View Full Version : Concerning the Pope
I have been wondering how the Pope will play in the game...now correct me if I am wrong, but if you play as the HRE is the Pope your king? If they Pope tells you to do something like stop fighting, do you have to listen? What happens if you are excommunicated? Why can't you bribe or attempt to assasinate the Pope? A dreadful king shouldn't find folly in this. Does the pope issue commands to muslim nations? Is there some key religious figure that can reighn supreme over muslim factions? And how about the Orthodox? Do they have to listen to the Pope? Emmmmmmm Popes are funnny.....
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 04:44
The Pope is a part of the Papal States faction. They are non-playable. Orthodox Christians cannot call for a Crusade. If you conquer the Papal States, you can appoint a puupet Pope. Muslims call on Jihads. If you don't cooperate with the pope, he may excommunicate you or even call a Crusade on you! If you do cooperate, he'll grant you more influence or even, after a Crusade, a "free" province.
[This message has been edited by Emp. Conralius (edited 07-18-2002).]
Nobunaga0611
07-19-2002, 04:54
Yeah, the free province is whatever one you conquer on your Crusade. As far as there being a dominant muslim invidivual...as long as the game's accurate....there won't be. Theres people of influence, I forget what they're called, but they're basically like the cardinals or bishops in the game for the Christians.
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 04:56
Quote Originally posted by Nobunaga0611:
Yeah, the free province is whatever one you conquer on your Crusade. As far as there being a dominant muslim invidivual...as long as the game's accurate....there won't be. Theres people of influence, I forget what they're called, but they're basically like the cardinals or bishops in the game for the Christians.[/QUOTE]
I believe they are Mullas and Ulamus, or something like that...
Stephen Hummell
07-19-2002, 05:47
Are the Poles Orthodox? Can you ask for a Crusade?
Stephen Hummell
07-19-2002, 05:49
I'm a Ledgendary swordsman.
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 07:59
The Poles are Orthodox. Orthodox Chritians can't call Crusades unfortunately..
[This message has been edited by Emp. Conralius (edited 07-19-2002).]
ThorfinnSkullsplitter
07-19-2002, 08:28
The Poles are orthodox ???Shoulndn't they be catholic ?
[This message has been edited by ThorfinnSkullsplitter (edited 07-19-2002).]
Boleslaw Wrymouth
07-19-2002, 08:49
The Poles are most definately Catholic.
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 10:41
Quote Originally posted by Boleslaw Wrymouth:
The Poles are most definately Catholic.[/QUOTE]
Yes they are...my mistake
[This message has been edited by Emp. Conralius (edited 07-19-2002).]
Aelfred Magna
07-19-2002, 14:50
mmmmm . . . I'm not so sure . . . in the demo's .txt files they're listed under orthodox factions . . . looks like somebody screwed up on that one.
*ducks to avoid the inevitable barrage of invective the Polish fans will throw at CA for that one*
*hopes they fixed it for the full version*
can u go on a crusade against the pope(realises every1 is looking at him) maybe not.
Muslim nations have jihad, "holy war"
Boleslaw Wrymouth
07-19-2002, 20:00
Quote Originally posted by Aelfred Magna:
mmmmm . . . I'm not so sure . . . in the demo's .txt files they're listed under orthodox factions . . . looks like somebody screwed up on that one.[/QUOTE]
Wow...thats just awful. Poland became Catholic in 963AD and during the majority of the time period covered in the game only conquered a few Orthodox areas to the southeast. Poland proper was always Catholic, as were Bohemia and Hungary. The present Pope is Polish for God's sake.
In terms of gameplay, Poland needs to be Catholic in order to survive early on. I would be really shocked if CA made such a fundamental historical error. I mean even if you know absolutely nothing about the country one thing should pop to mind when you hear "Poland" and thats "Catholic".
I also read in some preview that Hungary was orthodox which, at the time, I thought was an amusing typo. Now I'm not so sure. Can anyone with the demo confirm this?
Aelfred Magna
07-19-2002, 20:12
I don't know about the Hungarians . . . but if you look at the list of glorious achievements I posted earlier, you'll see that, unless they've changed things since the demo was released, not only is Poland Catholic, but it gets extra points for SPREADING Catholicism. :P
. . . oops, somebody goofed.
Aelfred Magna
07-19-2002, 20:14
errrrrrrr . . . I meant that they're orthodox, and get extra points for spreading orthodoxy. (sorry, lack of sleep)
Boleslaw Wrymouth
07-19-2002, 20:17
Alfred,
Phew. I can take a lot of historical inaccuracies in my games but man, there's a limit. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Aelfred Magna
07-19-2002, 20:19
yah, well . . . guess we can always hope this one gets fixed before the full version is released
Quote Originally posted by Aelfred Magna:
I don't know about the Hungarians . . . [/QUOTE]
I know, I know ... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Hungary was Catholic as well as Poland.
Seriously, if you guys are so worried about this, why not contact CA directly? They might even thank you for saving them the embarrassment.
------------------
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://www.grahamday.dial.pipex.com/rose-knight1.gif
Is there anything that can be done with a puppet Pope? Can you manipulate other catholics with his influence? Wouldn't it be fun if you could name yourself Pope? I'd be another Innocent or Pious!
Bohemond
07-19-2002, 21:27
Now I remember some screenshots showing the area north of Byzantinum, i.e. the Balkans. There you can see a faction with the Byzantine's banner, only in red instead of purple. Have a look for yourself:
http://www.bluesnews.com/screenshots/games/medieval/20020713tb/MTW_excl05_jpg.shtml
http://www.bluesnews.com/screenshots/games/medieval/20020713tb/MTW_excl07_jpg.shtml
http://www.fourbelowzero.com/games/strategy/MTW/campaign/byzants/images/1087byzant.jpg
This can only be Hungary, or is there any other non-playable faction? Because of the banner, they seem to belong to the Orthodox camp. Maybe CA used Hungary and Poland to balance the number of factions for each religion? (because there are already so many Catholic nations)
Anyway, this is stupid. You don't have to be an expert in european history to know this is superfical and incorrect. I'm only happy that I'm not Polish/Hungarian, because this would really turn me off.
[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 07-19-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 07-19-2002).]
Boleslaw Wrymouth
07-19-2002, 21:44
Quote Originally posted by Gothmog:
Seriously, if you guys are so worried about this, why not contact CA directly? They might even thank you for saving them the embarrassment.[/QUOTE]
I probably will but this isn't really a mistake that you can make if you read ANYTHING on medieval Europe. I suspect Bohemond is right and it was done on purpose for some sort of "balance" b.s..
I personally feel that the Catholic block in the west is too strong so perhaps France should be uhmm...Muslim. It will make the game more balanced and no one should mind, its just a game.
Boleslaw Wrymouth
07-19-2002, 21:57
Bohemund,
I looked at the screenshots and, sigh..., you're right.
My ancestry is half Polish and half English and yes its turning me off. It totally screws up Central Europe.
Quote Originally posted by Bohemond:
Now I remember some screenshots showing the area north of Byzantinum, i.e. the Balkans. There you can see a faction with the Byzantine's banner, only in red instead of purple. Have a look for yourself:
http://www.bluesnews.com/screenshots/games/medieval/20020713tb/MTW_excl05_jpg.shtml
http://www.bluesnews.com/screenshots/games/medieval/20020713tb/MTW_excl07_jpg.shtml
http://www.fourbelowzero.com/games/strategy/MTW/campaign/byzants/images/1087byzant.jpg (http://www.fourbelowzero.com/games/strategy/MTW/campaign/byzants/images/1087byzant.jpg)
This can only be Hungary, or is there any other non-playable faction? Because of the banner, they seem to belong to the Orthodox camp. Maybe CA used Hungary and Poland to balance the number of factions for each religion? (because there are already so many Catholic nations)
Anyway, this is stupid. You don't have to be an expert in european history to know this is superfical and incorrect. I'm only happy that I'm not Polish/Hungarian, because this would really turn me off.
[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 07-19-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 07-19-2002).][/QUOTE]
Yes, Bohemod you are right, this is Hungary. But allow me to correct a few things. First, Hunagry is not part of the Balkans, we consider Hungary as middle Europe http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Second, the banner is not red but some stupid purple. Third, it is not the Byzantine banner. The Byzantine banner has one horizontal and one oblique bar on it, whereas the Hunagrian banner has two horizontal bar on it. I should say that it is almost correct, but it should be red on white background and it should stand on three green hills. Well, this should be the right side of the shield. The left side should be white and red vertical stripes. Never mind ... why should they represent the Hungarian colours correctly? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
[This message has been edited by Cheetah (edited 07-19-2002).]
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 23:10
Quote Originally posted by Rokkaku:
can u go on a crusade against the pope(realises every1 is looking at him) maybe not.
Muslim nations have jihad, "holy war"[/QUOTE]
Not at all. To get a Crusade off the ground, youneed the pope's permission...
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 23:12
Quote Originally posted by Spanktopolis:
Is there anything that can be done with a puppet Pope? Can you manipulate other catholics with his influence? Wouldn't it be fun if you could name yourself Pope? I'd be another Innocent or Pious![/QUOTE]
Once you take over Rome, you can appoint a puppet Pope.
Emp. Conralius
07-20-2002, 01:04
Quote Originally posted by Boleslaw Wrymouth:
The Poles are most definately Catholic.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I was right all along! Look at one of Poland's Glorious Achievements:
POLAND:
Polish Christianization:
"The process of promulgating the Orthodox faith in Poland is also the process of unification, with great political and spiritual benefits for your people. Points are counted on 1204, 1320, and 1453. You must ensure that:
Orthodox Faith level in Poland is greater than 50
Orthodox Faith level in Lithuania is greater than 50
Stephen Hummell
07-20-2002, 01:16
The good thing about a jihad, it picks up troops along the way.
Boleslaw Wrymouth
07-20-2002, 01:49
Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
Ha! I was right all along! Look at one of Poland's Glorious Achievements:
POLAND:
Polish Christianization:
"The process of promulgating the Orthodox faith in Poland is also the process of unification, with great political and spiritual benefits for your people. Points are counted on 1204, 1320, and 1453. You must ensure that:
Orthodox Faith level in Poland is greater than 50
Orthodox Faith level in Lithuania is greater than 50
[/QUOTE]
I was speaking historically and in reality which I expected the game to reflect to at least a BASIC degree. Apparently I was wrong.
Why don't we make the Ottomans Orthodox for game balance purposes?
[This message has been edited by Boleslaw Wrymouth (edited 07-19-2002).]
WAIT A SECOND!!!! second screenie! unit bar, top row, furthest right, if they are cannons, it indicates there are twelve in abattery, than acnt be right!!!
Aelfred Magna
07-20-2002, 03:13
Rok, I think what that means is that it takes 12 men to operate ONE cannon.
Emp. Conralius
07-20-2002, 03:26
Quote Originally posted by Boleslaw Wrymouth:
I was speaking historically and in reality which I expected the game to reflect to at least a BASIC degree. Apparently I was wrong.
Why don't we make the Ottomans Orthodox for game balance purposes?
[This message has been edited by Boleslaw Wrymouth (edited 07-19-2002).][/QUOTE]
don't get rediculous....
Thane Talain MacDonald
07-20-2002, 05:29
The only question I have is if you can steal the popemobile http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Bohemond
07-20-2002, 05:47
Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
Ha! I was right all along! Look at one of Poland's Glorious Achievements:[/QUOTE]
I have edited my message because of Kumas remarks ...
[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 07-20-2002).]
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