguments anyway).
Having not seen SiCKO, I can't really comment on it - but with regard to the general notion of implementing public health care in the US, I think most Americans, on some level, would like to see it happen. The real question isn't if, but how - we want to see it done right.
For example, points commonly made against public health care include:
1. Cost in taxes
In countries with public health care, taxes are much higher than they are in the US, and many Americans don't like the idea of giving more of their money to the government. But remember that currently, our employers pay a lot for our health care coverage and would be able to increase wages if they didn't have to. The facts are clear: Americans currently pay much more per person than most for health care, one way or another.
2. Decrease in quality
Free-market competition is known to increase the quality of goods and services, and Americans are proud of their high-quality (if expensive) health care. I think that this concern is valid, but not overwhelming - many western countries with public health care retain high-quality service. I would be willing to accept a small decrease in quality if it meant my poorer friends and neighbors could get easy access to the life-saving treatments they need.
3. Increase in wait times
Americans hear some complaints coming from Canada concerning long wait times, sometimes in dire circumstances. This concern, however, is normally based on anecdotal evidence rather that statistics, and tends to be emotional in nature. Ultimately, this is not an argument against public health care, but against poorly administered health care - the important thing is to do it right, ensuring that wait times do not become excessive.
I know the issue is complex, and I'm certainly no expert, but I think that on this issue Michael Moore is largely correct. His methods may be offensive to some, but that shouldn't prevent us from addressing the issue logically.
KafirChobee
07-17-2007, 06:01
In 1948, Truman promised healthcare for all Americans on an ability to pay and that all would be covered. His do nothing Republican congress not only stopped it, but accused Truman of being a Commy (or Socialist sypathyser at best).
Since then the subject has been breached and rejected by congress and/or a preisdent a couple times. To compensate for the lack of balls by congress a few Prezs' have been inventive enough to exclude the "all" idea and concentrate on specific categories that congress couldn't denie aid to. Ergo, we got Medicare, Medicaid, and a few things for kids ('til Reagone - who considered ketchup a vegetable, and that poor kids shouldn't get a free breakfast or lunch. Then again, what would one expect from such a man? Ask me, and I will tell. Reagon's childhood was not idealic).
Historically as a nation the USA (the wealthy) always depended on the charity of its villages to take care of their less fortunate - and to some part they did. I recall a story from my maternal-grandmother how (during the great depression) she wrapped a hambone in newspaper and put in the garbage knowing an old couple would come down their alley and find it - she said they were all but in tears for finding it. They could make a soup.
Deal is, if a person is attacking Moore just to attack the ideas he suggest? What is their real purpose? Keep it the same as 1948?
I'm just glad that El Presidente is protecting me from efficient systems that ensure health coverage for children. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/14/AR2007071401000.html) You can't object to this program's effectiveness, so we'll just have to kill it on ideological grounds (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070710-6.html).
[S-CHIP is] now aiming at encouraging more people to get on government health care. That’s what that is. It’s a way to encourage people to transfer from the private sector to government health care plans…. I strongly object to the government providing incentives for people to leave private medicine, private health care to the public sector. […]
I mean, think of it this way: They’re going to increase the number of folks eligible through S-CHIP; some want to lower the age for Medicare. And then all of a sudden, you begin to see a — I wouldn’t call it a plot, just a strategy — (laughter) — to get more people to be a part of a federalization of health care.
So, no new money for kids on S-CHIP. But we have some spare change to send to Pakistan's tribal areas (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/15/business/tribal.php). Aid, don't'cha know.
As irritating as I find Michael Moore, I hope his polemic inspires some sort of change in my country.
Privateerkev
07-17-2007, 15:34
While Moore is far from the perfect messenger for this particular message, I thought his movie was well done and thought provoking. And CNN had Gupta put out, what I thought was, a hit-piece. The cynic in me suspects it might have something to do with all of the Big-Pharma ads on CNN (I leave CNN on as background all day and Pharma ads seem to be the majority of commericials.)
As for health care, I think we are simply a better society if we make sure that everyone has access to high quality health care. Not only is it more humane in my opinion, it is actually cheaper in the long run. Even big business is turning on the health insurance industry and preparing to throw them under the bus.
ajaxfetish
07-17-2007, 18:09
This is still my favorite live criticism of CNN.
John Stewart on Crossfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE)
Ajax
Privateerkev
07-18-2007, 04:48
This is still my favorite live criticism of CNN.
John Stewart on Crossfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE)
Ajax
And they swear that had nothing to do with Tucker being fired and Crossfire being canceled.
I hate Michael Moore
I hate Wolf Blitzer
I hate O'reilly
But they do give out a lot of free hot air. Thats gotta mean something.
This is still my favorite live criticism of CNN.
John Stewart on Crossfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE)
Ajax
I love that video...
talk about pwnage! :laugh4:
Don Corleone
07-18-2007, 14:02
While Moore is far from the perfect messenger for this particular message, I thought his movie was well done and thought provoking. And CNN had Gupta put out, what I thought was, a hit-piece. The cynic in me suspects it might have something to do with all of the Big-Pharma ads on CNN (I leave CNN on as background all day and Pharma ads seem to be the majority of commericials.)
As for health care, I think we are simply a better society if we make sure that everyone has access to high quality health care. Not only is it more humane in my opinion, it is actually cheaper in the long run. Even big business is turning on the health insurance industry and preparing to throw them under the bus.
How is "He's 90% right, and he's correct in the general sense that something needs to be done" a hit piece?
Gregoshi
07-19-2007, 03:01
I hate Michael Moore
I hate Wolf Blitzer
I hate O'reilly
But they do give out a lot of free hot air. Thats gotta mean something.
There's the real cause of global warming.
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