Which is your favorite TW game

[Budwise]

Which is your favorite TW game, or is it the game with the expansion. Excuse me for not knowing the names of every single expansion so I will just say all of them for that particular game. Also for clarification, I mean whichever map you can play with the expansion, not just the added ones. If you like the VI version of MTW better because of the new units on the regular campaign map, vote for MTW Expansion.

Expansion names added to poll ~sapi

[YAKOBU]

RTW without the expansion for me even though I'm playing M2TW now. M2TW plays better on my PC. For some reason RTW was always slow with the mouse on the strategy map even after changing computer. Even with that I just love the ancient era more than the medieval.

The good thing about M2TW and MTW is being able to play the English. I was a traitor in RTW and mainly played the Julii or Germania.

:charge:

[Slug For A Butt]

I echo what YAKOBU said.
I much prefer the time period of RTW. I also prefer some of the more diverse units abilities in the game (druids, roman infantry with pila, scythed chariots etc).
Although I am enjoying M2TW very much, the extra graphical OOMPH! factor is still not enough to make me prefer M2TW to RTW.
I never really got to grips with RTW BI because it always seemed a little too inbetween RTW and MTW for my liking. It fell between the two.
STW and MTW campaign map is awful I think. And in STW there is no unit diversity. And the sprite graphics are bloody awful after using the newer battle engine.

GO RTW! I can't wait for R2TW. :inquisitive:

[Noir]

Shouln't this be posted in a place like the entrance hall? It would be better suited there than the Citadel unless its meant for the posters of Citadel.

Many Thanks

Noir

[Slug For A Butt]

Thanks for the on topic input, suppose it's good for post count. ;)
But seriously, I'm sure it will get moved if it is in the wrong place, which I don't think it is.

[Noir]

Apologies - I would gladly be on topic if the poll was not in a specific TW game forum but in a more neutral ground - in fact this is the reason why i mentioned it. It seems somewhat meaningless to me to post such a poll in the Citadel, the Colosseum, the Main Hall or the Sword Dojo - not that it really bothers me - its just sounds strange to ask such a general question a very specific audience - unless i repeat, the point is precisely to see what this audience thinks.

I couldn't care less about my post count.

Many Thanks

Noir

[Basileus]

The first Medieval even though Shogun was where it all started.

[Budwise]

Shouln't this be posted in a place like the entrance hall? It would be better suited there than the Citadel unless its meant for the posters of Citadel.

Many Thanks

Noir

Its because I only really pay attention to THIS AND ONLY THIS message board. I wouldn't check it if it was elsewhere or I would forget, I am sure it will be moved later and that would be fine by me. If its a big concern though for you, just post a link to it on a different message board.

My other reason is that I hear from THIS board that people like this game better or that one better but still play M2TW because of ___.

[Noir]

Originally posted by Budwise
Its because I only really pay attention to THIS AND ONLY THIS message board. I wouldn't check it if it was elsewhere or I would forget, I am sure it will be moved later and that would be fine by me. If its a big concern though for you, just post a link to it on a different message board.

My other reason is that I hear from THIS board that people like this game better or that one better but still play M2TW because of ___.

It isn't a problem at all for me; in fact i anticipated in my initial post (that you quoted) that the poll may be aimed at the posters of the Citadel only - in which case i guess my and anybody else's vote/coontribution outside the Citadel is beside the point (no puns here just stating the facts). I simply made a question and a suggestion - there's no reason to use capitals in your reply, i can read low case just as good - thanks for clearing that up and sorry for going off-topic.

Back on topic:

Many Thanks

Noir

[Ramses II CP]

VI for me. There's definitely something to be said for an unbalanced faction or two to give curveballs to the player. Playing as the Vikings and pillaging your way up and down the islands was excellent, but playing against them with weaker troops and having to eventually drive them back and conquer their homelands was even better.

The trouble with Shogun was cavalry, specifically all heavy cavalry armies worked just fine to wipe out the whole map. The trouble with Rome is I never bought it; it never seemed to come together as a finished product from what I read. The trouble with M2TW is simply the campaign AI (And tactical seige/sally AI). It's horrible. I think I could train only militia spearmen and still conquer the world handily. I waited for 1.2 to buy M2TW, and it still doesn't seem like a very polished product.

[Odin]

VI for me. There's definitely something to be said for an unbalanced faction or two to give curveballs to the player. Playing as the Vikings and pillaging your way up and down the islands was excellent, but playing against them with weaker troops and having to eventually drive them back and conquer their homelands was even better.

The trouble with Shogun was cavalry, specifically all heavy cavalry armies worked just fine to wipe out the whole map. The trouble with Rome is I never bought it; it never seemed to come together as a finished product from what I read. The trouble with M2TW is simply the campaign AI (And tactical seige/sally AI). It's horrible. I think I could train only militia spearmen and still conquer the world handily. I waited for 1.2 to buy M2TW, and it still doesn't seem like a very polished product.

Wow this guy read my mind. I agree with 99% of this with the exception of the malitia spearmen in MTW2. Yeah the Campaign AI sucks in MTW2 amd the "long" or "short" option sucks as well (prefer the periods).

Never got RTW not intrested in the roman period.

STW was simply a great game, I played it to death. Sadly the heavy horse armies and the unstoppable Geisha were short comings but certainly not insurmountable.

[icek]

rtw with exp sets, a game that give me so much fun. i play m2tw now and rome is unistalled long ago but...

[Skott]

My choice is Rome Total War Realism v5.4. The RTWR crew did a smash up job with their series. I stopped at 5.4 and I was still playing it when M2TW came out. I cant wait to see what M2TWR looks like when it gets released. :2thumbsup:

[crpcarrot]

M2 and MTW+exp comes secnd for me. RTW actually put me off TW for a long time the battles were just not fun IMO.

still miss a lot of features from MTW

civil war
re emergences
periods
fatigue and heat affects
religious revolts (did the revolters sometimes join your faction if same religion in MTW?)

just to name a few

[Slug For A Butt]

You still got the periods in M2.
You still get penalised for heat/terrain although admittedly the fatigue doesn't seem to matter AS much.
As for the faction re emerging, I do not miss that one tiny little bit. I found that the single most annoying feature of MTW. . You've got rebels appearing in RTW/M2TW, why do you need faction re emergance?

EDIT: The time period of RTW that I loved was not particularly that of the Romans, it was the Greeks. But I find both infinitely more interesting than the middle ages, and I think RTW did a very good job in showcasing them both. Personal preference.

[Budwise]

As for the faction re emerging, I do not miss that one tiny little bit. I found that the single most annoying feature of MTW. . You've got rebels appearing in RTW/M2TW, why do you need faction re emergance?


I would like to see a faction re-emergence at least once or twice in an entire campaign. Not constantly as in MTW.

[Slug For A Butt]

I think the difference is... why have The French remerging as a faction. Why shouldn't they just reappear as "French" rebels?
I don't want Papal recognition of these rebels because the faction has re emerged. I always felt cheated when I had spent all that hard work getting rid of the buggers in the first place, and then they re appear for no apparent reason.
No, I'm personally glad to see the back of that feature.

[phonicsmonkey]

this one's my favourite

although I really liked RTW SPQR mod as well...go Parthia!

never played MTW or STW

[GrandInquisitor]

It's a toss up, but I'll go with Rome. I prefer the period and diversity of Rome, but MTW2 is a very close second. I played the first Medieval religiously for two years, then switched to Rome. Medieval's map, the aforementioned re-emergence, lack of internal sea trade, and some lame AI 'tactics' just annoyed me to death. No loss for me when those were changed. It was an excellent game, though, and ushered me into the Total War series.

Edit: And the lack of Chinless Wonder REALLY bolstered Rome when I played it.

[Xehh II]

I say RTW because of EB.

[Blood Claw]

I enjoyed the original Shogun and I really enjoyed Rome, though it's expansion was lacking quite a bit but my favorite would have to be M2TW. I just like all of the advancements that have been made, slowly but surely, for the game. Some of those would be the graphics, the units actually looking different, and the little details. I really hope to see more Total War games in the future and I hope that they really take the time to diversify the units, so that each army doesn't have the same units and just to try and make it the best game that they can.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please note: I meant to vote for Medieval 2 but I got too excited.

This has never happened before, honey, I swear!!

[crpcarrot]

You still got the periods in M2.
You still get penalised for heat/terrain although admittedly the fatigue doesn't seem to matter AS much.
As for the faction re emerging, I do not miss that one tiny little bit. I found that the single most annoying feature of MTW. . You've got rebels appearing in RTW/M2TW, why do you need faction re emergance?

EDIT: The time period of RTW that I loved was not particularly that of the Romans, it was the Greeks. But I find both infinitely more interesting than the middle ages, and I think RTW did a very good job in showcasing them both. Personal preference.

you cannot start in late or high

the fact that fatigue and heat penalties rarely ever affect a battle is my point
(if it has no affect on the battle it might as well not be there)

remergences made the game a little bit more unpredictable and would make u have to change your plans which rarely happens in M2. unless of course u prefer a game where everything happens according to plan.

[_Tristan_]

I voted M2TW (mostly for the eye-candy) but would have ranked MTW: VI a close second, the gameplay was just too much

I spent long hours (very long hours...) on STW on release, it being the first ever game to bring back to me the fun of tabletop wargaming without the painstaking effort of figure painting and modeling...

As to RTW, I played a few campaigns but it never got much enthusiasm from me...

[Nellup]

I voted RTW without expansions, because I prefer the time period, and the graphics of M2TW aren't exponentially better than those of RTW (not like the change between MTW and RTW). Also at the moment RTW has better (more complete) mods for it.

I voted without the expansion because BI really didn't do anything for me and I never even bothered to get the Alexander expansion.

[Didz]

The Mongol Invasion expansion for STW, and the Viking Invasion expansion for MTW. Both provide an excellent challenge and the background music is brilliant on both.

[hoetje]

i'm having fun with m2tw now, but i hope the next tw game will be rome 2 : total war ^^

[icek]

and i would like to see a china total war. Shu, Wu, Wei famileis, nanmans and mongols :) oh i love dynasty warriors :2thumbsup:

[hoetje]

yea me too, when i was a starting gamer i loved those action games. I got kessen 2,dynasty warriors 3," " xtreme legends,dynasty warriors 4,dynasty warriors 4 empires and dynasty warriors 5 ^^

[Lacessit]

Isn't that weird? The much maligned RTW and MTW II score the best scores? Ahead of those Glorious Examples Of Gameplay STW and MTW. I can't vote (postcount appears to be too low) but I'd vote for RTW, mainly because that period is my favourite, otherwise, I guess MTWII would get my vote.

[hoetje]

yea, the roman era is my favourite period too,but voted for m2tw,since it's just more fun than rtw^^

[Ars Moriendi]

This poll's results are heavily biased. M2TW is apparently coming out ahead, but that is simply because :

1. The Citadel is strictly M2TW discussion. There's a lot of diehard STW/MTW fans who'll never even see this since they stay mostly in the respective sections of the .org

2. Many more gamers have played M2TW than STW or MTW. This would lead them to vote for M2TW, but that doesn't give any information on their opinion about the relative quality compared to previous TW games, since they never played them.

First issue might be solved by moving this poll in a neutral area (as previously suggested by Noir).
The second issue - I don't know if the poll implementation allows it, but assigning a score for each game you played and a default min/max average for those you didn't will probably offer a more accurate picture of what the members of the .org think about the TW series.

BTW, I voted for M2TW. About the others :

1. I never played STW/MI.

2. I didn't like RTW (lots of reasons, but the most painful was the battles : most were over in ~1 minute, and almost always getting 10-1 or better, it became very boring, very soon).

3. MTW : oh, well, if this poll were posted 1 month ago MTW would've been my choice- it was my first TW game and by God, I was addicted. But I recently started a nostalgia campaign in MTW, and the rose taint quickly washed off my glasses. There were lots of things better in MTW, and I still miss them, but the progress to M2TW is huge. The battles are painful to look at, and it's not just the graphics, it's the unnatural way they moved across the field and the hit and death animations and... lots of other things. The AI isn't much better, just slightly - the biggest difference was the various elements of the battle that really mattered like fatigue, terrain, vegetation, climate etc. - those gave a deeper tactical feeling which I miss, but this is fully compensated by various other things like more realistic physics and missile ballistics, the sieges and so on. The strategy map : the MTW was indeed more competent on the simpler, Risk style map, but I wouldn't go back to that. I like the freedom of movement and the opportunities for ambush and holding passes and bridges in M2.

Hmm, I'd better stop now, this post is already too long, and I could probably go on about this forever.

[DisruptorX]

Isn't that weird? The much maligned RTW and MTW II score the best scores? Ahead of those Glorious Examples Of Gameplay STW and MTW. I can't vote (postcount appears to be too low) but I'd vote for RTW, mainly because that period is my favourite, otherwise, I guess MTWII would get my vote.
Rome was trash in my opinion, but MTW II is brilliant. So I'd vote for it over the original game. I guess people forget that MTW 1 had pretty bad campaign AI as well. The AI never besieged you, and would always retreat from battles unless it was nearly a 1:1 ratio of troops on both sides.

I can't understand why people would enjoy playing Rome, though, true. Unless your idea of a fun game is being violated by armies consisting entirely of overpowered cavalry and chariots.:furious3:

So, anyway, yeah. MTW 2, my favourite game in the series.

[Lacessit]

I can't understand why people would enjoy playing Rome, though

Haha, well, I just love the period, the tactics, the traits, the sounds, the senate, the opposition (wich you can make pretty ok by turtling a bit) ELEPHANTS, the whole shabam really. :yes:

Although I concede that MIITW is probably the better game (I'm having a blast playing it) RTW just inches it as my favourite.

[Didz]

I voted STW/MI though MTW/VI is a close second.

Ignoring the obvious early quality of 'eyecandy' these games set the standards for innovation that CA have failed to match in the more recent titles. The finish quality of these titles was excellent with both music and cut scenes capable of being enjoyed outside gameplay. The Mongol and Viking battle music is awesome and one is not hampered by the slow animated campaign movement that distracts play in the more up to date versions.

Personally, I think CA began to lose the plot with RTW and its really just a matter of seeing how far they allow themselves to slide down the slippery slope. The more recent games are still playable, just, but its getting very close to the wire for me.

[Orb]

Original MTW, by a mile. M2 is a massive improvement from RTW, and I love it so far, but it doesn't seem to have the immediate epic grip of MTW.

[DisruptorX]

Haha, well, I just love the period, the tactics, the traits, the sounds, the senate, the opposition (wich you can make pretty ok by turtling a bit) ELEPHANTS, the whole shabam really. :yes:

Although I concede that MIITW is probably the better game (I'm having a blast playing it) RTW just inches it as my favourite.

The one thing I did enjoy was the seiges, but those are in MTW 2 as well.

Making up new tactics to beat the obnoxious AI was fun, though executing them got tiresome after a while.

My tactic was the phalanx turtle. A complete semi circle of phalanxes around my general, then my armenian cataphracts would shoot the enemy to death.

MP was fun, if, and only if, you were playing against friends (no urban cohort rushes) and made fairly accurate armies. I did have some good times with MP.

[Betito]

It's VI for me. Granted: i never played STW so i wouldn't know about it, but MTW's BATTLE AI was more sensible than M2's. And let's not talk about mutliplayer: it's a big gap, i tell you

Plus, i loved those berserkers, joms vikings, a REAL JHI, and the music!

[KARTLOS]

I say RTW because of EB.

agreed

[Fraekae]

If I have to chose from the original games and expansions, I prefer MTW. Yes, there were many problems and the graphics weren't that great but the battles were without a doubt the toughest and most challenging in the series. I also enjoyed STW immensely. The campaign map was much more interesting to play in RTW, but the battles were a joke.

I actually haven't played M2TW yet:embarassed: because I got totally hooked on Europa Barbarorum. This RTW mod which focuses on realism is an incredible improvement on the original, it's like a totally different game. The unit balance is much better and the battles feel much more realistic thanks to this (fatigue really matters and cavalry doesn't really stand a chance against better phalanxes or spearmen if these are used correctly, just as a few examples). There are also tons of other improvements. I also tried out Rome Total Realism, which was way better than the original but didn't stand a chance against EB IMO. I got BI after playing EB for a while but quit after only about 20 turns going back to EB because I couldn't stand the battles in BI. After that I don't even want to get M2TW before there is some mod that improves unit balance and makes battles more realistic, more like MTW. (Which is actually what I am trying to find on this forum, any hints are appreciated!)

I would really like to see EBs equivalent for M2TW during the latters timeframe, as I really like e.g. to play the crusades on both sides, but have not heard of any such mod yet~:mecry:. I also look forward to EB2, which is EB ported to M2TW (i.e. the same timeframe as EB and RTW), as this will add more factions and should also provide better AI (hopefully). Sadly, it probably won't be released for at least a couple of years as the EB team is still working on EB1.

[Zasz1234]

RTW Definitely. The period is awesome and the leap from MTW to Rome was amazing. My jaw dropped at all the new mechanics which M2 really just aembellished a little bit (It's not really thaaat different). Plus there is much greater diversity in RTW. All the Western factions have the same units until the very end really and in RTW even though the Greek factions had similar units each was different enough to make you want to play them all. I would vote for MTW but the battle maps were just too big, and after going to RTW I could just never go back, it looked too good and the battles were faster paced and more intense.

[Fookison]

M2TW has improvements in the graphic end of things, but the original game was superior for me. I concur with those that indicated the awesome impact RTW had when we first played it. I still find myself going back to it for a good Brutii game now and then......

[Marius Dynamite]

From the original games, BI had the best campaign by far as the Western Roman Empire. Including Mods, it's RTW with RTRPE. I don't like M2:TW but I'm hoping its mods will make it a good game, especially Broken Crescent.

[Shao]

Medieval Total War: Viking Invasion AND with 'XL' mod installed :-)

[Slug For A Butt]

I'm going to shout "R2TW" really loudly and hope that Sega are listening!
I really hope the next game engine goes back to this time period, for me it is still the most diverse period they have covered... Phalanx vs Chariot vs Pila vs HA vs Elephant vs Katank vs Slinger vs HeadHurler backed by Screeching Women... wonderful variety.
Now that I have eventually got the M2TW game that I paid for I will play it to death... then go back to RTW (I still play RTW about 30% of the time now).

EDIT: I am quite surprised that RTW (+ exp) is taking the lions share of the votes in a M2TW forum. Obviously some of that is down to the mods that evolved, but I am still surprised and pleased. :2thumbsup:

[Swoosh So]

Multiplayer: Shgoun totalwar by FAR!

Singleplayer: They all suck vanilla but with the long road mod i believe mtw2 is the best so far.

My favourate era would have to be the roman era by far but the game engine in rome totalwar is so poor and i cant even bring myself to play the well designed mods on it so i hope the next totalwar game is rome2.

[Slug For A Butt]

Swoosh, they don't "all suck" single player vanilla. That's down to personal preference.
Personally, I find online to be fun but in a very different way to single player. It depends what mood I am in.
Gotta say, I love this superiority complex that online playes sometimes eem to have.

[hoetje]

I'm going to shout "R2TW" really loudly and hope that Sega are listening!
I really hope the next game engine goes back to this time period, for me it is still the most diverse period they have covered... Phalanx vs Chariot vs Pila vs HA vs Elephant vs Katank vs Slinger vs HeadHurler backed by Screeching Women... wonderful variety.
Now that I have eventually got the M2TW game that I paid for I will play it to death... then go back to RTW (I still play RTW about 30% of the time now).

EDIT: I am quite surprised that RTW (+ exp) is taking the lions share of the votes in a M2TW forum. Obviously some of that is down to the mods that evolved, but I am still surprised and pleased. :2thumbsup:

Absolutely,the next total war game should be r2tw :)

[Lord Godfrey]

MTW - VI. It fixed most of the bugs in the original MTW. I also enjoyed being able to give out titles to my most loyal generals. I felt more control over the management of my royal court.

[Discoman]

I'm really not sure, I never got to play Shogun or Medieval. RTW was a fun game and all but the Romans were a little too powerful and I'd get annoyed when playing as the Barbs or other factions. Medieval 2 is too easy in comparison as I have already beaten the game more then 5+ times and I even beat the game on VH/VH. If they do make "Rome TW2" I hope it will be a little bit more balanced so that Romans won't win as easily and they won't be 4 seperate factions. If anything I would like to try "Shogun 2TW" which would have most of Asia and would have good potential.

[hoetje]

I don't think that an s2tw will reach a huge market. So, CA would probably want the battlefield to be in Europe,as it is still more popular for the commoner,and thus more florins for CA ^^

[Askthepizzaguy]

I personally would LOVE a game where I could play on a campaign map covering all of Asia and perhaps Europe.

I'd love to play as the Mongols or one of the many Chinese factions, or Japan or India... But with a M2TW style game.

The history of Asia is just as dynamic, interesting, and bloody as Europe. I've never played Shogun, but I think a M2TW style game in Asia would be kick-ash.

Especially if you included Europe, to make the map massive and spanning all of Eurasia, so that you could actually mimic the Mongol conquests.

Medieval 3: Mongol Hordes?

[ForgotMyOldNick]

"View Poll Results: Which is your favorite TW game (Please read first post for clarity this time)"

Uhm I think I voted but not sure...

I voted for RTW.

Barbarian invasion was nice, but... they could have done more with it I reckon.

Actually reinstalling RTW as at the moment! Got a new graphics card to play it with and all!

I'd like to say something about the game though; the 'Modders' really made RTW for me; it was more fun with serious units and I'd like to thank Lusted specifically for such great mods. RTW all the way!

MTWII is very cool graphically but there seems to be game play issues too much for my vote. Why make the overall strategy more complex if it eventuates to too few logical situations? And if they had 7 years to make the game, (err, I read it somewhere), how could it have an iota of a bug? Surely the 5 games previously revealed enough?

[hoetje]

I personally would LOVE a game where I could play on a campaign map covering all of Asia and perhaps Europe.

I'd love to play as the Mongols or one of the many Chinese factions, or Japan or India... But with a M2TW style game.

The history of Asia is just as dynamic, interesting, and bloody as Europe. I've never played Shogun, but I think a M2TW style game in Asia would be kick-ash.

Especially if you included Europe, to make the map massive and spanning all of Eurasia, so that you could actually mimic the Mongol conquests.

Medieval 3: Mongol Hordes?


OK,I could live with that,but then only if Europe is included too.Not that I have anything against asian factions,but as you said,it would be so interesting to unite Europe and Asia under one banner.After all, the difference between both is huge, and the idea of playing as the golden horde is attractive too

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think having all those factions, all that space, plus a better AI, plus tweaks to avoid cheating (I'm talking to you, pizzaguy...) would lead to I don't know...

Battle of the superpowers!

Golden Horde versus the Caliphate versus the English Empire! How about, I don't know....

VARYING DEGREES OF AI COMPETENCE IN EACH GAME SO THAT ONE AI BEATS ANOTHER, BUT NOT IN ANY PREDICTABLE WAY, SO YOU CAN FIGHT EMPIRES AS BIG OR LARGER THAN YOURS, EVEN IF YOU ARE A BLITZER!

That would kick ash!
I am drooling just thinking about it.

CA please hear my plea! Take the existing m2tw engine, overhaul it, keep the same level of graphics, improve and shake up the AI, give us a sprawling map than can accomodate multiple super empires, and make the turns equal 2 per year. Spring and winter.

Oh I wouldn't ever need a girlfriend if you did this, CA. I'd never leave my room.

Give the game even more replay value... make the AI unpredictable with varying levels of strength...

Medieval Three: Mongol hordes. You're sitting on a goldmine with a maxed out merchant, CA....

[hoetje]

now don't become overexcited pizzaguy... You're acting as if CA is already developing medieval 3 : mongol hordes ^^

[Shahed]

Fav: S:TW.
Best (overall game): M2:TW.

[hoetje]

Then what was so great about s:tw? Which factions were playable and how was the campaign map ?

[Shahed]

The atmosphere, balance, setting. ATTENTION TO DETAIL.
Japan. Shimazu, Mori, Takeda, Oda, Imagawa, Hojo, Uesugi, Ronin. Check: www.totalwar.com

I keep changing favs though. I think would be STW, most immersive. However M2 is the overall best game, most detail etc, but it's pure fiction which can be a major annoyance.

The only sad part of all TW games is that there's no Delhaize in any of them.

[Didz]

Each faction had its own unique bonus' for example Takeda had superior cavalry, whilst Imagawa had better spies. Different provinces had bonuses too so that certain provinces automatically produced high honour Monks, or peasants spearmen.

Movement was faster and less fiddly being more akin to chess or risk.

The music and video cut scenes were awesome.

The Rock, Paper, Scissors concept for units in battle actually worked and morale,fatique and the weather really did affect your troops rather than being a pointless waste of code.

[I remember in one MP game actually managing to use a dense fog to move my army right around behind my opponents and then charge into his rear routing his entire army in seconds. Now fog is just a slight mist which has no effect whatsoever.]

Spies, Assassin and Giesha's actually had a role to play in the game rather than being pointless extra's that could be ignored.

Each faction had its own unique problems to overcome due to the location of its provinces on the campaign map, and some were definately more difficult than others so that you could choose the degree of challenge you wanted to face.

Basically, STW did what it said on the packet without any fuss, the Mongol Invasion Expansion merely added to this by offering another unique challenge and some of the most amazing music I've heard in a game. The Mongol charge music used by its horse archers is better than most film scores.

RTW came along and CA seemed to get fixated with making the game pretty instead of playable and in my opinion the whole thing has just started sliding since then.

[Shahed]

Well said. 100%.

[Shieldmaiden]

RTW, for the time period and the fun "feel".

But Shogun will have a place in my heart forever :yes: